Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson - Who was the better player All Time?

I'd have to go with Larry. Back in the 80s, he was always considered the better player of the two and was being called the GOAT back then before MJ. My All Time list goes MJ, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Bird, Magic.

Well, Magic had a more successful career with more accolades. He had 2 more rings, 1 more finals MVP and played longer. That's what people who didn't watch the game back then ultimately look at.

However, in their prime, it was no argument. Larry was better. If Larry's back didn't give up on him that early, he would have unquestionably gone down better overall than Magic.

Never saw either play but I've heard many times that Bird was considered the better player in the 80s.

Magic had a stronger roster with Kareem and Worthy. Wasn't the East stronger than the West too? The East had the Sixers, Bulls, Pistons and Celtics, who was challenging the Lakers in the West?

Personally speaking

[B][SIZE="3"]Larry Bird[/SIZE][/B]

-He was a fantastic player.

-A coaches dream to build a franchise.

-An oppositions worse nightmare.

-Almost a weapon on the court who never needed ball in his hand to absolutely DOMINATE the game.

-He positioned himself excellently.

-He slithered thru defenses sometimes literally went unrecornized till he hits CLUTCH basket after CLUTCH basket.

-He got to 25 ppg without even his own team knowing it.

-The best OFF THE BALL player ever. Got to 10+ rpg in no time. Got to 8 apg in no time.

-deadly post-up game that never wasted a dribble or energy.

-a team mates DREAM player. teammates AUTOMATICALLY got better playing with LEGEND.

-Top 5 GOATs to ever play the game.

Larry was clearly the better player. He was also older and more mature when they first came into the league. Had Larry came in when he was 19 he would have won at least a couple more MVP's.

Magic was the best floor general, I ever saw. Both were a Joy to watch. You can't go wrong either way.

Prime: Larry
Career: Magic

Overall: Larry by a smidgen.

Bird was the better forward, magic the better guard.

I prefer bird's game over magic's though.

Magic is the best passer of all time. I'll take him.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]Well, Magic had a more successful career with more accolades. He had 2 more rings, 1 more finals MVP and played longer. That's what people who didn't watch the game back then ultimately look at.

However, in their prime, it was no argument. Larry was better. If Larry's back didn't give up on him that early, he would have unquestionably gone down better overall than Magic.[/QUOTE]

This.

larry bird as a player, magic has better resume

Magic dragged an on his way out Worthy,young Vlade and Sam Perkins into the NBA Finals

and beat a peak Blazers team to do it..



If Kidd could drag the NEW JERSEY NETS into the finals...I'm convinced that peak Magic could be added to any contender/ or decent talented team in modern era and take them over the top...

can't say that about Bird...

Magic is a greatest of all time player.

Bird is an era-specific player.

[QUOTE=9erempiree]Magic is a greatest of all time player.

Bird is an era-specific player.[/QUOTE]

This is without a doubt the worst post I have ever seen. Even by a troll.

[QUOTE=get these NETS][B]Magic dragged an on his way out Worthy,young Vlade and Sam Perkins into the NBA Finals

and beat a peak Blazers team to do it..[/B]


If Kidd could drag the NEW JERSEY NETS into the finals...I'm convinced that peak Magic could be added to any contender/ or decent talented team in modern era and take them over the top...

can't say that about Bird...[/QUOTE]

Great point about Magic. I get tired of those that claim that he had Kareem. The fact was, he carried an awful Kareem to a title in '88, and with the surrounding talent LA had in '87, I have no doubt that they would have won by giving more minutes to Thompson and Green, and without Kareem, in that season. And, had Magic not been injured in game two of the '89 Finals, he might have won yet another ring.

Then, after Kareem retired following the '89 season, Magic took a team that had gone 57-25 the year before, and with Kareem, to a 63-19 record, without Kareem.

And, as posted above, he took an injury-riddled, and rapidly declining LA team to a 58-24 record, and a trip to the Finals the next season (his last.)

How did LA do after Magic retired? They plummetted to a 43-39 record, and followed that up with a 39-43 record the next year.

And early on, all Magic did was take a severely under-achieving team to a 60-22 record in his rookie season, and then, in a game six, on the road, and without Kareem, led LA to a world title, with a monster 42-15-7 game. Two years later he would take over the team, and lead them to yet another title, winning another FMVP in the process.

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]Well, [B][U]Magic[/U][/B] had a more successful career with more accolades. He had 2 more rings, 1 more finals MVP and [B][U]played longer[/U][/B]. That's what people who didn't watch the game back then ultimately look at.

However, in their prime, it was no argument. Larry was better. If Larry's back didn't give up on him that early, he would have unquestionably gone down better overall than Magic.[/QUOTE]

:confusedshrug:
Magic retired in '91. Bird retired in '92...unless you're counting Magic's brief comeback in '96

[QUOTE=K Xerxes]This is without a doubt the worst post I have ever seen. Even by a troll.[/QUOTE]

remember. a kobe'tard a full retard will always show his true colors at some point.

Kobe is the only one who is era specific.

I cannot see kobe outperforming Dominique or Clyde in '80s or '90s.

Bird has transformed the game forever.

Bird singlehandedly showed athleticism is EXTREMELY OVERRATED.

Jordan frequently said, if he had to pick a starting 5 for the team. Bird is an AUTOMATIC first player to be picked.

[QUOTE=jlip]:confusedshrug:
Magic retired in '91. Bird retired in '92...unless you're counting Magic's brief comeback in '96[/QUOTE]

Magic played at a higer level longer. By 88-89, Bird suffered from awful back injuries. I think he even admitted he should have retired back then.

There are some things that Magic did better than Bird and vice versa.

Most of the time, Magic normally don't disappoint in the playoffs. He shoots a very high percentage because he picked his shots very well, better than Bird. He'll take over when needed.

Bird didn't have guys that free him up early on in his career like Magic, but in his prime, I like Bird's game better. IMO, I think he was better in the post although Magic was not bad himself, off the ball, shooter, and a better post defender.

You can't really go wrong with either. If you want a point guard, pick Magic. If you want a SF/PF, you pick Bird.

I gotta go with Larry. His injuries really spoiled what could have been several very productive years.

Larry and the 86 Celtics...that was me losing my basketball virginity. When Larry was on, there was just nothing like it until Jordan came along and took the crown of GOAT.

These guys playing together...might have been the best basketball ever to occur had it happened more frequently.

Well, Magic repeatedly outplayed Peak Bird in the Finals despite being 3 years younger so...

I value Larry more myself because he had the entire package like nobody else. He was an unstoppable scorer, he gave you 10 boards, 6-7 assist and HE PLAYED DEFENSE. That is the main distinction between Bird and Magic to me. Larry before his back problems was an excellent team/help defender and for my money that is more important that being some "stopper". You affect the game more when you are great team/help defender (i'll take Jason Kidd in his prime defensively vs Gary payton anytime of the week). Magic on the other hand was average at best on defense.

magic

It seems as if Bird was considered better from '80 to '86. The '87 Finals is when people started saying that Magic was better.

[QUOTE=Smoke117]I value Larry more myself because he had the entire package like nobody else. He was an unstoppable scorer, he gave you 10 boards, 6-7 assist and HE PLAYED DEFENSE. That is the main distinction between Bird and Magic to me. Larry before his back problems was an excellent team/help defender and for my money that is more important that being some "stopper". You affect the game more when you are great team/help defender (i'll Jason Kidd in his prime defensively vs Gary payton anytime of the weak). Magic on the other hand was average at best on defense.[/QUOTE]

:roll: Bird couldn't guard ANYONE man to man. Magic could at least matchup with guys around his own size even if he had trouble with little guys....and he [B]led [/B]the league in steals.

Statistically, Bird was a better player. Magic had a greater impact on the game itself. I think Magic is better overall and had a better career, but Magic never had the injuries that Bird had. Also Magic played way better defense.

While Bird was considered the best player in the league in the mid-80's, I believe Magic was actually the better player in the ealry 80's, and certainly from '87 on.

Magic was somewhat under-rated in the early 80's, because he had Kareem as a teammate. And while an early 80's Kareem was still a formidable player, by '82 Magic was already the better player. And Magic's play in the post-season in '80 and '82 was just sensational.

And I always get a laugh out of those that mention "Tragic" Johnson in the '84 Finals. Yep...a "Tragic" who averaged 18 ppg, led his team in rebounding, averaged 13 apg, and shot .560 from the floor.

Overall, Magic had the better career, and was a better post-season performer.

Magic

Bird is just an era-specific player.. His ceiling in today's league would be Scalabrine at best..

[QUOTE=KOBE143]Magic

Bird is just an era-specific player.. His ceiling in today's league would be Scalabrine at best..[/QUOTE]

I agree. And players like a prime Nash and Kevin Love would be nothing in other eras, as well.

Larry no question and ppl overrated Magic playing longer. They both have 10 allnba teams both 9 1st and 1 2nd. Plus Larry got alldefense teams he was better allaround player for sure

[QUOTE=KOBE143]Magic

Bird is just an era-specific player.. His ceiling in today's league would be Scalabrine at best..[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Where's that dumbest things said on ISH thread?

[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG]Larry no question and [B]ppl overrated Magic playing longer[/B]. They both have 10 allnba teams both 9 1st and 1 2nd. Plus Larry got alldefense teams he was better allaround player for sure[/QUOTE]

Yeah... let's punish Magic for playing better, longer. In his last full season, all he did was average 19.4 ppg, .477 FG%, .906 FT%, .320 3pt%, 7.0 rpg, and 12.5 apg. Oh, and led a crumbling Laker team to a 58-24 record, and a trip to the Finals. Does anyone in their right mind honestly believe that had Magic not had his career cut short by HIV, that he wouldn't have been an elite player for at least a couple of more seasons?

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Yeah... let's punish Magic for playing better, longer. In his last full season, all he did was average 19.4 ppg, .477 FG%, .906 FT%, .320 3pt%, 7.0 rpg, and 12.5 apg. Oh, and led a crumbling Laker team to a 58-24 record, and a trip to the Finals. Does anyone in their right mind honestly believe that had Magic not had his career cut short by HIV, that he wouldn't have been an elite player for at least a couple of more seasons?[/QUOTE]
He played more than Larry but they still have the same amount of allnba teams:confusedshrug: if larry didnt fix his mas pavement by himself he wouldnt have back problems and hed undoubtebtly go down better than magic he was flatout better in their primes:no:

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]I agree. And players like a prime Nash and Kevin Love would be nothing in other eras, as well.[/QUOTE]
Maybe Nash and Love wouldn't be the same in other era but Im sure they could end up as a decent starter and would've a high chance to be an allstar in any era..

I give much respect to Bird, but I gotta go with Magic. He was the most unselfish player ever, the best passer the game has ever known, he could take over games offensively when he wanted, could post up and bang inside, rebound, was a great free throw shooter, he just did it all and made everyone that he played with better. His only faults were, he wasn't a great outside shooter,(but he was respectable later in his career), and he had trouble guarding small quick point guards(to be fair they had trouble with him also).

I always lean Magic. 9 Finals appearances is one of the greatest runs by any player or team.

[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG]He played more than Larry but they still have the same amount of allnba teams:confusedshrug: if larry didnt fix his mas pavement by himself he wouldnt have back problems and [B]hed undoubtebtly go down better than magic he was flatout better in their primes[/B]:no:[/QUOTE]

Clearly not the case. Better, perhaps, but in Bird's greatest regular season, he had a horrible post-season, culminated by a pathetic performance against the Pistons, in which he shot .341 in a six game series loss. How did Magic perform against that Piston team? 21.6 ppg on .550 shooting.

If anything, the separation was much greater from '87 on, than what it was before that.

And people tend to forget that Magic could have been a much higher scorer. I believe Psileas commented that later in his career, Magic had a streak of 11 straight games of 30+ points. Of course, how about his game six of the '80 Finals, and without Kareem, when he scored 42 on 14-23 shooting (and 14-14 from the line)? Or a clinching game three against Hakeem's Rockets in the late 80's, in which he scored 38 points on 14-20 shooting.

Furthermore, Magic was a much more efficient shooter, particularly in the post-season. Bird never had a Finals in which he shot above .488 (and one in which he shot .419.) Magic had FIVE in which he shot over 50% including .573, .560, .550, and .541.

To me, Bird was unquestionably the better player until '87, and the two were very close in '87 and '88. After that, it was obviously Magic.

Prime vs prime, it's close. Take say '85-'88 Bird compared to '87-'90 Magic, or '84-'88 Bird vs '87-'91 Magic and you can't go wrong with either, but I'll take Bird. Difficult to compare them as players since it depends on what you favor. Both were arguably the best rebounders to ever play their position, and Magic was arguably the best passer of all-time, but Bird was the greatest passing forward ever, and certainly a top 10 passer overall, imo. Bird was the better scorer, though Magic became a very good scorer himself later in his career to the point you had to double him in the post, but he'd pick apart the doubles. Bird was definitely the better defender, though.

[QUOTE=KOBE143]Maybe Nash and Love wouldn't be the same in other era but Im sure they could end up as a decent starter and would've a high chance to be an allstar in any era..[/QUOTE]

Yet, I am supposed to believe a Bird would be nothing more than a Scalabrine in today's NBA?

Makes no sense. Didn't Bird play in an era of MJ, Dr.J, Magic, Isaiah, Kareem, Moses, Hakeem, Dominque, etc? And yet he was considered the best player in the league in a few of those seasons? But then, perhaps, mayeb you are suggesting that all of those guys would be scrubs in today's NBA.

Too close to call for me depends what your team needs at the time

I was born after all that but seems to me Magic was pretty much better in every way :confusedshrug:

I just don't see the argument for Bird. People saying stuff like "Bird was the better player" but there's absolutely nothing to support it.