What does LeBron need to do to be accepted as the GOAT?

Hey!
Didn't post here in a while, but last couple of days I've been thinking about something...

Is there any chance that LeBron will be accepted by basketball fans as the GOAT when it all set and done? By accepted I mean basically being what is Jordan right now. ( Considered the GOAT by most of objective bball fans).

For me, I don't really see it happening, but if he would for example, win something like 5 championships with the Cavaliers in a dominant fashion, without 2011 finals like moments, with all the MVPs he is gonna get, I guess he could be considered for a GOAT?

Do you agree? What do you personally think it would take for him to get to that level, and do you find it possible? :)

if he wins a ring with cleveland he is.

[QUOTE=Lebronxrings]if he wins a ring with cleveland he is.[/QUOTE]

I agree

It really should be 7 titles.

Even when MJ had 5, people kept saying he needed to get 6 to definitively put himself above Magic.

But I guess we'll lower the bar for Bran. That's too hard.

Not sure, but I believe reincarnation would be a necessary step in the process.

[QUOTE=Soundwave]It really should be 7 titles.

Even when MJ had 5, people kept saying he needed to get 6 to definitively put himself above Magic.

But I guess we'll lower the bar for Bran. That's too hard.[/QUOTE]

You mean 7 with cleaveland? Or 7 in total?

IMHO, 7-8 in total would actually be enough, even with all his fails, I don't think losing in finals is that much worse than losing before finals.

This is highly unlikely ofc....

[QUOTE=Prometheus]Not sure, but I believe reincarnation would be a necessary step in the process.[/QUOTE]

Yep, he is kinda running out of time...

[QUOTE=Soundwave]It really should be 7 titles.

Even when MJ had 5, people kept saying he needed to get 6 to definitively put himself above Magic.

But I guess we'll lower the bar for Bran. That's too hard.[/QUOTE]
when you look at mjs team its a pretty realistic goal.

Too many things to list. A time machine would be a good start.
[IMG]http://oi62.tinypic.com/9aa0zk.jpg[/IMG]

That opportunity was lost in 2010. Never gonna happen now

[QUOTE=GODbe]Too many things to list. A time machine would be a good start.[/QUOTE]
or shaq.

Winning 1 title with Cleveland puts him into the top 5 by the end of his career. It's epicness.

[QUOTE=Lebronxrings]or shaq.[/QUOTE]

He had shaq and couldn't win.

[QUOTE=Beastmode88]He had shaq and couldn't win.[/QUOTE]
He had a shell of former Shaq.

[QUOTE=Beastmode88]He had shaq and couldn't win.[/QUOTE]
this:lol

win 6 more rings + every ring he has to be finals mvp

Stop choking, dominate critical playoff games, stop getting such blatant ref favoritism...too late for that though.

probably push the reset button on his career and start over. I think there is too much ill will for him at this point to ever put him as GOAT.

That Ship has sailed

That ship has sailed, sank to the bottom of the ocean, and has become coral reef inhabited by crabs.

Too late for him to be GOAT.

It's more of a hypothetical question, obviously it's not realistic for him to win that much rings...

He is never going to be the GOAT unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak, i.e. winning 4 or 5 titles in a row as the main guy. Basketball is far more of an individual sport than the other big 2, football and baseball. It's not a sport that legacy has come with elite individual statistics unless you set major records, i.e. most points scored in a game/career, etc. Basketball has always, and always will be, about winning. Greatness in basketball is almost exclusively associated with winning as the best player on your team.

Basketball is more like golf. Having the best stats, i.e. driving distance, putting, greens, means absolutely nothing. Hell even winning regular tournaments means very little, players are almost never ranked based on sheer tournaments won. It's all about the majors, just like the NBA is all about the Finals.

Hell look at Wilt Chamberlains legacy. He has the greatest statistical numbers in the history of the sport, and practically owns the record books. Yet he is remembered for banging women and being an individual player/not being able to beat Russell. And that's with him winning 2 titles, just like LeBron.

Meanwhile Russell, who was not statistical monster outside of rebounding, is considered the better player by most due to being a winner.

If Chamberlain isn't considered a top 3 GOAT, and by most he's not, with all of his accolades, LeBron James sure as hell isn't becoming the GOAT without winning at least 6 titles.

7-8 FMVP and MVPs is enough for me.

[QUOTE=Prometheus]Not sure, but I believe reincarnation would be a necessary step in the process.[/QUOTE]
/thread

Steal Jordan's identity

[QUOTE=navy]7-8 FMVP and MVPs is enough for me.[/QUOTE]


You have nearly all the posters in the thread say the ship has sailed.

Not this guy :oldlol:

Win.

From here through the rest of his prime, if he wins the Championship every year his team is a legit contender, he'll have a damn good claim. On a physical level, his combined athleticism, versatility, size and skill are the greatest I think we've ever seen.

4 MVP's before 30 is significant, 2 Finals MVP's and a reign as the leagues best player that seems unlikely to be fully overtaken anytime soon. The guy is good, uniquely durable too, which can lead to great even faster.

The knock on LeBron thus far is that he doesn't consistently elevate himself and his teammates in the most crucial moments/games/series.

Being swept in 2007, losing in 2011 and 2014 when they were favored...that's not on the resume of other number 6 and number 23's

But that being said, without him his team isn't in that situation and guys like Wilt (2-4), West (1-7), Kareem (6-5), Magic (5-4), Bird (3-2), Moses (1-2), Oscar (1-1) lost more often, as often or almost as often in the finals as they won. LeBron at 2-3 is a victim of his own success to those who would criticize his mark.

Lebron has to buy a real life Deloreon and kill Jordan as a child. As long as there is the memory of Michael then Lebron will always be second in the minds of the old heads. He could win 7 rings and still have doubters.

[QUOTE=Joyner82reload]He is never going to be the GOAT unless he goes on some ridiculous winning streak, i.e. winning 4 or 5 titles in a row as the main guy. Basketball is far more of an individual sport than the other big 2, football and baseball. It's not a sport that legacy has come with elite individual statistics unless you set major records, i.e. most points scored in a game/career, etc. Basketball has always, and always will be, about winning. Greatness in basketball is almost exclusively associated with winning as the best player on your team.

Basketball is more like golf. Having the best stats, i.e. driving distance, putting, greens, means absolutely nothing. Hell even winning regular tournaments means very little, players are almost never ranked based on sheer tournaments won. It's all about the majors, just like the NBA is all about the Finals.

Hell look at Wilt Chamberlains legacy. He has the greatest statistical numbers in the history of the sport, and practically owns the record books. Yet he is remembered for banging women and being an individual player/not being able to beat Russell. And that's with him winning 2 titles, just like LeBron.

Meanwhile Russell, who was not statistical monster outside of rebounding, is considered the better player by most due to being a winner.

If Chamberlain isn't considered a top 3 GOAT, and by most he's not, with all of his accolades, LeBron James sure as hell isn't becoming the GOAT without winning at least 6 titles.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img.pandawhale.com/post-38597-Austin-Powers-slow-clapping-gi-biry.gif[/IMG]

That ship sailed in 2011.

Win every championship, MVP, FMVP for the rest of his career.

2007, 2011 and 2014 will never be erased from his resume. Even if he wins 4-5 more titles he'll still go down losing 3 finals choking in 2 of them.

[QUOTE=Im so nba'd out][IMG]http://img.pandawhale.com/post-38597-Austin-Powers-slow-clapping-gi-biry.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=Beastmode88]2007, 2011 and 2014 will never be erased from his resume. Even if he wins 4-5 more titles he'll still go down losing 3 finals choking in 2 of them.[/QUOTE]

2011 is the GOAT choke, but he didn't choke in the other two. 2014 his TEAM was utterly destroyed and he played well enough to win. If '07 is a choke than something like Kobe's '04 Finals is a choke as well

Get his name on a Coke bottle to start

[IMG]http://i57.tinypic.com/2aj86x5.jpg[/IMG]

If he gets to 5 rings and 6 MVP's he is right there in the conversation. If he finishes with 3-4 rings and 5 MVP's then he isn't--but he is still clearly top 5 all-time. If he can somehow get to 6-7 rings and 7 MVP's then he isn't just in the conversation but has an extremely strong case.

Most likely LeBron will finish with 5-6 MVP's and 4-5 rings, which would put him up there with KAJ, MJ, Wilt and Russell in the GOAT conversation.

Regarding becoming the public GOAT? If he gets anywhere in the ballpark described above the media will anoint him the GOAT and most of the public will follow.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]If he gets to 5 rings and 6 MVP's he is right there in the conversation. If he finishes with 3-4 rings and 5 MVP's then he isn't--but he is still clearly top 5 all-time. If he can somehow get to 6-7 rings and 7 MVP's then he isn't just in the conversation but has an extremely strong case.

Most likely LeBron will finish with 5-6 MVP's and 4-5 rings, which would put him up there with KAJ, MJ, Wilt and Russell in the GOAT conversation.

Regarding becoming the public GOAT? If he gets anywhere in the ballpark described above the media will anoint him the GOAT and most of the public will follow.[/QUOTE]

Disagree with the last part. Media rankings as follows:

Jordan > God > LeBron

LeBron is hot on God's tail but I don't think he can ever surpass MJ.

Eat fresh grass.

[QUOTE=GrapeApe]Disagree with the last part. Media rankings as follows:

Jordan > God > LeBron

LeBron is hot on God's tail but I don't think he can ever surpass MJ.[/QUOTE]

I think that will change. I could be wrong but here is why: what is a better story?

[I]Can LeBron James become the 2nd greatest player ever?[/I]
[I]Is LeBron James top 3 all-time?[/I]

Or...

[I]Is LeBron James the best ever?[/I]
[I]Has LeBron James surpassed MJ?[/I]

I can't recall any player ever getting hyped as "2nd all-time" or "3rd all-time." The question always is, for those kind of players, whether they are the GOAT. Then there are players like Magic, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe whose ceiling is top 5 and things are limited to that but if a player has a resume good enough to be in the discussion for 2nd or 3rd or even 4th (which would mean he would eclipse one Wilt or Russell) then that player will inevitably wind up in the GOAT conversation, especially with the media. While MJ is hyped as>>>>every other player the difference, when people actually look at the record, between 1st all-time and 4th is minimal. You could have any of those players anywhere from 1-4 legitimately. The media would be hard press to put LeBron in between KAJ, Wilt, and Russell while acting as if MJ still>>>>>LeBron, under the scenarios laid out in this thread about LeBron's resume.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock]If he gets to 5 rings and 6 MVP's he is right there in the conversation. If he finishes with 3-4 rings and 5 MVP's then he isn't--but he is still clearly top 5 all-time. If he can somehow get to 6-7 rings and 7 MVP's then he isn't just in the conversation but has an extremely strong case.

Most likely LeBron will finish with 5-6 MVP's and 4-5 rings, which would put him up there with KAJ, MJ, Wilt and Russell in the GOAT conversation.

Regarding becoming the public GOAT? If he gets anywhere in the ballpark described above the media will anoint him the GOAT and most of the public will follow.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much. 5-6 rings wont put him above MJ to most, but some will say it does. I'd put him around 4-5th. Maybe 2-3 if the Kareem longevity is there.

7-8 rings and 7-8 FMVPs/MVPs though? Pedo will commit suicide trying to jump through hoops trying to explain how even with the failures he still won more. :oldlol: He will be the GOAT if he manages that, although realistically it is impossible.