the GOAT scorer vs. the GOAT defender

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[SIZE="4"][B]Michael Jordan FG's on Dennis Rodman[/B][/SIZE]


[SIZE="3"][url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64][u]Rim Attack[/u][/url]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10451496&postcount=44][u]Pull-Up Jumpshot[/u][/url]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10454211&postcount=51][u]Other Jordan FG's on Rodman[/u][/url][/SIZE]


[SIZE="5"][B]Top Five[/B][/SIZE]


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[B]2)[/B]

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[B]1)[/B]

[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Jordan_Game_Winner_over_Rodman_cdfed0b0df8b81a04f9cc8608a8e31bb.gif[/IMG]...[B] Game-Winner 1989 ECF Game 3[/B]



[SIZE="3"]Jordan's quickness was a big mismatch for forwards, and Rodman was no exception.. And obviously, Rodman is a much better defender than Lebron, so we can only imagine what Jordan would do to the slow-footed Lebron... We already know that Gordon Hayward and many others routinely score 30 on Lebron.

Of course, we all know Lebron's first step is literally [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10770540&postcount=164][u]nothing[/u][/url] compared to Jordan's.

But Jordan's quickness was always a big mismatch for bigger defenders, such as [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692264&postcount=24][u]Penny Hardaway[/u][/url], [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10692400&postcount=30][u]Richard Dumas[/u][/url], [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10667322#post10667322][u]Grant Hill[/u][/url], or [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10667188&postcount=19][u]Reggie Lewis[/u][/url].. Jordan's quickness was always a mismatch for forwards.[/size]

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[IMG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc47232Qmu1qay78vo1_1280.jpg[/IMG]

Ironic...considering Jordan said himself that Rodman's teammate JOE DUMARS was the player who defended him the best throughout his career.

Rodman is not close to the GOAT defender, either.

[QUOTE=Marchesk][IMG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc47232Qmu1qay78vo1_1280.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
22.5pts in the playoffs
GOAT scorer?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
more like GOAT dropoff in scoring from RS to PS:applause:

[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG]22.5pts in the playoffs
GOAT scorer?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
more like GOAT dropoff in scoring from RS to PS:applause:[/QUOTE]

Let's imagine Gary Payton played on the Celtics or Pistons and Jordan had to go through them every year.

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-AMtjN4um0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-AMtjN4um0[/URL]
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy6uigdabDs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy6uigdabDs[/URL]
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-9ezKk1arA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-9ezKk1arA[/URL]

[QUOTE=3ball]easy to do in garbage time.. the series was already over.

Jordan averaged 32ppg on 48% through 3 games to get the Bulls a 3-0 lead, including a massive blowout in game 3.

after game 3, Jordan said to the media "this is the most relaxed i've ever been in a Finals"... Naturally, Jordan had a let-down in games 4 and 5, as did the entire team.

but the next season, Jordan made sure he dropped 45 on Payton... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuryGoKXT-Q[/url][/QUOTE]

"Easy" to shut down the GOAT in the Finals for half the series? News to me

And Jordan, the ultimate alpha & competitor not wanting to sweep the Sonics to finish off their record breaking season with a 15-1 playoff run? Also news to me

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]And Jordan, the ultimate alpha & competitor not wanting to sweep the Sonics to finish off their record breaking season with a 15-1 playoff run? Also news to me[/QUOTE]

Naturally doe.. :lol

[QUOTE=3ball]easy to do in garbage time.. the series was already over.

Jordan averaged 32ppg on 48% through 3 games to get the Bulls a 3-0 lead, including a massive blowout in game 3.

after game 3, Jordan said to the media "this is the most relaxed i've ever been in a Finals"... Naturally, Jordan had a let-down in games 4 and 5, as did the entire team.

but the next season, Jordan made sure he dropped 45 on Payton... [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuryGoKXT-Q[/url][/QUOTE]
Glove locked MJ down and Rodman got robbed of FMVP
his rebounding and defense was more important than MJs scoring

goat scorer is either wilt or kareem

goat defender is bill russell

rodman is however the goat rebounder pound for pound. i'd say hes a top 5 defender ever. but he was more known for being great defending SF/PF and C at times

rarely was he guarding SG's

Dumars at 6'3 had a low center of gravity and great lateral quickness. Plus Joe D was very strong too. However Rodman was still a great defender and one of the most versatile of all time. But when it comes to guarding those 6'6 jets like MJ who ALSO have a great midrange game, that gave him trouble. In my book, Rodman was more effective guarding the bigger 6'8 swingmen or SF's, PF's, and centers. But in the grand scheme, Rodman is one of the few guys that could virtually defend ANY POSITION when called on. And MJ was gonna get his on ANYBODY!

how can MJ play against himself?

[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG]Glove locked MJ down and Rodman got robbed of FMVP
his rebounding and defense was more important than MJs scoring[/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=ImKobe]how can MJ play against himself?[/QUOTE]

Like this:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpfzaqIuR34#t=10s[/url]

[QUOTE=Marchesk][IMG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc47232Qmu1qay78vo1_1280.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:applause: :bowdown:

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[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR][B][SIZE="5"]Top 5[/SIZE][/B]


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[SIZE="3"][B]1)[/B][/SIZE]

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Based on the footage, Jordan was too quick for Rodman, resulting in Rodman not being assigned to Jordan much at all, or, the time Rodman DID guard Jordan, he had to give Jordan a ton of room for open jumpers so he could avoid the blow-by.

So in the end, Jordan's quickness made him a bigger mismatch versus larger defenders such as Rodman, Richard Dumas, or guys like Boris Diaw and Kawhi Leonard, while he still dominated smaller defenders more thoroughly with his skill and ability - so Jordan was a bigger mismatch for ALL defenders.


[B]Other Jordan FG's on Rodman
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[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10706771&postcount=64][u]Rim Attack[/u][/url]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10451496&postcount=44][u]Pull-Up Jumpshot[/u][/url]

[url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10454211&postcount=51][u]Stand-Still Jumpshots[/u][/url]

Lol, and you reposted the OP again why?

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Lol, and you reposted the OP again why?[/QUOTE]
Dude forgot he already spammed the gifs in this thread. :oldlol:

So Jordan vs Jordan?

Jordan's quickness made him a mismatch against a wider range of players than a bigger, slower player would have.

After all, bigger guys can be effectively guarded by someone like Rodman, Richard Dumas, or Boris Diaw, whereas Jordan just blows by these guys with true guard speed (not just being quick for his height).

then against the smaller guys, he just dominated them from the post or with elite skill, or overpowered them.

[QUOTE=Marchesk][IMG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc47232Qmu1qay78vo1_1280.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Unquestionably.

:applause:

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]

(Wilt vs Russell) Unquestionably.

:applause:

[/QUOTE]
true, however, i figured everybody knew wilt vs. russell was the GOAT matchup.

wilt vs russell is the only other matchup being brought up, so i'm definitely fine with Jordan vs Rodman being #2 behind those guys.

Jordan vs. Rodman is goat for the modern era, but 2nd all-time behind Wilt vs Russell.

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[B]what we learned itt:
[/B]
jordan was a bigger mismatch against both bigger AND smaller defenders - his quickness made him a bigger mismatch against larger defenders such as rodman, richard dumas, boris diaw or kahwi leonard, and of course he thoroughly dominated the smaller guys with skill and ability.

[QUOTE=3ball].
[B]what we learned itt:
[/B]
jordan was a bigger mismatch against both bigger AND smaller defenders - his quickness made him a bigger mismatch against larger defenders such as rodman, richard dumas, boris diaw or kahwi leonard, and of course he thoroughly dominated the smaller guys with skill and ability.[/QUOTE]

we? :lol

how you gonna just repeat yourself and then say "so this is what we learned"

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[SIZE="4"][B]Jordan AND1 Dunk on Dominique and Two Blow-By Dunks[/B][/SIZE]


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[QUOTE=3ball]well, i mean, it's so intuitive, i just assumed...[/QUOTE]

if you assumed we already knew it, then we didn't learn it in this thread, now did we?

:oldlol:

anyway, I agree. GOAT scorer (much better than Wilt and Kareem) and the gold standard of offensive basketball weaponry. too quick for yada yada, to skilled for blah blah blah. yes sir, roger that.

it's your spiel I'm laughing at, not your argument.

Jordan vs Dumars and Jordan vs Payton were both better H2H matchups. Just saying.

Hell I would say, Bowen vs Kobe / Tony Allen vs Kobe / LeBron vs JButler are all comparable. I'd argue they're all better/funner matchups than Jordan vs Rodman.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]Jordan vs Dumars and Jordan vs Payton were both better H2H matchups. Just saying.

Hell I would say, Bowen vs Kobe / Tony Allen vs Kobe / LeBron vs JButler are all comparable. I'd argue they're all better/funner matchups than Jordan vs Rodman.[/QUOTE]
not at all - the bigger defenders were more of a challenge for Jordan - i always felt sorry for dumars, payton or any small defender that Jordan could just shoot over, because they had no chance.

the bigger defenders made jordan work a lot harder.

payton did okay on Jordan for a couple games, but he couldn't guard Jordan in games that mattered - those games where payton held jordan to 25ppg were garbage time when the series was already over and the entire bulls team relaxed..

jordan's standard is so high and there is nothing else to knock him for, that people are forced to make a big deal over moral victories in giveaway games after the series had already been won.

the reality is that bigger defenders have always been the tougher cover for MJ, it's just that if you put one of your forwards on jordan, you mess up the rest of your matchups - your TEAM defense is worse when a bigger defender guards MJ... if jordan was a forward, then it wouldn't be as disruptive.

[QUOTE=3ball]not at all - the bigger defenders were more of a challenge for Jordan - i always felt sorry for dumars, payton or any small defender that Jordan could just shoot over, because they had no chance.

the bigger defenders made jordan work a lot harder.

payton did okay on Jordan for a couple games, but he couldn't guard Jordan in games that mattered - those games where payton held jordan to 25ppg [B]were garbage time when the series was already over and the entire bulls team relaxed.. [/B]

jordan's standard is so high and there is nothing else to knock him for, that people are forced to make a big deal over moral victories in giveaway games after the series had already been won.

the reality is that bigger defenders have always been the tougher cover for MJ, it's just that if you put one of your forwards on jordan, you mess up the rest of your matchups - your TEAM defense is worse when a bigger defender guards MJ... if jordan was a forward, then it wouldn't be as disruptive.
.[/QUOTE]

only time jordan loses games is in garbage time :bowdown:

80s celtics/pistons didn't beat jordan, jordan let them win :bowdown:

ultimate competitor :bowdown:





this is too much :roll:

The 2 best matchups played on his team. Harper and Pippen
I always felt like if Jordan would have started his career a little earlier Moncrief and Bobby Jones could have defended him well

The thing about MJ was that he had an EPIC SCORING SKILLSET. He was among the best perimeter players EVER in terms of the midrange, slashing, postups, and craftiness (footwork, pump fakes, etc). Add to it he was a freakish athlete he was an impossible cover. So in terms of Dumars, he could make slashing to the basket a bit more difficult for MJ. When it came to Rodman or forwards defending him, they could make postups a bit harder. MJ was a great slasher AND midrange shooter. So basically u are gonna give up something AT ALL TIMES!!

But YOUR BEST SHOT is to put your best perimeter defender on him PERIOD! It might be a 6'3 or 6'4 guard. It might be a 6'8 SF. If u are like the Pistons and have two great defenders in Dumars and Rodman, that really is your best chance. That's why the Pistons were MJ's toughest threat. They also had a physical frontline that would punish him in the paint. Detroit could at least switch off and give Mike different looks. U aint' gonna stop MJ anyway, it just about making him a bit less efficient.

[B]Imo, the GOAT perimeter defender is Sidney Moncrief, and the player you would want to defend Jordan would either be him or Payton.
Shame that injuries basically killed Sid' career when he was 29 and MJ only 23.

Not to go against Rodman because he was an amazing defensive player, especially in his Pistons days when he was terrific on the perimeter while also doing it in the post (then in his later days he was more of a PF, great at guarding the post against bigs and better at it). He couldn't be as quick as players like Jordan or Dumars though, he had the size and strength combined with great physicality abilities and still pretty fast, but not as them smaller dudes ofc.[/B]


[QUOTE=hateraid]The 2 best matchups played on his team. Harper and Pippen
I always felt like if Jordan would have started his career a little earlier Moncrief and Bobby Jones could have defended him well[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312018[/url]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFV59cFZi-U[/url]

Do you think peak Rodman was a better defender than Robinson or Olajuwon? Or do you mean GOAT perimeter defender?

[QUOTE=Dr Hawk]

Do you think peak Rodman was a better defender than Robinson or Olajuwon? Or do you mean GOAT perimeter defender?

[/QUOTE]
Best [I]all-round[/I] defender - perimeter and interior.

Rodman won back-to-back DPOY at the SF position in 1990 and 1991, but what made him so unique was he had the body to guard both wings and PF's at an elite level, and even centers.

Kobe vs MJ?

Was expecting 3ball to have posted the video of old Jordan vs young Jordan.

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