does how you talk about bball on this forum reflect how u discuss ball in real life?

particularly interested in hearing from the more stats minded fans on this board. I bartend a sports bar in a fairly good basketball city so we get some bball traffic and when the guys that discuss nba in the bar usually sound pretty unsophisticated compared to what gets thrown around here.

So I always wonder whether these guys are just dumbing down their convo for real life and whether they start quoting basketball reference once they get home and on the web or whether they are a different segment of fans entirely.

I'm guessing they are just casual fans mostly, so do you change how you talk about nba when you are in the company of casual fans or do you take pride in educating those guys?

I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!

It's like how you explain one player is better than the other and "Mr. Politically Correct" brings up MJ as the greatest player ever. I think they do it, so they avoid fights. It's like the common thing to say about MJ even though you don't agree with it.

If you don't want to have to kick a guy's @ss or get provoked. Just say MJ. If you bring up someone else....there chest puffs out.:facepalm

Its a little easier to construct a well thought out, articulate argument via the medium of a message board than it is when you are trying to get a word in edgeways at the local sports bar in my opinion.

That said I really think emoticons have an adverse effect on the quality of debate on ish since people sometimes rely on using them rather than addressing specifically the points someone made.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]If you don't want to have to kick a guy's @ss or get provoked. Just say MJ. If you bring up someone else....there chest puffs out.:facepalm[/QUOTE]

yea I try to stay out of discussions with patrons cause it can definitley get heated. I'm just glad I don't work in Chicago :facepalm

[QUOTE=9erempiree]I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!
[/QUOTE]

LOL, no, you just 'agreed' because he would've kicked your ass otherwise.

Kind of. I generally rock the lel bron face when anyone says anything to me.

Most of the people i i know and meet in person are casual fans, so you can only speak about real general things with them.

Like if i brought up the MVP race with a group of guys, it won't get anywhere...because everyone i'm talking to will have likely maybe seen one or two games from Lebron, Durant, and Paul this year tops.

They would probably just say something like "Lebron doesn't deserve it since he has Wade on his team...and Chris Paul is only getting 17 ppg...so I'd give to Durant".



..and I would usually just agree with them and move on, since we're usually at a bar or just hanging out and drinking and bullshitting...so in that situation i wouldn't want to try and get super serious and super detailed.

[QUOTE=Levity]Kind of. I generally rock the lel bron face when anyone says anything to me.[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll:

I'm surrounded by Mexicans at work and on the street who's patent reaction to end any and all detailed basketball discussion is to say "KOBE!" Or.... "81 points, that's all I got to say"

The rare occasion when I'm talking to someone who is actually a fan of the sport and not a player I feel I have a high success rate in converting them to my opinions. I don't really do too much debating on here so the only difference would be since the average ish user is more informed than the average guy on the street I don't have to go as deep into the well of information in the real world as I would here to make my points.

[QUOTE=Breezy]I'm surrounded by Mexicans at work and on the street who's patent reaction to end any and all detailed basketball discussion is to say "KOBE!" Or.... "81 points, that's all I got to say"

The rare occasion when I'm talking to someone who is actually a fan of the sport and not a player I feel I have a high success rate in converting them to my opinions. I don't really do too much debating on here so the only difference would be since the average ish user is more informed than the average guy on the street I don't have to go as deep into the well of information in the real world as I would here to make my points.[/QUOTE]

if u spoke spanish u would see some of those mexican fans are pretty knowledgable it's just a language barrier

You have to remember the general public are societies' sheep. They will say one thing and not even think of an argument for it.

This is the same with Michael Jordan. It's very politically correct to say he's the GOAT because people want to avoid confrontation. Sometimes I agree with them so they can shut the hell up with their drunk ramblings.

[QUOTE=STATUTORY]if u spoke spanish u would see some of those mexican fans are pretty knowledgable it's just a language barrier[/QUOTE]
No dude. I'm talking about Mexicans who speak perfect English. I speak barely passable Spanish so I wouldn't get involved in any detailed discussion about anything with someone who doesn't speak English. Most of them probably weren't even born in Mexico. They're parents were.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]You have to remember the general public are societies' sheep. They will say one thing and not even think of an argument for it.

This is the same with Michael Jordan. It's very politically correct to say he's the GOAT because people want to avoid confrontation. Sometimes I agree with them so they can shut the hell up with their drunk ramblings.[/QUOTE]

I don't blame people or look down on them for not knowing as much as I do or the people on this forum. This website caters to a niche group of hardcore nba fans. Most people just catch a game on their day off and see the final score of games they missed on the local news. I spend time every day pouring over stats, reading columns, reading this website, watching my local team, watching league pass watching classic games, checking stats from games from before I was born.... I even modified my schedule at work so I could have wednesday and thursday off because those are the best nba days.... I have a problem. Most people don't invest themselves like that. It's no surprise that they have shallow views of the Nba.

It's very different. When I hear a teenager comparing players that they never saw play, and seeing how ignorant they sound since they're talking about something they are not familiar with, I dismiss them and move on with my day. Here since you can't see the person, who they are, you tend to get into it more.

I usually try to educate casual followers

you got your high level of expertise and you got your junior high types, each at their own point in the spectrum. There's guys on here that should be banned from ever talking about basketball lol but there are a lot of guys that really know their stuff to so it ain't that much different really.

Thing is you get the entire internet world so you're gonna find the real-est hoops-heads world-wide on here. knowledge pool is deeper and wider. Look at that crazy dude Euroleague. I mean, he does rant but underneath is considerable knowledge. whether he is from Bosnia or France or Arkansas he does know a lot.

I have lived far out in rural parts of the country for long stretches and THAT was a problem finding people to talk about basketball at all. Especially back in the day. Internet is awesome for that, you can be out in the ocean on a schooner or in Wyoming or Peru and still find somebody to talk about Bob Lanier fighting with Dave Cowens or what the Bucks are up to tonight

Good question. I can't even talk nugs on ish, the "nuggets fan" on ish are so far away from actual nuggets fans it makes it too hard to try. These kids from wherever in the world they're from make it impossible.

[QUOTE=el gringos]Good question. I can't even talk nugs on ish, the "nuggets fan" on ish are so far away from actual nuggets fans it makes it too hard to try. These kids from wherever in the world they're from make it impossible.[/QUOTE]

Whereas any old watering hole on Colfax or Alameda you can find somebody ready to talk about Gallinari and Iggy, or the old days with Alex E. Or used to anyhow, they're probably all closed by now. Or even REAL old days with David Thompson and Danny Issel. Do you go that far back? I remember when they had the big changeover from the ABA!

DT gets all the credit for vertical but Dan Issel could really sky too. I saw Dan cut his head on the rim once on a running dunk. "Dr. Dunk" Darnell Hillman rammed into him in the paint and threw him off. You could almost see that little circle of stars going around his head but he stayed in the game, he looked like one of those patriots from the Revolutionary War they had a bandage on his head. nowadays they would bring the ambulance and wheelchair and play Rocky. Pierce is such a chump.
Issel claimed after that game he didn't actually hit the rim but that was modesty everybody saw him do it. Check him out right here [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdGvLMF_0I[/url]

About 40 seconds you can see him get way high

No I don't go back farther than dikembe/Abdul-rauf days- I'm mostly referring to the Carmelo leaving situation. On ish these nugs fans followed the world wide media take- every single nugs fan from "real life" understood that kroenke cutting payroll and g Karl played a huge part. Believe ish and he was leaving no matter what. In a frustrating time for real nuggets fans, ish nugs fans made it look like nuggets had no part in this and it was just "Carmelo is a prima Dona"


I will forever believe that had nugs not want 5 years without signing a single fa over min wage, cutting 30 million in payroll, and not trading Kmart things would be a lot different. Kroenke claimed and originally showed he would pay for a winner, and as soon as Carmelo (and nene/jr) got to the point of being ready to win ownership completely quit on them.

Kroenke and Karl forced Carmelo to leave more than "he just wanted to leave"

[QUOTE=el gringos]No I don't go back farther than dikembe/Abdul-rauf days- I'm mostly referring to the Carmelo leaving situation. On ish these nugs fans followed the world wide media take- every single nugs fan from "real life" understood that kroenke cutting payroll and g Karl played a huge part. Believe ish and he was leaving no matter what. In a frustrating time for real nuggets fans, ish nugs fans made it look like nuggets had no part in this and it was just "Carmelo is a prima Dona"


I will forever believe that had nugs not want 5 years without signing a single fa over min wage, cutting 30 million in payroll, and not trading Kmart things would be a lot different. Kroenke claimed and originally showed he would pay for a winner, and as soon as Carmelo (and nene/jr) got to the point of being ready to win ownership completely quit on them.

Kroenke and Karl forced Carmelo to leave more than "he just wanted to leave"[/QUOTE]

I believe a lot of big league owners not just NBA have a farm team mentality. They aren't about winning rings, or even about winning at all, they are only interested in the pure business of finding talent, trading, getting big money from LA or NY, and profit margins and all that. Not saying the Nuggets are like that necessarily but there's lots of that out there.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]I believe a lot of big league owners not just NBA have a farm team mentality. They aren't about winning rings, or even about winning at all, they are only interested in the pure business of finding talent, trading, getting big money from LA or NY, and profit margins and all that. Not saying the Nuggets are like that necessarily but there's lots of that out there.[/QUOTE]

memphis trying to trade parts of a contending team is definitely kinda f@cked up

[QUOTE=9erempiree]I'm more "politically correct" in public.

[B]I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ[/B] and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!

It's like how you explain one player is better than the other and "Mr. Politically Correct" brings up MJ as the greatest player ever. I think they do it, so they avoid fights. It's like the common thing to say about MJ even though you don't agree with it.[/QUOTE]It was incoherent to you because you're ****ing stupid if you really think Kobe is in ANY way better than Jordan.

It's not the common thing to say about MJ, it's just facts and you can't handle it.

[QUOTE=Glide2keva]It was incoherent to you because you're ****ing stupid if you really think Kobe is in ANY way better than Jordan.

It's not the common thing to say about MJ, it's just facts and you can't handle it.[/QUOTE]

prime example ^^^^^

mad and pissed.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]prime example ^^^^^

mad and pissed.[/QUOTE]
Not mad at all. Not even pissed. I'm pretty happy, my son turned 10 today and my daughter turned 16 yesterday. Going to be a fun weekend with my kids.

I'm just stating facts and the fact is Kobe is not in ANY way better than Jordan. The eye test proves it and the stats bare it out plain. No matter how many times you ridiculous fans say otherwise, smart basketball people know better. It's not even about titles.

A rare few of my real life friends actually follow basketball from a game by game/die hard basis. Lot of them are casual fans, because of certain reasons:

1) They got responsibilities in their lives and can't follow basketball because their time is occupied.

2) Might have been a fan of a team or player for a while, but since they don't play anymore they aren't as interested in the NBA, but still like to know some stuff about the current NBA, via anything I tell them or they look it up themselves.

Regardless of the situation, I hear what they got to say or I tell them what's new about the league and players. I usually just tell them the positive things, so we have common understanding.

If it is with someone who has more basketball knowledge on the league and follows it, past and present, then I will probably talk about the things I do on here.

You'd be surprised, most casuals I talk to are basiclly a recreation of Alphawolf or Lebron23.

So it's not a major transition

[QUOTE=9erempiree]prime example ^^^^^

mad and pissed.[/QUOTE]
lol i see characters like that sometimes at the bar. sloppy, overweight middle age cornball still living vicariously through MJ with them air jordan kicks.

sits there knuckle deep in a tray of nachos and randomly chiming in on other customers convo about the game with some unwelcome comment about how they ain't like mike.

Inevitably I have to call them a taxi and they wander off into the night alone.

I make MOST fans like OP feel timid by my knowledge.

[QUOTE=STATUTORY]lol i see characters like that sometimes at the bar. sloppy, overweight middle age cornball still living vicariously through MJ with them air jordan kicks.

sits there knuckle deep in a tray of nachos and randomly chiming in on other customers convo about the game with some unwelcome comment about how they ain't like mike.

Inevitably I have to call them a taxi and they wander off into the night alone.[/QUOTE]
You're funny.

I don't go to bars, too many people like you described and too many cocky and arrogant jerks looking to get the ever loving piss slapped out of them for being a douche bag, but wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]I make MOST fans like OP feel timid by my knowledge.[/QUOTE]
This.

I've been watching the NBA for longer than there idiots have been alive.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!

It's like how you explain one player is better than the other and "Mr. Politically Correct" brings up MJ as the greatest player ever. I think they do it, so they avoid fights. It's like the common thing to say about MJ even though you don't agree with it.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely agree.

Jordan fans do not let anybody else form opinions that are anti-Jordan, you have to be PC. I'm the exact opposite since it's ISH who cannot accept any reasonable arguments.

Typical ISH response; "because there are no reasonable arguments"

I find my circle of real life peers are open for debate

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]I absolutely agree.

Jordan fans do not let anybody else form opinions that are anti-Jordan, you have to be PC. I'm the exact opposite since it's ISH who cannot accept any reasonable arguments.

Typical ISH response; "because there are no reasonable arguments"

I find my circle of real life peers are open for debate[/QUOTE]
Please tell me what is to debate?

This fool said he tries to tell people that Kobe is better than Jordan. That's bullshit. As I said before, the eye test shows it and the stats bare it out. It's not that we don't like anti-Jordan discussions, just come with some knowledge of the game and how it is played and it's history before you say some stupid shit like Kobe is better than Jordan.

[QUOTE=Glide2keva]Please tell me what is to debate?

This fool said he tries to tell people that Kobe is better than Jordan. That's bullshit. As I said before, the eye test shows it and the stats bare it out. It's not that we don't like anti-Jordan discussions, just come with some knowledge of the game and how it is played and it's history before you say some stupid shit like Kobe is better than Jordan.[/QUOTE]

Anything can be open for debate as sports is subjective. You can find any argument you like as long as it supports YOUR opinion. Do I think Kobe is better than Jordan? No. Do I automatically discredit somebody who does? Hell no. But guys like you immediately throw out any reasonable argument when it refutes Jordan's greatness, the defensiveness is stronger when Kobe's name is brought up.

I don't think it's a matter of Kobe supporters not coming up with a reasonable argument, it's Jordan supporters who tend to be 100% close minded.

[QUOTE=Glide2keva]This.

I've been watching the NBA for longer than there idiots have been alive.[/QUOTE]

I've been watching the NBA since the early 80's. Yet my opinions are constantly refuted

I've had younger fans or fans my age say Kobe is better than Jordan. I have never thought the debate was ever serious. I still to this day never will forget what Bob Costas said during the 98 All-Star game:

"How will Kobe be the same player Jordan will be if Shaq is getting more shots than him ?"... Or something like... it's not exactly word for word, but that really put me as shrugging away Kobe vs Jordan comparison forever.

Kobe was never going to have a real shot at actually passing Jordan as individual player because he had to share the ball with Shaq for 8 season. And even at his best, it wasn't really at the level of a prime/peak Jordan anyways (just a level below).

But even if I were to take the fact Kobe was going to have that start, he wouldn't have had the rings total he did (I do think he could have won 3, maybe 4 titles, with the right supporting cast... anything more would have been impressive).

So it does strike me as odd that people I am close too... still like to debate Kobe vs Jordan today. Same goes for LeBron, Shaq, or Duncan... whoever else gets the Jordan comparison. I honestly hate all these comparison to 1 guy, because I feel you have to compare to the other below Jordan (Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc...) before you can compare to consensus GOAT.

I guess maybe it's just a casual fan thing.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I've had younger fans or fans my age say Kobe is better than Jordan. I have never thought the debate was ever serious. I still to this day never will forget what Bob Costas said during the 98 All-Star game:

"How will Kobe be the same player Jordan will be if Shaq is getting more shots than him ?"... Or something like... it's not exactly word for word, but that really put me as shrugging away Kobe vs Jordan comparison forever.

Kobe was never going to have a real shot at actually passing Jordan as individual player because he had to share the ball with Shaq for 8 season. And even at his best, it wasn't really at the level of a prime/peak Jordan anyways (just a level below).

But even if I were to take the fact Kobe was going to have that start, he wouldn't have had the rings total he did (I do think he could have won 3, maybe 4 titles, with the right supporting cast... anything more would have been impressive).

So it does strike me as odd that people I am close too... still like to debate Kobe vs Jordan today. Same goes for LeBron, Shaq, or Duncan... whoever else gets the Jordan comparison. I honestly hate all these comparison to 1 guy, because I feel you have to compare to the other below Jordan (Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc...) before you can compare to consensus GOAT.

I guess maybe it's just a casual fan thing.[/QUOTE]

Having said that, there are many co-factors that contribute to the success of an individual that any opinion can be argued.
As much as you say Kobe would not have garnered any success without such a quick start, the same argument can be made that Jordan may not have won titles without Pippen and P-Jax and an absolutely stellar crew.
This is what irks me the most is that an argument can be made for one but does not apply to the other. When it is brought up you're wrong or considered a troll.

[QUOTE=Glide2keva]Not mad at all. Not even pissed. I'm pretty happy, my son turned 10 today and my daughter turned 16 yesterday. Going to be a fun weekend with my kids.

I'm just stating facts and the fact is Kobe is not in ANY way better than Jordan. The eye test proves it and the stats bare it out plain. No matter how many times you ridiculous fans say otherwise, smart basketball people know better. It's not even about titles.[/QUOTE]


- Lots of ignorant fans like this guy above on the east coast.....talking hoops over there and you get the whole "MJ>Kobe derp derp MVP's derp...."

- pheew...thank goodness I live on the west coast....with the real teams and real fans.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I've had younger fans or fans my age say Kobe is better than Jordan. I have never thought the debate was ever serious. I still to this day never will forget what Bob Costas said during the 98 All-Star game:

"How will Kobe be the same player Jordan will be if Shaq is getting more shots than him ?"... Or something like... it's not exactly word for word, but that really put me as shrugging away Kobe vs Jordan comparison forever.

Kobe was never going to have a real shot at actually passing Jordan as individual player because he had to share the ball with Shaq for 8 season. And even at his best, it wasn't really at the level of a prime/peak Jordan anyways (just a level below).

But even if I were to take the fact Kobe was going to have that start, he wouldn't have had the rings total he did (I do think he could have won 3, maybe 4 titles, with the right supporting cast... anything more would have been impressive).

So it does strike me as odd that people I am close too... still like to debate Kobe vs Jordan today. Same goes for LeBron, Shaq, or Duncan... whoever else gets the Jordan comparison. I honestly hate all these comparison to 1 guy, because I feel you have to compare to the other below Jordan (Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc...) before you can compare to consensus GOAT.

I guess maybe it's just a casual fan thing.[/QUOTE]


that's funny.....I was at a USF basketball camp in 1993....Ol' heads who watched Baylor , Russell and Chamberlain said the same thing about Jordan ..

"Jordan was never as good as Russell or Baylor"..."Jordan no matter what was never on Chamberlains level of dominance"


:confusedshrug:


just different era's and who they believe is the best

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]that's funny.....I was at a USF basketball camp in 1993....Ol' heads who watched Baylor , Russell and Chamberlain said the same thing about Jordan ..

"Jordan was never as good as Russell or Baylor"..."Jordan no matter what was never on Chamberlains level of dominance"


:confusedshrug:


[B]just different era's and who they believe is the best[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, I get what your saying.

In the end, we kinda all got the same players ranking up somewhere as the best.