Shawn Kemp; Derrick Coleman; Larry Johnson

[B]These 3 young men ushered in a new era of basketball for the 90s.[/B]


All 3 being drafted in consecutive years. First, Kemp in 89 for the Sonics, Coleman to the Nets in 90 and Johnson by the Hornets in 1991. By the start of the new millennium, these should have been hall of famers were either washed up, out the league or moving from team to team their last few seasons.

Everything started off all so well for them. Some quicker than others (Johnson and Coleman.) They were a new breed of every power forward that you see today. They were all a part of Dream Team II in 1994. They were All-Stars, All-NBA team members and some of the best forwards in the early to mid 1990s.



[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_A3Rar9PD2w4/SAA30x4XtvI/AAAAAAAAALc/lu8FAjgrLfY/s400/kemp_254_901209.jpg[/IMG]
-Kemp was the first of those athletic super forwards that we see today. Throwing it down on anyone in sight. He was 6'10 with a frame had power of Dominique but the agility of Clyde Drexler.


[IMG]http://www.basketusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/derrick-coleman.jpg[/IMG]
-Coleman was one of he first forwards to really put in on the floor, take you outside for a jumper with range and still play close to the basket.


[IMG]http://counterkicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/larry-johnson-grandmama-converse.jpg[/IMG]
-Johnson, was a little of both Coleman and Kemp, but about 5 inches shorter than both. Yet he was much stronger than them and most of his opponents.

By the end of the decade, they had all left their original teams and while Kemp still made one final All-Star appearance in 1998 for the Cavs, his boys Johnson (now for the Knicks) was a shell of his former self but sill came up big with the 4-point play heard round the world. Coleman was on his 3rd team by that point and had probably fallen off the worse of the three, yet stuck around in the league longer than all of them.

Coleman seemed to have the most potential of the three, Johnson was more hyped coming out of college yet Shawn Kemp had the best career out of all of them.



Still, they could have been much, much more. I need to find my NBA Remix VHS that featured all three in music video segments ... memories.

Definitely all players that could have been more than they were. Coleman frankly just fell into the Antoine Walker syndrome...he thought he was a perimeter player and the more years that went on the further away from the basket his game moved. He actually rebounded played good defense before the injuries, but not so much after after defensively and he just became a guy who wanted to shoot jump shots. Injuries or not, he should have been playing more in the post.

Shawn Kemp. This guy is hard to rate. He was an athletic freak which gave him an extreme natural advantage of every single PF of his era, but fundamentally he was not a particularly good player. Defensively he was EXTREMELY PRONE to foul trouble. That's why his mpg are never really low. In 10 of the seasons he played he averaged 4.0PF or near it and led the league in total PF's three times. He could definitely protect the paint at the very least at a "good" rate but he was no excellent defensive player. He is one of the very many reasons Payton shouldn't have won DPOY though as he had Kemp behind him who while still extremely foul prone could protect the paint.

Offensively I don't think he was really anything special. He was most dangerous in the open court as he is one of the greatest finishers ever, period. His post game was never anything anyone really feared. He was never a "go to guy" though he did step up big time vs the bulls that 96 finals, schooling Rodman and everything, but in general and throughout his career You can't rate someone when they were just playing at their peak. Generally he really was just an okay post player and nothing special. It was the athleticism that made him great.

As far as Larry Johnson goes...he's kind the poor man's Charles Barkley of his era. He was good scorer and rebounder before injuries took him down, but frankly LJ was always A PISS POOR DEFENSIVE PLAYER even before his injuries who was lucky to play next to Alonzo Mourning and than Patrick Ewing.

The beginning of the entitlement generation. Too much money too quickly. Most of the stars of that generation including these guys were well past their prime before 30. A big part of why guys like Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, Ewing, Robinson, Stockton, Malone etc. stayed dominant for so long.

Add to the list Kenny Anderson, Vin Baker, Isiah Rider, Jimmy Jackson etc.

But the three you mentioned were the best examples. What great starts. Johnson broke down physically, Coleman mentally and Kemp psychologically, but they all broke down. I'd agree that Coleman seemed the most destined for stardom. It seemed only a matter of time before he, not Kemp joined Barkley and Malone as the games best power forwards.

Perhaps their choices of shoe contracts should have clued us in. Kemp signed with Reebok, thus he had staying power and peaked pretty high, but was never the best. Johnson, a converse star, peaked with the company and faded from the market just as fast. And Coleman...he signed with British Knights. The cycle of bad choices had begun before we even realized it.

Underachievers. I remember the smirk Coleman often wore on his face. Lazy ass. Johnson broke apart. He wore a beard and was a shadow of his former self in those Knick teams. He than disappeared. Kemp great athlete and the best in game dunker I've seen. Drugs are bad for you kids.

Shawn Kemp - The Reignman (a documentary)

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi1fkMUJJ1s&feature=BFa&list=PL03C9A3C4657C4F12&lf=results_main[/url]

Coleman could have been an all time great, but got lazy. Kemp could have been somewhat less great, and also go lazy. LJ wasn't quite on that level, and succumbed to injuries.

Webber belongs in this group as well.

[QUOTE=JohnnySic]Coleman could have been an all time great, but got lazy. Kemp could have been somewhat less great, and also go lazy. LJ wasn't quite on that level, and succumbed to injuries.

Webber belongs in this group as well.[/QUOTE]

All were 1st overall picks except Kemp.

Only Shaq (also 1st pick in 92) managed to have a great career. he was lazy too but his skillset of plowing people and dunking was enough to win 4 titles, win popular votes for over 14 ASGs, and still marketable enough to earn endorsements well past his prime.

lol @ shaq hate.

Yea man I miss the 90s. Whenever I watch those classic 90s games on nbatv I'm like OH remember (that guy!) There was another guy that I was thinking of. I'll have to look up who it was.

Oh yeah, Laphonso Ellis whatever happened to him? Did he get injured or something? I forgot. That dude was a stud for a second. I know his stats don't reflect it but, he was always one of those guys that was just beast mode. I remember I used to live in Illinois and I'd always watch the bulls (cuz every game would be televised) and I'd always be cheering against them (lol), but I remember certain people that just did the Bulls like Damon Stoudamire. I always liked watching Laphonso play.

And if you don't remember dude check this out: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoTGDam-06I[/url] sorry to highjack your thread lol...

-Smak

^LaPhonso Ellis would have been a big star if he never got injured. And I agree that his stats dont tell the story.

If Kemp stayed at the Sonics with GP, I think he might of had a very, very good career.

Also the lockout hurt him, ate too many burgers in those lost months

I remember them all.

I remember Derrick Coleman begging out of games vs the Utah Jazz because he did not want any piece of Karl Malone's thuggery. :oldlol:

I couldn't figure out why he didn't play harder (had all the skills) until much later.

I enjoyed watching Kemp the most of the three, because he did play hard and all-out, but after 1997, he was no longer the same guy. :facepalm

I remember a specific game -- the Sonics vs the Rockets in the regular season, in 1994. The Sonics easily held a 10 point lead until the Rockets stormed back. Kemp had the ball right under the rim once, and Hakeem went up with him, lightly blocking his shot. Then Kemp got it back and gathered himself, and Hakeem went up again, but this time, rejecting it with authority - all the way out to the 3 point land. Kendall Gill got it and swooped down for a dunk over Hakeem, but got called for charging. Rockets won the game. :oldlol: Youtube anyone?

Grandmamma had the best shtick -- too bad that back injury just about wiped out his game and left him on the perimeter chucking shots.

Larry Johnson = Blake Griffin beta version.

[QUOTE=Gotterdammerung]I remember them all.

I remember Derrick Coleman begging out of games vs the Utah Jazz because he did not want any piece of Karl Malone's thuggery. :oldlol:

I couldn't figure out why he didn't play harder (had all the skills) until much later.

[B]I enjoyed watching Kemp the most of the three, because he did play hard and all-out, but after 1997, he was no longer the same guy. [/B]:facepalm

I remember a specific game -- the Sonics vs the Rockets in the regular season, in 1994. The Sonics easily held a 10 point lead until the Rockets stormed back. Kemp had the ball right under the rim once, and Hakeem went up with him, lightly blocking his shot. Then Kemp got it back and gathered himself, and Hakeem went up again, but this time, rejecting it with authority - all the way out to the 3 point land. Kendall Gill got it and swooped down for a dunk over Hakeem, but got called for charging. Rockets won the game. :oldlol: Youtube anyone?

[B]Grandmama had the best shtick -- too bad that back injury just about wiped out his game and left him on the perimeter chucking shots.[/B][/QUOTE]

I think Kemp's drinking became a problem during the 96-97 season. It was frustrating to watch as a Sonics fan. I remember he had the "audacity" to get wasted on powerful shots on whatever alcoholic drinks until the wee hours when the Bulls were in town to play them the next day. MJ did put on a magnificent show that day. Here is the Youtube upload of it: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdHprs15wS4[/url]

And those Grandmama Converse shoe commercials were the shiznit! "THAT WAS A LUCKY SHOT GRANDMA!"

This is the 1st LJ commercial I ever saw (circa 1992):

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwGnE3bnYkA[/url]

Add Glenn Robinson to the list.

Definitely the beginning of the entitlement generation. Bunch of of morons.

[QUOTE=vert48]Add Glenn Robinson to the list.

Definitely the beginning of the entitlement generation. Bunch of of morons.[/QUOTE]

His class (94 draft) was the last draft to have been allowed to sign a lucrative contract before even playing a single minute of an NBA game.

Didn't they institute the new rookie contract for the 95 draft class (3 year at 2-4 mill/year)?

[QUOTE=9512][B]I think Kemp's drinking became a problem during the 96-97 season. It was frustrating to watch as a Sonics fan. I remember he had the "audacity" to get wasted on powerful shots on whatever alcoholic drinks until the wee hours when the Bulls were in town to play them the next day. MJ did put on a magnificent show that day.[/B]

And those Grandmama Converse shoe commercials were the shiznit! "THAT WAS A LUCKY SHOT GRANDMA!"

This is the 1st LJ commercial I ever saw (circa 1992):

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwGnE3bnYkA[/url][/QUOTE]

Pretty sure that's about the time his cocaine problem started to get out of control too.

[QUOTE=9512]And those Grandmama Converse shoe commercials were the shiznit! "THAT WAS A LUCKY SHOT GRANDMA!"

This is the 1st LJ commercial I ever saw (circa 1992):

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwGnE3bnYkA[/url][/QUOTE]:cheers:

[I]Munchkin: Welcome to three-point land!
Grandmamma: I gotta have an inside game! [/I]

The Irony is rich. :oldlol:

All good points....seems like alot of the future stars from the 90's broke down physically, going down with injuries and never returning to prior form......can this be attributed to the physicality of 90's basketball??

[quote=bwink23]All good points....seems like alot of the future stars from the 90's broke down physically, going down with injuries and never returning to prior form......can this be attributed to the physicality of 90's basketball??[/quote]I think it is due to the players having a total lack of commitment to anything resembling a work ethic. Those guys cared more about grabbing their Johnsons and styling after a dunk than working on their games or their fitness.

Take away basketball, and they end up selling crack on the corner.

[QUOTE=vert48]I think it is due to the players having a total lack of commitment to anything resembling a work ethic. Those guys cared more about grabbing their Johnsons and styling after a dunk than working on their games or their fitness.

[B]Take away basketball, and they end up selling crack on the corner.[/B][/QUOTE]

[url]http://hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/1262[/url]

Love LJ, even on the knicks.
It was like watching a soap opera.
Who could ever forgot the imaginary foul and 4 point play.

I didn't forget about LaPhonso Ellis, Baker, Anderson, ect and especially Chris Webber. I was just listing the first of the new age power forwards. The guards I will save for a different thread. Webber was actually birthed from these guys as he came into the league whe they were becoming stars.

Larry Johnson could have been the next Charles Barkley. I still remember his 4 point play in the 1999 NBA playoffs.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xlCbpPN8rs[/url]

If Larry Johnson didn't hurt his back, he would be an all time power forward. The other guys, not so much.

[quote]I remember Derrick Coleman begging out of games vs the Utah Jazz because he did not want any piece of Karl Malone's thuggery.[/quote]

That's the best part of the recent Karl interview where he went off on the Sloan/Jazz parting. He said Coleman was his favorite to play against and Derrick was the most afraid to play him.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]That's the best part of the recent Karl interview where he went off on the Sloan/Jazz parting. He said Coleman was his favorite to play against and Derrick was the most afraid to play him.[/QUOTE]

Probably because Karl epitomized everything Coleman was not. The hardest worker in the history of the game IMO, and I'm a biased TD fan. Guy doesn't get near enough respect these days.

Oh, and he's also the author of what is IMO the greatest statistical game in the history of the NBA: 33 minutes, 21/26 from the field, 19/23, [B]61 points and 18 rebounds. [/B] Take a second to think about how insane those numbers are. Jazz won by 48 points btw, hence the relatively low number of minutes.

Sorry to hijack this thread with some random Karl Malone n*thugging. Carry on.

To this day, I think the best dunk I ever saw was Shawn Kemp in the McDonald's All American game. I would love to see if anyone has video on that to see if it was as good as I remember. He was at the three point line took one step and slammed it. This was in a regular half court set and i remember the lane being somewhat crowded.

[QUOTE]If Larry Johnson didn't hurt his back, he would be an all time power forward. The other guys, not so much.[/QUOTE]
No, Coleman was the really special one. Had a complete inside/outside game and all the skills. At his very short peak he was the most complete 4 I ever saw, better than Barkley, Malone, TD, or KG.

Kemp I'd rank #2 is this group. More of a textbook 4 with freak athleticism, but also some offensive limitations.

Johnson was good, but not quite on that level. A bit of a tweener, lacked height and unlike Barkley didn't have the huge wingspan or freakish athleticism to make up for it.

[QUOTE=Lebron23]Larry Johnson could have been the next Charles Barkley. I still remember his 4 point play in the 1999 NBA playoffs.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xlCbpPN8rs[/url][/QUOTE]

You didn't see him play.

[QUOTE=RonySeikalyFTL]Oh, and he's also the author of what is IMO the greatest statistical game in the history of the NBA: 33 minutes, 21/26 from the field, 19/23, [B]61 points and 18 rebounds. [/B] Take a second to think about how insane those numbers are. Jazz won by 48 points btw, hence the relatively low number of minutes.

Sorry to hijack this thread with some random Karl Malone n*thugging. Carry on.[/QUOTE]

Damn.

[QUOTE=JohnnySic]No, Coleman was the really special one. Had a complete inside/outside game and all the skills. At his very short peak he was the most complete 4 I ever saw, better than Barkley, Malone, TD, or KG.

Kemp I'd rank #2 is this group. More of a textbook 4 with freak athleticism, but also some offensive limitations.

Johnson was good, but not quite on that level. A bit of a tweener, lacked height and unlike Barkley didn't have the huge wingspan or freakish athleticism to make up for it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but LJ had the attitude and work ethic that the others needed. If he hadn't messed up his back and the other two had their same career, LJ would've been the best. He wanted to be the man, worked out like crazy, changed his game, and was tough as hell.

[quote]The hardest worker in the history of the game[/quote]

Stockton worked just as hard. They competed each fall to see who showed up to camp with the lowest % of body fat. LOL!

[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]Yeah but LJ had the attitude and work ethic that the others needed. If he hadn't messed up his back and the other two had their same career, LJ would've been the best. He wanted to be the man, worked out like crazy, changed his game, and was tough as hell.[/QUOTE]

He really could have gone down as one the best ever. I think he tops this list. Most dynamic ofthe bunch. Really was the Lebron style player before Lebron. Not as good obviously but he had a similar style.

Sad story about LJ great hornet. :(

DC was an insanely special player. He could've been an all time great, a legendary player, but he's lazy and didn't seem to care.

[QUOTE]No, Coleman was the really special one. Had a complete inside/outside game and all the skills. At his very short peak he was the most complete 4 I ever saw, better than Barkley, Malone, TD, or KG.

Kemp I'd rank #2 is this group. More of a textbook 4 with freak athleticism, but also some offensive limitations.

Johnson was good, but not quite on that level. A bit of a tweener, lacked height and unlike Barkley didn't have the huge wingspan or freakish athleticism to make up for it.[/QUOTE]

What a ridiculous post all around. Coleman had the skills but he NEVER had the mental aspect, in terms of work ethic and passion for the game.

and LJ didnt have freakish athleticism? uuhh.......................

All three of these guys looked to be the next great PF's on the horizon to join Barkley and Malone. And all three were amongst the premier PF's in the game. Kemp and Coleman really looked liked they were going to redefine the PF position. Kemp to this day is still (well Blake looks like he may have him beat) arguably the most freakish athlete the PF spot has seen. On top of it he had a nice midrange J and he had a very nice handle for a 6'10 PF. Kemp was even pretty damn good on the boards and defense.

Coleman for skill for skill offensively was as complete as any PF ever. At 6'10 he could score from anywhere on the floor. But at the same time he was still a beast on the block. He was an excellent passer and had a very nice handle for a 6'10 PF. DC was a beast on the boards as well.

LJ in my opinion was next in line for that Barkley type undersized PF. He was never as good as Chuck but he was capable of playing SF and PF like Chuck. And LJ had a nice handle like Chuck as well. I do think LJ had more consistent three ball range on his jumper. And both men were beasts on the block. LJ had tremendous footwork on the block. I think LJ had many attributes that Barkley had. It's just that Barkley was the better version.

In any event all three of these guys had HOF type material. But they didn't get to exploit it for a long time. Kemp got to enjoy it the most, but even at 29 or 30 he was already falling off due to other shit. But all three of these gave a look to the future of what was to come at PF. It was really the guys like Webber, KG, Dirk, Duncan, and Sheed who ultimately revolutionized the PF spot and were beasts for very good-great periods of time. But Coleman, Kemp, LJ, and even Mcdyess should have been right there with those five guys along with an aging but still great Malone in the late 90's to 2000s.

I really like Larry Johnson's game from before he got injured.

[QUOTE=knickswin]I really like Larry Johnson's game from before he got injured.[/QUOTE]

I dug LJ's game to big time. He had great handle for PF. He had a great post game as well. He had the midrange game down as well. And he had three point range as well. Was a beast on the boards, especially for a guy 6'6. And he was a freak athlete as well in terms of his combo of power, speed, and hops for a guy 6'6 and 250 pounds. When he had the serious injuries, he played more SF in addition to the PF. LJ was so skilled that he was able to adapt and be a very valuable contributor for those Knick teams. Other than great defense, LJ seemed to have it all in terms for what u look for in a PF. The fact he could swing to SF made him unique.

[QUOTE=ILLsmak]lol @ shaq hate.

Yea man I miss the 90s. Whenever I watch those classic 90s games on nbatv I'm like OH remember (that guy!) There was another guy that I was thinking of. I'll have to look up who it was.

Oh yeah, Laphonso Ellis whatever happened to him? Did he get injured or something? I forgot. That dude was a stud for a second. I know his stats don't reflect it but, he was always one of those guys that was just beast mode. I remember I used to live in Illinois and I'd always watch the bulls (cuz every game would be televised) and I'd always be cheering against them (lol), but I remember certain people that just did the Bulls like Damon Stoudamire. I always liked watching Laphonso play.

And if you don't remember dude check this out: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoTGDam-06I[/url] sorry to highjack your thread lol...

-Smak[/QUOTE]

Ellis had too many injuries, and i heard he was a nut case in the locker room too

probably a little too intense

[QUOTE=bizil]All three of these guys looked to be the next great PF's on the horizon to join Barkley and Malone. And all three were amongst the premier PF's in the game. Kemp and Coleman really looked liked they were going to redefine the PF position. Kemp to this day is still ([B]well Blake looks like he may have him beat[/B]) arguably the most freakish athlete the PF spot has seen. On top of it he had a nice midrange J and he had a very nice handle for a 6'10 PF. Kemp was even pretty damn good on the boards and defense.

Coleman for skill for skill offensively was as complete as any PF ever. At 6'10 he could score from anywhere on the floor. But at the same time he was still a beast on the block. He was an excellent passer and had a very nice handle for a 6'10 PF. DC was a beast on the boards as well.

LJ in my opinion was next in line for that Barkley type undersized PF. He was never as good as Chuck but he was capable of playing SF and PF like Chuck. And LJ had a nice handle like Chuck as well. I do think LJ had more consistent three ball range on his jumper. And both men were beasts on the block. LJ had tremendous footwork on the block. I think LJ had many attributes that Barkley had. It's just that Barkley was the better version.

In any event all three of these guys had HOF type material. But they didn't get to exploit it for a long time. Kemp got to enjoy it the most, but even at 29 or 30 he was already falling off due to other shit. But all three of these gave a look to the future of what was to come at PF. It was really the guys like Webber, KG, Dirk, Duncan, and Sheed who ultimately revolutionized the PF spot and were beasts for very good-great periods of time. But Coleman, Kemp, LJ, and even Mcdyess should have been right there with those five guys along with an aging but still great Malone in the late 90's to 2000s.[/QUOTE]

No, he doesn't have Kemp beat.