Dwyane Wade = Best Shooting Guard this year?

The guy has been doing great the past few weeks, you can see the explosiveness returning. He's very efficient, much improved defender from last season, and while being the second option has been putting up great numbers.

21\5\5 on 51% shooting, playing a career low in minutes, and least shots taken since his rookie year. Numbers only have been going up, 22\6\5 by the end of the year aren't out of the equation, he always performs better post All-Star Break.

Sure Kobe and Harden are scoring more than him, but they are less efficient, worse defenders this season, and have worst record.

Not to mention Wade is 3-0 against Harden and Kobe this year, while averaging
25.6 PPG 6.7 APG 5.0 RPG 2.3 SPG 1.2 BPG against these two guys. He locked down Kobe Bryant to a 8\25 shooting game with 6 turnovers.

Is Dwyane Wade the BEST shooting guard this year? Or are Kobe or Harden better?

Kobe & Harden >>>>

/endthispoorexcuseofathread

No, it's Kobe even as a 34 year old.

Don't get me wrong, Wade has been nice in spurts when he CHOOSES to be, but being that selective doesn't allow him to claim that title if he only plays when he feels like it.

Plus, he plays for the foul call so much now it's appalling, and he's the beneficiary of a TON of illegal moving screens it seems now.

Wade and Harden are the number 2 spots behind Mamba.

I'm really happy to see Wade pick it up and not have the inconsistent play earlier this year. There is sometimes where his shot isn't falling and that bad comes, but he's been impressive as of late.

But I think Bryant and Harden have had better years.

I think him and Kobe are 1A 1B. Only think Kobe is better at is shooting really. Wade's a better defender, shot blocker, and their passing is at the same level. Look at Wade's teammates though and their numbers. LeBron at 26/7/7 and Bosh at like 18/8. I mean DAMN.

[QUOTE]Sure Kobe and Harden are scoring more than him, but they are less efficient, worse defenders this season, and have worst record.[/QUOTE]

Maybe if they were sitting out tons of games and being carried by LeBron and Bosh in a joke conference that wouldn't be the case...

[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]I think him and Kobe are 1A 1B. Only think Kobe is better at is shooting really. Wade's a better defender, shot blocker, and their passing is at the same level. Look at Wade's teammates though and their numbers. LeBron at 26/7/7 and Bosh at like 18/8. I mean DAMN.[/QUOTE]

Wait, who do you have has 1A ?

[QUOTE=iDunk]Kobe & Harden >>>>

/endthispoorexcuseofathread[/QUOTE]

This.

He's been the best SG over the last few weeks, but Kobe still his him beat for the year.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7][B]I'm really happy to see Wade pick it up and not have the inconsistent play earlier this year[/B]. There is sometimes where his shot isn't falling and that bad comes, but he's been impressive as of late.

But I think Bryant and Harden have had better years.[/QUOTE]

His HGH cycle didnt kick in yet

We're not ranking who we think is the best player, but who has been the best this season.



Wade doesn't begin to have an argument over either Bryant or Harden...not even close.

how can he be the best shooting guard if he cant shoot. :no:

Give me Wade over both come playoff time. That's for damn sure. Especially considering one in particular likely won't even be there anyway.

Wade is the best SG. His raw numbers are down because he plays with the best player in the league. Give him the freedom to chuck/ball-dominate the way Kobe and Harden do and he'd be the same 28/5/7 Wade he used to be.

I find it interesting that OP mentioned Wade having a better record, when clearly his teammate in Bron is not only better than any teammate Kobe or Harden has had this year (by a long shot at that), but also is the reigning MVP and regardless of award, the best player in the league.

Anyway.

Wade has been effective. But Kobe and Harden have been better thusfar. A few weeks of vintage play does not erase the performances Wade put up prior to New Years. If he keeps it up for an extended period of time, we can have that discussion. But there's not much about 21/5/5 that yells out "best SG in the league."

Also, unlike Wade, Kobe and Harden are asked to take up the scoring mantle for the team, while defending the opposing team's best guard or prolific player on the perimeter night in and night out. That job typically falls on Lebron in crunch moments, not Wade. Neither is Wade asked to account for the level of offensive output those two players are. So though I won't argue Wade being a better defender than Kobe or Harden at this stage of their careers, there's more insight to be added than his blocks per game and such.

Regardless, this is an overreaction thread. Love Wade's game, but this is clearly overall one of his worst years, while conversely this is one of Kobe's best years in the last 2 or 3 seasons, and clearly Harden's breakout season. A few weeks of good play doesn't really change that.

[QUOTE=2010splash]Wade is the best SG. His raw numbers are down because he plays with the best player in the league. Give him the freedom to chuck/ball-dominate the way Kobe and Harden do and he'd be the same 28/5/7 Wade he used to be.[/QUOTE]

True.

Wade number's are down because lebron has been so good its almost a crime when he doesnt have the ball in his hands.That said wade season is tad below kobe but at the rate he is going he will probably be best shooting guard.

That said wade has been a much better defender than both kobe and harden.Especially kobe has been frustrating with his offball defense which resulted in many easy layups for opposition.

Heat/Wade homers are the only people who think Wade is the best SG.

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Heat/Wade homers are the only people who think Wade is the best SG.[/QUOTE]

I think it has more to do with people unfairly favoring the (near)present over the past. Wade has been playing great recently, but we shouldn't ignore the inconsistencies he showed earlier in the season.

How do we explain Kobe having a losing record with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol, Metta World Peace, and Jamison as teammates? How do we explain Wade embarrasing Kobe in his house Staples Center? Are we really doubting that Wade wouldnt put up 26/5/5 on 44% shooting given Hardens team? Hes put up better numbers in 2011 with LeBron and Bosh on his team. Wade is just as good as both of those guys currently if not better. It is by all means arguable.

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]How do we explain Kobe having a losing record with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol, Metta World Peace, and Jamison as teammates? How do we explain Wade embarrasing Kobe in his house Staples Center? Are we really doubting that Wade wouldnt put up 26/5/5 on 44% shooting given Hardens team? Hes put up better numbers in 2011 with LeBron and Bosh on his team. Wade is just as good as both of those guys currently if not better. It is by all means arguable.[/QUOTE]

People weigh their opinions far too heavily on box score statistics, that (unfortunately) depend heavily on one's role.

Wade would almost certainly put up much better stats on 90% of the other teams in the league, and the vast majority of the people would suddenly assume him a better player.

Wade is finally starting play like he isn't washed up but Kobe is still better than he is. Lebron is running the show in Miami.

[QUOTE=PJR]Give me Wade over both come playoff time. That's for damn sure. Especially considering one in particular likely won't even be there anyway.[/QUOTE]

Oh and the fact he has LeBron.

He isn't the best because of his inconsistency. Kobe has been more consistent.

But he is better than his numbers have shown. Like the OP said, he is playing a career low in minutes and in shot attempts. He could do better if he played more, but you can argue that he cannot play that many minutes because of potentially being injury prone, he wasn't healthy enough, or you don't want to wear him out.

He started off really bad early in the season. He always been a slow starter, but it was worst than usual. He is picking things up later on the season as usual too. He said that he probably won't feel 100% until after the all-star break. Harden performed better consistent throughout the year on offense, but I don't really think he is actually better than Wade. We'll see how Wade plays the second half of the season.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]I think it has more to do with people unfairly favoring the (near)present over the past. Wade has been playing great recently, but we shouldn't ignore the inconsistencies he showed earlier in the season.[/QUOTE]


That's cause he is finally healthy for the 1st time in 2 years, & is now getting back into rhythm. + he has always been known for picking up his game after the allstar break, & then blowing up in the playoffs. ( as long as he is healthy that is.)

I also find it interesting that Wade shots 15.5 shots a game on .505% while Harden takes over 17, at .444%, & Kobe takes over 21, on .462%.
& Wade does it all in less min.

Those who think Harden has been better than Wade are on crack. I'm quite certain that Wade could put up 26 on 44% shooting on the Rockets in the no-defense West, if given free rein. Except, you know, Wade would do it on 50% shooting, given that his career low shooting percentage is 46.5%-- as a rookie. And Wade without James is an automatic 7 apg player. Plus, do we have to talk about defense? (Harden fits in VERY well in the West).

It's tougher to say he's been better than Kobe because #24 is having one of his best seasons at age 34. Still, the fact is that, as of now, the 2013 Lakers represent arguably the biggest team failure in NBA history.

But, regardless, people who don't believe Wade is still an elite superstar aren't good at math. I would flesh that statement out for you, but I have faith that some of you will get it yourselves because you ARE good at math.

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]How do we explain Kobe having a losing record with Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Pau Gasol, Metta World Peace, and Jamison as teammates? How do we explain Wade embarrasing Kobe in his house Staples Center? Are we really doubting that Wade wouldnt put up 26/5/5 on 44% shooting given Hardens team? Hes put up better numbers in 2011 with LeBron and Bosh on his team. Wade is just as good as both of those guys currently if not better. It is by all means arguable.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=jrong]Those who think Harden has been better than Wade are on crack. I'm quite certain that Wade could put up 26 on 44% shooting on the Rockets in the no-defense West, if given free rein.
[/QUOTE]




Who gives a shit what he would do "If"; he's not doing it. The other two have been much better.

Not consistent enough. His bad games get swept under the rug because he's not the main focus of his team

[QUOTE=Whoah10115]Who gives a shit what he would do "If"; he's not doing it. The other two have been much better.[/QUOTE]

No, the other two have more opportunities. Refer to my math comment above. Are you going to penalize Wade individually for the Heat's team dynamics?

And, I'm sorry, Harden can not be better than Wade when he only plays one side of the ball, even if he gets to play Wade's old role (not nearly as well as any version of alpha Wade) and Wade doesn't get to play that role anymore.

It's just asinine to even suggest it and the fact that you would makes me think further discussion is pointless because you don't know how to properly evaluate players (hint: it has to do with the math I keep mentioning). If it's any consolation, though, most fans don't.

[QUOTE=jrong]No, the other two have more opportunities. Refer to my math comment above. Are you going to penalize Wade individually for the Heat's team dynamics?

And, I'm sorry, Harden can not be better than Wade when he only plays one side of the ball, even if he gets to play Wade's old role (not nearly as well as any version of alpha Wade) and Wade doesn't get to play that role anymore.

It's just asinine to even suggest it and the fact that you would makes me think further discussion is pointless because you don't know how to properly evaluate players (hint: it has to do with the math I keep mentioning). If it's any consolation, though, most fans don't.[/QUOTE]



You know what, you're right.


Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA. He should be 1st Team All-NBA. The only reason he isn't is because the coach can't run any kind of offense and isn't more than a high school coach, plus Kobe is nothing but a chucker. We all know that Howard, bad back and all, would be an MVP candidate on any other team. Hell, he's leading the league in rebounds.


Where does he rank in the MVP race? Top 5?


Harden has played better this year...but that's only because Lebron is on the Heat. So let's disregard what's actually happened and judge his season based on what we know could happen. You're 100% right. That's how it should work. Absolutely. It's not retarded at all. Tell me the math thing again. I want to learn. Teach me. Please.


Shut the **** up. Evaluate players or evaluate their season? That's exactly the point I'm making. I think Wade is probably the 2nd best player in the world if he's healthy and not taking a back seat to Lebron. But he's never 100% and he has taken a back seat and thus has not passed Bryant. But please tell me I don't know how to evaluate, when your dumb ass can't bother to recognize where one argument ends and where another begins.

No i have to disagree, not sure if he's been better than Harden.

[QUOTE=Whoah10115]You know what, you're right.


Dwight Howard is the best center in the NBA. He should be 1st Team All-NBA. The only reason he isn't is because the coach can't run any kind of offense and isn't more than a high school coach, plus Kobe is nothing but a chucker. We all know that Howard, bad back and all, would be an MVP candidate on any other team. Hell, he's leading the league in rebounds.


Where does he rank in the MVP race? Top 5?


Harden has played better this year...but that's only because Lebron is on the Heat. So let's disregard what's actually happened and judge his season based on what we know could happen. You're 100% right. That's how it should work. Absolutely. It's not retarded at all. Tell me the math thing again. I want to learn. Teach me. Please.


Shut the **** up. Evaluate players or evaluate their season? That's exactly the point I'm making. I think Wade is probably the 2nd best player in the world if he's healthy and not taking a back seat to Lebron. But he's never 100% and he has taken a back seat and thus has not passed Bryant. But please tell me I don't know how to evaluate, when your dumb ass can't bother to recognize where one argument ends and where another begins.[/QUOTE]

Kobe and Harden are two different conversations. Kobe has earned the presumptive benefit of the doubt, in any case. Kobe has been better than Wade this year. Harden has not.

[QUOTE=DatAsh]He's been the best SG over the last few weeks, but Kobe still his him beat for the year.[/QUOTE]
Listen to this green devil, he knows what he' talking about

[QUOTE=Rysio]how can he be the best shooting guard if he cant shoot. :no:[/QUOTE]

good point

[QUOTE=jrong]Kobe and Harden are two different conversations. Kobe has earned the presumptive benefit of the doubt, in any case. Kobe has been better than Wade this year. Harden has not.[/QUOTE]



Harden has had more impact on the Rockets this season than Wade has had on the Heat. And I don't mean value, relative to importance or any of that. Harden is not only scoring a lot more and averaging a point and a half per attempt, he's had more assists, and has done it at a higher volume. He's also the main guy on his team, bringing everyone into play. Wade has played better defense and rebounded a half rebound more. Harden is a much better offensive player this season. By a lot.

Wade cannot and should not be compared to Kobe and Harden this year. Their situations are completely different so it really skews how to evaluate the players. Both Kobe and Harden have as many touches as they need and have carte blanche to do whatever they want on offense, while Wade has to adjust his game off the ball to the best player in the league.

That being said, there is no way that Harden is a better basketball player than Wade. You give Wade the same freedom on offense that Kobe and Harden have this would be a completely different argument.

James Harden says hi, and I'm including defense.

Give me Wade over Harden. Even statistically its insanely close. Harden's been even more inconsistent than Wade this year, so that's not an excuse.

Even in Kobe's case. People ignore his poor play since LA fans blame it all on the teammates, and believe it or not, that subconsciously sticks in peoples minds even if they don't believe it at the time.
Want the proof? Wade has 6 games shooting less than 40% this season. Kobe has double that. People have just made more of Wade's failures, where as Kobe's teammates have been berated by LA fans. Its hilarious really.

Give me Wade over both anyway. Just because hes taking less shots, and playing a different role, doesn't mean hes declined. People seemed to give Manu the credit for being the 3rd best at one time even though there were SG's putting up better stats. Similar thing is happening in Wade's case.

[QUOTE=plowking]Give me Wade over Harden. Even statistically its insanely close. Harden's been even more inconsistent than Wade this year, so that's not an excuse.

Even in Kobe's case. People ignore his poor play since LA fans blame it all on the teammates, and believe it or not, that subconsciously sticks in peoples minds even if they don't believe it at the time.
Want the proof? Wade has 6 games shooting less than 40% this season. Kobe has double that. People have just made more of Wade's failures, where as Kobe's teammates have been berated by LA fans. Its hilarious really.

Give me Wade over both anyway. Just because hes taking less shots, and playing a different role, doesn't mean hes declined. People seemed to give Manu the credit for being the 3rd best at one time even though there were SG's putting up better stats. Similar thing is happening in Wade's case.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. If Wade had the green light, all his 6/15 games would've turned into Kobe's 10/24 games. He would've scored at least 8 more points in those games and bumped him up in the scoring average to like 24-26 PPG. He'd be shooting 48% instead of 51%, but probably lose a few more games. I guess people much rather see that.

Take whoever you want, but there's nothing close about stats between Wade and Harden. Harden scores more, assists more, steals more, gets more points per attempt, shoots a higher percentage from the FT line and gets there more, shoots higher from the 3. Wade has the higher FG%, his RPG are higher, he ha fewer turnovers and and more blocks...but you look across the stats, it's not close. Even if you account for the disparity in minutes. So that argument is just the argument of a Heat fan.


In context, you're full of shit. There's no argument for Wade having a better season than either guy. If you would prefer him, either because the way he's playing as the 2nd option to Lebron is better for the Heat, or because you think he'll be the better player when it counts, that's fine. I can respect that and to some extent I agree.


But there's no argument on who has been better. None at all. Harden hasn't been inconsistent at all. What, he's had a bad game here and there or a bad stretch? How has he been inconsistent? He hasn't. He leads his team. Wade's impact is not close to Harden's this season. Kobe has been terrific all season. If you watch the games and conclude that his presence is a problem, for whatever reason, then you're having a different conversation...but that would be one thing. If you watch the games and conclude that his level of play is the problem, then you're stupid. If you argue that Wade has been better because he would do better with more opportunities, then you're not making any sense.