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this is a fact.
Kevin Garnett....
brb getting bounced out of the 1st round for 7 straight post-season appearances
brb missing the playoffs for 3 straight seasons during my prime
brb lack of killer instinct and can't close out games like dirk
brb being extremely dependent on my teammates to win
brb couldn't guard Dirk to save my life in the 2002 playoffs
brb picking on a bunch of 6'0 euros and running away from black guys.
Dirk > KG
I understand ignorance is bliss to you, but you should really study this game more, you are in for amazing discoveries! :pimp:
[QUOTE=Friday]
Kevin Garnett....
brb getting bounced out of the 1st round for 7 straight post-season appearances
brb missing the playoffs for 3 straight seasons during my prime
brb lack of killer instinct and can't close out games like dirk
brb being extremely dependent on my teammates to win
[/QUOTE]
not to mention--
his team has gone 40-20(67% winning %) without him in the last 4 yrs.
his team was one game away from making the ECF Finals without him in 09
his TS% in the post-season is a horrific 51%.
he was the [B]third[/B] best player on his own team for the 08 Finals.
the celtics have continued to be contenders even with his massive decline
overrated if you ask me. i'll take dirk.
[IMG]http://blog.wtfconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/trololol.gif[/IMG]
Pretty obvious
[QUOTE=King24]not to mention--
his team has gone 40-20(67% winning %) without him in the last 4 yrs.
his team was one game away from making the ECF Finals without him in 09
his TS% in the post-season is a horrific 51%.
he was the [B]third[/B] best player on his own team for the 08 Finals.
the celtics have continued to be contenders even with his massive decline
overrated if you ask me. i'll take dirk.[/QUOTE]
The brain's a funny thing. It actually reaches a conclusion and then tries to find evidence to support that conclusion, blinding itself to facts that stand in the way.
That's how you rate how stoopid someone is: how retarded the evidence they find is.
This one is brilliant:
"his team was one game away from making the ECF Finals without him in 09"
However, the year before they won the championship and the year after they made it game 7 of the Finals, leading at 3 quarter time... WITH him. All this proves is how much impact he made when he wasn't there.
This one ain't bad either:
"he was the [B]third[/B] best player on his own team for the 08 Finals."
Arguably. Of course, for their playoff run, he was not only the leading rebounder and the defensive anchor and general, he was the leading scorer (above Finals MVP Paul Pierce!)
Even the first one:
"his team has gone 40-20(67% winning %) without him in the last 4 yrs."
Wow, his first season with the team they went 66-16. So you're saying.. they're far worse without him? That's a huge shock!
Before KG on the Celtics, they went:
24-58
First year of KG on the Celtics, they went:
66-16
The biggest turnaround in NBA history.
But hey, keep looking for incorrect facts to support your argument, that's the spirit!
incorrect facts? everything I said is 100% truth. why u so mad?
[QUOTE]However, the year before they won the championship and the year after they made it game 7 of the Finals, leading at 3 quarter time... WITH him. All this proves is how much impact he made when he wasn't there[/QUOTE]
not really. he was a role-player at that point. hell, he wasn't even the best player on his own team. rondo was. the fact is his team was 1 game away from the ECF without his overrated ass, and could have potentially mad the finals very easily.
[QUOTE]Arguably.[/QUOTE]
not at all. both pierce and allen were easily better.
[QUOTE]Wow, his first season with the team they went 66-16. So you're saying.. they're far worse without him? That's a huge shock![/QUOTE]
they went 9-2 without KG with a 9+ point differential in 2008.:oldlol:
overall they've gone 40-20 without him.
you'd think they'd drop off more with such a "great" player, but nope. :oldlol:
[QUOTE]
Before KG on the Celtics, they went:
24-58
First year of KG on the Celtics, they went:
66-16
The biggest turnaround in NBA history[/QUOTE].
i like how you fail to acknowledge that that turn-around had far more factors than just kg. pierce getting healthy again? getting freaking ray allen? addition of rondo? thibs? yeah, it was all KG. that's why they went 9-2 without him that year, and have been 40-20 the last 4 years. :lol
[QUOTE=Friday]
brb choking a 2-0 lead in the finals
brb never playing a lick of defense in my life
brb forgot to close out the warriors in the first round, MVP:bowdown:
brb my team put on one of the best 3pt shooting performances of all time this year
brb tyson chandler saved my life
[/quote]
Fixed. I don't actually like hating on Dirk at all, but KG is totally on a whole other level.
I gotta say peak value wise I will take KG over Dirk. And on a GOAT list as of now, I will take KG. Dirk is a legend no doubt and redefined the PF spot. KG is a legend and redefined the PF. What's funny is that both looked like they were going to redefine the SF spot cause both early on in their careers played plenty if not mostly SF. I feel they are the main two guys responsible for getting the upcoming 7 footers behind them wanting to be perimeter players or SF's.
Both also have a ring. The year Boston won the ring, KG could have easily been L MVP. Now as a great number one scoring option, I would take Dirk over KG. But KG had enough of a killer instinct and ability to qualify as a Batman as well. But it's the other facets of the game where KG pulls ahead. At one time, KG was the best rebounder and most versatile defender in the NBA at the same time. He was also the best passing big in the L as well along with it., In my opinion KG is the most complete PF of all time. He great to very good in all areas of the game and added freak athletic ability to it. Barkley is right there, I just think the defense it what pulls KG ahead.
But GOAT wise, Dirk still has a shot to pull past KG. KG is little past his prime, while Dirk is still in his. Dirk has been very durable and his game is built to last. KG is still an All Star caliber big man, but I feel these knee injuries in the last couple of years slowed him. Dirk can end up with at least 27,000 points and who knows another ring or two. If Dirk does those things, he might get to number two on a GOAT list possibly.
I still have KG over Dirk all time the way people rank here. I will probably have Dirk higher when its all said and done, but it depends on what Dirk does over the next 2 or 3 years...
Very close either way. Hilarious listening to people saying "fact" or that one of these guys is definitely better/above the other. Just silly.
I like how people try and make it KG>Dirk and if you say otherwise you're trolling. You can make an argument either way for both of them. That said, I'll take Dirk Nowitzki thank you. 50 wins every year, a regular season and finals MVP and a reliable go-to clutch player. He's also a good defender contrary to conventional wisdom. It also doesn't hurt his case that he's outperformed KG head-to-head during his career.
Dirk is better at clutch but I take KG overall. He can play well at both ends while Dirk is allegic on defense.
Dirk > Garnett.
Garnett is a special player.One of the best all around players. But Dirk is as special as Garnett as well. He is 7 footer with one of the best shooting skill ever.
Garnett does a lot of things better than Dirk..but what dirk does is more special.He has been a great leader,clutch player, better scorer.
What i didn't like about Garnett, he has never been as dominant as his stats shows.Especially on offense.He has been second tier offensive player next to guys like Duncan,Barkley,Malone,Nowitzki.
His defense certainly better than Nowitzki's and many others but not quite as great as hyped.But he was versatile and intense for sure.
Kinda Lebron vs Kobe situation between two.It's ironic he did same with leaving his franchise and joining other stars to get a ring.
Yeah, KG's kind of an overrated scorer in my opinion. The fact that his highest scoring game in the playoffs is 35 or something like that and he's rarely gotten above 30 underscores my point. Like, is he really that much better at scoring than Chris Bosh? KG had a back-to-the-basket game, but it more or less functioned as a face-up game IMO because he rarely backed his man down and usually just turned around and hit a fade-away in the same place as if he had just faced-up in the first place. He had something of a perimeter game, but that was more of a gimmick IMO than a real effective weapon. He was good for a 7 footer, but it wasn't like he was in the same league as the elite scoring shooting guards and small forwards.
I like KG's game a lot. He's an absolutely excellent team defender, good rebounder for his position, absolute money from midrange, and he's one of the better passing big men of the past decade. Perfect second best player on a contender. I just don't get why people have pretended his whole career that he's also an elite scorer.
[QUOTE=rodman91]Dirk > Garnett.
Garnett is a special player.One of the best all around players. But Dirk is as special as Garnett as well. He is 7 footer with one of the best shooting skill ever.
Garnett does a lot of things better than Dirk..but what dirk does is more special.He has been a great leader,clutch player, better scorer.
What i didn't like about Garnett, he has never been as dominant as his stats shows.Especially on offense.He has been second tier offensive player next to guys like Duncan,Barkley,Malone,Nowitzki.
His defense arguably better than Nowitzki's and many others but not quite as great as hyped.But he was versatile and intense for sure.
Kinda Lebron vs Kobe situation between two.It's ironic he did same with leaving his franchise and joining other stars to get a ring.[/QUOTE]
KG's defense was arguably better? :confusedshrug:
Here are two issues that I have always had with KG.
1. He is extremely dependent on his teammates and on the scheme
2. He never elevated his play in the post-season especially compared to Dirk.
Garnett's best post-season wouldn't even be top 3 to Dirk. Dirk's 06, 09, and 11's were better post-season runs than any post-season run KG had.
Garnett is not the type of defensive anchor that a David Robinson, Dwight Howard, Alonzo Mourning, etc. were. Like Dirk, he actually needed some sort of defensive big man behind him. It's not like KG automatically turns poor defensive teams into elite ones like Robinson and Howard were capable of doing. Those T'Wolves team were never great defensively outside of the 03-04 season when KG won the MVP, they were never top 10 in team DRating. He is dependent on his teammates and on his team's schemes for that
^^^ totally agree about that. I hate it when the idiots on ESPN talk about KG these days like he's still an incredible defensive force. He's not. What he's really good at is rotating correctly and making smart team defensive plays. That's great, but there are a lot of guys in the league who do that. His post D is pretty good, not elite.
KG never choked like Dirk did in 06 and 07. He was a monster defensively(:oldlol: @ Dirk ever getting a DPOY) a way better rebounder and passer.
[QUOTE=eliteballer]KG never choked like Dirk did in 06 and 07. He was a monster defensively(:oldlol: @ Dirk ever getting a DPOY) a way better rebounder and passer.[/QUOTE]
And KG never stepped up as big as Dirk did in 11. Dirk's 06 performance is pretty much a mirror of what Lebron did in 2011. Both had great playoff runs but were completed negated by their finals performance.
KG has had many many playoff series where he shot under 45%.
[QUOTE=eliteballer]KG never choked like Dirk did in 06 and 07. He was a monster defensively(:oldlol: @ Dirk ever getting a DPOY) a way better rebounder and passer.[/QUOTE]
He's also had like 1 really good playoff game his entire career . . . (that game against the Kings)
Kevin Garnett is incredibly overrated on ISH, a number of people have made the claim that he is a top 20 player of all time:oldlol:
Garnett had a magnificent statistical peak, and was stout defensively, but other than that was unable to make his mark on the league as a first option, and that alone vaults Dirk above him in my view.
This debate will rage on and on though, so I'm not going to go into a big analysis of the subject. Fact is, as a pure basketball player, Garnett does many many things better than Dirk. Better defender, rebounder, passer. However, if I'm starting a franchise, and if I'm taking a guy in a game 7, I take Dirk every time.
Dirk also destroys Garnett in the class department.
[QUOTE=Mr Know It All]Kevin Garnett is incredibly overrated on ISH, a number of people have made the claim that he is a top 20 player of all time:oldlol:
Garnett had a magnificent statistical peak, and was stout defensively, but other than that was unable to make his mark on the league as a first option, and that alone vaults Dirk above him in my view.
This debate will rage on and on though, so I'm not going to go into a big analysis of the subject. Fact is, as a pure basketball player, Garnett does many many things better than Dirk. Better defender, rebounder, passer. However, if I'm starting a franchise, and if I'm taking a guy in a game 7, I take Dirk every time.
Dirk also destroys Garnett in the class department.[/QUOTE]
KG is considered top 10-12 on another site, so this isn't that bad.
[QUOTE=Mr Know It All]Kevin Garnett is incredibly overrated on ISH, a number of people have made the claim that he is a top 20 player of all time:oldlol:
Garnett had a magnificent statistical peak, and was stout defensively, but other than that was unable to make his mark on the league as a first option, and that alone vaults Dirk above him in my view.
This debate will rage on and on though, so I'm not going to go into a big analysis of the subject. Fact is, as a pure basketball player, Garnett does many many things better than Dirk. Better defender, rebounder, passer. However, if I'm starting a franchise, and if I'm taking a guy in a game 7, I take Dirk every time.
Dirk also destroys Garnett in the class department.[/QUOTE]
Who cares about "class" when determining how good a player is at basketball :facepalm ? By that logic, Manute Bol is the GOAT :bowdown: :bowdown:
And name 20 better than KG. Oh wait, you can't. :roll:
[QUOTE=fos]I like how people try and make it KG>Dirk and if you say otherwise you're trolling. You can make an argument either way for both of them. That said, I'll take Dirk Nowitzki thank you. 50 wins every year, a regular season and finals MVP and a reliable go-to clutch player. He's also a good defender contrary to conventional wisdom. It also doesn't hurt his case that he's outperformed KG head-to-head during his career.[/QUOTE]
It's OP's style of writing that makes it trolling. How is it not easy to detect?
Lol @ the thread title.
[QUOTE=Inception28]
Garnett is not the type of defensive anchor that a David Robinson, Dwight Howard, Alonzo Mourning, etc. were. Like Dirk, he actually needed some sort of defensive big man behind him. It's not like KG automatically turns poor defensive teams into elite ones like Robinson and Howard were capable of doing. Those T'Wolves team were never great defensively outside of the 03-04 season when KG won the MVP, they were never top 10 in team DRating. He is dependent on his teammates and on his team's schemes for that[/QUOTE]
Defensive schemes and how teams approach defense are on the coach. Flip Sanders has a team now that could be great defensively but he's kind of like D'Antoni. The second KG got a defensive minded coach his team is among the defensive teams ever. And he communicates on defense probably better than any player before him. A communication system that totally kept teams out of the paint. Look at all the dunk videos on DH, Mourning and Duncan. Kobe runs a dunkfest on them because they play defense at the rim. With KG, penetrators weren't getting to the rim. Its a much better team system.
[QUOTE=rodman91]
His defense [B]arguably better than Nowitzki's [/B]and many others but not quite as great as hyped.But he was versatile and intense for sure.
[/QUOTE]
Wow, this is from a guy that has Rodman as a screen-name and avatar. Do you really know what defense is?
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Defensive schemes and how teams approach defense are on the coach. Flip Sanders has a team now that could be great defensively but he's kind of like D'Antoni. The second KG got a defensive minded coach his team is among the defensive teams ever. And he communicates on defense probably better than any player before him. A communication system that totally kept teams out of the paint. Look at all the dunk videos on DH, Mourning and Duncan. Kobe runs a dunkfest on them because they play defense at the rim. With KG, penetrators weren't getting to the rim. Its a much better team system.[/QUOTE]
lol what the ****. communication? how the **** do you even know?
[QUOTE=dee-rose]Fixed. I don't actually like hating on Dirk at all, but KG is totally on a whole other level.[/QUOTE]
Fixed. I don't actually like hating on KG at all, but KG is totally on a whole lower level.
[QUOTE=Friday]lol what the ****. communication? how the **** do you even know?[/QUOTE]
:lol go to a game, watch a game on TV, read the papers, journals and mags.
brb misc?
Dirk is definitely better and has been so since 2005.
Garnett has him on defense and rebounding, dirk is better at everything else.
wow i now realize wat a championship can do to a players ranking and all time status. im gonna be scared when lebron gets his cuz this place is gonna explode with lebron is better than insert top 5 player
[QUOTE=knickswin]^^^ totally agree about that. I hate it when the idiots on ESPN talk about KG these days like he's still an incredible defensive force. He's not. [B]What he's really good at is rotating correctly and making smart team defensive plays.[/B] That's great, but there are a lot of guys in the league who do that. His post D is pretty good, not elite.[/QUOTE]
Um, that's arguably the most important factor in GOOD defense. good defense is stopping your man from getting to his comfort zone and preventing a good shot. it's NOT focusing on steals per game or blocks per game or chasedown blocks or swatting shots into the 3rd row. those are nice [I]sometimes,[/I] but other times it's actually detrimental to winning basketball.
[QUOTE=EricForman]Um, that's arguably the most important factor in GOOD defense. good defense is stopping your man from getting to his comfort zone and preventing a good shot. it's NOT focusing on steals per game or blocks per game or chasedown blocks or swatting shots into the 3rd row. those are nice [I]sometimes,[/I] but other times it's actually detrimental to winning basketball.[/QUOTE]
yeah, but what I think gets understated is that there are quite a few players in the league capable of doing that. You don't have to be that talented to hit your rotations and give timely doubles. I would credit Tom Thibodeau for the Celtics' good defense well before I credited Kevin Garnett.
[QUOTE=bballnoob1192]wow i now realize wat a championship can do to a players ranking and all time status. im gonna be scared when lebron gets his cuz this place is gonna explode with lebron is better than insert top 5 player[/QUOTE]
Lebron will be considered a GOAT candidate once he wins, trust me.
yea but it wont stop the shitstorm of threads of lebron>top 5 player or lebron vs top 5 player if he wins a title
Very close. They have both had long, HOF careers. But i do think KG became a more complete player earlier in his career. By this, I do not mean only versatility because KG in his prime was capable of more things. I mean becoming a complete elite player. KG was above Dirk for most of his career. He matured faster as a player. Early in Dirks career, he was mostly just a jump shooter. He was the better overall scorer, but KG was better at everything else while holding his own in scoring.
But I think Dirk at his ultimate best as we saw this playoffs trumps KG at his ultimate best. Dirk is a player who could take over a game and has that "unstoppable" ability where they can score at will. KG never had this. KG was always critiqued for being a bit too passive. But he never had the ability to become a better offensive player than Dirk. Dirk's scoring ability is elite and comes very natural to him. Not as natural for KG.
I also like the fact Dirk changed up his game later in his career. He was doing his thing with scoring, but his knock was his ability to do much else. While he will never be an elite defender, he has improved upon that a lot. He also improved his offensive arsenal. No more is he purely a jump shooter. He can take it inside and finish. He can pass out of doubles. He can be a leader.
Its not an easy choice. Part of me also believe those Mavs teams back in the day with Nash and Finley would have been better with KG. That team sounds scary with KG. But in terms of absolute peaks, I go with Dirk. And Dirk still has years left in him to play as a elite #1 option. When it s all said and done, I say Dirk will be ahead. But as of now, I go with KG because he was a better player for a longer time, but not by far.
[QUOTE=ihatetimthomas]
But I think Dirk at his ultimate best as we saw this playoffs trumps KG at his ultimate best. Dirk is a player who could take over a game and has that "unstoppable" ability where they can score at will. KG never had this. KG was always critiqued for being a bit too passive. But he never had the ability to become a better offensive player than Dirk. Dirk's scoring ability is elite and comes very natural to him. Not as natural for KG.
[/QUOTE]
Dirk isn't an elite scorer. Never was, never will be: Kobe, AI, Jordan, Wade are part of the elite. The second level of top notch scorers has players like Barkley, Durant, Dominique, Tmac, Bird, Shaq. Dirk doesn't belong there either. He's not the scorer that Mello or Lebron either. Dirk is third teir at best, possible fourth. Never was top three in scoring either. Dirk is great but stop trying to make him things he isn't.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Dirk isn't an elite scorer. Never was, never will be: Kobe, AI, Jordan, Wade are part of the elite. The second level of top notch scorers has players like Barkley, Durant, Dominique, Tmac, Bird, Shaq. Dirk doesn't belong there either. He's not the scorer that Mello or Lebron either. Dirk is third teir at best, possible fourth. Never was top three in scoring either. Dirk is great but stop trying to make him things he isn't.[/QUOTE]
Tmac lebron and durant are/were better scorers than wade
KG had the higher peak. People pull the team record card but Dirk's teams were always stcked, KG's weren't...Put prime KG on all those 50+ win Mavs teams and they'd be like Duncan's Spurs...
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Dirk isn't an elite scorer. Never was, never will be: Kobe, AI, Jordan, Wade are part of the elite. The second level of top notch scorers has players like Barkley, Durant, Dominique, Tmac, Bird, Shaq. Dirk doesn't belong there either. He's not the scorer that Mello or Lebron either. Dirk is third teir at best, possible fourth. Never was top three in scoring either. Dirk is great but stop trying to make him things he isn't.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: