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we haven't had one of these in a while and everyone can create their list with whatever assumptions based on health e.g. westbrook/rose/kobe for [b]this upcoming season[/b]
1. LBJ
2. Durant
3. Howard
4. Carmelo
5. Westbrook
6. Rondo
7. Rose
8. TP
9. Wade
10. Paul George
That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.
When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)
5. Paul (20 and 10 with great D)
6. Duncan (Amazing post game and dominating D)
7. Westbrook (Great all around freak athlete)
8. Melo (Most versatile scorer in the league)
9. Williams (Most versatile player at PG)
10. Rose (Freak athlete and great finisher)
Howard? Seriously?! :facepalm
Don't hate on Howard folks. He is by far the best big man in the game and when healthy (which he is this year) he will be not only lead the league in rebounds and blocks but also give you 22 points a game on very good percentage. Free throws? Yeah he can't make them but lets wait and see. This guy and Lebron both led very very bad players to the damn finals.
[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.
When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)
5. Paul (20 and 10 with great D)
6. Duncan (Amazing post game and dominating D)
7. Westbrook (Great all around freak athlete)
8. Melo (Most versatile scorer in the league)
9. Williams (Most versatile player at PG)
10. Rose (Freak athlete and great finisher)[/QUOTE]
Only difference between our list is that you had Kobe and assumed that he will play better then Westbrook/Melo/Rose/Paul at 35 years old coming off a achilles rupture. You also put a 37 year old Duncan who plays very limited minutes above most most of the said above players for the upcoming season. Can you explain?
22ppg is not impressive.
Duncan is definitely top 10 still. I would takeout Melo and put George into the top 10.
[QUOTE=retaxis]Only difference between our list is that you had Kobe and assumed that he will play better then Westbrook/Melo/Rose/Paul at 35 years old coming off a achilles rupture. You also put a 37 year old Duncan who plays very limited minutes above most most of the said above players for the upcoming season. Can you explain?[/QUOTE]
Because they were elite players last season and they arnt going to just drop off, and you have to assume they will be elite until they actually show decline. Do you think that NBA coaches are thinking that Kobe is going to suck when he comes back? No, they're preparing for his same old dominant self.
I also didn't put Rondo, who is one of the most flawed players in the league, at #6.
[QUOTE=retaxis]Only difference between our list is that you had Kobe and assumed that he will play better then Westbrook/Melo/Rose/Paul at 35 years old coming off a achilles rupture. You also put a 37 year old Duncan who plays very limited minutes above most most of the said above players for the upcoming season. Can you explain?[/QUOTE]
There still isn't a PF in the league I would take over Duncan when it matters. Even at 37 and limited minutes, he is the best.
[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]Because they were elite players last season and they arnt going to just drop off, and you have to assume they will be elite until they actually show decline. Do you think that NBA coaches are thinking that Kobe is going to suck when he comes back? No, they're preparing for his same old dominant self.
I also didn't put Rondo, who is one of the most flawed players in the league, at #6.[/QUOTE]
I can't agree with the Kobe opinion because of the injury and I question his defence last year but each to their own opinion. I don't understand what your talking about what coaches are 'thinking or preparing. From most peoples perspective including people in the NBA like Chuck and etc the Lakers are going to 'stink bro'.
P.S Rondo has some serious skills and he plays very hard in the play offs. Wouldn't underestimate him he gets triple doubles easier then Lebron.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]There still isn't a PF in the league I would take over Duncan when it matters. Even at 37 and limited minutes, he is the best.[/QUOTE]
He is the best PF to play the game but that doesn't mean he is top ten this upcoming season. Spurs has a good system which benefits TP and then Duncan when defence collapses on TP. Remember Timmy is playing off TP not the other way around anymore.
[QUOTE=retaxis]He is the best PF in the game but that doesn't mean he is top ten this upcoming season. Spurs has a good system which benefits TP and then Duncan when defence collapses on TP. Remember Timmy is playing off TP.[/QUOTE]
I understand. I just have trouble keeping him out of the top 10. But you make good points also. Im not much of list maker myself for these things anyways. I tend to get stuck on where I put the point guards.
[QUOTE=retaxis]He is the best PF to play the game but that doesn't mean he is top ten this upcoming season. [B]Spurs has a good system which benefits TP and then Duncan [/B]when defence collapses on TP. Remember Timmy is playing off TP not the other way around anymore.[/QUOTE]
Dwight Howard gets spoon fed religiously and mainly only makes easy baskets I don't see how you can penalize Duncan for that yet completely ignore the fact Dwight needs a ton of spoon feeding and can't pass out of doubles.
[QUOTE=andremiller07]Dwight Howard gets spoon fed religiously and mainly only makes easy baskets I don't see how you can penalize Duncan for that yet completely ignore the fact Dwight needs a ton of spoon feeding and can't pass out of doubles.[/QUOTE]
Elites guards have more impact on the game than elites Big in this Era but elites Big are way more difficult to find
[QUOTE=andremiller07]Dwight Howard gets spoon fed religiously and mainly only makes easy baskets I don't see how you can penalize Duncan for that yet completely ignore the fact Dwight needs a ton of spoon feeding and can't pass out of doubles.[/QUOTE]
Dwight is probably the most criticized superstar in the game. Im not saying you're wrong. But you have always had kind of a bias towards athletic big men.
Ranking should be done based on gaps since most of the players aren't that much ahead of each other.
1) Lebron
huge gap
2) Durant
little gap
3-7) Kobe/Wade/Paul/Westbrook/Melo/Deron/Rose/Parker/playoff Rondo are in the same tier if all healthy. Harden still unproven though.
8-10) Howard/Duncan/Noah in a similar tier as far as bigs go
Issue with the PGs/SGs is the fact almost every one of them can be locked up with a bigger/longer but just as athletic defender on them. Westbrook is the rare one that doesn't care, usually he is the one shutting himself down.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Dwight is probably the most criticized superstar in the game. Im not saying you're wrong. But you have always had kind of a bias towards athletic big men.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I agree, look Dwight is excellent player (and yes I as bias but I still am not blinded that much by hate that I can't see he's a elite player) but my point is you can't take away points from Duncan (for the rankings) just cause he plays with Tony Parker and not take anything away from Dwight since he was unable to do a lot of things this past season on offense in particular.
[QUOTE=andremiller07]Yeah I agree, look Dwight is excellent player (and yes I as bias but I still am not blinded that much by hate that I can't see he's a elite player) but my point is you can't take away points from Duncan (for the rankings) just cause he plays with Tony Parker and not take anything away from Dwight since he was unable to do a lot of things this past season on offense in particular.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, I think you both make good points. TP is a baller, but Duncan is still their most important player imo. And Dwight still looks like hot garbage trying to create his own shot. But when it comes to overall impact, the guy can still give you 18ppg, elite defense, and lead the league in rebounding.
[QUOTE=Graviton]Ranking should be done based on gaps since most of the players aren't that much ahead of each other.
1) Lebron
huge gap
2) Durant
little gap
3-7) Kobe/Wade/Paul/Westbrook/Melo/Deron/Rose/Parker/playoff Rondo are in the same tier if all healthy. Harden still unproven though.
8-10) Howard/Duncan/Noah in a similar tier as far as bigs go
Issue with the PGs/SGs is the fact almost every one of them can be locked up with a bigger/longer but just as athletic defender on them. Westbrook is the rare one that doesn't care, usually he is the one shutting himself down.[/QUOTE]
Noah is definitely underrated. Dwight is the only center I would take over him at the moment. Not a huge Marc Gasol fan.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Honestly, I think you both make good points. TP is a baller, but Duncan is still their most important player imo. And Dwight still looks like hot garbage trying to create his own shot. But when it comes to overall impact, the guy can still give you 18ppg, elite defense, and lead the league in rebounding.[/QUOTE]
Numbers aside on pure impact on a game and who is more likely to win you a game who would you take than? To me impact is more important than just numbers.
Lebron
Durant
Paul
Howard
Harden
Dirk
Melo
Wade
M. Gasol
Bosh
I left out any seriously injured player... mostly, Kobe, Rose, Westbrook, Love.. for the purposes of this thread.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Noah is definitely underrated. Dwight is the only center I would take over him at the moment. Not a huge Marc Gasol fan.[/QUOTE]
Yea Gasol is overrated as ****. Noah is even a better passer/playmaker than him and Bulls actually run their offense through him out of the high post. But Gasol gets some flashy behind the back passes and he gets all this hype as the best passing big while Noah is busy getting triple doubles. Noah is also the better defender and rebounder. Gasol's DPOY was a joke, Duncan/Noah showed in the playoffs how overhyped Gasol is. Dude is too passive and soft, 7 foot huge skilled player out there playing like he is a bench warmer. Duncan and Noah got that fire, Gasoft doesnt just like his bro.
[QUOTE=retaxis]I can't agree with the Kobe opinion because of the injury and I question his defence last year but each to their own opinion. I don't understand what your talking about what coaches are 'thinking or preparing. From most peoples perspective including people in the NBA like Chuck and etc the Lakers are going to 'stink bro'.
P.S Rondo has some serious skills and he plays very hard in the play offs. Wouldn't underestimate him he gets triple doubles easier then Lebron.[/QUOTE]
Rondo is a very good player, but I can't see putting him over the more versatile PGs like Williams, Parker and Rose.
[QUOTE=andremiller07]Numbers aside on pure impact on a game and who is more likely to win you a game who would you take than? To me impact is more important than just numbers.[/QUOTE]
I would definitely take Duncan still. I might be kind of biased because I just saw TD dominate at times in the Finals. But if I need one game to win, im still taking him over Dwight. I like Dwight a lot, but I don't think you can win with him as your best player. And thats not even because of his ugly offense. The guy is just too immature. I mean, it wasn't that long ago he was the best player on a team that went to the Finals and ECF the next season. Its amazing to me he still hasn't really grown up.
[QUOTE=Graviton]Yea Gasol is overrated as ****. Noah is even a better passer/playmaker than him and Bulls actually run their offense through him out of the high post. But Gasol gets some flashy behind the back passes and he gets all this hype as the best passing big while Noah is busy getting triple doubles. Noah is also the better defender and rebounder. Gasol's DPOY was a joke, Duncan/Noah showed in the playoffs how overhyped Gasol is. Dude is too passive and soft, 7 foot huge skilled player out there playing like he is a bench warmer. Duncan and Noah got that fire, Gasoft doesnt just like his bro.[/QUOTE]
Gasol isn't soft at all, this is literally the first time I heard this. I would personally take Gasol over Noah, because of his better post game and mid range shot. I also think he's better than Noah on defense against other bigs, however Noah is better on switches and P n R.
[QUOTE=kshutts1]Lebron
Durant
Paul
Howard
Harden
Dirk
Melo
Wade
M. Gasol
Bosh
I left out any seriously injured player... mostly, Kobe, Rose, Westbrook, Love.. for the purposes of this thread.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Gasol or Bosh are top 10. I would honestly put Noah there if we aren't counting Westbrook, Kobe, or Rose.
[QUOTE=Graviton]Yea Gasol is overrated as ****. Noah is even a better passer/playmaker than him and Bulls actually run their offense through him out of the high post. But Gasol gets some flashy behind the back passes and he gets all this hype as the best passing big while Noah is busy getting triple doubles. Noah is also the better defender and rebounder. Gasol's DPOY was a joke, Duncan/Noah showed in the playoffs how overhyped Gasol is. Dude is too passive and soft, 7 foot huge skilled player out there playing like he is a bench warmer. Duncan and Noah got that fire, Gasoft doesnt just like his bro.[/QUOTE]
Im going to have to agree here. Noah on one foot dominated Brook Lopez and was hell for the Heat with his help defense. Gasol has nice offensive game and all that, but give me Noah's fire and leadership. Plus, I don't care what the numbers might say, Noah is a better defender.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Im going to have to agree here. Noah on one foot dominated Brook Lopez and was hell for the Heat with his help defense. Gasol has nice offensive game and all that, but give me Noah's fire and leadership. Plus, I don't care what the numbers might say, Noah is a better defender.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you. I would only put a healthy Howard in front of Noah.
[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]Gasol isn't soft at all, this is literally the first time I heard this. I would personally take Gasol over Noah, because of his better post game and mid range shot. I also think he's better than Noah on defense against other bigs, however Noah is better on switches and P n R.[/QUOTE]
Gasol's better post game and jumpshot is irrelevant because he is not a dominant scorer. Too passive when he should be dominating. Noah can score the same points on same efficiency off hustle and energy. Noah is also the MUCH better rebounder and defender in the post or perimeter. Noah's Game 7 vs Nets>>>Gasol's career.
[QUOTE=DaSeba5]I agree with you. I would only put a healthy Howard in front of Noah.[/QUOTE]
:cheers:
[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]Rondo is a very good player, but I can't see putting him over the more versatile PGs like Williams, Parker and Rose.[/QUOTE]
I think you overrated Deron. He is a nice PG. But he isn't a great defender and doesn't always play hard. The guy is kind of a whiny bitch. I don't think CP3 would have lost to Nate Robinson's Bulls.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]I think you overrated Deron. He is a nice PG. But he isn't a great defender and doesn't always play hard. The guy is kind of a whiny bitch. I don't think CP3 would have lost to Nate Robinson's Bulls.[/QUOTE]
I still can't believe they lost to Chicago's bench on their home floor in a game 7
I think it's pretty hard to do 1-10 ranked, so I'll just use tiers.
God tier: James
Demi-God tier: Durant
Top 5 contenders: Howard*, Rose*, Paul, Westbrook*
Bottom half of top 10: Parker, Harden, Duncan, Wade/Bryant
*Assuming they get back to full health and their previous best.
Wade is pretty hard to rank because he's a top 5 contender when healthy, even at this stage, but he's barely top 20 at times because of his knee. So he's about 10, Kobe is uncertain because of his age.
[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.
When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer [B]plus elite D)[/B][/QUOTE]
Is this a joke?
Look, all respect to Kobe for beasting at age 34, but he was atrocious defensively last season. As was the entire Lakers team, but he wasn't anywhere near 'elite D'
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]There still isn't a PF in the league I would take over Duncan when it matters. Even at 37 and limited minutes, he is the best.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Duncan, like LeBron and Kobe are truly special players that I feel lucky to have seen in realtime.
What Duncan did last year was incredible. His defense is elite and his post moves are beautiful in fundamentals and fluidity.
He rarely makes bad decisions and doesn't worry about his statline doing whatever is required to get a win.
He is the epitome of professionalism and handles everything with class.
[QUOTE=DaSeba5]I still can't believe they lost to Chicago's bench on their home floor in a game 7[/QUOTE]
Yea, i still can't get over that. Absolutely pathetic.
[QUOTE=upside24]I agree. Duncan, like LeBron and Kobe are truly special players that I feel lucky to have seen in realtime.
What Duncan did last year was incredible. His defense is elite and his post moves are beautiful in fundamentals and fluidity.
He rarely makes bad decisions and doesn't worry about his statline doing whatever is required to get a win.
He is the epitome of professionalism and handles everything with class.[/QUOTE]
Great post. Watching the finals, Parker can be more noticeable with his shots in the lane and dribbling around defenders. But Duncan is the guy you're legit afraid of down the stretch. The guy anchored their defense all series and was a monster on offense at times. There was a point i would be shocked when he missed a shot.
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]I don't think Gasol or Bosh are top 10. I would honestly put Noah there if we aren't counting Westbrook, Kobe, or Rose.[/QUOTE]
Gasol is one of the top 4 defensive big men in the league but, in relation to Noah, he's also a legit scoring option. I love Noah, and I'd put him top 15... but not sure he's better than Marc Gasol.
As for Bosh, I can't help but believe that Bosh is still a legit first option, masquerading as a third option because he prefers to win as the third option.
If Bosh were the go-to player, I'd see him having significantly better stats than Griffin, LA, etc, while potentially leading his team to the playoffs.
Noah, again, is a great player, but I don't believe that he brings enough to the table offensively. Though he is closer to Bosh than he is to MGasol.
HM would go to Griffin, LA, Parker, Noah (in no order).
[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]Yea, i still can't get over that. Absolutely pathetic.[/QUOTE]
Noah on one leg went Hakeem mode and dominated on both ends. That defense was a treat to watch. Also that crackhead looking mofo Marco went ham and Jimmy boy shut the perimeter down. I saw the stats from ESPN before game saying the home team wins Game 7s over 80% of the time. But I knew Thibs da gawd wasnt gonna bend over. Heart and balls are important.
[QUOTE=The JKidd Kid]That is one of the worst top 10s I've seen in a long time.
When Healthy
1. Lebron (Best player in the league)
2. Durant (30 PPG on 50, 40, 90)
3. Dwight (Dominant defensive presence)
4. Kobe (Amazing scorer plus elite D)
5. Paul (20 and 10 with great D)
6. Duncan (Amazing post game and dominating D)
7. Westbrook (Great all around freak athlete)
8. Melo (Most versatile scorer in the league)
9. Williams (Most versatile player at PG)
10. Rose (Freak athlete and great finisher)[/QUOTE]
DWill over Rose? And if we're going for 'when healthy' wade is top 5. Kobe hasn't played elite D in years. He doesn't even play D nowadays.
1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. CP3
5. Westbrook
6. Howard
7. Curry
8. Parker
9. Melo
10. Harden