Why are the old-time stans so delusional?

I understand loving old-school players...but i don't understand why certain posters think they know how these players would do in today's NBA.

I don't care how much footage you watch...it just doesn't translate. NBA scouts watch current prospects from the time they are 14 all through college and still very routinely get it completely wrong.

And these clowns watch youtube highlights of old players and think they can say, with certainty, how good they'd be in today's NBA.

At best, the only thing that may be able to be shown during all that nonsense they watch is how they should rank in THAT era. That's it.

:biggums:

Edit: Like that Dave Cowens nonsense that Laz was talking about. Just delusional.

[QUOTE=played0ut]People don't consider how all the eras have overlapped, and how the best players in each era have EASILY competed with the era after them.

i.e, people who claim Wilt would be a 'poor man's Javale McGee' did not consider how he played a high level against Kareem.


Kareem who played a high level with Magic.

Magic who played at a high level with MJ.

MJ who played at a high level with Kobe/Duncan/Garnett

Kobe/Duncan/Garnett who played/are playing a high level against Melo/Bron/Durant.




If it really was so different and if the previous eras were so exponentially weaker than the modern era, Wilt/KAreem/Magic/Jordan would've been completely decimated by the newer players, [b]but they weren't.[/b]



I understand why people are saying new > old, but it's really just logical.[/QUOTE]

. .

[QUOTE=sundizz]I understand loving old-school players...but i don't understand why certain posters think they know how these players would do in today's NBA.

I don't care how much footage you watch...it just doesn't translate. NBA scouts watch current prospects from the time they are 14 all through college and still very routinely get it completely wrong.

And these clowns watch youtube highlights of old players and think they can say, with certainty, how good they'd be in today's NBA.

At best, the only thing that may be able to be shown during all that nonsense they watch is how they should rank in THAT era. That's it.

:biggums:


Edit: Like that Dave Cowens nonsense that Laz was talking about. Just delusional.[/QUOTE]



So you're accusing old-school fans of using footage and youtube, but not the Justin Bieber generation? Makes sense :oldlol:

How many times a day do variations on this thread need to be posted?

[QUOTE=played0ut]People don't consider how all the eras have overlapped, and how the best players in each era have EASILY competed with the era after them.

i.e, people who claim Wilt would be a 'poor man's Javale McGee' did not consider how he played a high level against Kareem.


Kareem who played a high level with Magic.

Magic who played at a high level with MJ.

MJ who played at a high level with Kobe/Duncan/Garnett

Kobe/Duncan/Garnett who played/are playing a high level against Melo/Bron/Durant.




If it really was so different and if the previous eras were so exponentially weaker than the modern era, Wilt/KAreem/Magic/Jordan would've been completely decimated by the newer players, but they weren't.



I understand why people are saying new > old, but it's really just logical.[/QUOTE]Whole lot of truth in that post...



Always been a keep guys in their era for comparison purposes but that's more to do with the style of the game played... to think a guy like Wilt or Elgin Baylor couldn't be exposed to the same training, coaching and atmosphere as today's players and they'd just be role players is about as comically stupid as you can get

There is no such thing as a time machine, so none of us know how a player would do in a different era. You're delusional if you think you know that a certain player would or would not do well in a different era.

[QUOTE=fpliii]How many times a day do variations on this thread need to be posted?[/QUOTE]

This :facepalm

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]You're talking the obvious Wilt,Kareem, Robertson, West, etc....They'd be great...Stat projecting is ridiculous though....

I'm talking about saying Dave Cowens was better than a guy who arguably outperformed LeBron James for an entire season.[/QUOTE]
I agree stat projecting is generally ridiculous.

However... Dave Cowens was an NBA MVP... an MVP. Let me repeat that, an M-V-P. He can DEFINITELY be argued to have "outperformed Lebron James for an entire season" at least for his own MVP season over any of the times Lebron or Dwight Howard or whoever he's being compared to hasn't earned an MVP themself.. which is the majority (or in Dwight's case, the entirety) of their careers. Cowens in '73 won an MVP in the same league as the "obvious" guys like Chamberlain, Jabbar, West, Robertson, Frazier, Reed, etc with prime John Havlicek as his teammate. He's one of the 50 greatest players in basketball history, and he's in it as a center.

[QUOTE=sundizz]I understand loving old-school players...but i don't understand why certain posters think they know how these players would do in today's NBA.[/QUOTE]


Because only that many of them survived.

There are so many names that are under-appreciated by new comers
that old schoolers don't bring up

because they KNOW they aren't nessecarily better than some of the modern stars.


So there, you have it.

If we are using your logic...

then a peak Shaq, who played over ten years ago...pure trash in today's NBA.

Peak MJ, who played 20 years ago...bench warmer in today's game.

Peak Hakeem, laughable. What the hell is this 6-10 guy going to do in today's NBA against much bigger centers, right?

Peak Kareem, who at age 39 slaughtered a 23 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT games, and averaged 32 ppg on a staggering .621 FG% in the process.

BTW, an old Gilmore averaged 24 ppg on...get this... a .677 FG% against that same Hakeem in ten straight games.

A peak Moses, who was crushing a prime KAJ...well, he was only 6-10, 245, what chance would he have in today's NBA?

A peak Wilt, who as an old man, on a surgically repaired knee, was outplaying a PEAK Kareem. Yep...what would a PEAK Wilt, who was over 7-1 (and would measure 7-3 in today's NBA), was a world-class athlete, and a high jump champion, with a 7-8 wingspan, at 290 lbs, with sprinter's speed (just ask Chief's coach Hank Stram), enormous strength (surely stronger than Shaq) and with FAR more skills than the clumsy Dwight ever had...

yep...couldn't make the NBA today.

I finally see the light.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]If we are using your logic...

then a peak Shaq, who played over ten years ago...pure trash in today's NBA.

Peak MJ, who played 20 years ago...bench warmer in today's game.

Peak Hakeem, laughable. What the hell is this 6-10 guy going to do in today's NBA against much bigger centers, right?

Peak Kareem, who at age 39 slaughtered a 23 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT games, and averaged 32 ppg on a staggering .621 FG% in the process.

BTW, an old Gilmore averaged 24 ppg on...get this... a .677 FG% against that same Hakeem in ten straight games.

A peak Moses, who was crushing a prime KAJ...well, he was only 6-10, 245, what chance would he have in today's NBA?

A peak Wilt, who as an old man, on a surgically repaired knee, was outplaying a PEAK Kareem. Yep...what would a PEAK Wilt, who was over 7-1 (and would measure 7-3 in today's NBA), was a world-class athlete, and a high jump champion, with a 7-8 wingspan, at 290 lbs, with sprinter's speed (just ask Chief's coach Hank Stram), enormous strength (surely stronger than Shaq) and with FAR more skills than the clumsy Dwight ever had...

yep...couldn't make the NBA today.

I finally see the light.[/QUOTE]

:applause: [B]"Barkley Would Be Too Small To Play Today" :rolleyes:[/B]

[QUOTE=Round Mound]:applause: [B]"Barkley Would Be Too Small To Play Today" :rolleyes:[/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah...he was only 6-5 (and yet was outrebounding the likes of Hakeem and at Hakeem's rebounding peak BTW, and then when they were paired up on the same team, he was outrebounding Hakeem by nearly FIVE per game.)

Same with Rodman. What chance would that 6-8 230 lber have against the giants of today's NBA like Kevin Love and Dwight? Sure he was slaughtering Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, and Robinson, but those guys were stiffs that couldn't play in today's WNBA.

Delusional. Typed a Laz length response and deleted it. Comparing Shaq and Dwight makes sense. Comparing Shaq and Wilt doesn't make sense. The game is different. The era is different. Shaq and Dwight both are playing in the same era, and we've had the same access to watch their game live.

Comparing a player no one has seen live, nor full games of, in a similar setting and making bold it's fact claims is just nonsense.

Even if Wilt time transported and played in the NCAA this upcoming year, you still couldn't accurately predict how well he'd do in the NBA. That's what is annoying. You are scouting players from decades ago...with barely any footage...and making claims about how good they would be today.

Just cuz Wilt did good against Kareem and Kareem did good against Hakeem....that doesn't mean anything. You are talking about Wilt. Clearly he'd either be the best, or at worse an all star. However, literally almost everyone else mentioned, Russell included, is a straight up question mark.

Kobe would average 40 ppg in this weak era

[QUOTE=Rocketswin2013]Dave Cowens. Dave Cowens better than prime Dwight Howard. He wasn't on either end. Easily the most delusional stans in the forum.[/QUOTE]
Cowens >>>>>>>>>>>>> Dwight

[QUOTE=ImKobe]Kobe would average 40 ppg in this weak era[/QUOTE]

On a .367 FG%...

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]On a .367 FG%...[/QUOTE]

Wasn't that a league average fg% from the 50s?

[QUOTE=fpliii]How many times a day do variations on this thread need to be posted?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it doesn't lead to anything productive for the majority of the time. Sure, sometimes there can be great post (Kblaze, tharegul8r, etc...), but usually the thread is never formed to get that type of answer to begin with.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Yeah, it doesn't lead to anything productive for the majority of the time. Sure, sometimes there can be great post ([B]Kblaze[/B], tharegul8r, etc...), but usually the thread is never formed to get that type of answer to begin with.[/QUOTE]


Few can post like that guy.

Those posters don't invest a lot of time into places like this. Just too much simple-minded thinking.

I understand that a lot of this discussion is hypothetical, but one side has produced a mountain of factual evidence and actually knows what they're talking about whereas the other is just repeating the same thing over and over. You'd think at some point it would change but no.

As far as I know players today still play the game of basketball and most of them suck at its fundamentals. So how is it delusional to think an all-time player with great athleticism, superior fundamentals and understanding of the game wouldn't be able to dominate?

Tbh Lazeruss...

[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk&feature=kp[/url]

:hammertime: :dancin :party: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :lebronamazed: :banana: [QUOTE=ImKobe]Wasn't that a league average fg% from the 50s?[/QUOTE]

It is pretty ridiculous in the sense of thinking that everyone has a portable game that can be dropped in any time and any place with the exact same results. That's insane actually. I grew up loving the history the game more than the current game, but as you learn more about the game you should improve your understanding of it as well. Offensive and defensive schemes and strategies are different than even 10 yrs ago. The game has constantly evolved over time and sure Wilt would be great in this era, but would he excel at all the changes his game would undergo to be viable in this era? It's impossible to say, there's just as much room for them to be lesser players in a modern era as there is to be even greater than they were......

You stupid 14 years old. Wilt Chamberlain was a dominant force in the 60, and in his twilight holding his own with Jabbar, the same Jabbar that scored 46 on Hakeem on the 80, the same Hakeem that destoyed Shaq in the 95 Finals, the same Shaq Who win 3 straight Fmvp in 2000. ..do you understand? ? Did you See the point?

[QUOTE=Iceman#44]You stupid 14 years old. Wilt Chamberlain was a dominant force in the 60, and in his twilight holding his own with Jabbar, the same Jabbar that scored 46 on Hakeem on the 80, the same Hakeem that destoyed Shaq in the 95 Finals, the same Shaq Who win 3 straight Fmvp in 2000. ..do you understand? ? Did you See the point?[/QUOTE]

[B]Some examples out of countless in that same nature, and more than that... Yet these ignorant-ass kid wanna keep talking and saying the same thing over and over again as if they even knew something :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol: Underrating the shit out of plenty of players (like Dave Cowens for instance).[/B]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Some examples out of countless in that same nature, and more than that... Yet these ignorant-ass kid wanna keep talking and saying the same thing over and over again as if they even knew something :rolleyes: :facepalm :oldlol: [B]Underrating the shit out of plenty of players (like Dave Cowens for instance).[/B][/B][/QUOTE]
you underrate the shit out of current players. You and dondadda should be last posters to cry about anyone underrating players from past eras.
If you want any intelligent discussions then ignore the posters who say that Wilt would average 10 pts a game and at the same time stop using the terms like "ignorant-ass kid" because it shows that you're a kid yourself.

[QUOTE=Rose'sACL]you underrate the shit out of current players. You and dondadda should be last posters to cry about anyone underrating players from past eras.[/QUOTE]

[B]Look at this ignorant fool always on my dick :facepalm :lol Show some examples of that then, show me (my) posts where I underrate the shit out of a current player, must be easy since I'm always doing it, g'ahead :rolleyes:


[/B]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Look at this ignorant fool always on my dick :facepalm :lol Show some examples of that then, show me (my) posts where I underrate the shit out of a current player, must be easy since I'm always doing it, g'ahead :rolleyes:


[/B][/QUOTE]
read your post again and tell me again why anyone should think of you as a mature poster.
You and dondadda insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. i am starting to think that trolls like silk do a great job of replying to your posts. i rarely post in wilt or russell threads now given that no one and that includes you, knows anything about their game other than stats and a few highlight plays and may be a few full games at most. You have to study players for years and see 30-40 full playoff games to make any judgement on them to make a case for top 10 or top 5 of all time.
Even if you were alive to see them, people you debate with weren't alive and it is only logical to not believe what you can't see.
I respect wilt and Russell going by their stats but that is it. May be they were greater than what their stats show or may be they were worse but comparing them to current players is pointless as we don't have enough footage to make any good point in favor of them or against them. Why is that so hard for posters like you to understand?
If you are so mature then ignore the trolls who say that wilt would be like javale mcgee in today's league and be happy.

[QUOTE=Rose'sACL]read your post again and tell me again why anyone should think of you as a mature poster.
You and dondadda insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. i am starting to think that trolls like silk do a great job of replying to your posts. i rarely post in wilt or russell threads now given that no one and that includes you, knows anything about their game other than stats and a few highlight plays and may be a few full games at most. You have to study players for years and see 30-40 full playoff games to make any judgement on them to make a case for top 10 or top 5 of all time.
Even if you were alive to see them, people you debate with weren't alive and it is only logical to not believe what you can't see.
I respect wilt and Russell going by their stats but that is it. May be they were greater than what their stats show or may be they were worse but comparing them to current players is pointless as we don't have enough footage to make any good point in favor of them or against them. Why is that so hard for posters like you to understand?
If you are so mature then ignore the trolls who say that wilt would be like javale mcgee in today's league and be happy.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Show some examples of that then, show me (my) posts where I underrate the shit out of a current player, must be easy since I'm always doing it, g'ahead :rolleyes:


[/B][/QUOTE]


[B]....[/B]

[QUOTE=Iceman#44]You stupid 14 years old. Wilt Chamberlain was a dominant force in the 60, and in his twilight holding his own with Jabbar, the same Jabbar that scored 46 on Hakeem on the 80, the same Hakeem that destoyed Shaq in the 95 Finals, the same Shaq Who win 3 straight Fmvp in 2000. ..do you understand? ? Did you See the point?[/QUOTE]
I don't even know where to start lol. I grew up in the 80s and your post is more telling of your own age than mine......just saying. The he beat this guy so for sure he beats this guy logic is very simple minded, if that's the way you rate players then my post was way over your head. Every sport has evolved over time with each generations players being better than the last, except for those very best elite level guys. Somehow you want me to believe that the nba is the only sport on the face of the earth frozen in time with no improvements or evolution in 50 yrs. You got it smart guy.:kobe:

[QUOTE=Rose'sACL]read your post again and tell me again why anyone should think of you as a mature poster.
You and dondadda insult anyone who doesn't agree with you. i am starting to think that trolls like silk do a great job of replying to your posts. i rarely post in wilt or russell threads now given that no one and that includes you, knows anything about their game other than stats and a few highlight plays and may be a few full games at most. You have to study players for years and see 30-40 full playoff games to make any judgement on them to make a case for top 10 or top 5 of all time.
Even if you were alive to see them, people you debate with weren't alive and it is only logical to not believe what you can't see.
I respect wilt and Russell going by their stats but that is it. May be they were greater than what their stats show or may be they were worse but comparing them to current players is pointless as we don't have enough footage to make any good point in favor of them or against them. Why is that so hard for posters like you to understand?
If you are so mature then ignore the trolls who say that wilt would be like javale mcgee in today's league and be happy.[/QUOTE]
:applause:

[QUOTE=Iceman#44]You stupid 14 years old. Wilt Chamberlain was a dominant force in the 60, and in his twilight holding his own with Jabbar, the same Jabbar that scored 46 on Hakeem on the 80, the same Hakeem that destoyed Shaq in the 95 Finals, the same Shaq Who win 3 straight Fmvp in 2000. ..do you understand? ? Did you See the point?[/QUOTE]
To take it further, the same Shaq who blasted Tim Duncan a few times in the early 2000s, the same Tim Duncan who murked LeBron in 07 and almost did it again last year. If the Spurs win it all this year, we're back to 07? :wtf: :eek:

In this era Al Horford has made 2 All Star games at center and JJ Redick is a starting 2 on a strong team. Anyone who actually watched the NBA in the 90s knows that the stars then would easily be stars today.

I don't see anyone in this era who is comparable to Malone, Barkley, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, Jordan, Magic and so on.

Guys like Lebron and Durant are elite talents but today's bigs are flat out lame.

Lebron couldn't play 1 game without AC. How is he gonna play 82, while also in Converse All Stars?

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Lebron couldn't play 1 game without AC. How is he gonna play 82, while also in Converse All Stars?[/QUOTE]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

BTW, Lebron obviously wouldn't have played in this game, either...

[QUOTE]Boerwinkle was no Jordan. He averaged 7.2 points per game, and he never led his team to the N.B.A. finals

[QUOTE=tontoz]In this era Al Horford has made 2 All Star games at center and JJ Redick is a starting 2 on a strong team. Anyone who actually watched the NBA in the 90s knows that the stars then would easily be stars today.

I don't see anyone in this era who is comparable to Malone, Barkley, Hakeem, Drob, Ewing, Jordan, Magic and so on.

Guys like Lebron and Durant are elite talents but today's bigs are flat out lame.[/QUOTE]


which era? the era of many NBA players haven't entered their prime?

something tells me the mid 90s early 2000 drafts produced players that were comparable to those you have listed during their prime.


Is Barkley threatened at the fact that Pau Gasoft might surpass him on the all time ranking?

[QUOTE=sundizz]I understand loving old-school players...but i don't understand why certain posters think they know how these players would do in today's NBA.

I don't care how much footage you watch...it just doesn't translate. NBA scouts watch current prospects from the time they are 14 all through college and still very routinely get it completely wrong.

And these clowns watch youtube highlights of old players and think they can say, with certainty, how good they'd be in today's NBA.

At best, the only thing that may be able to be shown during all that nonsense they watch is how they should rank in THAT era. That's it.

:biggums:

Edit: Like that Dave Cowens nonsense that Laz was talking about. Just delusional.[/QUOTE]

Truth right here stop bringing this shet up this guy would dominate is this era or that. You dont know....

Guys like SHAQisGOAT never really use facts. They just say things like, "Man, that man Michael Jordan was a REALLLL COLDDDD dude. He'd SKOOL these yung katz if he was in the league". Basically just look for lazy arguments like most of the nostolgists do.