The secret to gaining VERTICAL

You need these 3 to reach your maximum vertical. Keep in mind that too much of each three can kill your vertical you need the right amount depending on your body index.

leg strength (squats and other leg weightlifting exercises)

Plyrometrics (stretching the leg muscles, teaching jumping muscle memory, and developing your fast twitch muscles)

Upper body weight ( Benching, and other weight lifting techniques)


Im gonna start with the most important one to me because i know most people dont even consider this when there thinking vertical, UPPER BODY WEIGHT. This is pretty much the secret for vertical training. If you have the right leg strength and have completed plyometrics training and you have no upperbody weight, then your body has no weight for your legs to propell it vertically, and you have actually voided your plyometrics and leg weight training at the same time. Think about this, if your throwing a baseball vertically in the air vs a wiffle ball (one that has no holes in it). Which one could you throw further vertically? The baseball because it has the right weight to power ratio for your arm. The wiffle ball is to light and cant propell be propelled upwards as far as a baseball will. In this case your legs would be the arm and your upperbody is the object being thrown.

Look at how big nate robinsons upper body is
[IMG]http://heathoops.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Nate-Robinson.jpg[/IMG]

Look at dwight howard, he has more upperbody mass than in his legs.
[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0903/nba.shaq.speaks.his.mind/images/shaq-dwight-howard.jpg[/IMG]

Look at a frog, the best leapers in the world. If they didnt have the body weight for there legs to propel itself upward do you think it could jump as high as it does? Because of the legnth of there legs they dont need to much body weight but it is still crucial.
[URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/88413712@N00/293941917/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/88413712@N00/293941917/[/URL]

But, putting to much excessive upperbody weight compared to your height will start killing your vertical. You want to find the right amount of weight to put on. Going back to the baseball example to prove why putting to much weight will kill your vertical. Throwing a baseball vs a baseball that weighs 5 pounds. Which one could you throw further into the air? Again you need to find the best upper bodyweight to leg strength ratio.


If you were to start your body from scratch, you should put on upper body weight first. Your legs will stregnthen normally because it will break down and build the right amount of muscle to carry your new upper body weight.
Once you finish putting on upperbody weight you should start your leg weight training. Again you want to gain the right stregnth and leg weight and not to much because extra muscle that is not needed will just weigh you down.
Once you finished your weight and mass training, its time to do plyometrics
This might be the hardest part of gaining vertical is plyrometrics. Plyro are exercises designed to teach your legs jumping muscle memory and developing twitch muscles. Doing plyro will teach and develop your legs to jump with your body.

The whole of this is jibberish.

I disagree. The most important thing you need from your upperbody as a basketball player is your core and shoulders. Having a big chest actually limits your movement and being too strong doesn't give you a comfortable feel on an outside shot.

Most basketball players do resistance based training. It's not simply weight lifting with legs. Of course they hit the gym but you're not building a football player or a body builder. Basketball requires agility,conditioning, and vertical leap.

It may seem like some players are really built but it's actually because they have an extremely low body fat percentage.

[img]http://www.europaplus.tv/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Derrick-Rose.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.fiba.com/images/web/Events/10/FWCM/headshots/USA/_215/Usa-Russell_WESTBROOK_7.jpg[/img]

Proof that upper body weight has next to nothing to do with vertical. There are certain upper body lifts that can help, but when it comes to vertical, you want to have the best strength to to weight ratio you can possibly have. 300 pound guy squatting 600 < 160 pound guy squatting 400

I get what you mean... but it's not weight, it's strength, and it only applies to certain areas that are useful for vertical (mainly your core). If all you did was Yoga and Plyos... you'd be a very gifted leaper. Probably a 1 leg leaper, but a leaper. the guys you are showing are great 2 leg leapers and that's because they have more upper body weight and have trained their body to be more strength based through squats and other weight lifting exercises (and possibly other things as well such as Nate being a football player where 2 foot jumping is pretty much the only way you are going to jump in football.)

As for your argument about upper body weight on first... I don't agree with that. If you're goal is to be a great leaper, then you aren't looking to put on much upper body weight... I mean I honestly wouldn't do a thing for upper body beside core work and olympic lifts(which is lower body but includes some upper body)... that's it... and whatever upper body weight I put on would come only from that and other lower body lifts that put on a little weight up top naturally (mostly in core, other areas of the back, and a little on arms/shoulders from gripping bars).

Most people's goals aren't solely to be a great leaper tho. Dwight is a big and having some extra weight up top (all muscle) benefits him on the block. He would jump even higher if he lost some of that upper body weight tho. He is listed as 265 and he's not even 6'10 without shoes. Kevin Durant is about as tall and get's just as high as Dwight off one leg (or damn close) and he's about 200 pounds. The real question is like I said earlier tho is... what kind of leaper do you want to be? What kind of athlete do you want to be? To do you want fly down the court and leap off 1 leg like KD and Lebron? Or do you want more power and the ability to snag boards and dunk from a standstill? That's really the real question.

This might be the dumbest post ever. Lifting weights does not make you more athletic or jump higher. The OP was very selective with his examples; Shaquille and Dwight Howard. How about guys like Vince, Michael Jordan, Julius Erving, Bill Russell, James White, Russell Westbrook, etc. Michael Wilson of the Harlem Globetrotters posted a 51.5 vertical at Memphis. He looks like a noodle. Look at volleyball players and Olympic high jumpers. How many of them look like a bodybuilder? How many great basketball players throughout history look like a bodybuilder or football player?

The secret to leaping and running fast is not weight lifting or having a big upper body. It is speed-strength, AKA how quickly your muscles can exert force, relax, and exert force again. It takes .8 sec for a muscle to reach peak force lifting a weight. When you sprint or do a reactive jump, your feet only contact the ground for .2-.4 seconds. What does this tell us? Sports are not about slow, maximal force movements. They are about ultra fast sub-maximal force movements. This is explained in detail in world renown exercise physiologist Mel Siff's book, s"Supertraining." In the future, please do not refer to weight lifting and plyometrics as a "secret," as it is the most commonly used method of athletic training on earth, despite being imperfect.

This is all so confusing. Everyone is disagreeing with everyone else, so does upper body weight actually matter or not?

While the first part of what you are saying is true, the part about legs is not. If your upper body is large then you will need powerful legs to compensate for the weight you are trying to carry upwards. You showed pictures of the guys lower legs, most of your jumping comes from the quads, hams and butt which are covered by shorts in your pics. Smaller boned people will always have a smaller looking lower leg because the ankle is skinny .

Have you also noticed how long frog legs are compared to their overall size? This is the probably the dumbest post I've seen in a while

[QUOTE=z14h]This is all so confusing. Everyone is disagreeing with everyone else, so does upper body weight actually matter or not?[/QUOTE]
WEIGHT does not matter, having upper body strength will always benefit though. If you have way to much weight up top and not enough weight down low, you will be lop sided therefore hindering your vertical.

[IMG]http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/275762-1/Shannon+Brown+with+Demar+DeRozan+Gerald+Wallace+and+Nate+Robinson+the+contestants+of+the+2010+NBA+Dunk+contest.JPG[/IMG]

Upper body weight? doesn't matter, upper body STRENGTH? matters a good amount.


One thing thats important and that is often overlooked in jumping high is a strong frame. If you have weaknesses in your body then you will not be jumping as high because the transfer of energy is being interfered with. Work out your core, back, shoulders, chest and you will see increases in vertical. Squats and deadlifts are great for increasing your vertical. Do 5 x 5 squats with max weight every other day and youll see increases in your vert in 2 weeks.

[QUOTE=MMKM]This might be the dumbest post ever. [B]Lifting weights does not make you more athletic or jump higher. [/B] The OP was very selective with his examples; Shaquille and Dwight Howard. How about guys like Vince, Michael Jordan, Julius Erving, Bill Russell, James White, Russell Westbrook, etc. Michael Wilson of the Harlem Globetrotters posted a 51.5 vertical at Memphis. He looks like a noodle. Look at volleyball players and Olympic high jumpers. How many of them look like a bodybuilder? How many great basketball players throughout history look like a bodybuilder or football player?

The secret to leaping and running fast is not weight lifting or having a big upper body. It is speed-strength, AKA how quickly your muscles can exert force, relax, and exert force again. It takes .8 sec for a muscle to reach peak force lifting a weight. When you sprint or do a reactive jump, your feet only contact the ground for .2-.4 seconds. What does this tell us? Sports are not about slow, maximal force movements. They are about ultra fast sub-maximal force movements. This is explained in detail in world renown exercise physiologist Mel Siff's book, s"Supertraining." In the future, please do not refer to weight lifting and plyometrics as a "secret," as it is the most commonly used method of athletic training on earth, despite being imperfect.[/QUOTE]

WTF are you on? Performing certain lifts and movements can absolutely make you a higher jumper and a better athlete.

^^^ Indeed. Lifting weights using those principles he said can help a great deal.

^yeah.. I gained 9 inches in vertical due to weight training(6 months). The secret is to keep on improving(to improve you have to do more so yeah makes sense)

huge calves

I used to tie pork shops on my calves. I swear it worked.

[QUOTE=Ass Dan]huge calves[/QUOTE]

Besides the fact that calves have next to nothing do with vertical, it's been proven that thinner calves are actually better for vertical (for what it's worth). Try another attempt at being funny.

having a good balance of upperbody, core and lower body strength is what is most important

having 2 without the other one will only limit your max potential

I added an entire foot to my max jump in the last 2 months and I'm 28 yrs old. Dunking is easier than layups for me now.

If you want to know how i did it Watch Michael Jordans video on YouTube about increasing jump. It sounds like a total non answer at first but if you listen carefully, hes absolutely right. I threw my jumpsoles in the can and quit squat and calf exercises altogether because it's all junk.

Focusing on your calves is retarded because no one knows all the body parts involved in a single jump. You may even be hurting your jump by overfocusing on calves.

The best Way for YOU to dunk is to do what's best for YOUR body type, not Nate robinsons. You have different strengths and weaknesses than he does, some things are longer shorter heavier lighter on your frame. There is no blueprint for YOUR body, you have to figure out what propels you the highest, through trial and error and continue to jump like that until it's muscle memory.

[QUOTE=Big164]I added an entire foot to my max jump in the last 2 months and I'm 28 yrs old. Dunking is easier than layups for me now.

If you want to know how i did it Watch Michael Jordans video on YouTube about increasing jump. It sounds like a total non answer at first but if you listen carefully, hes absolutely right. I threw my jumpsoles in the can and quit squat and calf exercises altogether because it's all junk.

Focusing on your calves is retarded because no one knows all the body parts involved in a single jump. You may even be hurting your jump by overfocusing on calves.

The best Way for YOU to dunk is to do what's best for YOUR body type, not Nate robinsons. You have different strengths and weaknesses than he does, some things are longer shorter heavier lighter on your frame. There is no blueprint for YOUR body, you have to figure out what propels you the highest, through trial and error and continue to jump like that until it's muscle memory.[/QUOTE]


This.
I trialled so many different exercises and workouts from all over the net until I created my own workouts from a mix of everything. I change my lower body workouts every week, to keep it interesting and keep the body guessing.
Squats (I haven't done any ridiculously heavy ones), power cleans, snatches (including single arm snatch, one of my fav), bulgarian split squat, single leg box explosions, romanian deadlifts, tire flips, and med ball throws have been my major exercises mixed into my workouts, along with one of the best things for improving your jump - jumping. Combining reasonable weight training regime with box jumps and various jumping practices have helped this 6'3 215lb Aussie go from barely touching the rim, to comfortably dunking in a few months. You've got to be patient improving your vertical, there's no quick solution. What works for me won't definitely work for you (like Big164 said). Try new things and see what gives you the best results, and THEN, still keep mixing some aspects of your training up.
I recommend looking up Joe DeFranco's workouts on youtube. He trains NFL draft prospects, and has got guys jumping ridiculous heights through his intense training methods.

the dude that wrote thisa rticle shud share with scientists

Spud Webb.

look at the best vertical jumpers in the world... the olympic high jumpers..... none of them have hulk upper body... infact they want to be as light-skinny-ripped as possible.... a human at any weight is more than enough to be propelled thru the gravity at any rate.... the less weight = the more vertical.... so much upperbody weight will only actually make it harder/impossible to get as high up as you could with LESS weight....

there is no SECRET....

its all about:

1. genetics (fast twitch ligaments)
2. plyometrics/jumping & jumping & jumping & jumping & jumping (trying to enhance those fast twitch ligaments)

doing weights WONT HELP YOU... im sorry... unless you can find some weight that can make your ligaments bigger.... :lol

notice i said LIGAMENTS... not MUSCLES.... getting stronger/more muscles wont help you.... its only a fantasy...

EVERYBODY knows this..... but they try so desperately to not lose hope of their dreams......... and try to imagine there is some "secret" way of getting higher vertical....

[B]Look.... you can only workout to your genetical potential to bring out as much vertical as you GENETICALLY can... and that workout is simple... Running / Plyometrics (Jumping)...[/B]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVZ3ZcorTF0&feature=player_embedded[/url]
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhF1c4InaMo&feature=related[/url]




"[I]Holm’s Achilles-Tendon is very hard, like 4 times harder than an average-man’s tendon.
you have to put up 1,4 tons to stretch his achilles-tendon 1cm.
this is the key to his success.
Because: the higher the force which is needed to Stretch the tendon, the higher the opposing force, which is produced.
with his jump technique (fast run-up, strong take-off) he is using his biggest advantage: His Achilles-tendon[/I]"

all about genetics / fast twitch ligaments/tendons my friends.... not muscles/strength...

Pauk while I agree with your respect for Lebron in other threads, you're wrong here. Weight training does increase the force at which your body can propel from the ground. Do you honestly think all the elite performance trainers at college and NBA systems that put their athletes through rigorous weight training regimes just for fun? No. They all say it increases your athleticism, including your speed, jump, strength etc. Myself, and others I know, have undergone cycles of plyos and weight training, and effectively increased verticals and speed by pretty impressive amounts. Yes, basic jumping does help your vertical immensely, but weight training is so important. Plyos are best used prior to weight training. Those plyos you see advertised are usually jargon. You haven't done your research or trialled weight training if you think it doesn't work. High jumpers, sprinters, and long jumpers do weight btw. Just not ridiculously heavy weights. Also being as skinny as high jumpers in a game of basketball you will get owned.

The 'genetic freaks' are the ones with the freakish fast twitch fibres and crazy ligaments. They can't really be changed dramatically, but strength can.

Basic high school....F=ma there a=F/m.....if you can increase your force enough your acceleration is going to increase.

Look up Joe Defranco (defrancostraining.com)...dude's a beast. He will put your in your place, and on the right track. No one wants to be a hurdler.

its all about this:

[img]http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Achilles%20Tendon.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.sports-injury-info.com/image-files/knee-tendons-anterior.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=boyle777]Pauk while I agree with your respect for Lebron in other threads, you're wrong here. Weight training does increase the force at which your body can propel from the ground. Do you honestly think all the elite performance trainers at college and NBA systems that put their athletes through rigorous weight training regimes just for fun? No. They all say it increases your athleticism, including your speed, jump, strength etc. Myself, and others I know, have undergone cycles of plyos and weight training, and effectively increased verticals and speed by pretty impressive amounts. Yes, basic jumping does help your vertical immensely, but weight training is so important. Plyos are best used prior to weight training. Those plyos you see advertised are usually jargon. You haven't done your research or trialled weight training if you think it doesn't work. High jumpers, sprinters, and long jumpers do weight btw. Just not ridiculously heavy weights.[/QUOTE]

agree.... but you dont get my point (which is a scientific point)... if you want MAXIMUM vertical you could possibly get (as far as your genetics allows you) you are supposed to do all those things you mentioned but you can NEVER constantly increase it, you could NEVER get like a 50-60 inch vertical leap unless you are born with those specific ligaments/tendons needed.........

understand? YES you can increase your vertical by doing all those workouts, but how much your absolutely top result can be depends on your tendons/ligaments.... something which you can NOT develope, but only RELEASE its maximum potential by doing those workouts...

which once again brings us to the old fashioned answer... "ITS GENETICS"...

[QUOTE=pauk]agree.... but you dont get my point (which is a scientific point)... if you want MAXIMUM vertical you could possibly get (as far as your genetics allows you) you are supposed to do all those things you mentioned but you can NEVER constantly increase it, you could NEVER get like a 50-60 inch vertical leap unless you are born with those specific ligaments/tendons needed.........

understand? YES you can increase your vertical by doing all those workouts, but how much your absolutely top result can be depends on your tendons/ligaments.... something which you can NOT develope, but only RELEASE its maximum potential by doing those workouts...

which once again brings us to the old fashioned answer... "ITS GENETICS"...[/QUOTE]
I agree, though I feel it's a relatively obvious point. Clearly, people cannot just keep pushing themselves until they have an 80 inch vertical. While pro athletes are often pushed pretty close to their limit, I often find non-pro athletes have a lot of growing space.

There's a lot of vertical increasing to be had, only because most folks have not pushed to reach that peak. Most often, I can see it in my players who graduate high school and move on to play college ball. On one hand, their body may still be growing. On the other hand though, college conditioning (even at a small school) can often be intense enough to push a player's vertical up another level.

So I suppose my point would be, yes, I agree there is indeed a limit on how high a person may be able to jump, regardless of the work they put in. However, I don't think most regular guys here are going to have to worry about being held down by such a limit. I don't mean this as a put down (for I often wonder about myself in this regard) but I'm thinking most of us will never truly reach our own max jumping potential.

[QUOTE=pauk]agree.... but you dont get my point (which is a scientific point)... if you want MAXIMUM vertical you could possibly get (as far as your genetics allows you) you are supposed to do all those things you mentioned but you can NEVER constantly increase it, you could NEVER get like a 50-60 inch vertical leap unless you are born with those specific ligaments/tendons needed.........

understand? YES you can increase your vertical by doing all those workouts, but how much your absolutely top result can be depends on your tendons/ligaments.... something which you can NOT develope, but only RELEASE its maximum potential by doing those workouts...

which once again brings us to the old fashioned answer... "ITS GENETICS"...[/QUOTE]

pauk makes a good point, genetics is the major determinant in vertical leap and athleticism in general

but there is still much we do not know about this, otherwise everyone would have massive verticals

at the end of the day the only way to know for sure is to experiment with what works best for everyone, which is why a lot of programs that are done today are custom made for the athlete instead of one size fits all type programs

the best way is finding how one can balance their upper, core and lower body strength, all of these are naturally stronger or weaker depending on the person

IMO this topic is pretty easy. As far as lifting, there is no muscle you should be under training or training too often. You must have a balance, even if you weren't playing ball. If you are weak in any area, that area will lead to an injury and hamper your everyday performance. As far as how heavy, you should go moderate and only go heavy once in a while, mainly to see where you are at. But the most important thing is to use good form. If you are throwing the weights around, you aren't doing yourself any favor. Don't think that by throwing around weights, your gonna jump higher.

Arguing over what is more important quads or calves is silly. You need to strengthen both areas to prevent injuries and you also need to train your glutes and hamstrings. There is no reason to NOT train a certain muscle group. But when it comes to jumping higher, lifting weights can only do so much for you. It varies from individual, but lifting has very little to do with how high you can jump. Lifting is still important because it helps with muscle endurance, helps you fight fatigue, and prevents injury.

Having said that, plyometrics are much more important than weights for your vertical. But you still have to train with weights, so that your body can take all the training and stay injury free. You also need to make sure you are loose and flexible. Being too flexible is not good or necessary, but you should stretch your tight muscles the most.

I honestly say that the Jumpsoles and Proprioceptors from Jump USA are a very quick way to get results. I used these many years ago and they increased my vertical up to 3 inches just wearing them for 10 minutes. And after a while I got tired and it went down. Air Alert is also a real good program. But the key is sticking to them. I never stuck to them long enough to see the real results. Right now i need to focus on cardio first because i need to lose some weight before i start putting pressure on my knees, then i can try the programs again. Weight training and core strengthening along with cardio can help supplement plyometrics. Genetics have a lot to do with how high you can jump, but your veritcal can be improved, no doubt.

Between Jumpusa and Air alert, i felt like the effects i got from the jumpsoles were more temporary, where as the effects from Air Alert felt a bit more natural. But with Air alert, you are gonna have to stay real committed and it's not for everyone. I think the reason why jupmpsoles and proprioceptors improve your vertical so much is because they improve your mechanics. These things are not just good plyo training, but really good for improving your habitual jumping mechanics. Walking around for 5 minutes in those jumpsoles and dunking for the first time when you couldn't dunk before, is kinda crazy but it did happen. So i think the best solution would be to do a combination of jumpsoles and air alert. KEEP it simple. I see these plyometric exercise books that have like 100 exercises. Not necessary at all. A few basic easy exercises, done on a consistent bases should go a long way.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]Besides the fact that calves have next to nothing do with vertical, it's been proven that thinner calves are actually better for vertical (for what it's worth). Try another attempt at being funny.[/QUOTE]

why is this? just wondering? THe part about thinner calves being better

[QUOTE=pauk]look at the best vertical jumpers in the world... the olympic high jumpers..... none of them have hulk upper body... infact they want to be as light-skinny-ripped as possible.... a human at any weight is more than enough to be propelled thru the gravity at any rate.... the less weight = the more vertical.... so much upperbody weight will only actually make it harder/impossible to get as high up as you could with LESS weight....

there is no SECRET....

its all about:

1. genetics (fast twitch ligaments)
2. plyometrics/jumping & jumping & jumping & jumping & jumping (trying to enhance those fast twitch ligaments)

doing weights WONT HELP YOU... im sorry... unless you can find some weight that can make your ligaments bigger.... :lol

notice i said LIGAMENTS... not MUSCLES.... getting stronger/more muscles wont help you.... its only a fantasy...

EVERYBODY knows this..... but they try so desperately to not lose hope of their dreams......... and try to imagine there is some "secret" way of getting higher vertical....

[B]Look.... you can only workout to your genetical potential to bring out as much vertical as you GENETICALLY can... and that workout is simple... Running / Plyometrics (Jumping)...[/B][/QUOTE]

Weights help you a LOT.

They help increase your maximum strength which you need to do in order to develop a higher lift of speed for higher verticle

have u met anyone that actually improved their vertically signifcantly?

[QUOTE=poster]have u met anyone that actually improved their vertically signifcantly?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I have... Dude went insane when he got to high school, started doing all types of shit

Was a scrawny 5'11'' white kid in 9th grade, went on to become captain of swimming team, fastest sprinter in the school, best basketball player in the school.

Now like 4 years out of high school he has a pretty sick verticle (dunks easily, he's like 6 feet tall,) works out in the park every day, does parkour, climbing, running, all types of shit.

Needless to say, he lives it... But if you ever thought that half-assed training was gonna cut it you've been lying to yourself.

weights only help vertical so much. Weights only work when using it in conjunction with your jump training. If weights alone helped veritical, body builders would be nba players dunking like crazy.

[QUOTE=SacJB Shady]weights only help vertical so much. Weights only work when using it in conjunction with your jump training. If weights alone helped veritical, body builders would be nba players dunking like crazy.[/QUOTE]


well bodybuilders train for size not explosiveness and they have so much body weight that it weighs them down. a lot of olympic lifters have insane verticals even the fat ones.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]well bodybuilders train for size not explosiveness and they have so much body weight that it weighs them down. a lot of olympic lifters have insane verticals even the fat ones.[/QUOTE]

This.

Olympic Weightlifting is great for explosiveness. They are good sprinters, and 2 legged vertical and lateral jumpers.

[QUOTE=pauk]look at the best vertical jumpers in the world... the olympic high jumpers..... none of them have hulk upper body... infact they want to be as light-skinny-ripped as possible.... a human at any weight is more than enough to be propelled thru the gravity at any rate.... the less weight = the more vertical.... so much upperbody weight will only actually make it harder/impossible to get as high up as you could with LESS weight....

there is no SECRET....

its all about:

1. genetics (fast twitch ligaments)
2. plyometrics/jumping & jumping & jumping & jumping & jumping (trying to enhance those fast twitch ligaments)

doing weights WONT HELP YOU... im sorry... unless you can find some weight that can make your ligaments bigger.... :lol

notice i said LIGAMENTS... not MUSCLES.... getting stronger/more muscles wont help you.... its only a fantasy...

EVERYBODY knows this..... but they try so desperately to not lose hope of their dreams......... and try to imagine there is some "secret" way of getting higher vertical....

[B]Look.... you can only workout to your genetical potential to bring out as much vertical as you GENETICALLY can... and that workout is simple... Running / Plyometrics (Jumping)...[/B][/QUOTE]

There are no such thing as fast twitch ligaments. Muscles are fast twitch(Type IIa or Type IIx) or slow twitch(Type I). The motor neurons are also fast twitch or slow twitch. Studies have shown that hooking up a fast twitch motor neurons to a slow twitch muscle makes the slow twitch muscle act more fast twitch which COULD indicate that what type of neuron is connected matters more then the muscle.

Also, what you didn't mention with in the following post is that stefan holm does step ups with 400lbs. And even though he can jump and amazing height off one foot, his two foot vertical is barely 2 feet. And stefan holm has a strong tendon which came from lifting. Donald Thomas is another high jumper who jumps high because of his long achilles tendon. Long and stiff tendons are ideal, but stefan holm has a relatively normal sized achilles.

I see what you're trying to say, but to say weights don't help is false. It is an individual thing, but I'd say 90+% of athletes should be lifting.

[QUOTE=Swaggin916]well bodybuilders train for size not explosiveness and they have so much body weight that it weighs them down. a lot of olympic lifters have insane verticals even the fat ones.[/QUOTE]


Quite a few. I used to lift with a few guys who were short and fat but could squat a good bit of weight and could jump higher than most basketball players. One guy was about 5'4" and never played basketball but could stand under the basket, jump and hang on it with two hands.

Look guys. A little COMMON sense. Weight training can help to a certain degree with your vertical, but your not going to increase your vertical to any significant degree by doing weights alone. You think people in the gym are all of a sudden telling their workout buddies that their jumping so much higher? It's just not the case. It doesn't matter if your the strongest person in the world. It doesnt matter how fast you are training. If you do deadlifts at a high enough intensity, you are gonna eventually snap your shit up, that is guaranteed. Plyometrics are the way to go when it comes to vertical. Plyometrics and keeping your body weight down. Then you do some form of weight lifting on the side to supplement your plyometrics. It doesn't matter if your doing jumpsoles or air alert, the bottom line is nothing happens without any plyometric training. Or you can listen to Jimmy Struthers below in this video. Jimmy Struthers be saying that you can gain a foot vertical in 2 weeks lifting weights. Watch below...


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rQzRgdF6s&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/url]

[QUOTE=SacJB Shady]Look guys. A little COMMON sense. Weight training can help to a certain degree with your vertical, but your not going to increase your vertical to any significant degree by doing weights alone. You think people in the gym are all of a sudden telling their workout buddies that their jumping so much higher? It's just not the case. It doesn't matter if your the strongest person in the world. It doesnt matter how fast you are training. If you do deadlifts at a high enough intensity, you are gonna eventually snap your shit up, that is guaranteed. Plyometrics are the way to go when it comes to vertical. Plyometrics and keeping your body weight down. Then you do some form of weight lifting on the side to supplement your plyometrics. It doesn't matter if your doing jumpsoles or air alert, the bottom line is nothing happens without any plyometric training. Or you can listen to Jimmy Struthers below in this video. Jimmy Struthers be saying that you can gain a foot vertical in 2 weeks lifting weights. Watch below...


[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_rQzRgdF6s&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/url][/QUOTE]

You're right, traditional weight training alone wouldn't be good for vertical. However, plyometrics alone wouldn't let a person reach their genetic potential either. A combination of both is needed for optimum results. Weight training allows for more muscular power, as well as desensitizig the golgi tendon which shuts down the muscle if too much load is placed on the muscle. Look how high football players jump and how fast they run. They're all taught to lift and run/jump. While just saying lifting and jumping is oversimplified, until an athlete squats around 1.5xBW, thats all that is really needed in order to improve performance.