How does playing against college scrubs help you become a better player in the NBA?

Get these guys outta there ASAP. They need to work on their talent and develop it against the best, not against amateurs.

In sports the age between 18-20 is the most important one in shaping their future. Spending that time playing against super mega scrubs in college doesn't benefit you at all.

[QUOTE=Nash]Get these guys outta there ASAP.

[/QUOTE]


If these guys are really as good as theyre all supposedly cracked up to be, hopefully someone can find a way to get them added to the Heat.

[QUOTE=Nash]Get these guys outta there ASAP. They need to work on their talent and develop it against the best, not against amateurs.

In sports the age between 18-20 is the most important one in shaping their future. Spending that time playing against super mega scrubs in college doesn't benefit you at all.[/QUOTE]
would agree but in basketball unlike other sports, its really important to work in the Gym on certain skills and in game practice is not as important as in other sports at a very early age:coleman:

Pretty sure that spending time in college certainly helps you mature before being thrown into the NBA lifestyle.

Some coaches are teachers, familiar with the game at the next level, who spend a lot of time grooming their best players into pros. Weaker competition obviously, but it lets you develop your skillset and playstyle for the NBA. Problem is, if you're only sticking around for one year, it's really tough for your coaches to make an impression.

mark cuban said join the dleague, i disagree watch the documentary on lin, it's about every1 getting their own.
i would say play overseas or something

It doesn't.

Cuban made a great point a few days ago. If you're young and you have NBA on your sights, you'd be better off playing in the D-League than the NCAA.

Someone find that Cuban interview please!

[QUOTE=Doranku]Pretty sure that spending time in college certainly helps you mature before being thrown into the NBA lifestyle.[/QUOTE]

This. Also college coaches don't let you iso for the whole game. It teaches you to actually be a team and how to play offball.

[QUOTE=jzek]It doesn't.

Cuban made a great point a few days ago. If you're young and you have NBA on your sights, you'd be better off playing in the D-League than the NCAA.

Someone find that Cuban interview please![/QUOTE]
d league is probably worse than ncaa for development lol

Cuban interview:

[URL="http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10538276/mark-cuban-says-nba-d-league-better-option-ncaa"]http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10538276/mark-cuban-says-nba-d-league-better-option-ncaa[/URL]

I'm kinda torn between the 2. It really depends on the player and their mental state

It doesn't. What it does though, is if a guy plays in college for 4 years, it's more obvious which guys are good. If guys had 4 years of college play to evaluate, you wouldn't see as many bad draft choices. Teams are currently drafting blindly.

[QUOTE=Marlo_Stanfield]would agree but in basketball unlike other sports, its really important to work in the Gym on certain skills and in game practice is not as important as in other sports at a very early age:coleman:[/QUOTE]
Sure, but that opportunity is available in the NBA as well.

What college can't offer is the pros you get to train with and against every day, the competitors you get to face 82 times a season, the veterans that will teach you everything they've learned.

College can't offer you anything to prepare you for the higher level. Nothing, absolutely nothing.

In soccer for example, players leave their youth teams at 18 and either get to train with the pros every day in the first team or get sent out on loan to another team to gain top level experience.

You learn by doing and experiencing, not being stuck in your own bubble by playing against scrubs your age imagining what the NBA is like.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]It doesn't. What it does though, is if a guy plays in college for 4 years, it's more obvious which guys are good. If guys had 4 years of college play to evaluate, you wouldn't see as many bad draft choices. Teams are currently drafting blindly.[/QUOTE]

True.

Before the era of one and done, staying in college was generally greatly beneficial (especially for guys like Dream, Timmy, Embiid who didn't start balling until their mid-late teens). Coming into the league weak and raw was a recipe for disaster. You can get away with it now though.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]It doesn't. What it does though, is if a guy plays in college for 4 years, it's more obvious which guys are good. If guys had 4 years of college, you wouldn't see any many bad draft choices. Teams are currently drafting blindly.[/QUOTE]
That is such a bad excuse though. There are scouts and GMs that are paid a lot of money to discover talent. Their job is to notice the talent at an early age and groom them within the team.

It would benefit the NCAA and the NBA if guys would stay 4 years in college.

Would benefit the players also cause they would have a degree to fall back on if anything happened that caused their NBA career to end early

[QUOTE=Nash]That is such a bad excuse though. There are scouts and GMs that are paid a lot of money to discover talent. Their job is to notice the talent at an early age and groom them within the team.[/QUOTE]
You can scout as much talent as you want. At the end of the day, you need to see guys play real games. Not summer games and pickup games against random bums.

How else is the NCAA going to make all that money?

I want to see guys stay longer in school because they seem to lack the maturity to handle being young stars in the league. Also being so young and raw is a good way to pick up a lot of losing habits instead of learning how to win on the college level.

[QUOTE=Nash]Get these guys outta there ASAP. They need to work on their talent and develop it against the best, not against amateurs.

In sports the age between 18-20 is the most important one in shaping their future. Spending that time playing against super mega scrubs in college doesn't benefit you at all.[/QUOTE]


explains why jordan was such an underachiever.



stupid fukk

[QUOTE=NumberSix]You can scout as much talent as you want. At the end of the day, you need to see guys play real games. Not summer games and pickup games against random bums.[/QUOTE]
I could argue that most college players are random bums.

[QUOTE=Nash]I could argue that most college players are random bums.[/QUOTE]
Most are, but what's the other option? Fill the NBA with chumps and wait a few years to see which ones are good? Then were just stuck with a new wave of chumps every year.

These kids just need to take all the financial management classes they can in college. Other than that, I see no point for playing a year. Imagine being a #1 recruit then suffering a career ending injury in college. **** that

[QUOTE=3peated]explains why jordan was such an underachiever.



stupid fukk[/QUOTE]
College had nothing to do with Jordan becoming the player he did, Jordan himself did.

It has nothing to do with being ready immediately when arriving to the NBA, it has all to do with how good you could become down the line. Nobody is going to take the NBA by storm their first year.

I could argue that a 22 year old Kyrie Irving with 4 year NBA experience is a better player than a 22 year old Kyrie Irving with 4 year college experience.

[QUOTE=Nash]College had nothing to do with Jordan becoming the player he did, Jordan himself did.

It has nothing to do with being ready immediately when arriving to the NBA, it has all to do with how good you could become down the line. Nobody is going to take the NBA by storm their first year.

I could argue that a 22 year old Kyrie Irving with 4 year NBA experience is a better player than a 22 year old Kyrie Irving with 4 year college experience.[/QUOTE]
Are we sure Jordan would have even been drafted if he didn't play in college?

[QUOTE=inclinerator]mark cuban said join the dleague, i disagree watch the documentary on lin, it's about every1 getting their own.
i would say play overseas or something[/QUOTE]

Cuban said that they should set it up so i'd be better to join the d league, he didn't mean in the state it's in now.

[QUOTE=ihoopallday]These kids just need to take all the financial management classes they can in college. Other than that, I see no point for playing a year. Imagine being a #1 recruit then suffering a career ending injury in college. **** that[/QUOTE]


So dont go to college. Get paid overseas or just work out with a private trainer for a year and take the risk of dropping a bit in the draft. Cant have everything you want.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Are we sure Jordan would have even been drafted if he didn't play in college?[/QUOTE]

No way he gets drafted out of high school. Prime example of a guy who NEEDED at least 3 years in college. If he was drafted at age 17 or 18, he would've ridden a bench for a few years and maybe whatever team drafted him would've cut him if he didn't develop fast enough. And most NBA teams don't have the time or patience (ala a Dean Smith) to teach young guys how to play basketball.

Unless a team is completely committed to building on 'potential', they pretty much expect a guy who they're paying millions of dollars to know how to do their job. As they should.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Are we sure Jordan would have even been drafted if he didn't play in college?[/QUOTE]
Then it is not Jordan's issue, its the GM's and scouts who managed to miss out on him.

Also, Jordan was ACC freshman of the year. He would have no problems being selected in the draft if the draft was not age limited.

There is a reason why the freshmans are the players usually picked in the draft and that you very seldom see a college junior or senior turn things around from his freshman year to become a superstar. The NBA does a great job of picking out the best talents, that is not the issue here. The issue is that I think the NBA has better environment of developing these talents instead of college.

[QUOTE=Nash]College had nothing to do with Jordan becoming the player he did, Jordan himself did.

It has nothing to do with being ready immediately when arriving to the NBA, it has all to do with how good you could become down the line. Nobody is going to take the NBA by storm their first year.

I could argue that a 22 year old Kyrie Irving with 4 year NBA experience is a better player than a 22 year old Kyrie Irving with 4 year college experience.[/QUOTE]


maybe. i think for the average player it's very important to stay in school and learn the true fundamentals of teh game and how to play team ball, and showing up when your number is called. it's a different game completely for a superstar player who is going to be in for 75%+ of the game

[QUOTE=Nash]Then it is not Jordan's issue, its the GM's and scouts who managed to miss out on him.

Also, Jordan was ACC freshman of the year. He would have no problems being selected in the draft if the draft was not age limited.

[B]There is a reason why the freshmans are the players usually picked in the draft and that you very seldom see a college junior or senior turn things around from his freshman year to become a superstar.[/B] The NBA does a great job of picking out the best talents, that is not the issue here. The issue is that I think the NBA has better environment of developing these talents instead of college.[/QUOTE]

The reason being we live in the one and done era.

Since people are arguing Embiid staying in college, let's look at players who were in very similar positions as him. 2 foreigners who picked up the game relatively late in life and went into the NCAA raw as hell like Joel:

Tim Duncan freshman year: 10 PPG/ 10 RPG/ 4 BPG (30 MPG)
Tim Duncan Senior year: 21 PPG/ 15 RPG/ 3 APG/ 3.3 BPG (36 MPG... Naismith/Wooden/Rupp award, #1 pick)

Akeem Olajuwon freshman year: 8.3 PPG/ 6.2 RPG
Hakeem Olajuwon junior year: 17 PPG/ 14 RPG/ 6 BPG (#1 Overall pick)

Joel Embiid freshman year: 11.2 PPG/ 8.2 RPG/ 2.6 BPG
Joel Embiid future: ???

How would Dream and Tim's careers have played out had they left for the league with limited skills, little understanding for the game, and undeveloped bodies? Obviously we'll never know, but we might get an idea if Embiid continues the one and done trend.

I think it can be beneficial to some. For example take Wiggins offense, it needs serious improving, handles, jumpshot and finishing but he might not get enough touches on O next season that he needs to really start improving, even if he does if he cant finish against cokllege defense and struggles with the contact then he will really struggle against NBA defense and physicality.

Anyway I dont think Wiggins could stay, just trying to imagine a situation where staying might be beneficial.

I'm torn on this issue:


1)Ultimately, staying in school all 4 years doesn't guarantee anything. College ball and pro ball are night and day and just because you dominate in college doesn't mean you're going to dominate in the pros. However, being guided for 4 years by a halfway decent coach allows you to mature and grow as a person. That is a much needed quality if you want to succeed in the NBA. Plenty of talented players have lacked maturity and didn't reach their full potential.

2)Skipping college and going to the D-League or Europe allows you to play against better competition right off the bat. However, it doesn't give you the opportunity to mature like college would. Making significant money at 18-19 years old can no doubt cause a kid to go nuts. College at least would provide a little maturing that the D-League or overseas ball wouldn't.


While I wouldn't encourage anyone to skip college, I'm also not sold that going for 4 years is going to allow one to reach their potential. You could stay in college for 10 years. The transition from college ball to pro ball isn't an easy one and many fail.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]The reason being we live in the one and done era.

Since people are arguing Embiid staying in college, let's look at players who were in very similar positions as him. 2 foreigners who picked up the game relatively late in life and went into the NCAA raw as hell like Joel:

Tim Duncan freshman year: 10 PPG/ 10 RPG/ 4 BPG (30 MPG)
Tim Duncan Senior year: 21 PPG/ 15 RPG/ 3 APG/ 3.3 BPG (36 MPG... Naismith/Wooden/Rupp award, #1 pick)

Akeem Olajuwon freshman year: 8.3 PPG/ 6.2 RPG
Hakeem Olajuwon junior year: 17 PPG/ 14 RPG/ 6 BPG (#1 Overall pick)

Joel Embiid freshman year: 11.2 PPG/ 8.2 RPG/ 2.6 BPG
Joel Embiid future: ???

How would Dream and Tim's careers have played out had they left for the league with limited skills, little understanding for the game, and undeveloped bodies? Obviously we'll never know, but we might get an idea if Embiid continues the one and done trend.[/QUOTE]
Duncan and Olajuwon are exceptions to the rule. Those guys are rare examples who didn't pick up the game of basketball until very late. Same thing with Embiid.

Those guys would never declare for the NBA draft after their freshman year anyway. But I am pretty if Duncan somehow got the opportunity to train with NBA players for 4 years a 22 year old Duncan with 4 year NBA experience would have been better than 22 year old Duncan with 4 year college experience. Those guys just needed time to work on their craft. College, NBA, D-League or Europe. They just needed time because of the limited amount of years they've played the game.

But honestly, those guys are rare. The NBA does a great job of finding the most talented players, that is not the issue. Spending your early twenties competing with scrubs who don't even make it as pros is not good.

[QUOTE=BigMacAttack]I think it can be beneficial to some. For example take Wiggins offense, it needs serious improving, handles, jumpshot and finishing but he might not get enough touches on O next season that he needs to really start improving, even if he does if he cant finish against cokllege defense and struggles with the contact then he will really struggle against NBA defense and physicality.

Anyway I dont think Wiggins could stay, [B]just trying to imagine a situation where staying might be beneficial.[/B][/QUOTE]
Don't waste your time. His game is suited for the NBA, not college. He'd have so much more to gain from playing against grown men in a setting that allows him to play his true game, rather than wasting his time in a limiting setting against guys smaller, weaker, slower, and dumber than the guys he'll be playing against for the next 20 years or so.

Don't hate the player hate the game.The draft has a lot of freshman talent taken in the top picks. History has shown that kids projected high who stay one more year have their stocks drop immensely. No doubt in my mind Perry Jones would be a better player right now had he come out his freshman year

Basketball recruits should be forced to do 4 years of college, 2 years of graduate school, then a 3 year "basketball residency" where they learn the ropes of the NBA doing administrative tasks. Then, at age 27, will they then properly be prepared for the NBA.

Just my opinion.....