Who would you take?
Printable View
Who would you take?
The one who is not a second option.
who the hell is Current Durant
Durant... better stats while playing better defense.
Durant is the 2nd best player after LeBron.
Dirk was what, top 6-7? Shaq, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan etc etc were always better.
Depends on how the team looks like. They're playing different positions after all, so you can't simply compare them 1 vs 1.
Durant can do more things obviously and produce bigger numbers. On the other hand, Dirk has a kind of impact that's very unique and can't be measured by his shooting numbers alone. A 7 footer with that kind of skillset is just messing up any defensive scheme. The 2006 team had no business coming out of the West that year. And the 2011 Mavs (while getting underrated in terms of depth) were good, but not that great either. I'd argue the success of those teams is very specific to the things Dirk brings to the table and I don't see another big man doing the same with that type of roster. Just like you probably won't win with Dirk on any of the Spurs championship teams instead of Duncan.
So I'd say Durant right now is better than Dirk ever was individually, but it's still not so clear who I'd pick. There are scenarios where Dirk is a better choice imo.
[QUOTE=NLZ]Durant... better stats while playing better defense.
Durant is the 2nd best player after LeBron.
Dirk was what, top 6-7? Shaq, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan etc etc were always better.[/QUOTE]
:oldlol:
Kevin Durant is better but at tha same time I would choose prime dirk simply cuz he never had a westbrook type player:no:
[QUOTE=NLZ]Durant... better stats while playing better defense.
Durant is the 2nd best player after LeBron.
Dirk was what, top 6-7? Shaq, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan etc etc were always better.[/QUOTE]
Right, except for the '06-'07 when Dirk won MVP, oh and '04-'05 and '05-'06 when he came in 3rd in MVP voting. And '09-'12. The Finals MVP in '11 was okay too.
Prime Dirk was a beast, he was always there making his presence known among the elite players. I take Durant because his higher ceiling and diversity of his game.
For sure Dirk. Carrying JJ Barrea, 40 year old J-kidd w/ arthritis, etc, to a ring. Always had a subpar supporting cast but always made them play above their ability.
I also laugh at the fools who think Garnett is a better player than Dirk. Not then and definitely not now.
[QUOTE][B]Always had a subpar supporting cast[/B] but always made them play above their ability.[/QUOTE]
There was maybe an 8 year stretch where not one person on the planet said that and an 11 year stretch nobody should have.
That said....
Probably Dirk. There are teams id take Durant on but generally if I didnt know who I could pair him with id take Dirk in 01-11 form.
how is this even a question :facepalm
32 years old dirk > prime lebron > current durant
therefore
prime dirk >>>>
the only reason why dirk never get into goat discussion is because he's unlucky enough to be at the same era with kobe and duncan
Dirk
Just because he never had a team around him as good as Durante has had since 12
So Durante has to prove he can win/lead in playoffs more
Really close though imo
[QUOTE=VIntageNOvel]how is this even a question :facepalm
32 years old dirk > prime lebron > current durant
therefore
prime dirk >>>>
the only reason why dirk never get into goat discussion is because he's unlucky enough to be at the same era with kobe and duncan[/QUOTE]
....and the fact that while Dirk had many very good teammates it
[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]The one who is not a second option.[/QUOTE]
:lol :applause:
[QUOTE=R.I.P.]....and the fact that while Dirk had many very good teammates it
[QUOTE=Fresh Kid]Kevin Durant is better but at tha same time I would choose prime dirk simply cuz he never had a westbrook type player:no:[/QUOTE]
Steve Nash?
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]While dirk played with talent, it was often the wrong talent or poor coaching or both
People forget about Avery... Does anyone think the Mavis blow the finals or lose to the warriors with pat Riley coaching us?
And the one year the team was stacked... At least offensively... Dirk got hurt in the wcf[/QUOTE]
Scott Brooks is even worse than Avery and Nelson. U cant blame the coach for Dirk underperforming in that Warriors series
[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Steve Nash?
Scott Brooks is even worse than Avery and Nelson. U cant blame the coach for Dirk underperforming in that Warriors series[/QUOTE]
Mavs Nash wasn't as good as wb actually... And he was constantly hurt as well
Totally agree about Brooks being worse than Nellie,but Avery was as bad or worse
I'm not blaming Avery for how dirk played, but I do blame him mostly for the team losing. Nelson and Riley ran circles around him and was the biggest reason we lost those series IMO
My point was that coaching remains vastly under-rated here. And you are spot on with Brooks.
Durant. He is just so easy ot build around even if he isn't necessarily the better player.
It is pretty much a coin toss in terms of statistical output. Dirk has played longer so he obviously has the better resume right now, but Durant is an absolute scoring machine. One of the few guys in the NBA right now who I could legitimately see challenging Kareem or Malone for the top two spots in points (barring any injuries of course).
Both guys are almost impossible to guard one on one, though Dirk has the superior post game (being 7 feet doesn't hurt).
I'd go with Durant... but it's even. Both are great and not great at certain things.
Like Durant's all around game better, abilities to put the ball on the floor, has some good playoff experience at a young age, seems less soft to me despite living at the FT line, easier piece to build around position-wise and doesn't seem to be done growing as a player.
For Dirk, I prefer his three point shooting.. and him working out of the post (midrange) as I think he improved in that area greatly from 2007-now, but I'm not fond of his defensive skills and I felt he shied away from the paint/could be bodied too much in his prime and forced into jumpers.
It's close, but I love the way Dirk strokes that ball.
-Brook
[QUOTE=Chuckbrook]It's close, but I love the way Dirk strokes that ball.
-Brook[/QUOTE]
He strokes it so good.
That said, i'll take Durgawd.
I have Durant as a top tier scorer and has been the premier scorer in the league for three/four years now. Dirk was never either been premier or a top tier scorer. Both can be very clutch. Durant has more range and equal accuracy, better creative ability. Dirk has a better post game, better defensive reads and carried a bigger load. Durant is more versatile and a better defender.
Durant's length is about equal or greater than Dirk's. Durant is very quick.
Dirk's goes to his strength a little better and is more definite in what he wants to do with the ball.
Right now its very, very, very close but I take Durant because he can do more.
I do think its ironic that in a direct comparison of the two, Lebron's play affects the perception of both greatly. Had Lebron did his look-I-can-go-to-Mars-during-the-finals trick, a year later most of you would have Durant as an top 30 player already and this question is out of reach.
[QUOTE=Pointguard] Dirk was never either been premier or a top tier scorer.[/QUOTE]
Literally stopped reading.
ffs prime Dirk lead Dallas to the championship against Lebron, Wade and Bosh.
[QUOTE=Alan Ogg]Right, except for the '06-'07 when Dirk won MVP, oh and '04-'05 and '05-'06 when he came in 3rd in MVP voting. And '09-'12. The Finals MVP in '11 was okay too.[/QUOTE]
Derrick Rose wasn't the best, Allen Iverson wasn't the best, Steve Nash wasn't the best. Durant is the 2nd best in the NBA, even if he were to finish 5th in MVP voting.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]I do think its ironic that in a direct comparison of the two, Lebron's play affects the perception of both greatly. Had Lebron did his look-I-can-go-to-Mars-during-the-finals trick, a year later most of you would have Durant as an top 30 player already and this question is out of reach.[/QUOTE]
It is ironic. Durant dropped 31 ppg/.55 FG% on the Heat yet it wasn't much of a competitive series, while Dirk had a good Finals (26 ppg/.42 FG%) but it wasn't quite the WCF where he tore it up against the reallyyy young Thunder. Heat had gotten better in 2012, added Shane Battier who had his best series in the Finals against the Thunder, and they got even better in 2013. I def think under dog stories and going up against big names does play a big part in perception in weird ways... even if said player didn't personally guard or be guarded by the big names (ie. Dirk didn't have to guard Lebron, Durant, Kobe, etc) it still gives him a boost as if he did, because Dirk vs. Aldridge, Gasol, Bosh just doesn't sound as cool haha
[QUOTE=SCdac]It is ironic. Durant dropped 31 ppg/.55 FG% on the Heat yet it wasn't much of a competitive series, while Dirk had a good Finals (26 ppg/.42 FG%) but it wasn't quite the WCF where he tore it up against the reallyyy young Thunder. Heat had gotten better in 2012, added Shane Battier who had his best series in the Finals against the Thunder, and they got even better in 2013. I def think under dog stories and going up against big names does play a big part in perception in weird ways... even if said player didn't personally guard or be guarded by the big names (ie. Dirk didn't have to guard Lebron, Durant, Kobe, etc) it still gives him a boost as if he did, because Dirk vs. Aldridge, Gasol, Bosh just doesn't sound as cool haha[/QUOTE]
It's wierd.. watching both those series I got the impression Dirk played better despite having far inferior stats. Durant's scoring was too scattered and didnt spark any runs outside of the first game.. and his poor defense cancelled out his offense for the most part. While Dirk's points came in bunches at critical points in games to turn the tides.. and his defense wasnt really exposed because he didnt draw the toughest matchup.
[QUOTE=tpols]It's wierd.. watching both those series I got the impression Dirk played better despite having far inferior stats. Durant's scoring was too scattered and didnt spark any runs outside of the first game.. and his poor defense cancelled out his offense for the most part. While Dirk's points came in bunches at critical points in games to turn the tides.. and his defense wasnt really exposed because [B]he didnt draw the toughest matchup.[/B][/QUOTE]
I agree that Dirk's actual effect surpassed his statistical output, but it also speaks to his teammates and competition, and how they should be or are evaluated. I don't think Dirk drew the toughest match up in any series that year outside of maybe the Blazers w/ Aldridge, and even in that series Blazers were toast with BRoy broken down and playing like a shell of himself (he had 1 good game). Dirk had guys on his team to hound swingmen (Marion and Stevenson punked Lebron) and Chandler was great in the middle of the paint (lead Mavs in boards and blocks)... so it allowed Dirk to do what he does best (offensive stuff)... Credit to Cuban for building a great team relative to other teams that season, the best team to be exact.
[QUOTE=moe94]Literally stopped reading.[/QUOTE]
Well, eventually your tutor will increase your hours and then you will get to four sentence paragraphs! As time progresses, you will start putting together five word sentences, and then ones even bigger than that.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Well, eventually your tutor will increase your hours and then you will get to four sentence paragraphs! As time progresses, you will start putting together five word sentences, and then ones even bigger than that.[/QUOTE]
Can you even begin to defend that ridiculous statement?
[QUOTE=SCdac]I agree that Dirk's actual effect surpassed his statistical output, but it also speaks to his teammates and competition, and how they should be or are evaluated. I don't think Dirk drew the toughest match up in any series that year outside of maybe the Blazers w/ Aldridge, and even in that series Blazers were toast with BRoy broken down and playing like a shell of himself (he had 1 good game). Dirk had guys on his team to hound swingmen (Marion and Stevenson punked Lebron) and Chandler was great in the middle of the paint (lead Mavs in boards and blocks)... so it allowed Dirk to do what he does best (offensive stuff)... Credit to Cuban for building a great team relative to other teams that season, the best team to be exact.[/QUOTE]
This is absurd. The competition level in 11 was better than just about any year of this era.
The competition, for example, last year...was a joke compared to 11. The Spurs did not beat a single truly quality team. Lucked out with the Westbrook injury. Lucked out with the Kobe injury. Played a young and inexperienced Warriors team maybe 75% as good as the 11 Thunder...and then got a weak Grizzlies team in the WCF.
And then lost to an inferior Heat team compared to 11 in the finals.
LOL at a Spurs fan talking about competition strength...The Spurs have lucked out and played absurdly weak competition in 3 of their 4 title runs...especially in 03 and 07. And getting lucky breaks like Dirk going down in 03...
The Mavs competition to win the title was easily harder than any Spurs year outside of maybe 05...and it was still harder, just not at ton harder. Literally every title the Spurs won was a cake walk compared to 11 outside of 05.
And it's not that Dirk went head to head against those guys...it's that he clearly outplayed all of some of the biggest stars in the game except for Wade.
Whether you like it or not. Dirk outplayed LA, Gasol, Kobe, Westbrook, Durant, Lebron, and Bosh. You think that is easy? LOL
[QUOTE=Alan Ogg]Right, except for the '06-'07 when Dirk won MVP, oh and '04-'05 and '05-'06 when he came in 3rd in MVP voting. And '09-'12. The Finals MVP in '11 was okay too.[/QUOTE]
Most VALUABLE Player, not BEST player.
Don't think I'd pick Steve Nash two years in a row over Shaq, buddy.
KD one of my faves but this is Dirk until KD can win a chip
Dirk led scrubs to finals in 06 and almost won if it wasnt for refs and he was tripled like prime Shaq that series and his scrub teamates choked too
In 2011 he took a below avg cast to a title they gave him defense but offense they sucked without him a injured Raptors team blew the Mavs out at home w/o Dirk
Dirk is better shooter, rebounder, ballhandling
KD is better scorer, playmaker, offdribble
Defense is even
[QUOTE=moe94]Can you even begin to defend that ridiculous statement?[/QUOTE]
You are on crack if you ever thought he was the premier scorer in the league. So that argument is out the window.
Now what year are you saying he's top tier? In 05 and 09 are the only two years he's top four in scoring. In 09 Wade and Lebron are in a separate tier. They were terrors and just unlike the rest of the pack. Way more creative, way more deadly than anybody else. RS or Playoffs.
In '05 Dirk has his best case but Iverson was 4 ppg higher than Dirk (with Kobe and Lebron 27ish a little over 27) and the second tier had six guys in that usual 24 -26 ppg range - that second tier. The playoffs Iverson goes up a notch and Dirk down a notch. Hard to make a case to say the same tier when its more than seven ppg.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]You are on crack if you ever thought he was the premier scorer in the league. So that argument is out the window.
Now what year are you saying he's top tier? In 05 and 09 are the only two years he's top four in scoring. In 09 Wade and Lebron are in a separate tier. They were terrors and just unlike the rest of the pack. Way more creative, way more deadly than anybody else. RS or Playoffs.
In '05 Dirk has his best case but Iverson was 4 ppg higher than Dirk (with Kobe and Lebron 27ish a little over 27) and the second tier had six guys in that usual 24 -26 ppg range - that second tier. The playoffs Iverson goes up a notch and Dirk down a notch. Hard to make a case to say the same tier when its more than seven ppg.[/QUOTE]
You do realize Dirk is 8th all time in playoff ppg...right? I think Durant is just as good scoring the ball, if not better, but to act like Dirk isn't an elite scorer...is just non sense. And he's done it on great overall efficiency as well.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This is absurd. The competition level in 11 was better than just about any year of this era.
[/QUOTE]
It was the incredible year of superstar silence.
It had to be the worse year of superstar play in elimination series ever.
The perennials:
Duncan among his worse for sure.
Kobe among his worse for sure.
Lebron his worse
New stars
Durant below his standards
Rose his worse
Bosh his worse at that point
Wade his least effective when healthy but he was the only one that played competitively.
It was like a they all caught the same bug. You rarely ever see bad play catch on like that.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]It was the incredible year of superstar silence.
It had to be the worse year of superstar play in elimination series ever.
The perennials:
Duncan among his worse for sure.
Kobe among his worse for sure.
Lebron his worse
New stars
Durant below his standards
Rose his worse
Bosh his worse at that point
Wade his least effective when healthy but he was the only one that played competitively.
It was like a they all caught the same bug. You rarely ever see bad play catch on like that.[/QUOTE]
That is giving the Mavs 0 credit. Name the tougher year the Spurs faced please.
[QUOTE=DMAVS41]You do realize Dirk is 8th all time in playoff ppg...right? I think Durant is just as good scoring the ball, if not better, but to act like Dirk isn't an elite scorer...is just non sense. And he's done it on great overall efficiency as well.[/QUOTE]
To suggest Dirk as the premier scorer in the league like Durant has been, is pure nonsense and you know it. Dirk has always been an excellent scorer but in no way has he been in a tier above all or equal to the best. Name the year you think he has the case. Its that simple.