Do people believe Kobe's personality is contrived?

Just got finished watching 1st and 10 and they have a football player (not sure what his name is) debating with Skip Bayless... the topic at hand was 'most hated athletes', based off the recent "Q" ratings . The two talked about LeBron, Chad Johnson, T.O etc, but when Kobe's name was mentioned, the football player immediately expressed his dislike for Kobe. "The scowl, the tough guy act, everything seems so contrived and phony it's no wonder he's on that list" (paraphrasing here). Skip pretty much agreed and that was that. After the segment I asked myself, [I]do people really this sh*t[/I]? Did a little a searching and came across these...

[quote]Tuesday, May 12, 2009
Leave the scowl at home, Kobe
By Tim Keown
Page 2

The strangest moment of the NBA playoffs took place during Game 3 of the Lakers-Rockets series, when Kobe Bryant hit an 18-foot turnaround jumper from the left elbow with Shane Battier's right hand in his face. Bryant immediately began shaking his head with a look that indicated he smelled something really bad. This -- as you know -- is Kobe's dismissive face, the one he now makes after nearly every basket.

But that wasn't the strange part -- after all, how can something be strange when it happens anywhere from 10 to 25 times a game? The strange part came afterward, when he started back downcourt and turned to the TNT broadcasters at center court and yelled toward commentator Doug Collins.
Kobe Bryant
We get it Kobe, no one can guard you. Now keep quiet and play the game.

"He can't guard me," Bryant said. Shaking his head, his mouth curled downward in a semicircle of disgust, he stared down Collins and said it again, "He can't guard me."

There was a pause on the broadcast. OK, that was meant for us, you could almost hear them thinking. So ... what do we say now? They couldn't ignore it, because it was clear to everyone watching that they were taken aback and that Kobe was the reason. Kevin Harlan acknowledged that Kobe was targeting Collins, one of the most even and knowledgeable minds in the game. When Harlan asked his partner what it was all about, Collins sounded genuinely perplexed. "I'm not sure," he said, and they quickly and quietly moved on.

And that's the deal about Kobe: None of us is sure. How can a guy with that much talent play with such little joy? Why does he feel he has to put on that phony tough-guy show all the time? Underneath all that pre-fab armor, who is he? Does he even know?

It's sad, maybe, but Kobe will never be appreciated in a manner commensurate with his ability. He's in the process of turning himself into an antihero. (In many respects, he is similar to Alex Rodriguez, another tin-eared superstar.) Everything he does reeks of insecurity, which is a really weird trait for a guy who -- along with LeBron James -- is a once-a-decade basketball talent.

Unlike LeBron, though, Kobe can't let his game speak for him. He has to accentuate everything with the facial expressions and the dismissiveness. It's not enough for him to beat someone; he feels compelled to belittle that person in the process. That's why one of the best things about the Lakers-Rockets series -- and, really, it's turning into a 700-page novel -- has been Shane Battier's reaction to Kobe's antics. And that reaction is this: zero. None. He acts as though he can't hear or see any of it.

Hey, Kobe, we know you're great. You know you're great. Shane Battier knows you're great. How about letting someone else say it first every once in a while? The way it works now, you're telling us so often that we're getting tired of it. Let us be the judge of whether someone can or cannot guard you. It's pretty self-explanatory, to Doug Collins and everybody else.

You see, I want to be able to enjoy Kobe's talent. I want to see it the way I see LeBron's: transcendent, mostly pure and emanating outward. It probably will never happen, though. Kobe won't let it.

For a guy with such a constant flow of creativity running through his game, it's amazing to see how calculated he is about his image. He comes across as though he's reading a script, and he's all wrong for the part (maybe Alan Alda reading a part meant for Harvey Keitel). There are just too many false notes, and the worst part is, he actually seems to believe this is what people want from him. This is the persona he has cultivated, and he's going with it no matter what. It's really kind of sad.

And this is where Kobe veers from the arrogant antihero routine perfected by someone such as Barry Bonds. Bonds didn't care what you thought about him. He thrived off the anger he generated. But this preening, jaw-jutting, head-shaking character is what Kobe believes people want.

Maybe it's his attempt to answer the questions of the Lakers' toughness. I don't know, but in the playoffs, his performances generally follow one of two themes: (1) He takes over the game and taunts everybody in sight, demanding that all acknowledge his greatness or (2) he steps back and intentionally doesn't take over a game, in which case his attitude seems to be, "See what they look like without me?" Either way, it's a tough act to embrace.

In the wake of Sunday's Game 4 disaster, when Battier and Ron Artest did guard Kobe -- and after which Magic Johnson said the Lakers defiled the team's honor -- it's a good bet Kobe will be at his contrived best in Tuesday night's Game 5. He'll probably dominate, and he'll undoubtedly let us know.

But here's a radical idea: Stop with the smugness and the arrogance. Play your game and let your talent speak for itself. You might not know this, but it does a much better job than you do. And if you're not going to enjoy what you bring to the court, at least give us half a chance.[/quote]

[quote=Bill Simmons]You get the idea. We learn nothing from today's superstars beyond the spin. Take Spike Lee's upcoming Kobe Doin' Work, which could be headed for an Oscar next year -- not for best documentary but for best actor. Blanketed by 30 cameras covering his every move during a 2008 game, Kobe tries to be funny, supportive, helpful, charming

No question about it.

It seems almost silly at times.

Its not even a case of "is Kobe trying too hard?", because he IS trying too hard, and only a noob wouldn't see this.

Hell.... even KPAH (Alphawolf) has mentioned this numerous times, and he's the no.1 Kobe stan on the planet!!

I think this is part of why many people dislike him and Bron is following his footsteps.

But to be fair to Kobe.... this is the norm in this generation.

If Kobe find motivation in a contrived way and feeds off it, it sure works so far.

Well, I do find it funny that his family is just about always waiting for him in the back hall way. You know, just as the cameras are ready to go to commercial.

I think every athlete has to try and manage their image somewhat.

As for the scowl, what I didn't understand is why he only seemed to start that in the Orlando series. It did seem like something he timed.

Most of it is. Like when Chris Rock was talking to him and he was trying so hard just staring at nothing.

yeah, its clearly a contrived image. especially the mean mugging and all that shit

What is kobe supposed to do after hitting a tough shot? Start laughing and giggling and shit? Of course he's got the 'scowl' on. Thats just pure concentration and energy. Dude plays to win and feeds off competition. These espn guys are just all p[B]u[/B]ssies that can't hang with that type killer instinct and drive. They have none of it themselves so they assume its just an act.

If all players were emotionless robots, the game would be boring.

The fact that this needs to be discussed is pathetic, like a bunch of gossiping little *******.

[QUOTE=tpols]What is kobe supposed to do after hitting a tough shot? Start laughing and giggling and shit? Of course he's got the 'scowl' on. Thats just pure concentration and energy. Dude plays to win and feeds off competition. These espn guys are just all p[B]u[/B]ssies that can't hang with that type killer instinct and drive. They have none of it themselves so they assume its just an act.[/QUOTE]

That's why they bag on Jordan all the time. Oh, wait...

[QUOTE=tpols]What is kobe supposed to do after hitting a tough shot? Start laughing and giggling and shit? Of course he's got the 'scowl' on. Thats just pure concentration and energy. Dude plays to win and feeds off competition. These espn guys are just all p[B]u[/B]ssies that can't hang with that type killer instinct and drive. They have none of it themselves so they assume its just an act.[/QUOTE]
:roll:

Where's the white text?

I dont fault him for the scowl, maybe he was just trying to start something new instead of Jordan's shrug or whoever started the chest beating thing.

[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]That's why the bag on Jordan all the time. Oh, wait...[/QUOTE]
Jordan was actually a bigger asshole than kobe. Dude trash talked like no other and always had a mean ass look on his face. But of course its not contrived for him.

[QUOTE=Connoisseur]If all players were emotionless robots, the game would be boring.

The fact that this needs to be discussed is pathetic, like a bunch of gossiping little *******.[/QUOTE]

You can be express emotions without being contrived. Stop being a dumbass. Those two are actually the inverse of each other. It's impossible TO convey true emotions when they are all contrived.

[QUOTE=tpols]What is kobe supposed to do after hitting a tough shot? Start laughing and giggling and shit? Of course he's got the 'scowl' on. Thats just pure concentration and energy. Dude plays to win and feeds off competition. These espn guys are just all p[B]u[/B]ssies that can't hang with that type killer instinct and drive. They have none of it themselves so they assume its just an act.[/QUOTE]
which is why he always did this right? Cause its a natural emotional reaction right? Uh no, its obviously contrived (as was his tongue shit earlier in his career).

also, why are you people acting like the choice is contrived, forced emotion or no emotion?

Yeah, I do think it's contrived. That along with just being such a prick for so long is what makes him impossible to root for IMO. Which is actually a shame, because the guy has mega talent and has done some things on the court that are really incredible. As a lover of basketball, he's made me rewind a play or two because if you really love the sport it's just not possible to never appreciate anything he does. That said, the force of his personality overshadows his greatness 99% of the time for me. And that's saying a lot.

I just think that he really doesn't have a personality, and so he's latched on to what he thinks he "should" be. Whether it was the Michael Jordan mimicry, or calling himself a "Thug Poet" even though he grew up in Italy and then a well of suburb of Philadelphia. It would be like Carlton Banks throwing up gang signs. It's like come on man. Now he's going with the whole "intense scowl when I make a big play" phase, which may be more annoying and fake then any of his other phases.

I'd actually have more sympathy for him if he wasn't such a jerk. It couldn't have been easy to grow up in Italy, in a completely different culture, and then come back to the US and feel like you have to conform to a culture that you really didn't experience until later in life. I'm sure a lot of this phoniness comes with trying to fit in with "urban" basketball culture/life though he didn't grow up in it.

Neverthless, it doesn't excuse his primadonna attitude, and generally unpleasant nature. I don't buy his fake tough guy looks, I don't buy his "comraderie" with his teammates, I don't buy any time he attempts to be gracious, everything (except his talent) about him comes across as false.

That article seems to be talking more about showboating than a contrived personality. I don't think he showboats excessively (compared to other star players that is) but his personality does seem quite contrived. He's always been socially awkward and over the years he has manufactured his personality (again, more so than the average star).

Knoe : Kobe won't ever win without Shaq

Two years later: I didn't know they would have gotten Gasol :(

Anything dude says is a joke. Didn't even read his essay.

Guys kobe has been known to be a competitive dick his whole life. He was taking the end of the game shots for the lakers when he was still a teenager. He had the ego to try and take over a team as the main man that had a top 7 goat on it. Kobe has always been a douchebag. This is NOT a contrived or fake image. He's just simply too competitive.

[QUOTE=PowerGlove]Most of it is. Like when Chris Rock was talking to him and he was trying so hard just staring at nothing.[/QUOTE]


its called being focused during the NBA finals............ kinda a big deal doesnt need some sorry ass comedian fuggin with him during an important game find another example bc thts not a good one....:facepalm

I think the difference between MJ and he is that he makes a point or he tries to do certain things, that coincidentally..... MJ did before him. With MJ, it never felt contrived, all done at the spurt of the moment.

From the fist pump, the "he can't guard me? (in regards to Gerald Wilkins), etc.etc. they felt real at that time.

Something I've always stated about Kobe and his game is, it feels calculated (which isn't necessarily a bad thing btw).

The irony is, that he mentions how he doesn't want to be the next Mike, but the first Kobe.... yet everything he does and says = the opposite.

And I kinda feel bad for him, because its clear that he wants to earn the same respect, so he tries to do the same things that MJ did. He wants to have his moments, he wants to be hailed (which I don't fault him).

But instead, it comes off as the son wearing his dad's shoes and shirt.

[IMG]http://www.clipartguide.com/_named_clipart_images/0060-0808-2016-1919_Small_Boy_Dressed_Up_in_His_Dads_Hat_and_Tie_clipart_image.jpg[/IMG]

it's called competition. We all have made ugly faces or basketball faces when the game is competitive.

[QUOTE=tpols]Guys kobe has been known to be a competitive dick his whole life. He was taking the end of the game shots for the lakers when he was still a teenager. He had the ego to try and take over a team as the main man that had a top 7 goat on it. Kobe has always been a douchebag. This is NOT a contrived or fake image. He's just simply too competitive.[/QUOTE]

Being a "thug poet" from the suburbs of Philly isn't contrived? The Michael Jordan wannabe persona wasn't contrived? Where was the scowl thing earlier in his career? Kobe, a tough guy? :oldlol: CONTRIVED.

None of this has anything to do with being competitive. Magic was competitive Bird was competitive. Wade is competitive. And on and on. All the greats are competitive, yet you don't get the same charges of being contrived for them as you do for Bryant.

[QUOTE=andgar923]I think the difference between MJ and he is that he makes a point or he tries to do certain things, that coincidentally..... MJ did before him. With MJ, it never felt contrived, all done at the spurt of the moment.

From the fist pump, the "he can't guard me? (in regards to Gerald Wilkins), etc.etc. they felt real at that time.

Something I've always stated about Kobe and his game is, it feels calculated (which isn't necessarily a bad thing btw).

The irony is, that he mentions how he doesn't want to be the next Mike, but the first Kobe.... yet everything he does and says = the opposite.

And I kinda feel bad for him, because its clear that he wants to earn the same respect, so he tries to do the same things that MJ did. He wants to have his moments, he wants to be hailed (which I don't fault him).

But instead, it comes off as the son wearing his dad's shoes and shirt.

[/QUOTE]

This is a good description of it as well.

[QUOTE=mayo'sgrizz]its called being focused during the NBA finals............ kinda a big deal doesnt need some sorry ass comedian fuggin with him during an important game find another example bc thts not a good one....:facepalm[/QUOTE]


Focused on what? Dude had his mouth wide open and just stared at nothing.:oldlol:

I think he has always had a personality or identity crisis ever since he was a kid.

Loners tend to want to try to get attention and love but do it without looking like they're seeking for that.

[QUOTE=PowerGlove]Focused on what? Dude had his mouth wide open and just stared at nothing.:oldlol:[/QUOTE]
According to you he was focused on nothing cause he had a blank stare,
but he was super focused on trying to ignore Chris Rock? :confusedshrug:

well, watch Kobe get stripped or lose the ball ....hell flail his arm, punch the air .. scream at the ref ,more often than any player w/o getting a tech most of the time.

Its not big deal to me, it doent make me dislike him or anything .. but he is one of the biggest babies when it comes to making mistake on offense. its just pretty clear to see...and I can see how it can rub people the wrong way.

[QUOTE=B-Easy]well, watch Kobe get stripped or lose the ball ....hell flail his arm, punch the air .. scream at the ref w/o getting a tech most of the time...
Its not big deal to me, it doent make me dislike him or anything .. but he is one of the biggest babies when it comes to making mistake on offense. its just pretty clear to see.[/QUOTE]

I flail my arms on the court too. It's not being a baby about it, I do it because I can get away with smacking people in the face that I don't like.

[QUOTE=AK47DR91]I think he has always had a personality or identity crisis ever since he was a kid.

Loners tend to want to try to get attention and love but do it without looking like they're seeking for that.[/QUOTE]


C/S

We have to understand Kobe the 'person', and it becomes obvious.

Kobe is a natural bad ass on the court, which is what made the 'scowl' so annoying. He doesn't need it. His overall on-court persona is VISUALLY intense/determined enough as it is because of his uber competitiveness.

Outside of that, his personality is very much contrived. The whole obsession with MJ and the unbelievably fake interviews where he tries to be 'one of the guys' - people can see right through it.

[QUOTE=B-Easy][B]well, watch Kobe get stripped or lose the ball ....hell flail his arm, punch the air .. scream at the ref .. more often than any player.[/B]

Its not big deal to me, it doent make me dislike him or anything .. but he is one of the biggest babies when it comes to making mistake on offense. its just pretty clear to see...and I can see how it can rub people the wrong way.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and that goes along with his whole narcissistic, entitled persona. Every player complains, and every player can be ridiculous with whining to refs, even "nice guy" Tim Duncan (especially nice guy Tim Duncan, and I love him lol). Kobe just takes it to a really obnoxious level. The fact that he doesn't get techs half of the time he deserves them just finishes it off.

He's toned down the MJ imitations A LOT in recent years....I really see no reason for the continued hate :confusedshrug:

Look over there! It's Lebron! GET HIM!!!

[IMG]http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Others/angry-mob-143.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]The fact that he doesn't get techs half of the time he deserves them just finishes it off.[/QUOTE]He was 4th in technical fouls last year with 14, trailing Sheed who was first (17 techs) by only 3. So you think he should have had 28 tech? GTFO!

He likes being the villain

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Kobe is a natural bad ass on the court, which is what made the 'scowl' so annoying. He doesn't need it. His overall on-court persona is intense/determined enough as it is because of his competitiveness.

Outside of that, his personality is very much contrived. The whole obsession with MJ and the unbelievably fake interviews where he tries to be 'one of the guys' - people can see right through it.[/QUOTE]

I think part of it is him trying to debunk misconceptions, and he might go a bit overboard. Some of it is him trying to shoot back at his critics, so he dramatizes certain things for emphasis.

I honestly feel bad for him, because no matter what he does or says, he won't satisfy everybody. But that's part of the problem with him as well.

Its good that he uses that as motivation, but dude.... don't over do it, it reeks insecurity at times.

A perfect example of this, is Kobe not shooting in certain games after being criticized by Phil. Its like he goes overboard with shit, like nobody told you NOT too shoot, just don't force the shots and pass it now and then. Instead he makes it a point to emphasize things.

If people want to compare him to MJ then here we go... MJ wouldn't have cared nor listened to Phil, and he would've kept shooting.

As MJ reportedly said after a game vs the Spurs.... "I'm the coach on the floor", after he disobeyed Phil's instructions but the Bulls got the W.

MJ cares more about winning, and that's all the matters to him.

Kobe would rather lose and make his point.

Not the Player. You can tell when he steps on the court, hes just focused on winning, he's not dancing taking pics or thinking what he's gonna do next or what hand shake he's gonna use.

But outside the court, looks like he's trying too hard that it comes off as fake.


BTW that article was so bias.

600 pst :applause:

[QUOTE=Indian guy]Kobe is a natural bad ass on the court, which is what made the 'scowl' so annoying. He doesn't need it. His overall on-court persona is VISUALLY intense/determined enough as it is because of his uber competitiveness.

Outside of that, his personality is very much contrived. The whole obsession with MJ and the unbelievably fake interviews where he tries to be 'one of the guys' - people can see right through it.[/QUOTE]

And worse of all.... it looks silly and un-intimidating.

Like you mentioned, his game is more intimidating than any of his silly scowls.

Remind me of Leo De Caprio trying to act tough.

[QUOTE=Phong]He was 4th in technical fouls last year with 14, trailing Sheed who was first (17 techs) by only 3. So you think he should have had 28 tech? GTFO![/QUOTE]

First of all, I'm hardly the only person to point out Kobe's constant whining. It's pretty clear as day. Secondly, if they called ALL the techs they should on him, then yes he should have considerably more.

Serious question, because I honestly can't get my mind around how some Kobe fans think. I'm a big fan of Wade. However, if he did all the obnoxious shyt Kobe did on the court and got away with it, I'd admit that he should be T'd up more.

Do you guys just not see anything he does? do you like put up a mental shield that doesn't allow you to EVER admit anything about him? I'm honestly curious because many other people notice his whining and theatrics that would get most players t'd up, but you don't. So we're just making it all up because we "hate" him, and he doesn't really do those things or what?

i think whats great is, at this point i doubt kobe gives a f*ck.

and honestly neither do i.

5 rings. thats all.

[QUOTE=andgar923][B]And worse of all.... it looks silly and un-intimidating.[/B]

Like you mentioned, his game is more intimidating than any of his silly scowls.

Remind me of Leo De Caprio trying to act tough.[/QUOTE]

That's the main thing. It would be one thing if it at least looked kind of cool or something, but not only does it come across as completely contrived, but he just looks stupid. Not tough. Not intense. Not competitive. Like a 12 yr old imitating what he thinks looks tough.

[QUOTE=Knoe Itawl]First of all, I'm hardly the only person to point out Kobe's constant whining. It's pretty clear as day. Secondly, if they called ALL the techs they should on him, then yes he should have considerably more.

Serious question, because I honestly can't get my mind around how some Kobe fans think. I'm a big fan of Wade. However, if he did all the obnoxious shyt Kobe did on the court and got away with it, I'd admit that he should be T'd up more.

Do you guys just not see anything he does? do you like put up a mental shield that doesn't allow you to EVER admit anything about him? I'm honestly curious because many other people notice his whining and theatrics that would get most players t'd up, but you don't. So we're just making it all up because we "hate" him, and he doesn't really do those things or what?[/QUOTE]

I've never seen a player of Kobe's caliber cry, whine and complain as much as he does... PERIOD.

YES.... every player and great player does it, but I guess he wants to be the GOAT at that as well.