As Hospital Prices Soar, a Single Stitch Tops $500

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/health/as-hospital-costs-soar-single-stitch-tops-500.html?_r=0[/url]



Let us take a minute and laugh at the fact that the right wing retards after the last decades of every evidence pointing to the contrary and you know a bit of common sense and intelligence, believe that we all be better served with giving everything to the private and with no regulation, just kill the government, you know the people we elect to serve and protect us and let the guys that would starve us to death in name of profit roam free.


:lol :roll: :lol :oldlol: :roll: :roll: :oldlol: :roll: :lol



God forbid the workers from a corporation that makes 3 billion in profit every moth, asking for a raise! Just pay them stitches bitches!

in b4 obama's fault

its ridiculous how they keep propping privatized healthcare, calling it the greatest healthcare system in the world. i'll never understand how so out of touch so many people and politicians can be. we're screwed tho, since so much of the country is so anti government and anti Obama, all Republicans have to do is keep fear mongering and playing to their mindsets.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]its ridiculous how they keep propping privatized healthcare, calling it the greatest healthcare system in the world. i'll never understand how so out of touch so many people and politicians can be. we're screwed tho, since so much of the country is so anti government and anti Obama, all Republicans have to do is keep fear mongering and playing to their mindsets.[/QUOTE]


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[I]Hey Karl! I just forced Americans to over eat, to abuse prescription drugs, to shoot each other with guns, and to have unsafe sex. It was all me baby. And now healthcare prices are all jacked up. Muahahahah. Hey let's get Dick on the line and do a three way call. This shit's hilarious![/I]

[QUOTE=OldSkoolball#52][IMG]http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/evolutionary-roots-obesity-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://obesitypost.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/obese.jpg[/IMG]

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[IMG]http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/sQ/george-w-bush-0209-lg.jpg[/IMG]

[I]Hey Karl! I just forced Americans to over eat, to abuse prescription drugs, to shoot each other with guns, and to have unsafe sex. It was all me baby. And now healthcare prices are all jacked up. Muahahahah. Hey let's get Dick on the line and do a three way call. This shit's hilarious![/I][/QUOTE]

so what? you think thats going to change in the immediate future? or are you proposing to screw over anyone that might need healthcare because they have bad habits? i bet you drink or smoke too but thats the hypocrsiy of peope these days. you might as well use the same argument for anyone who drinks, smokes, or doesnt run 2 miles every day. in fact we should take that mentality a step further and those who watch tv, go to movies, surfs the internet, and eats out at all should be penalized because they obviously should be exercising. i mean do you really want to take that road of watch-dogging everyones lives? and screwing over the ones that dont meet your standards?

the other thing is that is one small part of the whole. there are many illnesses people come down with that aren't so much due to bad habits but genetics, randomness, and/or old age. there are freak accidents. there are a lot more needs for healthcare than just eating poorly or not being some exercise freak.

its the same thing when people pretend entitlements are so wrong when there are so many people who legit need them but they use examples of abuse to paint the whole picture. that is not to say entitlement programs dont need reform. its just some people wont realize how important they are until they hit 65 and become too old to do much, or lose their jobs with a family to support.

$500 a stitch? i'd be like fu/k it, where's the scotch tape?

[QUOTE=Godzuki] or are you proposing to screw over anyone that might need healthcare because they have bad habits?[/QUOTE]


Dude. They are screwing THEMSELVES over. I don't think you realize that "the government" is not just some alien entity with endless money to hand out. It's just a composition of everyone living here. You simply don't have the GUTS to stand up to little bitty individuals who make bad choices, becuase you're a f@ggot. You don't have the courage to look someone in the eye when they're in need and say "I'm sorry, but you are responsible for your own consequences."

You are a sucker. When people beg you for things, you give to them. Because you're soft. You're easily taken advantage of. You are emotionally fragile and are afraid to be seen turning your nose up at someone or watching someone suffer the results of their choices. It's not about what's right or wrong. There's no moral OBLIGATION to clean up another man's mess. If it's something you personally WANT to do, then donate your own ****ing money to a hospital.

You don't wanna do the dirty work doe. You could go volunteer to mop the damn floors at the hospital in your free time, and let them pass those janitor savings on to the consumer. Every lil bit counts, right? Or why don't you pool your friends together if you're so concerned, and offer to pay the electric bill for your local hospital. You know how much electricity a hospital uses???? YOU pay that bill, if you care so much.




OOOOOOHHHH BUT WAIT. You only "care" insofar as you can make [U]OTHER PEOPLE[/U] do what [B]you[/B] want. Make the guy working 80 hours a week running a business pay all this stuff! That's his responsibility! Not yours! You're just a guy on the internet! You aren't respnosible to practice what you preach! You're not responsible for helping out!

The least you could do is walk into a mcdonalds and call out every fatty in there and tell them to stop being a disgrace to themselves and to our society. But you [I]won't even do that[/I]. Because you're a bitch plain and simple, and that goes for the OP.


You know what the only course of action you're willing to take? The only course of action you're man enough to take? Is crying like a bitch. Crying like a little bitch is your solution to everything, because you damn sure won't get your own hands dirty taking care of any of these problems you supposedly care so much about.



[QUOTE=Godzuki]
i bet you drink or smoke too but thats the hypocrsiy of peope these days. [/QUOTE]


Of course I don't smoke, and I do not recklessly abuse alcohol.

[QUOTE=OldSkoolball#52]Dude. They are screwing THEMSELVES over. I don't think you realize that "the government" is not just some alien entity with endless money to hand out. It's just a composition of everyone living here. You simply don't have the GUTS to stand up to little bitty individuals who make bad choices, becuase you're a f@ggot. You don't have the courage to look someone in the eye when they're in need and say "I'm sorry, but you are responsible for your own consequences."

You are a sucker. When people beg you for things, you give to them. Because you're soft. You're easily taken advantage of. You are emotionally fragile and are afraid to be seen turning your nose up at someone or watching someone suffer the results of their choices. It's not about what's right or wrong. There's no moral OBLIGATION to clean up another man's mess. If it's something you personally WANT to do, then donate your own ****ing money to a hospital.

You don't wanna do the dirty work doe. You could go volunteer to mop the damn floors at the hospital in your free time, and let them pass those janitor savings on to the consumer. Every lil bit counts, right? Or why don't you pool your friends together if you're so concerned, and offer to pay the electric bill for your local hospital. You know how much electricity a hospital uses???? YOU pay that bill, if you care so much.




OOOOOOHHHH BUT WAIT. You only "care" insofar as you can make [U]OTHER PEOPLE[/U] do what [B]you[/B] want. Make the guy working 80 hours a week running a business pay all this stuff! That's his responsibility! Not yours! You're just a guy on the internet! You aren't respnosible to practice what you preach! You're not responsible for helping out!

The least you could do is walk into a mcdonalds and call out every fatty in there and tell them to stop being a disgrace to themselves and to our society. But you [I]won't even do that[/I]. Because you're a bitch plain and simple, and that goes for the OP.


You know what the only course of action you're willing to take? The only course of action you're man enough to take? Is crying like a bitch. Crying like a little bitch is your solution to everything, because you damn sure won't get your own hands dirty taking care of any of these problems you supposedly care so much about.






Of course I don't smoke, and I do not recklessly abuse alcohol.[/QUOTE]


so you do drink :oldlol:

you know drinking is bad for you, right? what happens if you get into a car accident thinking you're sober enough to drive home from a bar? what happens if you have a bad reaction to alcohol? why do you do it if it has no redeeming benefits to your health? how is it so different than someone choosing to eat fast food? both are voluntary negative habits/actions with no positive consequences, the very same idea you're pretending to condemn and regulate others for.

Like i said people like you are generally very hypocritical with these regulate peoples lives of all negative habits views. i'm sure there are more things you do that arent exactly healthy you're not telling that adversely affect your health in some ways like being in front of your computer all day instead of running or lifting weights.

I also think a lot of the blame for obesity in the US is based on capitalism. the competitive nature of restaurants to provide cheaper mass produced process foods for low prices that are easy to eat on the go where the bottom line are profits to out do each other with better specials and gimmicks. the people are more mice in a laboratory taking whats offered and practical to their wallet and what tastes good. the government could and maybe should regulate it more but obviously that flies against the great principles of capitalism.

You have to be the angry douche that keeps sending me negs here judging by your tone :lol either way i'm sure you're a hypocrite in a lot more ways than one. get your blood pressure checked so we dont all have to pay for your heart attack later too bro :cheers:

Holy shit the healthcare system in America is so ass backwards. Why haven't people made this more of an issue?

Uninsured people help drive up the cost of care because hospitals and insurance companies try to cover their losses. But the real culprits are insurance and drug companies themselves. Don't believe me? Look at the profit margins/executive pay for these industries. This is where the Affordable Care Act fails. Obama let the insurance lobby write the law. It's no wonder congress went for it as they all get loads of $ from these lobbies.

You either stay with the current system or you go in the opposite direction with a single payer, government-run program that forces the insurance and drug industries to conform (communist I know, but that is the opposite of what what we have now). The supposed "compromise" that is Obamacare is a bastardized version of the current system that will do very little to reduce the cost of care while continuing to pad the profits of the insurance and drug industry. Thanks Obama.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]so you do drink :oldlol:

you know drinking is bad for you, right? what happens if you get into a car accident thinking you're sober enough to drive home from a bar? what happens if you have a bad reaction to alcohol? why do you do it if it has no redeeming benefits to your health? how is it so different than someone choosing to eat fast food? both are voluntary negative habits/actions with no positive consequences, the very same idea you're pretending to condemn and regulate others for.

Like i said people like you are generally very hypocritical with these regulate peoples lives of all negative habits views. i'm sure there are more things you do that arent exactly healthy you're not telling that adversely affect your health in some ways like being in front of your computer all day instead of running or lifting weights.

I also think a lot of the blame for obesity in the US is based on capitalism. the competitive nature of restaurants to provide cheaper mass produced process foods for low prices that are easy to eat on the go where the bottom line are profits to out do each other with better specials and gimmicks. the people are more mice in a laboratory taking whats offered and practical to their wallet and what tastes good. the government could and maybe should regulate it more but obviously that flies against the great principles of capitalism.

[/QUOTE]
Drinking does have positive consequences in that it makes life less banal and is a good social lubricant. If people couldn't drink the suicide rate would shoot up. Some people have a problem, sure. But stop pretending it is the same for someone to enjoy a drink as to eat yourself to whale-like proportions. If you knew anything about anything then you would know that the first thing that happens with nationalised healthcare is that the whole population start regulating habits, extorting smokers, and penalising drinkers and the obese (so why are you complaining about it when it is what you want?). The first part of your post is simply incoherent and lacking in sense, of any kind.

And you blame obesity on capitalism do you? Your problem is that food is.. too cheap? Sorry, but that is bullshit. We had a lot more 'capitalism' 100 years ago than we have today and there was far less obesity. What you're complaining about effectively is that capitalism has made people wealthier and provided them with more choices of what to spend their money on. Just because people have more money and more choices, doesn't mean they have to stuff themselves 24/7, doesn't mean they have to spend most of their day in front of the tv, and doesn't mean they have to refrain from any kind of exercise. What you have noticed is that people are generally indolent, self-indulgent, and greedy; capitalism simply allows them to be who they are because they don't need to work 16 hours a day, and most goods have been made affordable to them by guess what? capitalism. For some reason you think capitalism forces down prices when it comes to food, but pushes them up when it comes to medical care - would you care to explain why this is so? There is zero logical consistency to what you are saying, and it is irritating to read such uninformed nonsense.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]its ridiculous how they keep propping privatized healthcare, calling it the greatest healthcare system in the world. i'll never understand how so out of touch so many people and politicians can be. we're screwed tho, since [B]so much of the country is so anti government and anti Obama[/B], all Republicans have to do is keep fear mongering and playing to their mindsets.[/QUOTE]
And rightly so. If you don't think the government of this country over the long-term and Obama over the short, have not given people enough reason to distrust the federal state and want to reign in its supreme power, then it is you that is out of touch and completely ignorant of the history of this country.

[QUOTE=Dresta]Drinking does have positive consequences in that it makes life less banal and is a good social lubricant. If people couldn't drink the suicide rate would shoot up. Some people have a problem, sure. But stop pretending it is the same for someone to enjoy a drink as to eat yourself to whale-like proportions. If you knew anything about anything then you would know that the first thing that happens with nationalised healthcare is that the whole population start regulating habits, extorting smokers, and penalising drinkers and the obese (so why are you complaining about it when it is what you want?). The first part of your post is simply incoherent and lacking in sense, of any kind.

And you blame obesity on capitalism do you? Your problem is that food is.. too cheap? Sorry, but that is bullshit. We had a lot more 'capitalism' 100 years ago than we have today and there was far less obesity. What you're complaining about effectively is that capitalism has made people wealthier and provided them with more choices of what to spend their money on. Just because people have more money and more choices, doesn't mean they have to stuff themselves 24/7, doesn't mean they have to spend most of their day in front of the tv, and doesn't mean they have to refrain from any kind of exercise. What you have noticed is that people are generally indolent, self-indulgent, and greedy; capitalism simply allows them to be who they are because they don't need to work 16 hours a day, and most goods have been made affordable to them by guess what? capitalism. For some reason you think capitalism forces down prices when it comes to food, but pushes them up when it comes to medical care - would you care to explain why this is so? There is zero logical consistency to what you are saying, and it is irritating to read such uninformed nonsense.


And rightly so. If you don't think the government of this country over the long-term and Obama over the short, have not given people enough reason to distrust the federal state and want to reign in its supreme power, then it is you that is out of touch and completely ignorant of the history of this country.[/QUOTE]


So without alcohol suicide rates would shoot up? Can you prove this? Do you think people can enjoy themselves out without alcohol? or are you talking about people who have become dependent on it becoming suicidal without it? Of course i odn't expect anyone to ban alcohol but obviously it was an example i used for negative habits paralleling eating fast food.

People eating what tastes good to them which includes fast food can be just as much of a stimulus towards their happiness as drinking alcohol is. Not everyone who eats fast food eats themselves to whale like proportions either. you can't be so one sided not to see the hypcrisy of pretending that while acting like everyone very moderately drinks alcohol with no negative consequences to their health.

So every country that has nationalized healthcare their government regulates everything they do? Can you prove the government will regulate everyones freedom of choice if national healthcare were instituted? that is like fear mongerinig propaganda. If anything the private insurers have done that and are very choosy as to who they offer healthcare to since its based on profits. You should make that argument instead of pretending like our government will become big brother of anything and everything we choose to eat, drink, or smoke. Public food standards might go up but i'm sure it won't be anything close to regulating all bad habits.


Restaurants have evolved in our country to corporations owning and running these mass serving cheap food on the go business's that amass them huge profits. Its really the evolution of food service on a corporate profit based scale. Import the cheapest meats, process them into packages, and send them out to their chains to serve quantity not quality. Its extremely naive to believe the masses will purchase more expensive, worse tasting healthy foods like apples and salads over burgers and fries. Your expectations of human behavior aren't realistic, and yes human behavior can pretty easily be predicted just like in lab mice. Not everyone has money for organic, or the time to cook every meal either. You can't pretend to make policy on whats ideal, and not whats realistic but thats the problem with so many Republicans. Accept the fact that people are imperfect. That they cave to tastes, that they become addicted to bad things, that they don't always take care of their health or all put money into 401k's for retirement, and all don't look out for their best interests where the government generally has to step in and do that for them. Then make that policy on whats realistic not some pipe dream that everyone is as perfect or fortunate as some of you pretend to be who constantly look down on them like you have no faults of your own.

You want to say **** them? Well expect more crime, more civil warfare of rich vs poor, more guilt tripping and news of people dying off because you think thats how things should be. There is a humanistic side to the issues no matter how selfish a lot of you want to pretend everything should be, also consequences when people become desperate with large wealth gap.

when you pretend to use history to parallel to today's world is what i find naive. Today is very different than at any point in our history. the variables are completely different, and the way people constantly pretend to use it like they're such perfect parallels that show all outcomes is what i find extremely ignorant. I find it funny how Republicans constantly cite the Reagan era, or our past back to even times when there were town criers to report news and we were at war with people in other states to justify things as what i find laughable. circumstances have almost zero parallels to today and that is everything if you want to pretend to cite history repeating itself.

[QUOTE=Godzuki][B]So without alcohol suicide rates would shoot up? Can you prove this? Do you think people can enjoy themselves out without alcohol? (1)[/B] or are you talking about people who have become dependent on it becoming suicidal without it? Of course i odn't expect anyone to ban alcohol but obviously it was an example i used for negative habits paralleling eating fast food.

[B]People eating what tastes good to them which includes fast food can be just as much of a stimulus towards their happiness as drinking alcohol is. (2)[/B] Not everyone who eats fast food eats themselves to whale like proportions either. you can't be so one sided not to see the hypcrisy of pretending that while acting like everyone very moderately drinks alcohol with no negative consequences to their health.

[B]So every country that has nationalized healthcare their government regulates everything they do? Can you prove the government will regulate everyones freedom of choice if national healthcare were instituted? that is like fear mongerinig propaganda. (3)[/B] If anything the private insurers have done that and are very choosy as to who they offer healthcare to since its based on profits. You should make that argument instead of pretending like our government will become big brother of anything and everything we choose to eat, drink, or smoke. Public food standards might go up but i'm sure it won't be anything close to regulating all bad habits.


[B]Restaurants have evolved in our country to corporations owning and running these mass serving cheap food on the go business's that amass them huge profits. Its really the evolution of food service on a corporate profit based scale. Import the cheapest meats, process them into packages, and send them out to their chains to serve quantity not quality. (4)[/B] Its extremely naive to believe the [B]masses will purchase more expensive, worse tasting healthy foods like apples and salads over burgers and fries. Your expectations of human behavior aren't realistic, and yes human behavior can pretty easily be predicted just like in lab mice. Not everyone has money for organic, or the time to cook every meal either (5) [/B]. You can't pretend to make policy on whats ideal, and not whats realistic but thats the problem with so many Republicans. Accept the fact that people are imperfect. That they cave to tastes,[B] that they become addicted to bad things, that they don't always take care of their health or all put money into 401k's for retirement, and all don't look out for their best interests where the government generally has to step in and do that for them.(7) [/B] Then make that policy on whats realistic not some pipe dream that everyone is as perfect or fortunate as some of you pretend to be who constantly look down on them like you have no faults of your own.

[B]You want to say **** them? Well expect more crime, more civil warfare of rich vs poor, more guilt tripping and news of people dying off because you think thats how things should be. There is a humanistic side to the issues no matter how selfish a lot of you want to pretend everything should be, also consequences when people become desperate with large wealth gap. (6)[/B]

[B]when you pretend to use history to parallel to today's world is what i find naive. Today is very different than at any point in our history. the variables are completely different, and the way people constantly pretend to use it like they're such (8) [/B]perfect parallels that show all outcomes is what i find extremely ignorant. I find it funny how Republicans constantly cite the Reagan era, or our past back to even times when there were town criers to report news and we were at war with people in other states to justify things as what i find laughable. circumstances have almost zero parallels to today and that is everything if you want to pretend to cite history repeating itself.[/QUOTE]
This is just a mass of incoherent gibber-jabber. I suggest in the future, if you try to write something, that you make it coherent and logically consistent. Because reading that, quite frankly, is a real ****ing pain. But i will answer a few of the points you appear to be making:

1. Of course i cannot prove it: it is a mere psychological observation that many people need this kind of chemical release from the tedium of everyday life, and that if they didn't have this, many people would struggle to cope with life.

2. Sure. Nobody denied this. But i thought the argument was about obese people? Which it was. No one is saying that there is anything wrong with eating fast-food, like there isn't anything wrong with having a drink. You have simply constructed a straw man.

3. The UK has the NHS (National Health Service) and it has resulted in things like this: [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2436944/NHS-bans-GPs-carrying-minor-operations-patients-smoke-unless-promise-quit.html[/url]

$13 packs of cigarettes, ever-growing taxation on alcohol, the clamour for more taxes on foods etc. Nobody is 'fear-mongering' - it is the inevitable result of a fully tax-funded healthcare system that the state takes an active role in prescribing how people live. If you cannot see this connection then you are just blind to the facts.

4. What is your point? Foods both healthy and unhealthy are being mass produced in this way - the result is that all foods are cheaper. ALL PRODUCTION OF FOOD IS BASED ON PROFITS - NOTHING HAS CHANGED, IT IS ALL IN YOUR MIND. The companies that make the biggest profits are the ones that satisfy the consumer the most and have the cheapest prices. It has always been like this, what is so hard for you to understand about that?

5. Normal, healthy food is cheaper than fast food - this is another figment of your imagination. Human behaviour can't be predicted 'just like lab mice'. If you have money for fast food then you have money for a normal meal. Sorry, but who doesn't have half an hour in their day to cook a meal? No one. You are making things up again.

6. This part literally makes no sense AT ALL. It is just vacuous moral posturing with a complete absence of substance. If someone is obese then they are not impoverished, plain and simple.

7. So the government and bureaucrats know what is better for the individual than the individual does himself? How could these people possibly be in a position to correctly judge what is best for each and every individual? How do THEY know what is best - what makes them so special? You seem to be falling for the most basic fallacy that the government is a magical entity that works differently to any other institution of men: you think that politicians work for the common-weal, rather than taking from the common-wealth (as they always do and will continue to do); this is idiotic and naive.

8. Yes, today is so different to the rest of human history, i guess we live in a historical vacuum where everything that has happened in the past becomes completely irrelevant :hammerhead: . So please tell me, if that is the case, and there are all these new 'variables' that we don't know, and that things are so different from what they've ever been before, then how exactly do you expect a bunch of bureaucrats to plan the economy with any effectiveness? Somehow you think we can know how to micromanage an economy while living in a historical vacuum. You have directly contradicted your own argument with this nonsense.

A lot of time and money is wasted into coding and claim filing when reimbursements are denied due to "coding errors" or "mixups" on the insurance companies' end. A universal, uniform coding system for all insurance companies would reduce a large portion of the administrative overhead of medical practices. There are many ways to improve the system, but these solutions can only make headway when pac contributions from insurance lobbies are forbidden.

[QUOTE=Dresta]This is just a mass of incoherent gibber-jabber. I suggest in the future, if you try to write something, that you make it coherent and logically consistent. Because reading that, quite frankly, is a real ****ing pain. But i will answer a few of the points you appear to be making:

1. Of course i cannot prove it: it is a mere psychological observation that many people need this kind of chemical release from the tedium of everyday life, and that if they didn't have this, many people would struggle to cope with life.

2. Sure. Nobody denied this. But i thought the argument was about obese people? Which it was. No one is saying that there is anything wrong with eating fast-food, like there isn't anything wrong with having a drink. You have simply constructed a straw man.

3. The UK has the NHS (National Health Service) and it has resulted in things like this: [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2436944/NHS-bans-GPs-carrying-minor-operations-patients-smoke-unless-promise-quit.html[/url]

$13 packs of cigarettes, ever-growing taxation on alcohol, the clamour for more taxes on foods etc. Nobody is 'fear-mongering' - it is the inevitable result of a fully tax-funded healthcare system that the state takes an active role in prescribing how people live. If you cannot see this connection then you are just blind to the facts.

4. What is your point? Foods both healthy and unhealthy are being mass produced in this way - the result is that all foods are cheaper. ALL PRODUCTION OF FOOD IS BASED ON PROFITS - NOTHING HAS CHANGED, IT IS ALL IN YOUR MIND. The companies that make the biggest profits are the ones that satisfy the consumer the most and have the cheapest prices. It has always been like this, what is so hard for you to understand about that?

5. Normal, healthy food is cheaper than fast food - this is another figment of your imagination. Human behaviour can't be predicted 'just like lab mice'. If you have money for fast food then you have money for a normal meal. Sorry, but who doesn't have half an hour in their day to cook a meal? No one. You are making things up again.

6. This part literally makes no sense AT ALL. It is just vacuous moral posturing with a complete absence of substance. If someone is obese then they are not impoverished, plain and simple.

7. So the government and bureaucrats know what is better for the individual than the individual does himself? How could these people possibly be in a position to correctly judge what is best for each and every individual? How do THEY know what is best - what makes them so special? You seem to be falling for the most basic fallacy that the government is a magical entity that works differently to any other institution of men: you think that politicians work for the common-weal, rather than taking from the common-wealth (as they always do and will continue to do); this is idiotic and naive.

8. Yes, today is so different to the rest of human history, i guess we live in a historical vacuum where everything that has happened in the past becomes completely irrelevant :hammerhead: . So please tell me, if that is the case, and there are all these new 'variables' that we don't know, and that things are so different from what they've ever been before, then how exactly do you expect a bunch of bureaucrats to plan the economy with any effectiveness? Somehow you think we can know how to micromanage an economy while living in a historical vacuum. You have directly contradicted your own argument with this nonsense.[/QUOTE]


Its funny how you keep saying what i'm typing is incoherent when you seem to be able to understand and attempt to argue it. You're an extremely bias person FYI and it appears very set in your ways despite logic, and are from my observation very idealistic and stubborn to a fault.

Anyways i'm not going to keep arguing and wasting my time with someone clearly very set in his/her beliefs. I'll just say you should try to be less ignorantly stubborn in your views and open them up to more practical realities. I think that is the biggest difference between us. I could care less if Capitalism was the end all be all of governance and Socialism was so flawed, i'd be happy to praise it. Problem is Capitalism and greed driven governance has major issues, nor is Socialism anywhere near as evil and awful as many of you Capitalist to a fault Republicans keep preaching.

I hope this was coherent enough for you to understand, then again everything i typed seemed to be coherent enough for you to argue. You're very bitter and passive aggressive in your argumentative style.

[QUOTE=shlver]A lot of time and money is wasted into coding and claim filing when reimbursements are denied due to "coding errors" or "mixups" on the insurance companies' end. A universal, uniform coding system for all insurance companies would reduce a large portion of the administrative overhead of medical practices. There are many ways to improve the system, but these solutions can only make headway when pac contributions from insurance lobbies are forbidden.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Yet even when claims are filed using the correct universal codes a common insurance industry tactic is to send the claim back requesting clarification or further documentation. It's a stall tactic designed to frustrate both the patient and doctor and drive a wedge into that relationship, thus causing the patient to reconsider having more procedures done. And then when the requested information is sent, insurance companies often claim that they never received them. It's criminal.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]Its funny how you keep saying what i'm typing is incoherent when you seem to be able to understand and attempt to argue it. You're an extremely bias person FYI and it appears very set in your ways despite logic, and are from my observation very idealistic and stubborn to a fault.

Anyways i'm not going to keep arguing and wasting my time with someone clearly very set in his/her beliefs. I'll just say you should try to be less ignorantly stubborn in your views and open them up to more practical realities. I think that is the biggest difference between us. I could care less if Capitalism was the end all be all of governance and Socialism was so flawed, i'd be happy to praise it. Problem is Capitalism and greed driven governance has major issues, nor is Socialism anywhere near as evil and awful as many of you Capitalist to a fault Republicans keep preaching.

I hope this was coherent enough for you to understand, then again everything i typed seemed to be coherent enough for you to argue. You're very bitter and passive aggressive in your argumentative style.[/QUOTE]
You have shown yourself to be ignorant of what capitalism or socialism are, and of how they work (or don't work in the case of socialism). Capitalism is not created by governance, it is the natural outcome when a bunch of human beings are shoved together; it is the only way to accumulate capital and thus spur economic growth and improve living standards. I am not set in my 'beliefs' at all, and what we've been discussing is tantamount to fact rather than belief; the difference between us is that you believe what you would like to believe based on your ideological leanings, whereas i draw my conclusions after studying theory and history and discovering some things can be done while others can't. You don't want to do this because 1. It is too much effort 2. You'd much rather accept the palpably untrue if it fits comfortably with how you otherwise view the world.

Socialism with its inability to solve the pricing problem, and therefore devoid of any means of resource distribution outside of a centralised state, will always fail, and can never work.

Your posts are incoherent: it is like you just spewed out every trite platitude you'd ever heard, whether it was related to what was being discussed or not. So stop spewing your deranged nonsense as if it is anything other than a trivial belief system like Mormonism. You are like Michael Moore (one of your heroes, no doubt) constantly arraigning 'capitalism' while praising the tenets of capitalism and thinking they are something different:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXWoU0YqsU0[/url]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You're a joke.

[QUOTE=Dresta]You have shown yourself to be ignorant of what capitalism or socialism are, and of how they work (or don't work in the case of socialism). Capitalism is not created by governance, it is the natural outcome when a bunch of human beings are shoved together; it is the only way to accumulate capital and thus spur economic growth and improve living standards. I am not set in my 'beliefs' at all, and what we've been discussing is tantamount to fact rather than belief; the difference between us is that you believe what you would like to believe based on your ideological leanings, whereas i draw my conclusions after studying theory and history and discovering some things can be done while others can't. You don't want to do this because 1. It is too much effort 2. You'd much rather accept the palpably untrue if it fits comfortably with how you otherwise view the world.

Socialism with its inability to solve the pricing problem, and therefore devoid of any means of resource distribution outside of a centralised state, will always fail, and can never work.

Your posts are incoherent: it is like you just spewed out every trite platitude you'd ever heard, whether it was related to what was being discussed or not. So stop spewing your deranged nonsense as if it is anything other than a trivial belief system like Mormonism. You are like Michael Moore (one of your heroes, no doubt) constantly arraigning 'capitalism' while praising the tenets of capitalism and thinking they are something different:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXWoU0YqsU0[/url]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You're a joke.[/QUOTE]


everything i said was very logical, its just you're so bias and angry you take it all so personally. its so obvious in your tone, its just like when you're posting on your other handle in that angry troll mode. The way you write might change but that bitterness is very evident still.

I'm also assuming you hold every post on the internet you read to these same standards of being coherent? I didn't think so. Ask yourself what causes you to be aggressive in such a pompous, elitist way in this case and not others. You just can't seem to accept any logic that doesn't support your beliefs and just want to attack them in whatever you can. You're a dime a dozen internet know it all but very ignorant and impractical right wing talking head. Its always all or nothing with most of you and you're no different.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]everything i said was very logical, its just you're so bias and angry you take it all so personally. its so obvious in your tone, its just like when you're posting on your other handle in that angry troll mode. The way you write might change but that bitterness is very evident still.

I'm also assuming you hold every post on the internet you read to these same standards of being coherent? I didn't think so. Ask yourself what causes you to be aggressive in such a pompous, elitist way in this case and not others. You just can't seem to accept any logic that doesn't support your beliefs and just want to attack them in whatever you can. You're a dime a dozen internet know it all but very ignorant and impractical right wing talking head. Its always all or nothing with most of you and you're no different.[/QUOTE]
No, you are so biased that you think your illiterate ramblings are logical. (what other handle do i have as well? No one's ever accused me of that before - i post more than enough on this one thanks).

And yes, anyone who puts up a wall of text that they expect me to read and respond to has to meet standards of coherence. It is not elitist to demand that something makes sense. Here are some sentences cut from your earlier post:

[QUOTE=Godzuki] Of course i odn't expect anyone to ban alcohol but obviously it was an example i used for negative habits paralleling eating fast food.


you can't be so one sided not to see the hypcrisy of pretending that while acting like everyone very moderately drinks alcohol with no negative consequences to their health.


Restaurants have evolved in our country to corporations owning and running these mass serving cheap food on the go business's that amass them huge profits.


Then make that policy on whats realistic not some pipe dream that everyone is as perfect or fortunate as some of you pretend to be who constantly look down on them like you have no faults of your own.


There is a humanistic side to the issues no matter how selfish a lot of you want to pretend everything should be, also consequences when people become desperate with large wealth gap.


I find it funny how Republicans constantly cite the Reagan era, or our past back to even times when there were town criers to report news and we were at war with people in other states to justify things as what i find laughable. circumstances have almost zero parallels to today and that is everything if you want to pretend to cite history repeating itself.[/QUOTE]

And those were only a selection of your incoherent babble. Most of the rest of it didn't make much sense either.

Once again: you haven't provided any logic; i showed your post to be logically flawed and to contradict itself, yet you refrained from bothering with a reply which didn't involve slinging some demeaning label onto me because you don't have a response, you don't have a logical argument, and you haven't the first idea of what the **** you are talking about. You get all your opinions second-hand from tv, newspapers and maybe the radio, and yet you come on here arguing like they're the result of some kind of in-depth study, when your illiteracy betrays that you've likely never read a book in your life. And then you have the cheek to call me biased and ignorant and impractical. This coming from the person ignorant of the theoretical failings of socialism. Get real, you are the self-righteous and dogmatic one; you are certain in arguments that you don't even know your own side of - pathetic.

[QUOTE=Dresta]No, you are so biased that you think your illiterate ramblings are logical. (what other handle do i have as well? No one's ever accused me of that before - i post more than enough on this one thanks).

And yes, anyone who puts up a wall of text that they expect me to read and respond to has to meet standards of coherence. It is not elitist to demand that something makes sense. Here are some sentences cut from your earlier post:



And those were only a selection of your incoherent babble. Most of the rest of it didn't make much sense either.

Once again: you haven't provided any logic; i showed your post to be logically flawed and to contradict itself, yet you refrained from bothering with a reply which didn't involve slinging some demeaning label onto me because you don't have a response, you don't have a logical argument, and you haven't the first idea of what the **** you are talking about. You get all your opinions second-hand from tv, newspapers and maybe the radio, and yet you come on here arguing like they're the result of some kind of in-depth study, when your illiteracy betrays that you've likely never read a book in your life. And then you have the cheek to call me biased and ignorant and impractical. This coming from the person ignorant of the theoretical failings of socialism. Get real, you are the self-righteous and dogmatic one; you are certain in arguments that you don't even know your own side of - pathetic.[/QUOTE]


i could easily have argued and contradicted everything you stated in your last wall of txt to me but it would've continued going endlessly with your refusal to be open minded. i'm pretty sure anyone reading these could understand most of the points i made, but like i said you have a major chip on your shoulder where you just want to take shots at people who don't agree with your beliefs.

FYI i never built a straw man when that was the example i initially made to show the similarity between regulating peoples eating habits and the consumption of alcohol. the way that went just reinforced my initial comparison.

furthermore when variables aren't the same you cannot possibly pretend history parallels the same circumstance, let alone the outcomes being the same. If you want to ask me what we should compare it to, how about the current circumstance all of the the current variables?

and like i told you i backed out because you're stubborn to a fault in your beliefs and yes you are like the Rush Limbaugh's and right wing talking heads that are all or nothing capitalism, with zero middle ground between the two. also bitter as hell for whatever reasons. your mindset is everything wrong with this country's voters.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]i could easily have argued and contradicted everything you stated in your last wall of txt to me but it would've continued going endlessly with your refusal to be open minded. i'm pretty sure anyone reading these could understand most of the points i made, but like i said you have a major chip on your shoulder where you just want to take shots at people who don't agree with your beliefs.

FYI i never built a straw man when that was the example i initially made to show the similarity between regulating peoples eating habits and the consumption of alcohol. the way that went just reinforced my initial comparison.

furthermore when variables aren't the same you cannot possibly pretend history parallels the same circumstance, let alone the outcomes being the same. If you want to ask me what we should compare it to, how about the current circumstance all of the the current variables?

and like i told you i backed out because you're stubborn to a fault in your beliefs and yes you are like the Rush Limbaugh's and right wing talking heads that are all or nothing capitalism, with zero middle ground between the two. also bitter as hell for whatever reasons. your mindset is everything wrong with this country's voters.[/QUOTE]
I have not the patience to be patronised by someone who thinks that history is not something from which lessons can be learned, and will not be preached to about capitalism by someone who has demonstrated his clear ignorance of capitalism and what in entails earlier in the thread. You've backed off to once again grouping me with people i have very little in common with (collectivist ad hominem) and abstracts with no theoretical grounding to them (compare to the current circumstances and all the current variables - this doesn't mean anything, what variables are you talking about!?). The most obvious variable is that government is the biggest monopoly around and is controlled by thoroughly unscrupulous individuals, so why an earth you want to grant them more power when they already have far more than is constitutionally acceptable is beyond me.

Keep up the faith: these people have your interests at heart! And i don't vote in the US either, i vote in the UK, so yet another fallacy on your part. Amazing that you can deny things presented right in front of your ignorant and sanctimonious nose.

[QUOTE]OldSkoolball#52[/QUOTE]

:biggums:

can you please explain how a person being fat is justification for a single stitch costing $500?

I'll hang up and listen.

[QUOTE=kentatm]:biggums:

can you please explain how a person being fat is justification for a single stitch costing $500?

I'll hang up and listen.[/QUOTE]

Maybe while he is explaining how fat people are responsible for healthcare costs in the US, he can also explain how other fat countries such as the UK can afford "socialist" universal healthcare while spending less per capita for their entire healthcare system than the US govt spends on just medicare and medicaid.

Had a left inguinal hernia repaired today and my only expense was $19 for 30 oxycodone tablets. Paying for your current and future healthcare through taxes is the way to go, shit is simple and it works. I have a cousin living in alexandria va who makes good coin yet is always complaining about healthcare meanwhile I make 75% of what he's making yet tax has never been an issue. To be fair though the canadian system is all I have ever known. What would a plan with good coverage run you on a yearly basis?