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"Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
anyone familiar with this or read it?
[url]http://www.eternea.org/Eben_Alexander/biography_eben.htm[/url]
Dr. Eben Alexander, III, M.D.
someone told me about this book last night, I didn't know about...apparently this man was a atheist Dr. who also assumed that NDEs were products of the brain that we just hadn't been able to explain yet (like many posters here). Then he gets a rare brain desease, "bacterial meningitis-encephalitis" and goes into a coma and flat-lines...comes back a believer in God.
And like everyone that has an NDE, he comes back saying that the afterlife is "more real" than life here on Earth...and there is no one that can tell him that what he had as a dream of some sort.
I will be buying this book :D
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
why pay to read
theres hundreds of NDE stories you can read online for free
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
Misleading title for this book, should be called "how i changed my *opinion* of heaven" or something along those lines.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Stuckey]why pay to read
theres hundreds of NDE stories you can read online for free[/QUOTE]
and I have read many...
there aren't that many written by neurosurgeons though
according to the person that told me about this book, he brings science into the book A LOT...which I think would be refreshing to read about this from someone that is very familiar with the brain, rather than just an average Joe.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Nanners]Misleading title for this book, should be called "how i changed my *opinion* of heaven" or something along those lines.[/QUOTE]
it isn't meant to be literal obviously...just a book title
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
This book was being touted heavily awhile back by some of my super religious friends on Facebook so I ignored it (and I believe in God).
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=The Macho Man]I'm almost certain we discussed this book before.
You hittin the bottle again? Little stressed from that baby?[/QUOTE]
sorry, must have missed that...many of those past threads had a dozen posters throwing things my way so hard to take it all in
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=rufuspaul]This book was being touted heavily awhile back by some of my super religious friends on Facebook so I ignored it (and I believe in God).[/QUOTE]
from what I was told this man is not relgious...I think he does mention Christ and his importance but he is not Christian...claims that all religions point to the same principles...
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Balla_Status]Not this shit again[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb90ajJo821rw5rky.gif[/IMG]
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
This guy duped gullible suckers for a small fortune.
lol.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Budadiiii]This guy duped gullible suckers for a small fortune.
lol.[/QUOTE]
Do you know how much a neurosurgeon earns?
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Budadiiii]This guy duped gullible suckers for a small fortune.
lol.[/QUOTE]
wrong...he runs a nonprofit organization for this...
[QUOTE]Through his nonprofit organization, Eternea, Dr. Alexander has dedicated himself to sharing this information, promoting further research on the unifying elements of science and spirituality, and encouraging people to be inspired by the power of unconditional love in their daily lives and in their work in their communities.[/QUOTE]
like almost all NDEers, he came out devoting his life to charity work...that is super common for people who go through this
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Balla_Status]Not this shit again[/QUOTE]
Tiddy at it again :rockon:
[IMG]http://cdn-media.hollywood.com/images/l/philip-seymour-hoffman-master-teaser.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
I am at it again...
really though, I don't understand why this isn't a fascinating subject to everyone...atheists included
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
As an agnostic leaning towards atheist I do find this subject interesting. Will probs read.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
This book will convert nobody who doesn't already want to be converted.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]
really though, I don't understand why this isn't a fascinating subject to everyone.[/QUOTE]
That's what I said about 9/11... but I guess people are gonna believe whatever the hell they want to,... or not give a $hit.
if you buy that book, let me borrow it after you read it.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Riddler]That's what I said about 9/11... but I guess people are gonna believe whatever the hell they want to,... or not give a $hit.
if you buy that book, let me borrow it after you read it.[/QUOTE]
There are thousands of ideas though that people would say the same thing about. Everyone can't be interested in everything especially when the details are spurious at best.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=miller-time]There are thousands of ideas though that people would say the same thing about. Everyone can't be interested in everything especially when the details are spurious at best.[/QUOTE]
this phenomenon is facisnating no matter what angle you take...
-we know that the people that have NDEs are profoundly changed...of the thousands of stories out there, I have yet to read a single one where the person that had one says "you know, maybe that was just a dream"...and if anyone was to say that? It would be an atheist neurosurgeon.
-we know that everyone has the same experience for the most part...so if they are a "dream" it is facsinating that our brains always produce the same dream for everyone...
-we know that NDEs give people that ability to seperate their consciousness from their brain...we know this from the hundreds of accounts where people can repeat conversations as well as other things that happened in places where there body wasn't located.
-we know that NDEs give people who were born blind the ability to see for the first time in their lives...
if you think that NDEs are a product of the brain, this phenomenon is STILL amazing...
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
Thing that interests me the most is the Out of Body Experience. That's some spooky shit. You're like a freaking ghost temporarily lol
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]Thing that interests me the most is the Out of Body Experience. That's some spooky shit. You're like a freaking ghost temporarily lol[/QUOTE]
I have OBEs all the time when I'm tired from too much work. A month ago I ended up having like 3 in a 5 day period.
I've heard some really good things about the book from a couple of my friends. I think that the guy is full of it, but it will probably be an entertaining read.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
See i can never trust a guy trying to sell a book. He is biased, he has reason to pretend he believes something or had some big revelation. An atheist neurosurgeon is the perfect person to make you go "ooh wow HE believes it". I just dont buy it.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
I'm reading it now, it is interesting, but as a reader it is kind of hard to separate fact from fiction. I'm up to chapter 10 though, so not quite halfway yet.
He is easy to read though. So far I've found the medical facts far more interesting than his ND experiences lol.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=KingBeasley08]Thing that interests me the most is the Out of Body Experience. That's some spooky shit. You're like a freaking ghost temporarily lol[/QUOTE]
The thing about this, is no one really truly knows if this is true or not.. It's not something that can be caught on camera and shown as evidence. When we look at interviews and story's, we really need to give our brain and heart a reason to want to believe. It's something we should be open about though.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=miller-time]I'm reading it now, it is interesting, but as a reader it is kind of hard to separate fact from fiction. I'm up to chapter 10 though, so not quite halfway yet.
He is easy to read though. So far I've found the medical facts far more interesting than his ND experiences lol.[/QUOTE]
Haven't read the book and I'm an NDE believer as well as a believer in God and all that, but if I'm not mistaken, the medical facts that he provides are the fact that medicine and science cannot explain NDE's.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
Eternea huh?
[IMG]http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/tumblr_mb2kelB83t1qbcs46o1_500.jpg[/IMG]
This must have been Larry Bird's NDE then...
(I know, I know, Eternia is spelled differently. Just play along.)
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=The Macho Man]I remember now, I was saying he could have easily made it up and you couldn't even fathom that as a possibility.[/QUOTE]
Yes because you have to actually flat line to have one...its really hard to believe someone decides to make up an elaborate story the very moment they come back from flat lining in ER.
Also, it is pretty excepted that this phenomena really happens to people...perhaps the are a couple liars out there, but def not all of them...
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Haven't read the book and I'm an NDE believer as well as a believer in God and all that, but if I'm not mistaken, the medical facts that he provides are the fact that medicine and science cannot explain NDE's.[/QUOTE]
No they can. Turning to the supernatural and ignoring scientific and practical explanations is not credible despite it coming from the mouth of a neurosurgeon.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=The Macho Man]No, I'm not trying to have the same argument we had a few months ago that you forgot about. I'm just saying you have a shitty memory.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, maybe so :)
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=shlver]No they can. Turning to the supernatural and ignoring scientific and practical explanations is not credible despite it coming from the mouth of a neurosurgeon.[/QUOTE]
No they can not...not right now anyway.
He is trying to combine science and spirituality with his nonprofit organization...there is a science behind "the other side...its just a different plane with a different science book.
The existence of other demintions isnt out of the realm of science
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]No they can not...not right now anyway.
He is trying to combine science and spirituality with his nonprofit organization...there is a science behind "the other side...its just a different plane with a different science book.
The existence of other demintions isnt out of the realm of science[/QUOTE]
I don't have the time to read the book. If you can take the time to outline his scientific points that would be nice.
If not, then read actual papers on anesthesia awareness and biochemical cascades after flatlining and resulting apoptosis. there's plenty of papers that provides practical explanations for NDE's and insights into the process of brain death. If you have not read any of these papers, then you are in no position to say anything about what science has to say on NDE's.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=shlver]I don't have the time to read the book. If you can take the time to outline his scientific points that would be nice.
If not, then read actual papers on anesthesia awareness and biochemical cascades after flatlining and resulting apoptosis. there's plenty of papers that provides practical explanations for NDE's and insights into the process of brain death. If you have not read any of these papers, then you are in no position to say anything about what science has to say on NDE's.[/QUOTE]
Shlver everything trying to explain NDEs right now is theory...there is nothing that every excepts.
It would go against science to rule anything out, including the existence of another plane.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]I am at it again...
really though, I don't understand why this isn't a fascinating subject to everyone...atheists included[/QUOTE]
Because not everyone is retarded
[QUOTE]while in a meningitis-induced coma in 2008 proves that consciousness is independent of the brain, that death is an illusion, and that an eternity of perfect splendor awaits us beyond the grave — complete with angels, clouds, and departed relatives, but also including butterflies and beautiful girls in peasant dress.[/QUOTE]
:roll:
[QUOTE]It would go against science to rule anything out, including the existence of another plane.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Alexander’s book and publicity campaign have been criticized by scientists including neuroscientist Sam Harris who found his account “alarmingly unscientific” and who has written that “Everything — absolutely everything — in Alexander’s account rests on repeated assertions that his visions of heaven occurred while his cerebral cortex was “shut down,” “inactivated,” “completely shut down,” “totally offline,” and “stunned to complete inactivity.” “The evidence he provides for this claim is not only inadequate — it suggests that he doesn’t know anything about the relevant brain science.”[4] “Even in cases where the brain is alleged to have shut down, its activity must return if the subject is to survive and describe the experience. In such cases, there is generally no way to establish that the NDE occurred while the brain was offline.”[5] Neurologist and writer Oliver Sacks agreed with Harris, saying that "to deny the possibility of any natural explanation for an NDE, as Dr. Alexander does, [B][COLOR="Red"]is more than unscientific — it is antiscientific."[/COLOR][/B]..."The one most plausible hypothesis in Dr. Alexander's case...is that his NDE occurred not during his coma, but as he was surfacing from the coma and his cortex was returning to full function. It is curious that he does not allow this obvious and natural explanation, but instead insists on a supernatural one."[/QUOTE]
What's next? Dreams are real?
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]Shlver everything trying to explain NDEs right now is theory...there is nothing that every excepts.
It would go against science to rule anything out, including the existence of another plane.[/QUOTE]
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say with this incoherent post.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
That wasn't hard to understand at all...
Shvler, let's say this guy is telling the truth and in his head HE KNOWS FOR FACT that he saw an afterlife and even God, but obviously he can't prove it. What do you expect him to say? Is he supposed to lie and act as though it might have been a dream? Even though it felt more "real" than life on Earth?
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
This paragraph stood out to me
[quote]It will take me the rest of my life, and then some, to unpack what I learned up there.
The knowledge given me was not “taught” in the way that a history lesson or math
theorem would be. Insights happened directly, rather than needing to be coaxed and
absorbed. Knowledge was stored without memorization, instantly and for good. It
didn’t fade, like ordinary information does, and to this day I still possess all of it, much
more clearly than I possess the information that I gained over all of my years in school.
That’s not to say that I can get to this knowledge just like that. Because now that
I’m back here in the earthly realm, I have to process it through my limited physical
body and brain. But it’s there. I feel it, laid into my very being. For a person like me
who had spent his whole life working hard to accumulate knowledge and understanding
the old-fashioned way, the discovery of this more advanced level of learning was,
alone, enough to give me food for thought for ages to come . . .[/quote]
This is the one thing that gets me about these cases. They never actually bring anything back beyond vague notions of interconnectedness and time being an illusion. Beyond that they never have a solution to a problem that we didn't know about. Not one thing that gives us more information about this world. Sure we get plenty of stuff about the next world but none of that is verifiable. Granted he says that processing the information is limited by his brain's ability, but come on. If you can understand different depths of the afterlife and the beauty of the metaphysical surely you can give us an original thought about something in this world too?
It is easy for brains to come up with fictional constructs, it is much more difficult for them to put together actual working models of reality.
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=miller-time]This paragraph stood out to me
This is the one thing that gets me about these cases. They never actually bring anything back beyond vague notions of interconnectedness and time being an illusion. Beyond that they never have a solution to a problem that we didn't know about. Not one iota that gives us more information about this world. Sure we get plenty of stuff about the next world but none of that is verifiable. Granted he says that processing the information is limited by his brain's ability, but come on. If you can understand different depths of the afterlife and the beauty of the metaphysical surely you can give us an original thought about something in this world too?[/QUOTE]
because many of them claim to have seen the future you expect them to come back with the cure for cancer or something? ha, never thought of that.
perhaps that would mess up our destiny or something...
Miller, let me ask you, do you beleive that eveything this man put into that book he truly believes himself? Does he come off as sincere/genuine?
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Re: "Proof of Heaven" - best selling book by athiest neurosurgeon that had an NDE
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]because many of them claim to have seen the future you expect them to come back with the cure for cancer or something? ha, never thought of that.[/quote]
It doesn't even have to be something that big. Just a tidbit of new information. Not philosophical or spiritual, but natural.
[quote]Miller, let me ask you, do you beleive that eveything this man put into that book he truly believes himself? Does he come off as sincere/genuine?[/QUOTE]
He seems genuine. I don't doubt he had those experiences and he believes they are real. I just think they aren't really that interesting or original. I haven't finished the book yet but the parts I have found most interesting were from his own life, his adoption, his medical career, his experience of having meningitis. The NDE is more elaborate than most, but it still doesn't me think it could be anything but a product of the human mind.