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Inspired a generation, lifted the entire organization boosted the NBA greatly, philanthropy after being HIV positive, the very definition of a selfless basketball player that could do everything, etc. list goes on and on.
kobe carried to 3 titles by Shaq. he only has 2 FMVPs
Magic Johnson is my favorite b-ball player of all time. Why don't Lakers fans respect him compared to Kobe? Or is this a younger NBA generation thing?
You say some disrespect Magic, I'd say you disrespect Kobe. Both are legendary greats, and a discussion is at the very least legit.
In before the lock.
It's common sense that Kobe is.
Didn't we just have this conversation a few days ago.
what's everyone's favorite Sushi?
As good as Magic was he wasn't the all around player like Kobe is.
Magic was a liability on defense and his shooting was suspect at times.
Agreed.
All time rankings by purist and the sports panel will fall on influence years down the line.
Magic will always be remembered simply because of his size and ability at the point. When you think of the PG position, you think of Magic; when you think of the SG position, you think of MJ, not Kobe.
This will hurt Kobe down the line when players are looking at who the best HOFs they would want to emulate at their respective positions.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]As good as Magic was he wasn't the all around player like Kobe is.
Magic was a liability on defense and [B]his shooting was suspect at times.[/B][/QUOTE]
In his early career. In his prime, he was lights out. Mainly because of his shot selection. It was damn near perfect. And his shot amount was very good. Not too much and not too little shots.
Kobe is the better all around player. Magic is the better team player. Which one of them make a higher impact?
whatever fits your agenda, OP.
[QUOTE=IamRAMBO24]Agreed.
All time rankings by purist and the sports panel will fall on influence years down the line.
Magic will always be remembered simply because of his size and ability at the point. When you think of the PG position, you think of Magic; when you think of the SG position, you think of MJ, not Kobe.
This will hurt Kobe down the line when players are looking at who the best HOFs they would want to emulate at their respective positions.[/QUOTE]
This may be true and that's why Magic was so special. When you think of PG, you think of Magic.
When you think of SG, you think Kobe/MJ. Very similar players with all around game but they are very different. Kobe was much more versatile where MJ was much more athletic, some even say they are very even. MJ had jumping ability where Kobe is much more quicker.
Wait since when is Kobe even in the competition :facepalm
[QUOTE=Nero Tulip]Wait since when is Kobe even in the competition :facepalm[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
[QUOTE=9erempiree]As good as Magic was he wasn't the all around player like Kobe is.
Magic was a liability on defense and his shooting was suspect at times.[/QUOTE]
Are you kidding me ..
Magic was a beast on offense; that sky hook was unstoppable. His size allowed him to back down at the perimeter, allowing him to take easy more efficient shots. He might not score as much but his passing abilities more than make up for his offense.
As a rookie, when Kobe was air balling wide open looks, Magic single handedly lead an under-manned team to a championship.
Their roles should of been reversed: Kobe gets aids from butt raping that white girl and Magic wins 5+ rings with a full career. Life isn't fair; the good guys are always the ones getting screwed over.
You're 27 years old, tell me more about magic being ur favorite player all-time.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]This may be true and that's why Magic was so special. When you think of PG, you think of Magic.
When you think of SG, you think Kobe/MJ. Very similar players with all around game but they are very different. Kobe was much more versatile where MJ was much more athletic, some even say they are very even. MJ had jumping ability where Kobe is much more quicker.[/QUOTE]
Disagreed.
MJ's first step was nearly unstoppable. He was breaking ankles at will in his prime whereas Kobe had a hard time driving to the basket against smaller, quicker guards, thus why he developed the mid range early on.
Versatility goes to Jordan also with a better post game and better hands on defense. He also played point and was a great passer at that position, much better than Kobe's performance in this area.
I'll give Kobe the 3 point shot.
[QUOTE=Nero Tulip]Wait since when is Kobe even in the competition :facepalm[/QUOTE]
you've been forgiven but kobe wont be so forgiving next time.
OP made this same thread last week.
I wonder if Kobe would have more respect if the refs didn't cheat the Kings in 2002. All I know is Kobe should thank God for Shaq being on the team for that. If the same thing happened with Shaq sidelined people would rip him for it.
[QUOTE=IamRAMBO24]Disagreed.
MJ's first step was nearly unstoppable. He was breaking ankles at will in his prime whereas Kobe had a hard time driving to the basket against smaller, quicker guards, thus why he developed the mid range early on.
Versatility goes to Jordan also with a better post game and better hands on defense. He also played point and was a great passer at that position, much better than Kobe's performance in this area.
I'll give Kobe the 3 point shot.[/QUOTE]
lol @ having a hard time driving to the basket so he developed a mid-range game.:facepalm More like he was a better all around player at a young age. You must not watch Kobe play or too young.
Kobe was a beast at the rim.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]As good as Magic was he wasn't the all around player like Kobe is.
Magic was a liability on defense and his shooting was suspect at times.[/QUOTE]
Nope. Kobe is a better volume scorer and defender, that's it. Magic was better in every other area. I'm not a stats guy, I watched both of their entire careers and it's clear to me who was the better all around player, so go look up their career stats and you and others who never actually watched Magic play will see it; Magic beats Kobe in every statistical category except ppg. Now, who's the greatest Laker? IMO, it's Magic. Kobe has longevity and could possibly win more titles and set a few scoring records in the future, so you never know, he might be the greatest one day. But not yet.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]OP made this same thread last week.
I wonder if Kobe would have more respect if the refs didn't cheat the Kings in 2002. All I know is Kobe should thank God for Shaq being on the team for that. If the same thing happened with Shaq sidelined people would rip him for it.[/QUOTE]
I was a Kings fan at the time but I always thought it was slightly overblown considering what occurred earlier in the series. The refs on a whole were terrible.
While I think the Kings deserved a ring, I'm not sure I can say the Lakers didn't.
Magic Johnson IS the Lakers. No other player is as commonly associated with a team.
Greatness is defined by peak performances in the biggest moments. Magic's moments in the Finals are legendary -- the 42-point 15-rebound game to close out the 1980 Series, the "Baby Sky Hook", etc.
What are Kobe's defining moments when the stakes are highest?
[QUOTE=Rubio2Gasol]I was a Kings fan at the time but I always thought it was slightly overblown considering what occurred earlier in the series. The refs on a whole were terrible.
While I think the Kings deserved a ring, I'm not sure I can say the Lakers didn't.[/QUOTE]
Even Game 7 was made up of shitty calls against Sacramento. The earlier game (was it 2?) and then Game 6...Game 6 is astonishing, especially down the stretch. Not to mention the Shaq calls that Shaq will always get and I think he got more of that year...that year, more than the previous (and again the next) Shaq was just murdering people with that elbow.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]lol @ having a hard time driving to the basket so he developed a mid-range game.:facepalm More like he was a better all around player at a young age. You must not watch Kobe play or too young.
[B]Kobe was a beast at the rim.[/B][/QUOTE]
We can actually check those stats now apparently. All the way from 2000-01 season. He actually was at his best at finishing at the rim his 2011-12 season surprisingly (not counting this year):
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/shooting/2012/[/url]
That's where he shot 67.8% from the inside. Granted, it was a short season, so he didn't take that many shots. But his 2008-09 season, he shot 64.7% at the rim.
Young Kobe like 2000-01 and 2002-03 didn't shoot as well as in 11-12.
2000-01 shot 64.7% inside (the same as his 08-09 self). And Kobe in 2002-03 shot 63.4%. You can also look up his percentage with layups and dunks.
But he wasn't a LeBron or Wade. They were better at finishing at the rim. Jordan probably was too, obviously in his prime. But Kobe is still great at it.
Wolves suck, Minnesota suck, Kevin Love sucks.
No wonder why OP has nothing else to post about except the Lakers all week.
[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]Magic Johnson IS the Lakers. No other player is as commonly associated with a team.
Greatness is defined by peak performances in the biggest moments. Magic's moments in the Finals are legendary -- the 42-point 15-rebound game to close out the 1980 Series, the "Baby Sky Hook", etc.
[B]
What are Kobe's defining moments when the stakes are highest?[/B][/QUOTE]
Game 2 v. Philadelphia - 31 points 8 rebounds 6 assists 2 steals 2 blocks 11-23 FG 8-8 FT
Game 3 v. Philadelphia - 32 points 6 rebounds 3 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 13-30 FG 6-6 FT
Game 4 v. Philadelphia - 19 points 10 rebounds 9 assists 1 steal 1 block 6-13 FG 7-12 FT
Game 5 v. Philadelphia - 26 points 12 rebounds 6 assists 1 steal 1 block 7-18 FG 10-11 FT
Game 3 v. New Jersey - 36 points 6 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal 2 blocks 14-23 FG 7-10 FT
Game 4 v. New Jersey - 25 points 6 rebounds 8 assists 2 steal 0 blocks 7-16 FG 9-11 FT
Game 2 v. Detroit - 33 points 4 rebounds 7 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 14-27 FG 4-5 FT
Game 2 v. Boston - 30 points 4 rebounds 8 assists 3 steals 0 blocks 11-23 FG 7-7 FT
Game 3 v. Boston - 36 points 7 rebounds 1 assist 2 steals 0 blocks 12-20 FG 11-18 FT
Game 4 v. Boston - 17 points 4 rebounds 10 assists 4 steals 0 blocks 6-19 FG 5-6 FT
Game 1 v. Orlando - 40 points 8 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 2 blocks 16-34 FG 8-8 FT
Game 2 v. Orlando - 29 points 4 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 10-22 FG 8-10 FT
Game 3 v. Orlando - 31 points 3 rebounds 8 assists 0 steals 0 blocks 11-25 FG 5-10 FT
Game 4 v. Orlando - 32 points 7 rebounds 8 assists 1 steal 1 block 11-31 FG 8-8 FT
Game 5 v. Orlando - 30 points 6 rebounds 5 assists 2 steals 4 blocks 10-23 FG 8-8 FT
Game 1 v. Boston - 30 points 7 rebounds 6 assists 1 steal 1 block 10-22 FG 9-10 FT
Game 3 v. Boston - 29 points 7 rebounds 4 assists 2 steals 3 blocks 10-29 FG 8-8 FT
Game 4 v. Boston - 33 points 6 rebounds 2 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 10-22 FG 7-8 FT
Game 5 v. Boston - 38 points 5 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal 1 block 13-27 FG 8-9 FT
Game 6 v. Boston - 26 points 11 rebounds 3 assists 4 steals 0 blocks 9-19 FG 7-7 FT
Game 7 v. Boston - When his shot wasn't falling he did everything he can do to help with 15 rebounds. Unheard of for a guy with two 7 footers on his team and the other team with KG.
You have just listed one of Magic's moments where I have named plenty of Kobe's.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]lol @ having a hard time driving to the basket so he developed a mid-range game.:facepalm More like he was a better all around player at a young age. You must not watch Kobe play or too young.
Kobe was a beast at the rim.[/QUOTE]
Jordan in his younger years was much quicker and had a better mid range game than Kobe. As he got older, he diversified his offense and played the post. When Phil needed him to man the point, he was a great passer and did not turn over the ball as much as Kobe. On defense, he had quicker hands and was the best defensive player even when he was compared to big men.
The man was simply more skilled on every single aspect of the game except the 3 point.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]Game 2 v. Philadelphia - 31 points 8 rebounds 6 assists 2 steals 2 blocks 11-23 FG 8-8 FT
Game 3 v. Philadelphia - 32 points 6 rebounds 3 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 13-30 FG 6-6 FT
Game 4 v. Philadelphia - 19 points 10 rebounds 9 assists 1 steal 1 block 6-13 FG 7-12 FT
Game 5 v. Philadelphia - 26 points 12 rebounds 6 assists 1 steal 1 block 7-18 FG 10-11 FT
Game 3 v. New Jersey - 36 points 6 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal 2 blocks 14-23 FG 7-10 FT
Game 4 v. New Jersey - 25 points 6 rebounds 8 assists 2 steal 0 blocks 7-16 FG 9-11 FT
Game 2 v. Detroit - 33 points 4 rebounds 7 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 14-27 FG 4-5 FT
Game 2 v. Boston - 30 points 4 rebounds 8 assists 3 steals 0 blocks 11-23 FG 7-7 FT
Game 3 v. Boston - 36 points 7 rebounds 1 assist 2 steals 0 blocks 12-20 FG 11-18 FT
Game 4 v. Boston - 17 points 4 rebounds 10 assists 4 steals 0 blocks 6-19 FG 5-6 FT
Game 1 v. Orlando - 40 points 8 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 2 blocks 16-34 FG 8-8 FT
Game 2 v. Orlando - 29 points 4 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 10-22 FG 8-10 FT
Game 3 v. Orlando - 31 points 3 rebounds 8 assists 0 steals 0 blocks 11-25 FG 5-10 FT
Game 4 v. Orlando - 32 points 7 rebounds 8 assists 1 steal 1 block 11-31 FG 8-8 FT
Game 5 v. Orlando - 30 points 6 rebounds 5 assists 2 steals 4 blocks 10-23 FG 8-8 FT
Game 1 v. Boston - 30 points 7 rebounds 6 assists 1 steal 1 block 10-22 FG 9-10 FT
Game 3 v. Boston - 29 points 7 rebounds 4 assists 2 steals 3 blocks 10-29 FG 8-8 FT
Game 4 v. Boston - 33 points 6 rebounds 2 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 10-22 FG 7-8 FT
Game 5 v. Boston - 38 points 5 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal 1 block 13-27 FG 8-9 FT
Game 6 v. Boston - 26 points 11 rebounds 3 assists 4 steals 0 blocks 9-19 FG 7-7 FT
Game 7 v. Boston - When his shot wasn't falling he did everything he can do to help with 15 rebounds. Unheard of for a guy with two 7 footers on his team and the other team with KG.
You have just listed one of Magic's moments where I have named plenty of Kobe's.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
I'm not discounting any of these games, but are any of them legendary? Have any of these games transcended the game itself and moved into the common lexicon and culture?
I guarantee you that more people know about the two Magic games that I posted, albeit the fact that they happened roughly 30 years ago, than any in your long list.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]Wolves suck, Minnesota suck, Kevin Love sucks.
No wonder why OP has nothing else to post about except the Lakers all week.[/QUOTE]
LMAO the Wolves are better than the Lakers. Go take a look at the standings. Lakers are under .500 and not seeded to go to the playoffs like Minnesota is. They can only pray and hope to be where Minnesota is right now. The Lakers right now are NOT a playoff team like the Wolves.
NEXT!
[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]:roll:
I'm not discounting any of these games, but are any of them legendary? Have any of these games transcended the game itself and moved into the common lexicon and culture?
I guarantee you that more people know about the two Magic games that I posted, albeit the fact that they happened roughly 30 years ago, than any in your long list.[/QUOTE]
Yup.
Legacy will be based on influence and game defining moments. Kobe's 81 point performance will surely be remembered, but as far as game defining moments go, Magic has him beat.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]Game 2 v. Philadelphia - 31 points 8 rebounds 6 assists 2 steals 2 blocks 11-23 FG 8-8 FT
Game 3 v. Philadelphia - 32 points 6 rebounds 3 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 13-30 FG 6-6 FT
Game 4 v. Philadelphia - 19 points 10 rebounds 9 assists 1 steal 1 block 6-13 FG 7-12 FT
Game 5 v. Philadelphia - 26 points 12 rebounds 6 assists 1 steal 1 block 7-18 FG 10-11 FT
Game 3 v. New Jersey - 36 points 6 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal 2 blocks 14-23 FG 7-10 FT
Game 4 v. New Jersey - 25 points 6 rebounds 8 assists 2 steal 0 blocks 7-16 FG 9-11 FT
Game 2 v. Detroit - 33 points 4 rebounds 7 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 14-27 FG 4-5 FT
Game 2 v. Boston - 30 points 4 rebounds 8 assists 3 steals 0 blocks 11-23 FG 7-7 FT
Game 3 v. Boston - 36 points 7 rebounds 1 assist 2 steals 0 blocks 12-20 FG 11-18 FT
Game 4 v. Boston - 17 points 4 rebounds 10 assists 4 steals 0 blocks 6-19 FG 5-6 FT
Game 1 v. Orlando - 40 points 8 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 2 blocks 16-34 FG 8-8 FT
Game 2 v. Orlando - 29 points 4 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 10-22 FG 8-10 FT
Game 3 v. Orlando - 31 points 3 rebounds 8 assists 0 steals 0 blocks 11-25 FG 5-10 FT
Game 4 v. Orlando - 32 points 7 rebounds 8 assists 1 steal 1 block 11-31 FG 8-8 FT
Game 5 v. Orlando - 30 points 6 rebounds 5 assists 2 steals 4 blocks 10-23 FG 8-8 FT
Game 1 v. Boston - 30 points 7 rebounds 6 assists 1 steal 1 block 10-22 FG 9-10 FT
Game 3 v. Boston - 29 points 7 rebounds 4 assists 2 steals 3 blocks 10-29 FG 8-8 FT
Game 4 v. Boston - 33 points 6 rebounds 2 assists 2 steals 0 blocks 10-22 FG 7-8 FT
Game 5 v. Boston - 38 points 5 rebounds 4 assists 1 steal 1 block 13-27 FG 8-9 FT
Game 6 v. Boston - 26 points 11 rebounds 3 assists 4 steals 0 blocks 9-19 FG 7-7 FT
Game 7 v. Boston - When his shot wasn't falling he did everything he can do to help with 15 rebounds. Unheard of for a guy with two 7 footers on his team and the other team with KG.
You have just listed one of Magic's moments where I have named plenty of Kobe's.[/QUOTE]
48 & 16 in the WCF gets no mention?
[QUOTE=stallionaire]LMAO the Wolves are better than the Lakers. Go take a look at the standings. Lakers are under .500 and not seeded to go to the playoffs like Minnesota is. They can only pray and hope to be where Minnesota is right now. The Lakers right now are NOT a playoff team like the Wolves.
NEXT![/QUOTE]
When's the last time the wolves were in the playoffs? :roll: :roll: :roll:
The season is young. Don't be too excited.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]As good as Magic was he wasn't the all around player like Kobe is.
Magic was a liability on defense and his shooting was suspect at times.[/QUOTE]
This is the VERY obvious answer, Kobe is the greatest Laker, Magic is 2nd.
I go back to Jerry West's rookie season so no BS about it being a young person's opinion. No knock on Magic, he was incredible!!!!
Magic by far had the better teammates, plus no real competition in the west.
Shaq, Kareem, Magic were all far superior players than Kobe ever was..so how in the world is Kobe even in contention for greatest Laker ever?
[QUOTE=secund2nun]Shaq, Kareem, Magic were all far superior players than Kobe ever was..so how in the world is Kobe even in contention for greatest Laker ever?[/QUOTE]
FAIL!!!!!! :facepalm
[QUOTE=secund2nun]Shaq, Kareem, Magic were all far superior players than Kobe ever was..so how in the world is Kobe even in contention for greatest Laker ever?[/QUOTE]
dumba$$ ......go ahead and call me a kobe homer instead of giving an explanation of why you think shaq, kareem and magic were superior players than kobe
[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]I'm not discounting any of these games, but are any of them legendary? Have any of these games transcended the game itself and moved into the common lexicon and culture?
I guarantee you that more people know about the two Magic games that I posted, albeit the fact that they happened roughly 30 years ago, than any in your long list.[/QUOTE]
Things like "common lexicon", "culture", and "knowing more Magic games" are just popular opinion.
And yes, being 30 years ago does bring up a point. How many fans today are going to look up Magic Johnson games when most don't watch every game of Bryant's today ?
I'm not saying Magic doesn't have any greatest games that out duel Kobe's greatest games, but you bring them up. I don't buy the "nobody remembers that" stuff, that just tells me their not real fans to begin with. Wasn't the early 2000's period just not remembered as much because viewership down in those years ?
I'm pretty sure in given time, people will remember Bryant's greatest games. Not to mention, if he does play another key part in a championship, he would be the only one to bring 6 titles to the Lakers. Also, let's say he makes a run at Kareem's all-time scoring list and the playoff all-time scoring list... combine that with a great playoff run and title... I can certainly see a consensus of Kobe as the greatest Laker.
[QUOTE=Lakers_Kobe_Fan]dumba$$ ......go ahead and call me a kobe homer instead of giving an explanation of why you think shaq, kareem and magic were superior players than kobe[/QUOTE]
You are a kobe fanboy. Prime Kobe could not even lead his team past the first round in the 3 chances he got.
Replace Kobe with Shaq, Kareem, Magic and they move past the first round (most likely past the 2nd round) in all 3 of those seasons. Not to mention those 3 have a trackrecord of dominating in the playoffs and NBA finals like Kobe never has.
[QUOTE=secund2nun]You are a kobe fanboy. Prime Kobe could not even lead his team past the first round in the 3 chances he got.
Replace Kobe with Shaq, Kareem, Magic and they move past the first round (most likely past the 2nd round) in all 3 of those seasons. Not to mention those 3 have a trackrecord of dominating in the playoffs and NBA finals like Kobe never has.[/QUOTE]
what a fcuking retard....who was his teammate??? smush parker??? kwame brown? luke walton???
dumb a$$ mutha fcuka....
what a waste of time...dont respond...
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I'm pretty sure in given time, people will remember Bryant's greatest games. Not to mention, if he does play another key part in a championship, he would be the only one to bring 6 titles to the Lakers. Also, let's say he makes a run at Kareem's all-time scoring list and the playoff all-time scoring list... combine that with a great playoff run and title... I can certainly see a consensus of Kobe as the greatest Laker.[/QUOTE]
I'll translate what you've just said -- Kobe's claim to fame is as an 'accumulator', not as a peak performer in most prime-time moments.
That's why Magic and MJ have more memorable moments, because they performed at clutch times in the most important games. That's what defines the greatest of the great.
Kareem >>>>>>> Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe
/thread
[QUOTE=Shepseskaf]That's what defines the greatest of the great.[/QUOTE]
no thats how [I]you[/I] define the greatest of the great