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Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
Since this forum is flooded with idiots that claim Derrick Rose would "dominate Euroleague", "win 10 MVPs and championships in Euroleague", "average 50/20/10 in Euroleague", "average 80/30/20 in Euroleague", etc.
It's about time to put this insane and ludicrous myth to rest here. The fact is that Derrick Rose would absolutely suck in the Euroleague. He cannot properly run an offense. He cannot properly run the pick and roll. He cannot shoot from Euroleague 3 point distance. He is a total ball hog. He is a chucker. Without the ball in his hands, he is absolutely useless on offense. He is an incredibly huge turnover machine.
He relies on NBA rules (no true zone defense allowed, no hand checking allowed, defensive 3 seconds rule, and NBA refs that give "superstar treatment") to inflate and exaggerate his basketball ability.
He plays in a league (NBA) where the point guards are small and where there is almost no physical contact allowed, and where he can automatically get free throws by simply lunging into the paint and throwing himself to the floor.
In the Euroleague, literally every strength of his NBA game would be taken away and literally every weakness of his NBA game would be accentuated.
Also, in the Euroleague, they don't just give out assists for any pass to a score. You have to actually earn the assist. So people that think he could average as many assists in Euroleague as he does in the NBA are totally delusional.
We have already seen Derrick Rose playing under a FIBA system and rules. The result was --->
[url]http://www.turkey2010.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/10/fwcm/player/p/eid/4728/pid/61798/rid//sid/4728/tid/379/profile.html[/url]
[B]Derrick Rose 2010 FIBA World Championship Stats:[/B]
23.1 Minutes Per Game
45.8 Field Goal %
27.8 3 Point Field Goal %
50.0 Free Throw %
7.2 Points Per Game
3.2 Assists Per Game
2.1 Rebounds Per Game
1.1 Steals Per Game
0.3 Blocks Per Game
1.6 Turnovers Per Game
And this was with extremely friendly to Team USA reffing during the entire tournament. Something he would not get if he was playing in the Euroleague.
Simply put, Derrick Rose would flat out suck if he was in the Euroleague.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :facepalm
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/Burninmaphone/Gifs/fryrave.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
You forgot to mention that he is from Chicago and has 40 inch vertical you probably did not get the memo.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
Probably when he would get use to game here, he could average something like 20/5/5. You have to know, that in Europe there are way less assists, not because of less passing, but because of different counting of it. Of current American players I can see only Durant and maybe Howard/Wade averaging more than 30ppg.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[IMG]http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/86445-3/Fatkid_creepy_look.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Jan95]Probably when he would get use to game here, he could average something like 20/5/5. You have to know, that in Europe there are way less assists, not because of less passing, but because of different counting of it. Of current American players I can see only Durant and maybe Howard/Wade averaging more than 30ppg.[/QUOTE]
WTF? There is no way in hell that he would average 20 a game in Euroleague. And there is not a player on the planet that could average 30 in the Euroleague.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
Hmm not sure this is relevant. First he only played 23 minutes a game, only had 1.6 turnovers, had a pretty good FG% and was on a team with Durant (Who dominated) and other NBA stars.
Players who play on these FIBA and Olympic teams always have a drop in their stats because they are sharing the spotlight an playing significantly less minutes than they normally would.
I believe Jordan only averaged 8 points or so on the 92 Dream Team and we all know how that turned out
:cheers:
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague]WTF? There is no way in hell that he would average 20 a game in Euroleague. And there is not a player on the planet that could average 30 in the Euroleague.[/QUOTE]
He could, after a year or two in Euroleague, with a proper attitude and good coach... in the best case 20...
@RRR3
No way Lebron could average 30. He would be fouled out every night and travels in every play. Melo, maybe... cause is great shooter. Kobe, nah, not at this age...
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=RRR3]Say what? Melo, Kobe, LBJ would all get 30 easily.[/QUOTE]
No player on Earth would average 30 in the Euroleague. You have absolutely zero general basketball knowledge if you believe any of those players could average 30 in the Euroleague. Absolutely zero general basketball knowledge.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Sampsonsimpson]Hmm not sure this is relevant. First he only played 23 minutes a game, only had 1.6 turnovers, had a pretty good FG% and was on a team with Durant (Who dominated) and other NBA stars.
Players who play on these FIBA and Olympic teams always have a drop in their stats because they are sharing the spotlight an playing significantly less minutes than they normally would.
I believe Jordan only averaged 8 points or so on the 92 Dream Team and we all know how that turned out
:cheers:[/QUOTE]
Even most of the top players in Euroleague average about 25 minutes per game. He would not be playing that many more minutes in Euroleague, considering that the average starter in Euroleague plays about 20 minutes a game.
His 3 point field goal percentage was 27.8 with a shorter 3 point line than the Euroleague uses. Also, I was referring to his turnover rate in the NBA playoffs, which was awful.
We saw how turnover prone he is when the defense is keyed on him and he is running all the plays in the NBA playoffs. In the Euroelague, that would be even further accentuated because of the true zone defense, allowance of hand checking, less space to operate, and allowance of more physical contact.
Without being able to shoot from long distance, teams would really zone on him and sag off him and pack the paint (no defensive 3 seconds rule). Less passing space, because of a smaller court and true zone allowed (you do not have to be within an arm's length of the defender like under the NBA "zone")..............it would mean a ton of turnovers for him playing in the Euroleague.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Jan95]He could, after a year or two in Euroleague, with a proper attitude and good coach... in the best case 20...
@RRR3
No way Lebron could average 30. He would be fouled out every night and travels in every play. Melo, maybe... cause is great shooter. Kobe, nah, not at this age...[/QUOTE]
Explain to me how anyone is going to average 30 a game with true FIBA rules and 40 minute games. I am sorry, but no way in hell.
The last guy to average 30 in Euroleague was Galis and that was about 20 years ago, and the pace then was significantly higher than it is now and the defense was significantly worse than it is now. Galis was an out of this world scoring machine (far above what Rose, Melo, Howard, LeBron could ever be scoring wise) and I see absolutely no way that he could average 30 in Euroleague if he was playing today.
I don't see any way that any NBA player would even sniff near 30 a game in Euroleague. 23 a game is about the absolute maximum I see being possible for any NBA player in the Euroleague.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[IMG]http://i53.tinypic.com/qxnudv.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
he wouldnt suck but i dont think he will be the best player in euroleague
something like 18/4/5
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
OP is retarded.
If Anthony Parker won the MVP over there, Rose would DOMINATE.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague]Explain to me how anyone is going to average 30 a game with true FIBA rules and 40 minute games. I am sorry, but no way in hell.
The last guy to average 30 in Euroleague was Galis and that was about 20 years ago, and the pace then was significantly higher than it is now and the defense was significantly worse than it is now. Galis was an out of this world scoring machine (far above what Rose, Melo, Howard, LeBron could ever be scoring wise) and I see absolutely no way that he could average 30 in Euroleague if he was playing today.
I don't see any way that any NBA player would even sniff near 30 a game in Euroleague. 23 a game is about the absolute maximum I see being possible for any NBA player in the Euroleague.[/QUOTE]
Durant was last year absolutely dominate on World Championship, he averaged 23/6/5, and with a little more experience I think he could easily average something around 30... and you must also consider that he for a Team USA, which means that he had a lot more egoistic teammates than he would have in a club.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]OP is retarded.
If Anthony Parker won the MVP over there, Rose would DOMINATE.[/QUOTE]
You are the one who is retarded. Only a retard could think Derrick Rose would dominate the Euroleague.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Jan95]Durant was last year absolutely dominate on World Championship, he averaged 23/6/5, and with a little more experience I think he could easily average something around 30... and you must also consider that he for a Team USA, which means that he had a lot more egoistic teammates than he would have in a club.[/QUOTE]
Are you actually saying that he would be allowed to play like that [B]throughout an entire Euroleague season[/B], without the opposing teams just completely zoning up on him individually?
And 30 points a game is a hell of a lot different than 23 a game, and FYI, that was the best Durant has ever played in his entire life. He has not even played near that well since then.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague]You are the one who is retarded. Only a retard could think Derrick Rose would dominate the Euroleague.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
Anthony Parker was the two time MVP of the Euroleague, and your telling me Rose wouldn't dominate over there? :roll:
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=RRR3]So Anthony Parker>Derrick Rose? :facepalm[/QUOTE]
First of all, that was prime Anthony Parker.
Second of all, the Euroleague was much weaker then than it is now.
Third, yes, prime Anthony Parker would definitely be a much better Euroleague player than current Derrick Rose. Without any question.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
Why is this troll allowed to post? Why is allowed to post thread after thread about the Euroleague in an NBA forum?
Oh, and he's a retard.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=GreatGreg]:roll:
Anthony Parker was the two time MVP of the Euroleague, and your telling me Rose wouldn't dominate over there? :roll:[/QUOTE]
You earned an ignore.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague]You earned an ignore.[/QUOTE]
Ok, so that means I win.
Rose would massacre the competition over there.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague]First of all, that was prime Anthony Parker.
Second of all, the Euroleague was much weaker then than it is now.
Third, yes, prime Anthony Parker would definitely be a much better Euroleague player than current Derrick Rose. Without any question.[/QUOTE]
Anthony Parker had a prime? :roll:
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=RRR3]Wait, so when someone proves you to be an idiot, you just ignore them? LOL pathetic.[/QUOTE]
You earned one too. All you are doing is trolling the thread and trying to derail it because you know it is true and it pisses you off. That is what is pathetic.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
The only other loser that goes to these epic trolling lengths is Bladers. I'm assuming neither one of you has anything better to do than provoke and instigate people on an online messageboard.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=RRR3]Anthony Parker had a prime? :roll:[/QUOTE]
:roll:
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
the players that are capable of scoring 30ppg are in the nba. they want better competition
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
Derrick Rose isn't even that good. He can't shoot and he can't pass and he's slow and he has no hops.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
You can't take a player's stats in international competiton and say he would suck in Euroleague.It's out of context.
Most of the players have average stats in FIBA competitions.It's quite normal for a stacked team like USA. Let's look at Original Dream Team :
Barkley [B]18 ppg [B]4 rpg[/B][/B]
Bird [B]8.4 ppg 3.8 rpg[/B]
Drexler [B]10.5 ppg[/B]
Ewing [B]9.5 ppg 5.3 rpg[/B]
Magic [B]8 ppg 5.5 apg[/B]
Jordan [B]14.9 ppg [/B]
Malone [B]13.0 5.3 rpg[/B]
Pippen [B] 9.0 ppg[/B]
D-Rob [B]9.0 ppg 4.1 rpg[/B]
With same logic, even these all time greats would fail in euroleague.:rolleyes:
[IMG]http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/215yc2.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague][B]First of all, that was prime Anthony Parker.[/B]
[/QUOTE]
:roll:
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague][B]First of all, that was prime Anthony Parker.[/B]
Second of all, the Euroleague was much weaker then than it is now.
Third, yes, prime Anthony Parker would definitely be a much better Euroleague player than current Derrick Rose. Without any question.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Ucantbserious/lmao2.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Ucantbserious/d86dd609358ccbae4446914973b07d92-1.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Ucantbserious/8c9b528ec2af93eac4bec340876893a6-1.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
The leading scorer in euroleague in 2011 was a D-Leaguer.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=eliteballer]The leading scorer in euroleague in 2011 was a D-Leaguer.[/QUOTE]
A D-Leaguer who slipped under the radar because he is obviously better than the #1 draft pick, MVP, All-Star Derrick Rose.
All of you NBA only fans need to stop your lies.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Euroleague]No player on Earth would average 30 in the Euroleague. You have absolutely zero general basketball knowledge if you believe any of those players could average 30 in the Euroleague. Absolutely zero general basketball knowledge.[/QUOTE]
I like how you repeated for emphasis.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
Most of you can laugh at the OP but somewhere in his posts he makes a legit claim that's getting lost, or he isn't explaning himself properly.
The 'style' of play in the Euroleague is different than it is here in the States. Not only is their style of play different, the rules are different.
Sure, Americans are superior athletes and are better in some areas of the game. But these areas aren't necessarily the things that would make them stand out in their style of play and rules. And the same can be said vice versa.
Anthony Parker may have been an MVP there, and that doesn't translate into his game in the NBA because that style of play doesn't prevail as much here. And YES everybody has their 'prime'. You, myself, the person in the D-league, person at your local gym, NBA, etc.etc we all have our prime. His just happened to be while he was overseas, not that he would've been better than Tmac if he'd played here, but he still had a prime, and his style at his very best was obviously suited for the international style of play.
People need to stop trying to transpose eras, leagues, styles so much, it's something that most people do here. Situations are different, style of playing are different, rules are different etc.etc. you can't just root a player and believe that said player would perform as good (or worse) just because. Shit has to be factored in, and the OP did bring up some very valid points, most of which I agree with in regards to Rose's game.
Quick anecdotal story.....
One day I saw some soccer players playing basketball in high school, when some players from the basketball team thought they could school the soccer players. So they challenged them to a game.... and it didn't end up as they had planned.
Sure, the basketball players were putting on an individual skill exhibition. Dunks, fancy cross overs, nice athletic plays but they still LOST!!! Why? because they were basically playing one on one, while the soccer team was playing 'team' ball. They weren't as athletic, they weren't trying to hot dog, they were just sticking to basic fundamental basketball: passing, cutting, setting screens, rotating on defense, boxing out etc.etc. things that apparently the basketball players somehow missed.
And that is very similar to the situation we have here.
Certain styles are better suited for certain styles, people should stop trying to jump on the bandwagon and think for a second before they start trashing the OP every time. The dude does bring up some legit points (although he may not be 100% correct all the time). Most people don't even bother reading his posts, they just automatically get insulted at the crazy notion that we don't completely own the world.
Americans show their arrogance once again.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=Go Getter]
[IMG]http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Ucantbserious/8c9b528ec2af93eac4bec340876893a6-1.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
SMASH! IN A NANOSECOND :lol
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
[QUOTE=andgar923]Most of you can laugh at the OP but somewhere in his posts he makes a legit claim that's getting lost, or he isn't explaning himself properly.
The 'style' of play in the Euroleague is different than it is here in the States. Not only is their style of play different, the rules are different.
Sure, Americans are superior athletes and are better in some areas of the game. But these areas aren't necessarily the things that would make them stand out in their style of play and rules. And the same can be said vice versa.
Anthony Parker may have been an MVP there, and that doesn't translate into his game in the NBA because that style of play doesn't prevail as much here. And YES everybody has their 'prime'. You, myself, the person in the D-league, person at your local gym, NBA, etc.etc we all have our prime. His just happened to be while he was overseas, not that he would've been better than Tmac if he'd played here, but he still had a prime, and his style at his very best was obviously suited for the international style of play.
People need to stop trying to transpose eras, leagues, styles so much, it's something that most people do here. Situations are different, style of playing are different, rules are different etc.etc. you can't just root a player and believe that said player would perform as good (or worse) just because. Shit has to be factored in, and the OP did bring up some very valid points, most of which I agree with in regards to Rose's game.
Quick anecdotal story.....
One day I saw some soccer players playing basketball in high school, when some players from the basketball team thought they could school the soccer players. So they challenged them to a game.... and it didn't end up as they had planned.
Sure, the basketball players were putting on an individual skill exhibition. Dunks, fancy cross overs, nice athletic plays but they still LOST!!! Why? because they were basically playing one on one, while the soccer team was playing 'team' ball. They weren't as athletic, they weren't trying to hot dog, they were just sticking to basic fundamental basketball: passing, cutting, setting screens, rotating on defense, boxing out etc.etc. things that apparently the basketball players somehow missed.
And that is very similar to the situation we have here.
Certain styles are better suited for certain styles, people should stop trying to jump on the bandwagon and think for a second before they start trashing the OP every time. The dude does bring up some legit points (although he may not be 100% correct all the time). Most people don't even bother reading his posts, they just automatically get insulted at the crazy notion that we don't completely own the world.
Americans show their arrogance once again.[/QUOTE]
So why did America win the WC with our "B team?"
American ignorance? We pwn the world in ball....our style has flaws, no doubt, but you can't argue the results.
Didn't USA lead the WC in steals and assists? Did they not come together as a team? Did they not beat teams with "better teamwork?" (more time playing together)
Rose shot poorly through a sample of 12-16 games yet you and the OP disregard 2+ years of 48% shooting....you disregard the style of play the Bulls have and their limited offense/new coach.
Sit down man, if you haven't noticed, you're agreeing with the biggest idiot troll on ISH.
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Re: Derrick Rose's Anemic Stats Against FIBA Competition
Pretty dreadful how this guy hasn't been banned yet.
This forum lets morons like this roam free, and it's just not on anymore. Nothing wrong with letting some garbage slide for site traffic, but when it's every day he's posting some pathetic shit like this, he needs to go. C'mon Jeff, please do something.