Why don't more players catch the ball instead of swatting it on defense?

I was just thinking about how we always see guys swat shots.. or block them in general... but half of the time.. they could of probably just grabbed and held onto the ball and controlled it rather than sending it out of bounds to the other team. Why don't more players just catch the ball? I know super athletic bigs like DJ, McGee and Dwight could easily do this. DeAndre got good this year at swatting it to teammates but why not just catch it?

I understand swatting into the 10th row gets the crowd and team going.. but it's also not a really smart basketball play.

It's hard to catch the ball with one hand, even with huge hands. If you swat it but keep it in play, it puts pressure on the other team to re-group and avoid a 24 second violation.

Getting a block shot itself is hard. I can't even imagine how much harder it is to catch the ball without it being called a goal tend.

[QUOTE=D.J.]It's hard to catch the ball with one hand, even with huge hands. If you swat it but keep it in play, it puts pressure on the other team to re-group and avoid a 24 second violation.[/QUOTE]

I understand why you block a shot... but how rare is it to catch the ball? I've seen it like 10 times in 15 years of viewing the NBA. Like I said.. I know it's not easy but Dwight, McGee and DJ absolutely have the vertical, reach and hands to do this at least once a game. It shouldn't be a super rare play. I understand the timing required... but I'm talking about defense in the post, not on the perimeter on jumpers.

[QUOTE=Kensta]Getting a block shot itself is hard. I can't even imagine how much harder it is to catch the ball without it being called a goal tend.[/QUOTE]

Dwight averaged 5.5 blocks vs the Hawks in the playoffs. You don't think he could of caught 1 or 2 of those instead of swatting them into the 5th row? It's just something I noticed. If you can get up high enough to smother a shot and swat it really hard... why can't you grab it? Not saying it's easy... but I was wondering why it's such a rare play in basketball, especially for bigmen.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Dwight averaged 5.5 blocks vs the Hawks in the playoffs. You don't think he could of caught 1 or 2 of those instead of swatting them into the 5th row? It's just something I noticed. If you can get up high enough to smother a shot and swat it really hard... why can't you grab it? Not saying it's easy... but I was wondering why it's such a rare play in basketball, especially for bigmen.[/QUOTE]


It's extremely hard to time it. Anyone with good athleticism and a minimal amount of timing can block a shot. But to actually catch it requires insane timing and coordination. Very few can do it and if it does happen, it's usually by dumb luck.

I do it all the time with MJ in 2K lol, I double a big guy when he's on the block

But I think its because:
A) Its cooler to smash the shit out of the ball
B) Timing has to be absolutely perfect, have to be ahead of the ball on its way up
C) Not many players have the ability to block shots, let alone time it perfect
D) Its cooler to smash the shit out of the ball.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qjLYrwQeOI[/url]


Simply put it is tough to do.

[QUOTE=Crown&Coke]I do it all the time with MJ in 2K lol, I double a big guy when he's on the block

But I think its because:
A) Its cooler to smash the shit out of the ball
B) Timing has to be absolutely perfect, have to be ahead of the ball on its way up
C) Not many players have the ability to block shots, let alone time it perfect
D) Its cooler to smash the shit out of the ball.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qjLYrwQeOI[/url]


Simply put it is tough to do.[/QUOTE]

:bowdown: . Rodman did it a few times I remember also. I'm sure the great Manute Bol could do it without jumping :lol .

[quote]It's extremely hard to time it. Anyone with good athleticism and a minimal amount of timing can block a shot. But to actually catch it requires insane timing and coordination. Very few can do it and if it does happen, it's usually by dumb luck.[/quote]

:applause:


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=2m20s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpufnh4fmRk#t=2m20s[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXVS2MOh3_E#t=8m7s"] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXVS2MOh3_E#t=8m7s[/URL]

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I was just thinking about how we always see guys swat shots.. or block them in general... but half of the time.. they could of probably just grabbed and held onto the ball and controlled it rather than sending it out of bounds to the other team. Why don't more players just catch the ball? I know super athletic bigs like DJ, McGee and Dwight could easily do this. DeAndre got good this year at swatting it to teammates but why not just catch it?

I understand swatting into the 10th row gets the crowd and team going.. but it's also not a really smart basketball play.[/QUOTE]

Dwight Howard, for one, has specifically been told by people that he should try to keep his blocks inbounds rather than spiking the ball out of bounds, but swatting it out of bounds is something he deliberately does and is not going to change:

[quote]No player in the NBA blocks more shots than Dwight Howard, but there

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Dwight Howard, for one, has specifically been told by people that he should try to keep his blocks inbounds rather than spiking the ball out of bounds, but swatting it out of bounds is something he deliberately does and is not going to change:



So... grabbing the ball to keep it in-bounds and gain possession for your team, essentially turning the other team's attempted shot into a turnover is showing off, but swatting a shot out of bounds isn't.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]

:applause: Great post dude. I agree 100 percent with you as well as that article clip.

the first time is fine. sends a nice message to the other team and the ball shooter.

the 2nd and subsequent times seems excessive. but then again not all shots are the same and not all shot blocks are timed right. most of the time its a finger block and thats all is needed to send it to the 5th row.

and if you can get a full hand on the ball, its likely you're either a tall ass player with long ass arm like dikembe or someone who has insane leaping ability who can only get a full hand because of their athleticism and arms are in the swatting motion.

[QUOTE=DuMa]the first time is fine. sends a nice message to the other team and the ball shooter.

the 2nd and subsequent times seems excessive. but then again not all shots are the same and not all shot blocks are timed right. most of the time its a finger block and thats all is needed to send it to the 5th row.

and if you can get a full hand on the ball, its likely you're either a tall ass player with long ass arm like dikembe or someone who has insane leaping ability who can only get a full hand because of their athleticism and arms are in the swatting motion.[/QUOTE]

McGee, Dwight, DJ and even Bynum all fit into these categories. Best wingspans, standing reaches and even verticals for bigmen (besides Bynum). They definitely should be able to catch 1 a game.

i have no doubt they can do it but half the battle is also the timing and the arc of the ball shooter's shot. today's NBA players dont put up garbage shots.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]McGee, Dwight, DJ and even Bynum all fit into these categories. Best wingspans, standing reaches and even verticals for bigmen (besides Bynum). They definitely should be able to catch 1 a game.[/QUOTE]

Um, do you know what overstatment means?

Are you talking about DJ Mbenga? who has averaged 1.0 blocks only once in his career?

How about JaVale McGee? or Dwight? They averaged 2.4 last year. So to reach your ridiculous one snatch-block per game means that 42% of their blocks should be the hardest type of block to get.

How come guys never do 360 between the legs dunks in games either? We should see like 20 of those every week.

Catching a blocked shot is extremely difficult, I doubt we'll ever see much of that. A lot of players swat the ball, when they could keep it in play, though. I guess it's because

A. They still get rewarded with a block in the box score, whether they retain possession, or not.
B. Coaches don't yell at them for it.
C. They don't care that it's more effective to retain possession, and just want to end up on a highlight reel/intimidate their opponent.
D. They're dumb, and it never really occurred to them that it's better to retain possession, than give the other team a second shot.

It's really hard to do (talking as someone who does it once in a while when playing in our rec league, I'm 6'9").

However, swatting the shit out of it DOES have a psychological effect regardless of what that stupid quote said. Even if it doesn't demoralize the other team (it usually does), it definitely provides a boost of morale for your own team.

[QUOTE=Droid101]It's really hard to do (talking as someone who does it once in a while when playing in our rec league, I'm 6'9").

However, swatting the shit out of it DOES have a psychological effect regardless of what that stupid quote said. Even if it doesn't demoralize the other team (it usually does), it definitely provides a boost of morale for your own team.[/QUOTE]

It does have a psychological effect for sure but it messes with their head just as much to clown them and just catch the ball. I know it's obviously harder than blocking a shot... but people make it sound like it's impossible. I've done it to players bigger than me and I have an average vertical and I'm only 5'11. If you're lengthy, have good coordination and have good athleticism it should be more frequent than it is. I really think it's a mindset issue. I mean if players in the NFL can block field goal attempts... NBA players can snatch shots out of the air. These are world class athletes we are talking about.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Um, do you know what overstatment means?

Are you talking about DJ Mbenga? who has averaged 1.0 blocks only once in his career?

How about JaVale McGee? or Dwight? They averaged 2.4 last year. So to reach your ridiculous one snatch-block per game means that 42% of their blocks should be the hardest type of block to get.

How come guys never do 360 between the legs dunks in games either? We should see like 20 of those every week.[/QUOTE]

I think you're reading too much into it. I specifically listed those players because they are great athletic shotblockers with amazing wingspans. I'm not saying everyone can or should do it. I'm specifically talking about gifted, shotblocking bigs.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I think you're reading too much into it. I specifically listed those players because they are great athletic shotblockers with amazing wingspans. I'm not saying everyone can or should do it. I'm specifically talking about gifted, shotblocking bigs.[/QUOTE]

I think I'm reading exactly the right amount into. And I think you've been watching too many video games.

Let me break it down slower for you.

Talking specifically about gifted shotblocking bigs, TWO specific ones actually: Dwight Howard and JaVale McGee.

Last season Dwight Howard averaged [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html"]2.4 blocks a game.[/URL].
Javale also average [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html"]2.4 blocks a game[/URL]

That makes it easy. You're saying these are two types of players who should average at least one catchblock per game. This, when they are not even getting 3 blocks a game--including barely-got-em-end-of-the-fingertips type blocks-- you want them to get 82 once-in-a-blue-moon type blocks.

1 divided 2.4 is .42 or 42%. So you think that 42% of their blocks should be a catch blocks because that is what you are asking. It would require nearly half their blocks to be that spectacular.

It's like asking how come great scorers don't hit one falling out of the corner three per game? It's stuff that you can do routinely in video games, but not in the NBA.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]I think I'm reading exactly the right amount into. And I think you've been watching too many video games.

Let me break it down slower for you.

Talking specifically about gifted shotblocking bigs, TWO specific ones actually: Dwight Howard and JaVale McGee.

Last season Dwight Howard averaged [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howardw01.html"]2.4 blocks a game.[/URL].
Javale also average [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgeeja01.html"]2.4 blocks a game[/URL]

That makes it easy. You're saying these are two types of players who should average at least one catchblock per game. This, when they are not even getting 3 blocks a game--including barely-got-em-end-of-the-fingertips type blocks-- you want them to get 82 once-in-a-blue-moon type blocks.

1 divided 2.4 is .42 or 42%. So you think that 42% of their blocks should be a catch blocks because that is what you are asking. It would require nearly half their blocks to be that spectacular.

It's like asking how come great scorers don't hit one falling out of the corner three per game? It's stuff that you can do routinely in video games, but not in the NBA.[/QUOTE]

First off.. you can't do this in a video game that I'm aware of.. so stop acting like an ignorant tard with a stick up his ass. Secondly... let's just say one every couple games then? You're running way too hard with the details of my post when it was a general, vague question. I just said at least 1 a game as an idea, not something set in stone. Let's say one every few games then. Nonetheless why don't we see it more? Instead of berating me like a little di** when you don't know me.. how about you just give an opinion on the topic at hand. We have enough condescending pricks on ISH and don't need another.

I gave specific parameters to the idea of catch blocks such as... post players, inside the paint, great athleticism, great wingspans. It's not like I'm suggesting this on jumpshots etc.. or anything ridiculous. I think this can be done a lot more than players do it. Obviously if they skin the ball with their fingers it's not going to be something they can catch.. SMH.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPOAeJZV0W0[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih11QDHSOvk[/url]

DJ could of caught both of these. If you can block a shot with your elbow or forearm.. you can catch it. Common sense.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phJGd1ksND4&feature=related[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo0gtwLpZz4&feature=related[/url]

Look carefully at these Dwight blocks. Both of them are clearly with the palm of his hand not his fingertips. It would require less energy and timing to go straight up and catch with 1 or 2 hands.. than it would to swat it that hard.

These are just 4 examples. I can post 20 more at least.

Here's the proper way for a 7 footer to block a shot. Props to McGee.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dziVjMKgi4w[/url]

:applause:

Good news Clippersfan: You won't have to worry about Blake Griffin swatting anything away as he can't block a shot worth a crap or play any defense for that matter come to think of it.

Go to the gym, and try to catch the ball, hell even try to get more than ONE block.
When you leave you will have your answer.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Good news Clippersfan: You won't have to worry about Blake Griffin swatting anything away as he can't block a shot worth a crap or play any defense for that matter come to think of it.[/QUOTE]

He's one of the best man defenders for his size as proven by stats. He's actually 1st among PF's and C's in isolation and perimeter scoring attempts as he only allows a basket in 30 percent of these situations. Keep believing what the general population does though and staying misinformed. Yes Blake is a poor interior defender and shotblocker though. Good news for ClippersFANS is that he was just a rookie. You mad?

[QUOTE=zay_24]Go to the gym, and try to catch the ball, hell even try to get more than ONE block.
When you leave you will have your answer.[/QUOTE]

I'm not a 7 footer with elite athleticism and wingspan. Comparing apples to oranges asking an average Joe to go replicate what elite athletes can do. These guys have been playing basketball their entire lives too. Getting coached to read the offense. Me saying 1 a game was just a loose example and clearly unrealistic. Even one every 4 or 5 games though? Why isn't that realistic?

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]He's one of the best man defenders for his size as proven by stats. He's actually 1st among PF's and C's in isolation and perimeter scoring attempts as he only allows a basket in 30 percent of these situations. Keep believing what the general population does though and staying misinformed.[B] Yes Blake is a poor interior defender[/B] and shotblocker though. Good news for ClippersFANS is that he was just a rookie. You mad?[/QUOTE]

So he's POOR at the most IMPORTANT DEFENSIVE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A BIG MAN...way to make my point for me, thank you.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I'm not a 7 footer with elite athleticism and wingspan. Comparing apples to oranges asking an average Joe to go replicate what elite athletes can do. These guys have been playing basketball their entire lives too. Getting coached to read the offense. Me saying 1 a game was just a loose example and clearly unrealistic. Even one every 4 or 5 games though? Why isn't that realistic?[/QUOTE]
Play against average joes on your level, around the same height, you still would see why. Blocking shots is NOT easy.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]So he's POOR at the most IMPORTANT DEFENSIVE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A BIG MAN...way to make my point for me, thank you.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you! Good thing he's a rookie huh??

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]First off.. you can't do this in a video game that I'm aware of.. so stop acting like an ignorant tard with a stick up his ass. Secondly... let's just say one every couple games then? You're running way too hard with the details of my post when it was a general, vague question. I just said at least 1 a game as an idea, not something set in stone. Let's say one every few games then. Nonetheless why don't we see it more? Instead of berating me like a little di** when you don't know me.. how about you just give an opinion on the topic at hand. We have enough condescending pricks on ISH and don't need another.

I gave specific parameters to the idea of catch blocks such as... post players, inside the paint, great athleticism, great wingspans. It's not like I'm suggesting this on jumpshots etc.. or anything ridiculous. I think this can be done a lot more than players do it. Obviously if they skin the ball with their fingers it's not going to be something they can catch.. SMH.[/QUOTE]

Let me just turn your first sentence into a link.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQO8DGmsyo&feature=related"]First off.. you can't do this in a video game that I'm aware of.. so stop acting like an ignorant tard with a stick up his ass.[/URL]


Yes, you said one a game as an idea. A very poorly thought out idea.
No, I don't know you, but I have a pretty good idea that you have a terrible sense of proportion. Condescending prick huh? How about you stop whining and admit you made an overstatement. You know, like a grown up. We could use more grown-ups around here as well.

Again as to your evidence, see above about your sense of proportion. You quoting 25 examples. There are about 12000 blocks per year in the NBA. The fact that you are finding so few proves my point not yours.

Also I see that DJ is DeAndre Jordan, not Mbenga, my point still holds though.

[QUOTE=zay_24]Play against average joes on your level, around the same height, you still would see why. Blocking shots is NOT easy.[/QUOTE]

Thing is these guys aren't equals. You honestly think the slashing guards and wing players.. or even undersized bigs are equal to DJ, McGee, Dwight Howard and Bynum? NO WAY. These guys have top 20 all time NBA wingspans... great vertical leaps and have been blocking shots at a high level since junior high probably. Blocked shots rarely happen on the perimeter. They happen in the post on post moves and slashes to the rim.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I agree with you! Good thing he's a rookie huh??[/QUOTE]

Players that become anything significant defensively already have those instincts coming into the league. Blake Griffin will never have more then an average impact defensively and that's the main reason he will never touch someone like Duncan and KG. He will never be as good offensively as Dirk, Mchale, Barkley, or Malone. You need to push this guys nuts off your face every once and awhile and breathe in the fresh air.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]Let me just turn your first sentence into a link.
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQO8DGmsyo&feature=related"]First off.. you can't do this in a video game that I'm aware of.. so stop acting like an ignorant tard with a stick up his ass.[/URL]


Yes, you said one a game as an idea. A very poorly thought out idea.
No, I don't know you, but I have a pretty good idea that you have a terrible sense of proportion. Condescending prick huh? How about you stop whining and admit you made an overstatement. You know, like a grown up. We could use more grown-ups around here as well.

Again as to your evidence, see above about your sense of proportion. You quoting 25 examples. There are about 12000 blocks per year in the NBA. The fact that you are finding so few proves my point not yours.

Also I see that DJ is DeAndre Jordan, not Mbenga, my point still holds though.[/QUOTE]

I just don't think you contributed anything to this thread. Instead of answering the question... you made a point of essentially how unrealistic and stupid my post is. I already admitted my example was vague and implied it may of been a stretch. I didn't need a full blown mathematical breakdown buddy. You were condescending from the first sentence even though you weren't under fire. Based on how you reacted defensively to my OP I'd think I was talking to Dwight himself.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]Players that become anything significant defensively already have those instincts coming into the league. Blake Griffin will never have more then an average impact defensively and that's the main reason he will never touch someone like Duncan and KG. He will never be as good offensively as Dirk, Mchale, Barkley, or Malone. You need to push this guys nuts off your face every once and awhile and breathe in the fresh air.[/QUOTE]

I agree again! See we have a lot in common. Blake will likely be an average or slightly above average defender at best. A positional impact defender like Karl Malone and never a shotblocker. What does that mean? Your out of place trolling of Blake is cute. As for how good he will be... we don't know that. He put up 22.5, 12 and 4 while being a lot more raw than any of the guys you listed. None of those guys besides Duncan put up Blake's stats until what their 3rd seasons?

McHale didn't put up 20 ppg until his 6th season when he was 28 :lol . His career best was 26 ppg and dropped off bigtime to 22 the next season. Sure Blake won't be as polished as him probably but the only player he probably CAN'T surpass offensively is Malone and maybe Barkley. Why are you so caught up on Blake though in a thread about catching blocked shots???

[QUOTE=zay_24]Play against average joes on your level, around the same height, you still would see why. Blocking shots is NOT easy.[/QUOTE]

The main reason this type of block doesn't happen more often, is most of the time when you leave your feet you don't have enough info to think this type of block is possible. Mostly it's a one-handed snatch. Well if you mess up the timing of that you could easily miss the block or mess up the catch and give the ball right back.

Even on the examples you give, once you're moving your arm forward you're going to swat it, not grab it. To do it correctly you have to have your arm move backwards in the direction of the balls momemtum, this slows it down and makes it catchable. Sometimes you time it right you could do it with your arm straight up. That usually requires perfect timing. The one time I ever did a catch block (one hand on and then swung my other hand around and took it off his hand) I had no idea it possible on the way up. It was aslo against a player new to basketball A. thought I was giving him the lane. B laid the ball right out in the open.

[QUOTE=KevinNYC]The main reason this type of block doesn't happen more often, is most of the time when you leave your feet you don't have enough info to think this type of block is possible. Mostly it's a one-handed snatch. Well if you mess up the timing of that you could easily miss the block or mess up the catch and give the ball right back.

Even on the examples you give, once you're moving your arm forward you're going to swat it, not grab it. To do it correctly you have to have your arm move backwards in the direction of the balls momemtum, this slows it down and makes it catchable. Sometimes you time it right you could do it with your arm straight up. That usually requires perfect timing. The one time I ever did a catch block (one hand on and then swung my other hand around and took it off his hand) I had no idea it possible on the way up. It was aslo against a player new to basketball A. thought I was giving him the lane. B laid the ball right out in the open.[/QUOTE]

It's no different than an NFL player catching a football traveling at much greater speeds with 1 hand. In fact.. that's a hell of a lot harder than what I'm suggesting. How coordinated do you really have to be? Players intercept passes all the time. This is A LOT more possible than you guys are making it sound. Players just have the wrong mindset.

If an NFL player can soar off balance... 3 feet into the air... and make a 1 handed grab ala Randy Moss... while the ball is traveling 70 miles per hour... why can't an NBA player as gifted as the ones I specified.. catch a bigger object (easier to target) traveling MUCH slower... once in a while? If Blake Griffin can catch 50 foot alley oop bullet passes... Dwight has the coordination to block more shots by grabbing them. This isn't some complex formula.

[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I agree again! See we have a lot in common. Blake will likely be an average or slightly above average defender at best. A positional impact defender like Karl Malone and never a shotblocker. What does that mean? Your out of place trolling of Blake is cute. As for how good he will be... we don't know that. He put up 22.5, 12 and 4 while being a lot more raw than any of the guys you listed. None of those guys besides Duncan put up Blake's stats until what their 3rd seasons?

McHale didn't put up 20 ppg until his 6th season when he was 28 :lol . His career best was 26 ppg and dropped off bigtime to 22 the next season. Sure Blake won't be as polished as him probably but the only player he probably CAN'T surpass offensively is Malone and maybe Barkley. Why are you so caught up on Blake though in a thread about catching blocked shots???[/QUOTE]

Because everything you say is idiotic and pointless. Even this thread...why don't players catch the ball instead of swatting it away...I don't know maybe because that's that not god damn easy? You think it has never come across players minds to try to catch the ball instead of swat it away? Also don't don't compare future Blake Griffin's defense to Karl Malone's please...that's insulting to Karl. Maybe try Larry Johnson as that would be more appropriate