I cannot take this current era of players seriously because of no hand checking

Lebron and Kobe will never be greater than michael jordan.

They are playing in an era when a defender is not allowed to touch you when driving to the basketball. Do people just not see how ridiculous this is? Lebron and Kobe can drive to the basketball all day without someone placing a finger on them. It's just too easy. The rules cater to them so they can score easily.

Am I right?

No you're not right

:facepalm

Contact is still allowed just as much (body), you are just not allowed to put your hands on them and imo you can still do that today to some extent (many get away with it).....

I dont know why everybody just think defense immediately they hear about handchecking? Its not like you were not allowed to counter it! While handchecking makes it even tougher for you to drive you as an offensive player were allowed to use your hands aswell (something MJ managed to exploit to hell).... so its a 50-50 here.... today using your hands as an offensive player (to push of, move away opponents hands etc.) is an automatic foul....

Somebody like Lebron on the perimeter in the 90s would abuse the freedom of handchecking offensively & defensively dramatically i think.... he is already so big & strong out there and now you allow him to use his hands offensively? No matter how much the defender handchecks him, HE would win that battle countering it with his physique / own hands.

Lebron i think would actually benefit from handchecking, Durant however might not prevail equally well.

Hand-checking isn't something that makes it impossible to drive. The defender just isn't allowed to keep his hand on the offensive player. We could flip your argument and say Jordan is an overrated defender because he was allowed to hand check whereas the current era isn't.

Have you see the size of Lebron compared to Jordan... and you think a less physical era benefits him more? :facepalm

kobe played in the hand checking era

Zones and more complex defenses easily make up for the lack of or less hand-checking seen today.

[QUOTE=gts]No you're not right[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]:facepalm [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=pauk]Contact is still allowed just as much (body), you are just not allowed to put your hands on them and imo you can still do that today to some extent (many get away with it).....

I dont know why everybody just think defense immediately they hear about handchecking? Its not like you were not allowed to counter it! While handchecking makes it even tougher for you to drive you as an offensive player were allowed to use your hands aswell (something MJ managed to exploit to hell).... so its a 50-50 here.... today using your hands as an offensive player (to push of, move away opponents hands etc.) is an automatic foul....

Somebody like Lebron on the perimeter in the 90s would abuse the freedom of handchecking offensively & defensively dramatically i think.... he is already so big & strong out there and now you allow him to use his hands offensively? No matter how much the defender handchecks him, HE would win that battle countering it with his physique / own hands.

Lebron i think would actually benefit from handchecking, Durant however might not prevail equally well.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=KobesFinger]Hand-checking isn't something that makes it impossible to drive. The defender just isn't allowed to keep his hand on the offensive player. We could flip your argument and say Jordan is an overrated defender because he was allowed to hand check whereas the current era isn't.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Quickening]Have you see the size of Lebron compared to Jordan... and you think a less physical era benefits him more? :facepalm [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=selrahc]kobe played in the hand checking era[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bob Dole]Zones and more complex defenses easily make up for the lack of or less hand-checking seen today.[/QUOTE]

Good call OP :oldlol:

Let's be honest, Kobe and Lebron would be Marshon Brooks and Khris Middleton in MJ's era.

[QUOTE=Milbuck]Let's be honest, Kobe and Lebron would be Marshon Brooks and Khris Middleton in MJ's era.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case, then Giannis would be a used car salesman.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]If that's the case, then Giannis would be a used car salesman.[/QUOTE]
Only if/when he got bored of Bill Russell'ing the competition. And he'd be the GOAT car salesman as well.

[QUOTE=Milbuck]Only if/when he got bored of Bill Russell'ing the competition. And [B]he'd be the GOAT car salesman[/B] as well.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

:cheers:

Dammit, I just can't troll you Milbuck.

[QUOTE=KobesFinger] We could flip your argument and say Jordan is an overrated defender because he was allowed to hand check whereas the current era isn't.[/QUOTE]

This is a point I've made many times. I have often been a defender of older eras, but we can't have our proverbial cake and eat it too. If it were tougher to score in older eras because of hand checking, then that means it was easier to defend also because of hand checking. Going by the logic of the OP and many supporters of that theory, if hand checking is the great game changer some people make it out to be, then good defenders of that era would struggle today without having that "crutch" just as great scorers of this generation would struggle back then with it being present.

[QUOTE=pauk]Contact is still allowed just as much (body), you are just not allowed to put your hands on them and imo you can still do that today to some extent (many get away with it).....

While handchecking makes it even tougher for you to drive YOU as an offensive player were allowed to use your hands aswell to counter it (something MJ managed to exploit to hell).... so its a 50-50 here.... today using your hands as a offensive player (to push of, move away opponents hands etc.) is an automatic foul....[/QUOTE]
Handchecking would affect Durant some, and mostly slim quick players. Handchecking would actually favor a big, strong, fast, player like Lebron. Watch any film of Barkley and Malone and notice how they sometimes wait for the handcheck from younger players. They don't even notice it most of the time. The only way you can phase a big player with a hand check is if you plant your feet and get some weight behind it. But big quick guys spin off the defender, who has planted his feet and have an advantage once they complete the spin.

On Durant's behalf one could site George Gervin. There are small differences that could be big differences. Gervin was much stronger than he looked and scored a lot in the paint. Gervin had that weird delayed dribble and offset timing that Paul Pierce and Dantley had. The Iceman's long first step also kept people off balance. Durant is quicker, taller with better handle and had better range. Durant would have adjusted to handchecking in some way. But it would be a bit harder on him than Mello, Lebron and Kobe. Might make him a bit more tired at the end of the day.

[QUOTE=KobesFinger]Hand-checking isn't something that makes it impossible to drive. The defender just isn't allowed to keep his hand on the offensive player. We could flip your argument and say Jordan is an overrated defender because he was allowed to hand check whereas the current era isn't.[/QUOTE]
Jordan was the strongest SG so he definitely benefited from the rule.

its not just hand checking its the overall softness of the calls that refs make. we need refs who will be consistent and let players play tough, honest defense.

[QUOTE=jlip]This is a point I've made many times. I have often been a defender of older eras, but we can't have our proverbial cake and eat it too. If it were tougher to score in older eras because of hand checking, then that means it was easier to defend also because of hand checking. Going by the logic of the OP and many supporters of that theory, if hand checking is the great game changer some people make it out to be, then good defenders of that era would struggle today without having that "crutch" just as great scorers of this generation would struggle back then with it being present.[/QUOTE]
Blocking shots was easier in the handcheck days because players were fighting to get to the rim and the slowing down meant the center could get to the shot. It's one of the reasons I think KG was one of the best defenders ever. The Celtics kept everybody out of the lane that year and this was without the handcheck rule to slow players to the basket. Had Thibes and KG teamed up in KG's prime '04 it would have been really impressive.

Most fans came away from Bron's 61 point game w/ the thought in mind that he is this amazing player that put on a “clinic” against a top 5 defense.

Lets be real:
- Bobcats' defense was trash
- they looked scared to play real defense on LeBron because they didn’t want to get called for fouls
- they don’t know how to double team / help someone that gets to the basket

I could keep going on. What will ESPN and NBA TV tell folks? LeBron's 61 is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Either way you look at it, these perimeter players today are producing these memories and moments under little if any physical resistance. I get the same feeling and thoughts when I see Kobe, Durant, and even my boy CP3. I have this thought all the time, with everyone. It sucks so bad because I really don’t think we can truly compare today’s perimeter players to past perimeter players unless they blow past perimeter players’ production clean out of the water. Last years ECF, where Paul George looked afraid to put real contact on Lebron was another reminder that there is no real defense being played today.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Most fans came away from Bron's 61 point game w/ the thought in mind that he is this amazing player that put on a

Before the current era, flopping was never used by superstars.. but now it is by guys like Lebron, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, etc.

People don't actually know what a hand check is, huh?

Clyde Drexler (who frequently tears down his OWN peers), talked about how “you had to start the play with your back to the defender because there was so much handchecking going on.” Of course ESPN wouldn’t make their audience (ISH posters) aware of that fact.

Jordan mythologists acting like he didn't benefit from some of the most blatant ref favoritism in the history of the sport :oldlol:

[QUOTE=HoopsFanNumero1]Jordan mythologists acting like he didn't benefit from some of the most blatant ref favoritism in the history of the sport :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Jordan actually only shot 1 free throw in his entire career and it was a technical. They never called fouls, even if he got hit in the face. Jordan had it tough.

Back then, you could smash a guys face in, and it wasn't even a foul. I mean, imagine an era where you could do something as drastic as breaking a guy's nose without a foul being called.

[QUOTE=HoopsFanNumero1]Jordan mythologists acting like he didn't benefit from some of the most blatant ref favoritism in the history of the sport :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Actually, Jordan once got shot by Laimbeer when he tried to drive for a dunk. The refs called an offensive foul on Jordan. It wash that tough to score back then.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]:blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah [/QUOTE]

cool story.

I can not take MJ Era seriously because of lack of zone. Nostalgia on this board is ridiculous. If you hate the current era so much stop watching.

I'm just thankful MJ didn't end his career paralyzed or with Parkinson's like Ali. MJ never got the benefit of the whistle.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Most fans came away from Bron's 61 point game w/ the thought in mind that he is this amazing player that put on a

Yeah it's incredible. Patrick beverley is the only player in the NBA who truly handchecks and he's looked at as a "psycho-thug".

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Jordan actually only shot 1 free throw in his entire career and it was a technical. They never called fouls, even if he got hit in the face. Jordan had it tough.

Back then, you could smash a guys face in, and it wasn't even a foul.[B] I mean, imagine an era where you could do something as drastic as breaking a guy's nose without a foul being called[/B].[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]Yeah it's incredible. Patrick beverley is the only player in the NBA who truly handchecks and he's looked at as a "psycho-thug".[/QUOTE]
thats because he actively tries to injure players every game.
if handchecking was allowed a fraud like harden wouldnt even crack 10ppg so u might just shut up:coleman:

nobody was allowed to touch "His Airness" either my dear fellow...if you don't know that, you probably didn't watch him play live either. I did:cheers:

[QUOTE=madmax]nobody was allowed to touch "His Airness" either my dear fellow...if you don't know that, you probably didn't watch him play live either. I did:cheers:[/QUOTE]

Shhhh, they can't handle the truth.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Mvnp3gf.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Most fans came away from Bron's 61 point game w/ the thought in mind that he is this amazing player that put on a “clinic” against a top 5 defense.

Lets be real:
- Bobcats' defense was trash
- they looked scared to play real defense on LeBron because they didn’t want to get called for fouls
- they don’t know how to double team / help someone that gets to the basket

I could keep going on. What will ESPN and NBA TV tell folks? LeBron's 61 is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Either way you look at it, these perimeter players today are producing these memories and moments under little if any physical resistance. I get the same feeling and thoughts when I see Kobe, Durant, and even my boy CP3. I have this thought all the time, with everyone. It sucks so bad because I really don’t think we can truly compare today’s perimeter players to past perimeter players unless they blow past perimeter players’ production clean out of the water. Last years ECF, where Paul George looked afraid to put real contact on Lebron was another reminder that there is no real defense being played today.[/QUOTE]

This is pretty much the definition of someone whose blinded by nostalgia lol

Like the Pacers Heat series wasnt physical.. a 290lb Hibbert was allowed to bodycheck everyone at the rim w/o getting called for anything. That series was very physical..

And what is Paul George handchecking going to do to Lebron? Hes got like 30+ lbs on him and has four main weapons for scoring, shooting threes, sealing somebody off on the block, fastbreak, or slashing with a running start. Handchecking would do nothing to stop him as you cant hold.. you can only push, and Lebron generates enough force to where he can completely override any small contact.

Joke. MJ got more superstar calls and favorable treatment than Lebron did.. lets be real:oldlol:

Funny thing is the Free throw rate was higher in the 90s than it is now.

MJ had 3 consecutive seasons in the 80s where he had more free throw attempts per game than Durant this year... :lol :roll: