Questions on the Put Back Dunk off a Missed Free Throw.

I was watching some MJ and came across this video:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6ziQNSETe4[/url]

Those were some incredible plays, but it also got me thinking: what is the rulebook on this play? Can the offensive player move only after the freethrow has been released? (In some of the videos, it seems like MJ moved before the free throw has been released.)

Why don't more teams try this if they are shooting freethrows behind in the game and there is little time left? Let's say they have two free throws to tie the game with little time left. If the first one is missed, why not try a put back on a free throw for two points in the second shot? You never see that play attempted.

Is it the responsibility of the players on the opposite team to block out the offensive player on the play? If that is the case, why not run screens to get an offensive player an open lane for the put back, especially on extremely poor free throw shooters? (I realize you would not do this on someone like Ray Allen.) The worst case is that they make the freethrow. But if they miss you get an opportunity for a putback.

I've seen Iverson and Barkley do it on a couple of ocassions.
Don't know why it's not incorperated as much, but it is a sick play

[QUOTE=plUto or bUst]I was watching some MJ and came across this video:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6ziQNSETe4[/url]

Those were some incredible plays, but it also got me thinking: what is the rulebook on this play? Can the offensive player move only after the freethrow has been released? (In some of the videos, it seems like MJ moved before the free throw has been released.)

Why don't more teams try this if they are shooting freethrows behind in the game and there is little time left? Let's say they have two free throws to tie the game with little time left. If the first one is missed, why not try a put back on a free throw for two points in the second shot? You never see that play attempted.

Is it the responsibility of the players on the opposite team to block out the offensive player on the play? If that is the case, why not run screens to get an offensive player an open lane for the put back, especially on extremely poor free throw shooters? (I realize you would not do this on someone like Ray Allen.) The worst case is that they make the freethrow. But if they miss you get an opportunity for a putback.[/QUOTE]
1. The offensive player can run as soon as the ball gets released by the shooter, but the shooter has to wait until it hits the rim.
2. Because good coaches make sure that those guards on the perimeter get "blocked out".
3. Only couple of people in the league could get that done.

[QUOTE=SAKOTXA]1. The offensive player can run as soon as the ball gets released by the shooter, but the shooter has to wait until it hits the rim.
2. Because good coaches make sure that those guards on the perimeter get "blocked out".
3. Only couple of people in the league could get that done.[/QUOTE]

On 2: That's why you run plays. Also, since the play is never attempted I'm sure you can catch defenders sleeping on occasion.

On 3: Disagree on that one. There are MANY athletic flyers in the league who could make that play.

[QUOTE=plUto or bUst]On 2: That's why you run plays. Also, since the play is never attempted I'm sure you can catch defenders sleeping on occasion.

On 3: Disagree on that one. There are MANY athletic flyers in the league who could make that play.[/QUOTE]
He said at the end of games when a team needs to score on a putback, if you've ever played a close game of organized basketball there is no way you haven't heard your coach yell block out the perimeter.
It's not just athleticism, you need to have exceptional timing and get lucky and let the ball bounce your way.

the 3rd guy in the paint on the opposing team of the FT shooter blocks out the shooter and the middle. its basic fundamentals.

MJ did it when it was in the midddle of the game when everyone wasnt exactly concentrating. he wasnt always successful but he made sure if he did that shit on you, he was gonna make you look bad. everyone boxes out fundamentally at the end of the games or in the playoffs.

[QUOTE=SAKOTXA]He said at the end of games when a team needs to score on a putback, if you've ever played a close game of organized basketball there is no way you haven't heard your coach yell block out the perimeter.
It's not just athleticism, you need to have exceptional timing and get lucky and let the ball bounce your way.[/QUOTE]

Why not try this play more not just at the end of games but when the player shooting the freethrow is a poor free throw shooter? Run a screen to get an open lane for the dunker.

I agree you need exceptional timing and luck to pull this off. But I don't see any downside to missing. At worst, you get another body in there for an offensive rebound. At best, it's an easy putback.

I don't recall many plays where someone flew in and missed the putback simply because they play is almost never run.

Run a screen off a planned free throw miss? LOL think about what you just said. If the guy can't make the free throw to begin with how is he gonna aim where it rolls off the rim?

Anybody with a brain knows how to box out for a defensive rebound off a free throw miss.

There would not be enough time to run a play whose main goal was to spring a guard for a tip-dunk form the perimeter. Further, as others have said, any play devised would be left entirely up to chance anyway. Tip-dunks, even for the highest of fliers, require the ball to come off the rim in the correct location. For NBA players to pull this feat off, it requires equal parts fortitude, timing, and luck. Most times than not, the lane will be jammed up enough to not allow this sort of attempt.

Further, there is in fact protocol and plays devised by coaches for end-of-game scenarios for those moments when a team trails by two and they only have one free throw left to shoot with limited time left on the game clock. However, again, those plays are most likely a crap shoot, as the defense knows what's coming just as well. On top of everything else, players are typically horrible at missing on purpose (as the ball must hit the rim).

Also, I think it's worth noting other leagues do not operate on the same legal plane as the NBA. For instance, in Michigan high school basketball, no players can enter the paint until the ball hits the rim.

[QUOTE=Pushxx]Run a screen off a [B]planned free throw miss[/B]? LOL think about what you just said. If the guy can't make the free throw to begin with how is he gonna aim where it rolls off the rim?

Anybody with a brain knows how to box out for a defensive rebound off a free throw miss.[/QUOTE]
You now what, maybe a good FT shooter should make the first, and miss the second, because a putback is worth 2 pts. Or if it's an And1, just miss it and get the 2 pts from the putback.
Easy pts. Bobcats should start incorporating this.

[QUOTE=plUto or bUst]On 2: That's why you run plays. Also, since the play is never attempted I'm sure you can catch defenders sleeping on occasion.

On 3: Disagree on that one. There are MANY athletic flyers in the league who could make that play.[/QUOTE]

It's not about the leaping ability, it's about the speed needed to get from 23+ feet out to the rim that fast. Which is why, to my knowledge, only Iverson (twice that I know of) and Jordan (like 7-8 times that I know of) have done it.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]It's not about the leaping ability, it's about the speed needed to get from 23+ feet out to the rim that fast. Which is why, to my knowledge, only Iverson (twice that I know of) and Jordan (like 7-8 times that I know of) have done it.[/QUOTE]
Shannon: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZMy-bFDc0Q[/url]

[QUOTE=chazzy]Shannon: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZMy-bFDc0Q[/url][/QUOTE]

Forgot about that one. There may have been a few isolated ones from others players too, but only AI and Jordan have done it multiple times that I know of. Jordan far and away has done it the most times (at least 7-8 times I can recall off the top of my head).

Robert Horry does it here too although it's a clear violation since you have to be behind the FT shooter and can't cross the FT line before the ball hits the rim.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TEtaiZgmUV4#[/url]

That Shannon Brown play is a violation as well.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Forgot about that one. There may have been a few isolated ones from others players too, but only AI and Jordan have done it multiple times that I know of. Jordan far and away has done it the most times (at least 7-8 times I can recall off the top of my head).[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXFhmzwuaQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXFhmzwuaQ[/URL]

Channeling his inner MJ

I remember Corey Maggette having an illegal one too. I can never find the clip though. It looked tremendous.

[QUOTE=NugzHeat3]Robert Horry does it here too although it's a clear violation since you have to be behind the FT shooter and can't cross the FT line before the ball hits the rim.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TEtaiZgmUV4#[/url]

That Shannon Brown play is a violation as well.[/QUOTE]
Never mind. Both the Horry and Brown plays are legal. You can cross the line right after the ball is released instead of waiting until it hits the rim.

[QUOTE]Players not occupying lane spaces must remain on the court behind the three point line above the free throw line extended and may not be touching the line or floor inside the line when the ball is released.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NugzHeat3]Never mind. Both the Horry and Brown plays are legal. You can cross the line right after the ball is released instead of waiting until it hits the rim.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for that confirmation. You had me wondering with your claim earlier.

[QUOTE=Rake2204]Thanks for that confirmation. You had me wondering with your claim earlier.[/QUOTE]
No problem. It turned out it's just the FT shooter who has to wait until the ball hits the rim.

It only is possible for freak athletes, and only when the other team fails so hard at boxing out

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]It only is possible for freak athletes, and only when the other team fails so hard at boxing out[/QUOTE]
A lot of things have to go right, but I don't believe it requires extreme athleticism, as it is still just a routine tip dunk (if there's such a thing as a "routine" tip dunk). I used to sneak from behind and tip-dunk my players' free throws during practice on occasion.

[QUOTE=gyu][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXFhmzwuaQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlXFhmzwuaQ[/URL]

Channeling his inner MJ[/QUOTE]

Play of his career. :lol If von wafer can do it, I don't see why many other guys in the league don't do it. I'm surprised someone like Westbrook doesn't have more of these. He should just streak to the basket every time Kendrick Perkins shoots a free throw.

[QUOTE=plUto or bUst]Play of his career. :lol If von wafer can do it, I don't see why many other guys in the league don't do it. I'm surprised someone like Westbrook doesn't have more of these. He should just streak to the basket every time Kendrick Perkins shoots a free throw.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a classic case of picking your spot, which is why it's so rare. If Westbrook always crashed like that, teams would recognize this almost immediately and his clear path would be nullified from that point forward. It's usually a "catch people sleeping" situation.

To further compound the unlikelihood of this situation, even if a player attempts to crash the paint from the arc every single time a free throw is shot, they're going to be sprinting for nothing probably about 75% of the time (a team's average free throw percentage). Further, the chances one of the 25% of misses coming off the rim in a timely fashion at just the right spot is even lower. Plus, the chances of a slew of big men not already swarming around the board depletes the opportunity even further.

Through it all, it's likely a poor way to expend someone's energy in the long run.

I was looking for instances of missed put back dunks and found one by AI. Beautiful play... too bad he missed it.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1VZ_7zOTNw[/url]