Why is Roy Hibbert so bad at finishing at the rim?

Ive been reading a lot of preview stuff in the lead up to the season, and ive randomly seen hibbert ranked among the worst finishers in the league. hes always seemed bad for a player his size, but hes really among the worst in the league, and by far the worst of any center getting legit minutes.

[url]http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx?team=%25&type=pg&posi=%25&yr=2013&gp2=20&mins=20[/url]

hes obviously huge, with long arms, and seems to have a pretty strong base, so why is he so bad? hes got decent touch on his hook shots, is his touch at the rim somehow worse?

is it just because he posts up a lot, and doesnt get easy drop off passes from teammates, because the pacers dont have any great playmakers, so most of his looks at the basket are more contested than most other centers?

From what I've seen from him he's usually off balanced and he rushes his shots down low...plus he has no touch or finesse to his game so he's prone to shooting the ball off the glass to hard

He worked with Duncan this off season so maybe he taught him a thing or two

He is even worse than Melo:eek:

his preseason wrist injury that probably came about from doing MMA sparring dragged him down a lot last year. he did a local radio interview around January or so last year and after plenty of Pacers fans saying WTF he said his shooting hand felt like he was shooting with a stump.

post-All Star Break he vastly improved and that obviously continued into the playoffs. but really that's not a major excuse. obviously a prolonged injury to the wrist of your shooting hand is going to hurt, but it's not like he's ever been impressively efficient.

biggest issue I've seen through his career is really Indy not having players that force posts to shade off Hibbert. when we want to post Hibbert, WE WANT TO POST HIBBERT. Hibbert's obviously a slow dude, he's not catching the ball on the move off a pick and slip or working off a couple down screens for a little jumper or anything. it's plant your big ass on the block and go to work.

those results have been middling. but he's stellar with the little baby hook over either shoulder that there aren't many guys in the league that can give a legitimate contest. assuming we can get him the ball on his initial seal, that's been a problem and may continue to be. the rookie Solomon Hill will get minutes specifically because of his post entry passing. his career to to this point has been asking him to do things he just can't, he can catch an entry and go to either shoulder immediately and it'll be fairly efficient, but he's not about to DreamShake guys after spending 8 seconds just getting in position to get the initial pass.

all that said, his scoring doesn't matter. he's the best rim defender in the league and our entire non-switching funnel guys to the lane or give up the long 2 is completely centered on Hibbert. short of Paul George making some really massive isolation strides our offense just isn't going to be pretty. but who gives a shit, you're not gonna score more than us most nights.

[QUOTE] [B]biggest issue I've seen through his career is really Indy not having players that force posts to shade off Hibbert.[/B] when we want to post Hibbert, WE WANT TO POST HIBBERT. Hibbert's obviously a slow dude, he's not catching the ball on the move off a pick and slip or working off a couple down screens for a little jumper or anything. it's plant your big ass on the block and go to work.[/QUOTE]

do you mean, the pacers dont have guys to draw attention away from hibbert, so hibberts man is never forced to leave him, so its harded for hibbert to get deeper position?

good post btw

[QUOTE=#number6ix#]He worked with Duncan this off season so maybe he taught him a thing or two[/QUOTE]

i think they have worked together for a couple off-seasons now, and it doesnt seem to have helped.

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]He is even worse than Melo:eek:[/QUOTE]

hes worse than jj barea :biggums:

He's worse than Perkins :facepalm

I remember that one game against miami him and david west must have missed 10 bunnies in one half:facepalm

[quote=chips93]do you mean, the pacers dont have guys to draw attention away from hibbert, so hibberts man is never forced to leave him, so its harded for hibbert to get deeper position?

good post btw[/quote]a little of both I guess, but more that there's no Pacer that demands a double at all that can force the defense out of position. hopefully Paul George makes the next step towards that, hopefully Granger being back makes defenses have to space farther out. but that's just hoping and wishing stuff, I don't think either of them are close to positively happening.

it just is what it is, Hibbert's never going to be Pat Ewing or something, hell never be close to being a 1st or probably even 2nd offensive option. that's got as much to do with the way pro ball works now than anything really. people love to talk about the downfall of the big man offense while ignoring the way modern rim protecting defensive rules. bigs just don't score now, it's a drive and kick league, for better or worse.

the funny thing is he made all of these type of shots vs the heat in the playoffs:biggums:

Correct me if I'm wrong but when he plays for his national team (Jamaica isn't it?) I seem to recall they use him a bit as a ball handler and he jacks up 3's and mid range shots. Maybe he grew up wanting to be more of a stretch PF but physically he doesn't fit that mould and so never worked on his finishing like he should have.

Remember how awkward he was when he first entered the league, like he was going to trip over his own feet running down the court? Well, he's still naturally awkward. Repetition and practice has made his post sets more fluid, but when you get that dump off pass and your body just has to react and adjust on the fly, he suffers.

It's kinda like the difference between giving a prepared speech and being asked a spontaneous question.

Bcuz he's overrated:lol

[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]a little of both I guess, but more that there's no Pacer that demands a double at all that can force the defense out of position. hopefully Paul George makes the next step towards that, hopefully Granger being back makes defenses have to space farther out. but that's just hoping and wishing stuff, I don't think either of them are close to positively happening.

it just is what it is, Hibbert's never going to be Pat Ewing or something, hell never be close to being a 1st or probably even 2nd offensive option. that's got as much to do with the way pro ball works now than anything really. people love to talk about the downfall of the big man offense while ignoring the way modern rim protecting defensive rules. bigs just don't score now, it's a drive and kick league, for better or worse.[/QUOTE]

Yeah there is something to this as far as the design of the league and all but I still gotta put a lot of it back on Big Hib. He's not got the skillset we wish for on a guy like that, like a Moses Malone or Kareem or yeah exactly, Patrick, guys who can go out to 15 foot and swoosh, or invent and create their own nightmares for their defenders because they have so many weapons in the post. His game is more ugly, power based, like Shaq but without the fantastic footwork.

But yeah like you said he did go into a higher gear after the All-Star break and by playoff time he was rockin the arena.

We'll see it's a long long season and so many thing can happen but Pacers are terrific threat to beat Miami and get into the Finals this year.

Also don't forget that Argentina dude Scola has showed up and he can light it up on anybody on any given night. Sudden impact off the bench can destroy defenses in a hurry & that's going to help Roy out. Scola is enormous offensive improvement over that (to me SERIOUSLY, HUGELY underrated) wildman Psycho T.

On that same subject of prediction ~~ Hansbrough is going to be a one man wrecking crew in Toronto. Like him or not that dude does produce when he plays

because he has zero actual basketball skills besides free throws and sticking his hands in the air

[QUOTE=comerb]Remember how awkward he was when he first entered the league, like he was going to trip over his own feet running down the court? Well, he's still naturally awkward. Repetition and practice has made his post sets more fluid, but when you get that dump off pass and your body just has to react and adjust on the fly, he suffers.[/QUOTE]

thats a good point

iirc he was a really late bloomer, and was really a project when he entered college, i think he even said that he couldnt do a single pushup.

Because he's, wait for it...








































Not very good. One good playoff series against a terrible frontcourt and all the sudden he's the best center in the league.

[QUOTE=HeyIt'sMe]Because he's, wait for it..


Not very good. One good playoff series against a terrible frontcourt and all the sudden he's the best center in the league.[/QUOTE]

Roy played well in that knicks series too.

If anyhing, that playoffs run might gave him motivation on how close he was in tbe finals. Tbat could add more fuel to his fire

like most modern 7 foot centers


bigger than everybody else...game never really develops because there is no necessity


if they had to "try dragging walton and lanier up the court for 45 minutes*"...they would be forced to develop skillsets


*name the film the line comes from

[QUOTE=get these NETS]like most modern 7 foot centers


bigger than everybody else...game never really develops because there is no necessity


if they had to "try dragging walton and lanier up the court for 45 minutes*"...they would be forced to develop skillsets


*name the film the line comes from[/QUOTE]

airplane

i never really got the joke though

[quote=get these NETS]like most modern 7 foot centers


bigger than everybody else...game never really develops because there is no necessity


if they had to "try dragging walton and lanier up the court for 45 minutes*"...they would be forced to develop skillsets


*name the film the line comes from[/quote]if you don't think Hibbert's game has developed you haven't paid a bit of attention.

[QUOTE=chips93]airplane

i never really got the joke though[/QUOTE]

kaj was acting like he was somebody else(just a random pilot)

kid thought he has kaj and then said...well my dad says that kaj is slow and lazy and doesn't get back on defense

kaj blew his cover and said "tell your dad to try covering lanier and walton"

[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]if you don't think Hibbert's game has developed you haven't paid a bit of attention.[/QUOTE]


he must have been a completely raw player before, because he has poor footwork, and undeveloped skills
VISIBLY

especially for a big man who has been in the league as long as him


he won't develop playing against 6'9" "centers" game after game either

[QUOTE=get these NETS]kaj was acting like he was somebody else(just a random pilot)

kid thought he has kaj and then said...well my dad says that kaj is slow and lazy and doesn't get back on defense

kaj blew his cover and said "tell your dad to try covering lanier and walton"[/QUOTE]

yeah, i just didnt understand what he ment by 'dragging' them up and down the court

[QUOTE=get these NETS]he must have been a completely raw player before, because he has poor footwork, and undeveloped skills
VISIBLY

especially for a big man who has been in the league as long as him


he won't develop playing against 6'9" "centers" game after game either[/QUOTE]
He was but now...he can shoot jumpshots, shoot hooks with either hand at a good clip, defend the rim better than anyone in the league and he is a good passer for a center. He's also developed into a leader. He just sucks at finishing. He actually shoots jump hooks at a higher percentage than his inside shots. His footwork is bad but he's a lanky 7'2 center so I don't expect his footwork to be great. He has shown the ability to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket also. Of course he has improved but like he said, people don't watch the Pacers much during the season anyway. Then when they see them in the playoffs, the want to act like experts. Not saying you are, just speaking in general.

[QUOTE=Dro]He was but now...he can shoot jumpshots, shoot hooks with either hand at a good clip, defend the rim better than anyone in the league and he is a good passer for a center. He's also developed into a leader. He just sucks at finishing. He actually shoots jump hooks at a higher percentage than his inside shots. His footwork is bad but he's a lanky 7'2 center so I don't expect his footwork to be great. He has shown the ability to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket also. Of course he has improved but like he said, people don't watch the Pacers much during the season anyway. Then when they see them in the playoffs, the want to act like experts. Not saying you are, just speaking in general.[/QUOTE]

appreciate the response


but in modern nba why is a 7'2" man ever taking jump shots?

Ewing did it..and it helped draw out his (fellow 7 foot )defender...

I hope by jump shot you mean 10 feet and in..and not further out

unless it's meant to give space and room to their other post player,West

I've seen enough of Hibbert to know that he doesn't quite understand how to put pressure on defense and fully use his size advantage...



gonna pencil in a game where he faces the other legit centers in the league and watch him then..

[QUOTE=get these NETS]appreciate the response


but in modern nba why is a 7'2" man ever taking jump shots?

Ewing did it..and it helped draw out his (fellow 7 foot )defender...

I hope by jump shot you mean 10 feet and in..and not further out

unless it's meant to give space and room to their other post player,West

[B]I've seen enough of Hibbert to know that he doesn't quite understand how to put pressure on defense and fully use his size advantage...[/B]



gonna pencil in a game where he faces the other legit centers in the league and watch him then..[/QUOTE]
This is true. He doesn't really know how to use his size but I think the problem is his lower strength just isn't as strong as it looks like it should be. He gets pushed off the block often and thats why he ends up taking a lot of hook shots. He's almost suprised when he catches it so close to the hoop that he rushes his inside shots. He doesn't shoot a ton of jumpers but he makes a good amount of them when he takes them. No further than 15 feet out, around the free throw line, he can make those. He has a good touch and he's a good free throw shooter for an otherwise awkward player. But he only ends up taking them if David West is on the block and he draws a double team and might hit Hibbert at the high post. It helps that he can make it so that people so that his man which is a center can't come over and help on West.

Ironically, he tends to play well against other centers that are his size and other than the Miami series, he doesn't really play that well against undersized centers imo and its because they get up under him and push him off the block because of his lack of lower body strength. He does look much bigger this year so we'll see if that helps.

[QUOTE=Dro]He was but now...he can shoot jumpshots, shoot hooks with either hand at a good clip, defend the rim better than anyone in the league and he is a good passer for a center. He's also developed into a leader. He just sucks at finishing. He actually shoots jump hooks at a higher percentage than his inside shots. His footwork is bad but he's a lanky 7'2 center so I don't expect his footwork to be great. He has shown the ability to put the ball on the floor and take it to the basket also. Of course he has improved but like he said, people don't watch the Pacers much during the season anyway. Then when they see them in the playoffs, the want to act like experts. Not saying you are, just speaking in general.[/QUOTE]

They are a bit boring.

I know the Pacers are going to have more games televised so more teams will be watching and do more to pick apart their weaknesses