Why do some GMs appear to be so dumb?

Like, we're fans. We like to run off at the mouth like we know what we're talking about, but at the end of the day, we're just people sitting in front of a computer.

But these GMs - they get paid a lot of money to make good decisions. And more than a few of them aren't doing that. And we let them have it because of that. And sometimes, I think to myself - "I'm really not qualified to question this person's decision making, but that was a horrible move."

I'm bring this up because I'm seeing teams try to get rid of guys they JUST signed last summer. I see the Spurs trying to ditch Jefferson on whatever team wants Tony Parker. I see the Bucks trying to unload Corey Maggette.

Why are the Bucks paying Maggette so much damn money? He's been a flake his entire career. He definitely has a role in the league, but no one should be paying the guy upwards of 10 million a year. Same with Drew Gooden. Is that really a guy you want to have locked into a long-term contract? Is it? He's another flake.

What the hell was Denver thinking with Al Harrington? I just don't get it. Kapono's contract is expiring this season at like 7 million dollars. Really? Does the person to agreed to that still have a job?

This is why I don't feel a damn bit sorry for these owners in the CBA negotiations. They employ idiots that do stuff like this. How did it get this way? How did guys that have no business getting this kind of money start getting this overpaid? The owners did this to themselves by hiring people that make horrible decisions. If a fan can see it as a bad decision from a mile away, why can't an NBA GM?

[IMG]http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/de/24/1911b69840d8be365a488e51de6a.jpeg[/IMG]

"But but but my daddy says I'm smart!"

NBA GM's forgot more about basketball while sitting on the toilet this morning than most fans will ever know.

Fans have the advantage of looking at deals in hindsight and saying how good/bad they were. They're not called on to make decisions in real time and have their job hanging in the balance.

It's time consuming to go back through threads and find all the places an individual poster was incredibly stupid. Not so hard to analyze every GM's comment/decision.

They only appear dumb to those that are deluding themselves in a fantasy world where they actually know something.

DIDN'T READ, OTIS SMITH?:lol

[QUOTE=JMT]NBA GM's forgot more about basketball while sitting on the toilet this morning than most fans will ever know.

Fans have the advantage of looking at deals in hindsight and saying how good/bad they were. They're not called on to make decisions in real time and have their job hanging in the balance.

It's time consuming to go back through threads and find all the places an individual poster was incredibly stupid. Not so hard to analyze every GM's comment/decision.

They only appear dumb to those that are deluding themselves in a fantasy world where they actually know something.[/QUOTE]

So, you're telling me that giving Corey Maggette a contract like that was a sound move? Tons of fans called that dumb at the time and now they're trying to get rid of him. Same thing with Jefferson, Harrington, Jason Kapono, Matt Carroll, Brian Cardinal, Jerome James, etc. I'm not saying they're dumb because they mess up occasionally. I'm clearly saying they're dumb for doing things that are so clearly dumb, it's beyond belief. I'm not talking about signing a guy and it just doesn't pan out but the guy was a good signing. I'm talking the "what are they doing?" type of signings that never end up working out that even fans can see from a mile away.

Did you even even read what I wrote? I acknowledged that fans don't know what they're talking about.

I'm not talking about hindsight perspective here. I'm talking about real time, "that is a dumbass move" perspective. They frequently do things that so obviously have failure written all over them. They overpay mediocre players so they can get them and then the owners whine about salaries being out of control.

Part of it's market value. If you give one guy a bad contract on the level of say Matt Carroll, Diop gets one too, then Kapono, then Jerome James etc etc.

Same thing happens in baseball.

Then part of it is just being a dumbass, as in also Matt Carroll, or Darko Milocic, Joe Johnson etc etc. They paid them KNOWING they weren't worth that much money, but spent it because they had it. Which really really ruins the NBA, and a lot of sports.

[QUOTE=fatboy11]So, you're telling me that giving Corey Maggette a contract like that was a sound move? Tons of fans called that dumb at the time and now they're trying to get rid of him. Same thing with Jefferson, Harrington, Jason Kapono, Matt Carroll, Brian Cardinal, Jerome James, etc. I'm not saying they're dumb because they mess up occasionally. I'm clearly saying they're dumb for doing things that are so clearly dumb, it's beyond belief. I'm not talking about signing a guy and it just doesn't pan out but the guy was a good signing. I'm talking the "what are they doing?" type of signings that never end up working out that even fans can see from a mile away.

Did you even even read what I wrote? I acknowledged that fans don't know what they're talking about.[/QUOTE]

Make the call on the deals when they're done...not after the results are in...and your argument would have at least a bit of validity.

GM's have owners to deal with. Just like any boss, there are times you've got to go feed the boss' wants/needs. They also have salary cap issues to deal with, along with internal finance. I've seen enough of the posts here to know that VERY few posters really underdtand the cap and, unless you're inside, there's no way to understand yhe full financial situation.

I guarantee Dallas would say every penny spent on Cardinal was a good investment based solely on what he did in the Finals.

I would love to see the typical ISH poster run a team. Hell, even a concensus of the "best minds" on the site. They'd win fewer than the Washington Generals.

[QUOTE=JMT]NBA GM's forgot more about basketball while sitting on the toilet this morning than most fans will ever know.

Fans have the advantage of looking at deals in hindsight and saying how good/bad they were. They're not called on to make decisions in real time and have their job hanging in the balance.

It's time consuming to go back through threads and find all the places an individual poster was incredibly stupid. Not so hard to analyze every GM's comment/decision.

They only appear dumb to those that are deluding themselves in a fantasy world where they actually know something.[/QUOTE]


i think u give them way too much credit.

altho i do agree at least that they are ultimately responsible in making that tough decision which is easier to call them out on, than random posters.

but its also i think they have to battle their owners wishes, along with their coaches. Like i don't think Walsh was responsible for everything going on in NY, or releasing Brewer lets say, more than D Antoni and maybe Dolan. but he gets the brunt of the blame for it since he's the GM.

one of the biggest fiasco's i've ever seen was when the Sun's tried to completely change their playstyle around to slow down that half season where it failed miserably. i think that may have been on the owner as well. But i've never seen such amateur, almost retarded, management of a team, and prior to that relatively successful team considering they reached semi's and made playoffs 2/4 years....

ultimately i think GM's like other 'professionals', are a bit exaggerated in how great they must be to be 'professionals' and in that position, from the perspective of the masses. i mean when George Bush can become Prez, the highest most esteemed job in our country, then you look at the perception of how most people look at people in high positions pretending they all deserve it and MUSt know what they're doing/talking about, i think its the infallible perceptions they must know a lot more thats the problem. I don't think they do, and a lot of it is subjective.

There is the Larry Brown way of thinking - GMs are only going to be there 5-6 years, so during the first 3-4 years of a long term contract the guy can play, but during those last 2-3 years you'll be gone anyway when the guy is beat up and old, so what difference does it make to you (you in the general sense)?

That's why the new CBA has to limit contracts to 4 years for regular contracts and 2 years for extensions and then MLEs to 3 years (with 2 year extensions after that).

[QUOTE=JMT]Make the call on the deals when they're done...not after the results are in...and your argument would have at least a bit of validity.[/quote]

I did!!!!! All of those moves that I mentioned were dumb at the time and dumb now. It was all over this board.

[QUOTE=JMT]GM's have owners to deal with. Just like any boss, there are times you've got to go feed the boss' wants/needs. They also have salary cap issues to deal with, along with internal finance. I've seen enough of the posts here to know that VERY few posters really underdtand the cap and, unless you're inside, there's no way to understand yhe full financial situation.[/quote]

Are you "inside"? If not, how do you make that comment? How does giving Maggette 10 million a year make sense in any perspective?

[QUOTE=JMT]I guarantee Dallas would say every penny spent on Cardinal was a good investment based solely on what he did in the Finals.[/quote]

Well, no shit. He made the veteran's minimum. I'm CLEARLY talking about the contract he got from Memphis.

[QUOTE=JMT]I would love to see the typical ISH poster run a team. Hell, even a concensus of the "best minds" on the site. They'd win fewer than the Washington Generals.[/QUOTE]

Completely irrelevant. The point was NEVER that posters were smarter than GMs. Again, did you even read the OP?

[QUOTE=mmsupra]DIDN'T READ, [B]OTIS SMITH[/B]?:lol[/QUOTE]

I think i can be a better Gm than this guy :oldlol: :oldlol: No hindsight needed, this guy every move he makes is just horrible. I think the Magic fans should demand he makes his moves public before pulling the trigger so they can approve or disaprove of them :oldlol:

[QUOTE=fatboy11]I did!!!!! All of those moves that I mentioned were dumb at the time and dumb now. It was all over this board.

[/QUOTE]

Pointing out a move here and a move there by different franchises means nothing. A managem ent team has to make hundreds of decisions in the course of doing business. I don't care what business you look at, in what sector; if they're going to be measured by their wortst one or two moves, they're always going to look bad.

I'm proud that you were all over the board on thaose moves. Now, if you had to make those decisons to sustain your lifestyle, feed your family, and maintain your career vs possibly looking foolish on a message board where nobody knows or cares who you are? That kind of pressure and scrutiny has a definite impact on the decision making process.

A poster mentioned the Suns, who had been advancing in the playoffs but couldn't get over the hump. They made a bad strategic move in bringing in Shaq and attempting to adoipt a slower style. What we don't know is whether that's brought about by an owner who says "getting close isn't good enough. Our style isn't getting it done. Change or lose your job." Or maybe they realized they have an aging PG and little else, and figured the window was closing.

In any case, that same management team brought in Grant Hill, which has been an incredibly smart move (and one I'm sure was roundly criticized due to his age and health); dumped a few guys who turned out to be stiffs outside of their system for Dudley, who was a throw-in steal; got rid of Stou_emire, who I believe will age very poorly; etc.

If you have to make decisions that can be impacted by hundreds of variables (health, desire, ability to mesh on the court and in the locker room, and many more) some are going to be great and some are going to be awful. The majority will be right in the middle.

[QUOTE=JMT]Pointing out a move here and a move there by different franchises means nothing. A managem ent team has to make hundreds of decisions in the course of doing business. I don't care what business you look at, in what sector; if they're going to be measured by their wortst one or two moves, they're always going to look bad.

I'm proud that you were all over the board on thaose moves. Now, if you had to make those decisons to sustain your lifestyle, feed your family, and maintain your career vs possibly looking foolish on a message board where nobody knows or cares who you are? That kind of pressure and scrutiny has a definite impact on the decision making process.

A poster mentioned the Suns, who had been advancing in the playoffs but couldn't get over the hump. They made a bad strategic move in bringing in Shaq and attempting to adoipt a slower style. What we don't know is whether that's brought about by an owner who says "getting close isn't good enough. Our style isn't getting it done. Change or lose your job." Or maybe they realized they have an aging PG and little else, and figured the window was closing.

In any case, that same management team brought in Grant Hill, which has been an incredibly smart move (and one I'm sure was roundly criticized due to his age and health); dumped a few guys who turned out to be stiffs outside of their system for Dudley, who was a throw-in steal; got rid of Stou_emire, who I believe will age very poorly; etc.

If you have to make decisions that can be impacted by hundreds of variables (health, desire, ability to mesh on the court and in the locker room, and many more) some are going to be great and some are going to be awful. The majority will be right in the middle.[/QUOTE]

That's the type of answer I'm looking for. Not that this "you don't know anything, they know more than you do" bullshit that I got out of the way in the first post.....

If you could have just said something like that from the start, instead of making this GM vs. internet poster (which I clearly tried to avoid), this thread would have run more smoothly. But I guess every thread needs a jackass to stir stuff up.

[QUOTE]I would love to see the typical ISH poster run a team. Hell, even a concensus of the "best minds" on the site. They'd win fewer than the Washington Generals.[/QUOTE]

No they wouldnt. a lot of the job is just common sense, luck, and situaiton, Like if I were running the cavs in 03 id have taken anyone but Lebron...

These arent teams that are blank slates to build. If you hand me or most of us the...Nuggets. What do you think happens? The team has players set. Good coach. Eventually we would have to choose who to resign but we would have the owner, coaches, and players opinions to consider. Not left out on our own. If George Karl says "I need ___ on this team...lets try to keep him" what am I gonna tell him to **** off?

It takes YEARS for a GMs actions to really make or break a franchise outside the major overnight rebuilds. And even then you have a huge staff to lean on.

Give me the Heat...they win plenty of games the next 5-6 years and perhaps some rings. Give me the Bobcats...eh. Who knows?

Gms are victims of what they have to work with as much as anyone else. Some of them barely make any moves at all.

I could pick a coach out of a grabbag and likely do...decently if I had a team in place. Or do what so many of the mdo...wait till the end of the year and sign an assistant the league is high on from a finals team.

GMs make the big calls...at least have a say in them with the owners and coaches. But they dont really have to figure out who is good and who sucks. They have scouts, coaches, and common knowledge to lean on.

There is probably more to learn about keeping all the egos in check than basketball. You dont need to know the game terribly well to pick who your 11 scouts are raving about. Or to know a well known coach knows a thing or two. Or to call someone and ask about an assistant the league has beentalking about for 10 years.

These guys arent working alone.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]No they wouldnt. a lot of the job is just common sense, luck, and situaiton, Like if I were running the cavs in 03 id have taken anyone but Lebron...

These arent teams that are blank slates to build. If you hand me or most of us the...Nuggets. What do you think happens? The team has players set. Good coach. Eventually we would have to choose who to resign but we would have the owner, coaches, and players opinions to consider. Not left out on our own. If George Karl says "I need ___ on this team...lets try to keep him" what am I gonna tell him to **** off?

It takes YEARS for a GMs actions to really make or break a franchise outside the major overnight rebuilds. And even then you have a huge staff to lean on.

Give me the Heat...they win plenty of games the next 5-6 years and perhaps some rings. Give me the Bobcats...eh. Who knows?

Gms are victims of what they have to work with as much as anyone else. Some of them barely make any moves at all.

I could pick a coach out of a grabbag and likely do...decently if I had a team in place. Or do what so many of the mdo...wait till the end of the year and sign an assistant the league is high on from a finals team.

GMs make the big calls...at least have a say in them with the owners and coaches. But they dont really have to figure out who is good and who sucks. They have scouts, coaches, and common knowledge to lean on.

There is probably more to learn about keeping all the egos in check than basketball. You dont need to know the game terribly well to pick who your 11 scouts are raving about. Or to know a well known coach knows a thing or two. Or to call someone and ask about an assistant the league has beentalking about for 10 years.

These guys arent working alone.[/QUOTE]

So, basically, I should have rephrased to "NBA front offices" instead of NBA GMs? I can see where you're coming from.

[QUOTE=fatboy11]That's the type of answer I'm looking for. Not that this "you don't know anything, they know more than you do" bullshit that I got out of the way in the first post.....

If you could have just said something like that from the start, instead of making this GM vs. internet poster (which I clearly tried to avoid), this thread would have run more smoothly. But I guess every thread needs a jackass to stir stuff up.[/QUOTE]

You "clearly tried to avoid that" by playing both sides of the fence. On one hand, you said fans are dumb. On the other you said GMs are dumb. What response was supposed to be acceptable to you?

I never pointed a finger at "YOU"; I clearly included all fans, by using phrases like "most fans", "the average ISH poster", etc.

The only person who has resorted to personal attacks is you, and you [I]continue[/I] to do so even when we've reached a point where you're satisfied with my answer to your question.

[QUOTE=fatboy11]So, basically, [B]I should have rephrased to "NBA front offices" instead of NBA GMs?[/B] I can see where you're coming from.[/QUOTE]

I think someone like OTIS never consults with anyone, or if he does, it's van dummy who is a yes man. There is no way a group of guys could be making this bad moves over and over. unless he has a bunch of yes men working for him.

[QUOTE=JMT]You "clearly tried to avoid that" by playing both sides of the fence. On one hand, you said fans are dumb. On the other you said GMs are dumb. What response was supposed to be acceptable to you?[/quote]

Just a simple response to my rant. I didn't need to be told that GMs know more than fans since I already stated so. And I'm not playing both sides of the fence. There are dumb fans and smart fans. That's a fact. There are good GMs and bad GMs. That's a fact. Stating facts = playing both sides? Guess we all do then.

[QUOTE=JMT]I never pointed a finger at "YOU"; I clearly included all fans, by using phrases like "most fans", "the average ISH poster", etc.[/quote]

I wasn't literally saying you were pointing the finger at me, but the point is still the same. This was not meant to be a "what do fans knows vs. what do GMs know" debate.

[QUOTE=JMT]The only person who has resorted to personal attacks is you, and you [I]continue[/I] to do so even when we've reached a point where you're satisfied with my answer to your question.[/QUOTE]

Okay. And?

[QUOTE=fatboy11]

And?[/QUOTE]

And your insistence on continuing to bitch at someone you've admitted has given you the type of response you desired makes it obvious who the jackass is that's only trying to stir things up.

[QUOTE=fatboy11]Who do some GMs appear to be so dumb?[/QUOTE]

I liken them to the Wall Street banker CEOs and board members who destroyed the world economy - they're not particularly smart, they just know how to work their way to the top.

the wrath of kahn

OP, so you look at yourself and think that you're not qualified to question the judgement of a guy who works in SPORTS?!

GM's work in SPORTS!!

NOT FINANCE

NOT ACCOUNTING

NOT THE MEDICAL FIELD

SPORTS!!!!

All it's about is knowing who can play and who can't. If I would've ran the Knicks the past few years I would've done a better job than Isiah Thomas, and even better than Donnie Walsh (in the draft atleast).

This is about judging talent, and if you watch the game and you know the game, you are just as qualified as a GM.

99% of these GM's don't have a specialized degree in some sort of sports field, and even if they did...it's still a subjective job. The only GM that I now of that doesn't base decisions on his opinion from watching an athlete play is Darryl Morey who has some kind of degree in Statistics.

Being a lifelong Cowboys fan makes me appreciate Sam Presti that much more. Dude is a mastermind of putting a team together.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]No they wouldnt. a lot of the job is just common sense, luck, and situaiton, [B]Like if I were running the cavs in 03 id have taken anyone but Lebron...[/B]

GMs make the big calls...at least have a say in them with the owners and coaches. [B]But they dont really have to figure out who is good and who sucks. They have scouts, coaches, and common knowledge to lean on.[/B]

There is probably more to learn about keeping all the egos in check than basketball. [B]You dont need to know the game terribly well to pick who your 11 scouts are raving about.[/B] Or to know a well known coach knows a thing or two. Or to call someone and ask about an assistant the league has beentalking about for 10 years.

These guys arent working alone.[/QUOTE]

So you would have decided to take "anyone but LeBron"? What happened to the 11 scouts that are raving about him, as all the scouts were at the time?

Think Darko would have kept you in a job?

[QUOTE=Theoo's Daddy]I think i can be a better Gm than this guy :oldlol: :oldlol: No hindsight needed, this guy every move he makes is just horrible. I think the Magic fans should demand he makes his moves public before pulling the trigger so they can approve or disaprove of them :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Otis Smith is a dumbshit.

Because they are afraid of getting fired due to luxury taxes, bad deals, backlash from fans, etc.

As Bill Simmons would say, the reason the NBA sucks these days is because it's the No Balls Association.

i don't think the Orlando trade was as bad when it went down as it is now. Don't forget a lot of people including Otis thought Arenas was just playing hurt, and how he was some top PG if he were healthy(not me just saying). And they were going nowhere with Rashard Lewis and Vince was clearly on his last legs, even the Sun's are buying him out. The irony is him and Gilbert are tight, and Gilbert is the one that will probably get him fired.

Now the JJ signing on the other hand...

[QUOTE=JMT]And your insistence on continuing to bitch at someone you've admitted has given you the type of response you desired makes it obvious who the jackass is that's only trying to stir things up.[/QUOTE]

I'm not bitching about anything. I called you a jackass because you were fixated fan vs. GM aspect of this thing. I readily admitted that fans don't know as much as GMs. Maybe I shouldn't have called you a jackass, and I apologize for that, but I don't back off what I said. I kinda regret saying it.

[QUOTE=NewYorkNoPicks]OP, so you look at yourself and think that you're not qualified to question the judgement of a guy who works in SPORTS?!

GM's work in SPORTS!!

NOT FINANCE

NOT ACCOUNTING

NOT THE MEDICAL FIELD

SPORTS!!!!

All it's about is knowing who can play and who can't. If I would've ran the Knicks the past few years I would've done a better job than Isiah Thomas, and even better than Donnie Walsh (in the draft atleast).

This is about judging talent, and if you watch the game and you know the game, you are just as qualified as a GM.

99% of these GM's don't have a specialized degree in some sort of sports field, and even if they did...it's still a subjective job. The only GM that I now of that doesn't base decisions on his opinion from watching an athlete play is Darryl Morey who has some kind of degree in Statistics.[/QUOTE]

That's entirely not true. Their sole job is more than evaluating talent and making rosters, if I'm not mistaken. It is the biggest part of their job, however.

[QUOTE=JMT]So you would have decided to take "anyone but LeBron"? What happened to the 11 scouts that are raving about him, as all the scouts were at the time?

Think Darko would have kept you in a job?[/QUOTE]


Im sure I left out some punctuation in there somewhere but what I was saying is....I would take Lebron. Anyone would. And it wouldnt take a deep knowledge of the game to do so. Though I remember clearly reading Chad Ford say he spoke to 2 GMS who would have taken Darko over Lebron.

So....these arent just...brilliant people. They dont have to be. Im thinking just listening and having a personality that can keep those under you in line would be enough.

I would say the average GM knows more than most fans. The usually come from the game. But a fan could do much of what they have to do decisionmaking wise and not result in the worst team of all time.

The NBA is an old boy's club.

[QUOTE=JMT]Make the call on the deals when they're done...not after the results are in...and your argument would have at least a bit of validity.

GM's have owners to deal with. Just like any boss, there are times you've got to go feed the boss' wants/needs. They also have salary cap issues to deal with, along with internal finance. I've seen enough of the posts here to know that VERY few posters really underdtand the cap and, unless you're inside, there's no way to understand yhe full financial situation.

I guarantee Dallas would say every penny spent on Cardinal was a good investment based solely on what he did in the Finals.

I would love to see the typical ISH poster run a team. Hell, even a concensus of the "best minds" on the site. They'd win fewer than the Washington Generals.[/QUOTE]

Grumpy Old Man.

[img]http://www.anonymong.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/grumpy-old-man.jpg[/img]

If we pick any random Isher here and analyze his predictions he'll look wayy more stupid than any GM.

I've once read a poster here arguing that the Mavs are in dire need of more perimeter offense to help Dirk. I was telling him they need a real C instead as Dirk is soft and the guy was insistent Dirk never had any real perimeter help despite having Marion and Butler. Well the Mavs got Chandler and look what happened.

If this fool were the Mav's GM he'd have gutted the team for a useless wing player and no chip...

[QUOTE=Pinkhearts]If we pick any random Isher here and analyze his predictions he'll look wayy more stupid than any GM.

I've once read a poster here arguing that the Mavs are in dire need of more perimeter offense to help Dirk. I was telling him they need a real C instead as Dirk is soft and the guy was insistent Dirk never had any real perimeter help despite having Marion and Butler. Well the Mavs got Chandler and look what happened.

If this fool were the Mav's GM he'd have gutted the team for a useless wing player and no chip...[/QUOTE]



not to be argumentative but they did pick up Peja, and they did just trade for Rudy.

not saying Chandler didn't help them alot but they do need 3 pt shot makers to spread the floor especially when they collapse on Dirk.

to me it goes both ways, since GM's can be complete retards and fans can just as much be right when GM's are wrong from what i've seen.

[QUOTE=Theoo's Daddy][B]I think i can be a better Gm[/B] than this guy :oldlol: :oldlol: No hindsight needed, this guy every move he makes is just horrible. I think the Magic fans should demand he makes his moves public before pulling the trigger so they can approve or disaprove of them :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

:facepalm

[QUOTE=Godzuki]not to be argumentative but they did pick up Peja, and they did just trade for Rudy.

not saying Chandler didn't help them alot but they do need 3 pt shot makers to spread the floor especially when they collapse on Dirk.

to me it goes both ways, since GM's can be complete retards and fans can just as much be right when GM's are wrong from what i've seen.[/QUOTE]

Peja is just a dirt cheap shooter coming from the bench which are easily picked up on low salary. Hardly the blockbuster acquisition for an All star perimeter offense the fool was demanding. Of course you need shooters, every team needs shooters. But they are easy come easy go so the Mavs should have worried about their center which they did.

Yeah.. Peja signed for the vet minimum or something.

I think the most frustrating 'building process' to have dealt with over the past 5-7 years were the Suns. They had the 06-07 team that were tied 2-2 with the Spurs and then got dealt bullshit suspensions and ended up losing a close game 5 and 6. Most people regarded them as the runnerups to that year. So what does the front office do?

Pay (literally with picks and cash) teams to take:
Kurt Thomas - One of their main rotational players and their best post defender, one they needed for Duncan.
James Jones - Another one of their rotational players who was a good shooter and solid defender.

These were moves I criticized from the start. I COULD NOT believe that they were blowing up critical parts of such a successful team just to save money when your team is so close to contention with an ever closing window to win.

Then midway through the next season they panic over not having enough post presence and trade Marion/Banks for Shaq. When this trade was being rumoured my cousin and I were highly against it. After the trade was done I was iffy and willing to look at the coming results as Marion had always been inconsistent in the playoffs anyways and frequently dissapeared against an defensively aggressive Spurs team.

The trade bombs. They lose early in the playoffs and Shaq turns out to be a cancer, not that he did not show it in LA and MIA but he brought those teams championships so all was forgiven. From this day on, I always laugh at any team who traded FOR Shaq (I'm looking at YOU Cleveland/Boston). Okay fine, Steve Kerr took a gamble and it failed; it happens. He gets rid of Shaq and publicly states that as a good team there are times to realize when you are no longer in contention and to pull the trigger on rebuilding.

Except the ****ing jackass doesn't. He continues to make trades to make the Suns reminiscent of the 05-06 team (Nash's second MVP year) and the team overachieves, sweeping the Spurs in the semis and losing to the Lakers in 6.

Kerr steps down, having ruined the best Nash Suns team and failing to truly rebuild. The next moron who comes in does not resign Amare (because they want to rebuild) but hands out 3 other contracts to mediocre players that more than covered Stoudemire's contract.

So now they are not good enough to get into the playoffs and not bad enough to rebuild. They are mired in mediocrity, wasting the last couple years of Nash's career. What more? THEY'RE SADDLED IN CONTRACTS. I feel bad for Nash but he enjoys his life in Phoenix and enjoys playing Hill and company. I'm also glad that Phoenix will suck for the next 8 years and never sniff another good team for ****ing over their own team and and fans in the most frustrating way possible.

WORST MANAGED TEAM OF THE CENTURY SO FAR.