Kiki Vandeweghe: 27 points, 7 assists vs. Worthy & Michael Cooper in 1985 Playoffs

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[size="3"]here are Vandeweghe's best FG's from this game: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0ZCbZq8wWg[/url][/size]


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Vandeweghe was super-nice - he was right-handed, but used his pivot foot and took off his right leg like a left-hander.... for a defender, this is incredibly rare to have to defend, and it would be quite awkward and difficult to get used to..

as you can see, vandeweghe could create his own shot and used to dunk on guys all the time.

He's one of many examples - if you go up and down the line - players had more scoring skill in previous eras - today, they can only shoot and spread the floor; the 2-5 positions aren't skilled offensive players anymore that can get their own shot and score ON defenders more regularly like in previous eras.

And all this in crowded paints and against [i]real[/i] paint defense.
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:applause:

And against one of the greatest defenders in NBA history, too. I don't think there is any question that he would have been a star in today's game, either.


Two other side-notes:

Why don't teams RUN the ball today, like they did back then? In the last game of that series, the ball hardly touched the floor in a 153-109 LA rout.

And...that '85 Laker team may very well have been better than their '87 team. They played a couple of poor games in that post-season, including that unfathomable "Memorial Day Massacre" 148-114 loss to Boston...but they were BY FAR, the best team in the league. Even with that blowout loss, they outscored their opposition, 126.3 ppg to 116.2 ppg in that post-season, and outshot them by a .543 to .470 margin.

Oh, and they came back with a vengeance against the Celtics after that game one loss. They won four of the next five games, including a solid clinching win in Boston, and a game three 136-111 annihilation of the Celtics.

[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]:applause:

And against one of the greatest defenders in NBA history, too. I don't think there is any question that he would have been a star in today's game, either.


Two other side-notes:

Why don't teams RUN the ball today, like they did back then? In the last game of that series, the ball hardly touched the floor in a 153-109 LA rout.

And...that '85 Laker team may very well have been better than their '87 team. They played a couple of poor games in that post-season, including that unfathomable "Memorial Day Massacre" 148-114 loss to Boston...but they were BY FAR, the best team in the league. Even with that blowout loss, they outscored their opposition, 126.3 ppg to 116.2 ppg in that post-season, and outshot them by a .543 to .470 margin.

Oh, and they came back with a vengeance against the Celtics after that game one loss. They won four of the next five games, including a solid clinching win in Boston, and a game three 136-111 annihilation of the Celtics.[/QUOTE]
teams today must take more time running offense to get good 3-point looks.

the closer you get from the basket, the more contested a shot can be without hurting the eFG%... good mid-range shooters and two-point shot-makers can make shots with guys draped all over (guys like alex english, dantley, king, bird, sikma, basically everyone back then)... so in a game of all two-pointers, you can just run up and down and jack up a two-pointer at the first ray of daylight - you can't do that with 3-pointers, because the eFG% craters with even a slight contest.

today's players aren't nearly as skilled at two-pointers... the stats back it up - guys shoot a worse percentage on two-point shots in today's game, and two-point shots still represent 3/4 of the shots taken.

Ehh Kiki was nice but not thread worthy.

Ricky Davis scored 42 points vs #1 defense Pistons. Jamal Mashburn scored 50 against Pippen. Meh.

[QUOTE=iamgine]Ehh Kiki was nice but not thread worthy.

Ricky Davis scored 42 points vs #1 defense Pistons. Jamal Mashburn scored 50 against Pippen. Meh.[/QUOTE]
vandeweghe is better than any white guy we have in the league today - just the fact that his performance here vs. Worthy and Cooper evokes references to Mash's performance vs. Pippen, says it all.

btw, vandeweghe destroys mash... i won't dignify the ricky davis comparison with a response... :facepalm
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[QUOTE=3ball]vandeweghe is better than any [B]white guy we have in the league today[/B] - just the fact that his performance here vs. Worthy and Cooper evokes references to Mash's performance vs. Pippen, says it all.

btw, vandeweghe destroys mash... i won't dignify the ricky davis comparison with a response... :facepalm
.[/QUOTE]

Do you honestly believe that guys like Vandeweghe, Bird, Barry, Walton, Maravich, and even that non-athletic dud Tom Chambers could play in today's NBA?

C'mon. The reality is, in this era, you would never find something like a 6-2, 37 year old white guy, playing 33 mpg, leading the NBA in apg. Or a 6-11 injury-prone white guy leading the NBA in bpg. Or a 6-8 non-athletic white guy, playing 36 mpg, running away with a rpg title. Or a 6-4 starting PG, playing 34 mpg, shooting .357 from the field.

Nope, that only occurred back in the 50's.

[B]Good stuff :applause:

Kiki could ball, great shooter, knew how to pick the best shots, killed ya with jab-steps and stepbacks, could take it to the rack and finish... just a great scoring weapon, too bad (for him and his team) that he didn't put effort into anything else really, though. But yea, peak Kiki would've been a top4 scoring SF right now, or the best scoring PF if played there.
[/B]

[QUOTE=3ball]vandeweghe is better than any white guy we have in the league today - just the fact that his performance here vs. Worthy and Cooper evokes references to Mash's performance vs. Pippen, says it all.

btw, vandeweghe destroys mash... i won't dignify the ricky davis comparison with a response... :facepalm
.[/QUOTE]
He's a 'meh' player. Talented but we've seen plenty like him before.

[QUOTE=3ball]vandeweghe is better than any white guy we have in the league today
.[/QUOTE]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

He isn't close.

[QUOTE=plowking]:roll: :roll: :roll:

He isn't close.[/QUOTE]


Who's better? Only a prime Dirk would be better than Kiki.

Believe it or not I made a Kiki video years ago that I never posted. And a Kelly Tripuka. I had a point to make at the time but long forgot it.

A White guy with a Black name

[QUOTE=sportjames23]Who's better? Only a prime Dirk would be better than Kiki.[/QUOTE]

[B]Pay him no mind, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Anyways...

Love is a much better rebounder and also better passer, while Kiki got him on the scoring part.
Hayward is a better defender, probably bit above as a rebounder, clearly better playmaker. Can't **** with Kiki as a scorer though.
Dirk's 36 already and not at his best anymore, but he's still balling and he's one of the GOAT's, can't count him out.

So I don't know... Kiki would've had a major case no doubt, though.
Like I've said, peak Kiki would've been the best scoring PF right now, or a top4 scoring SF, depending on position.
He was a terrific scorer but, again, didn't expend much energy at anything else, at all. Even Kiki himself will tell you that.[/B]

The pre draft trade for Vandeweghe who was a proven high scoring forward and the presence of Drexler are partly the reasons the Blazers didn't feel a need to draft MJ.

[QUOTE=JohnMax]A White guy with a Black name[/QUOTE]

On the other hand, Norm Van Lier, Dick Barnett and Guy Rodgers were all black!

[QUOTE=sportjames23]Who's better? Only a prime Dirk would be better than Kiki.[/QUOTE]

Kevin Love, current Dirk, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, etc.

All better players than him, and you know you wouldn't take Kiki over any of them.

Dude was putting up 27ppg on the Blazers, and was considered an afterthought to Clyde. Did he even make a single All NBA team? I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

He is literally cut from the same cloth as Monta Ellis. A player that made a small name for himself putting up some nice 25+ppg seasons on teams no one cared about for the most part, and that played some high tempo ball. I mean Kiki was scoring nearly 20+ppg on a Denver team that had two other 20ppg+ scorers, and ran up a score of 125 points every night. He is a nice player, kinda like Monta, but again, he came and he went.

[QUOTE=plowking]Kevin Love, current Dirk, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, etc.

All better players than him, and you know you wouldn't take Kiki over any of them.

Dude was putting up 27ppg on the Blazers, and was considered an afterthought to Clyde. Did he even make a single All NBA team? I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

He is literally cut from the same cloth as Monta Ellis. A player that made a small name for himself putting up some nice 25+ppg seasons on teams no one cared about for the most part, and that played some high tempo ball. I mean Kiki was scoring nearly 20+ppg on a Denver team that had two other 20ppg+ scorers, and ran up a score of 125 points every night. He is a nice player, kinda like Monta, but again, he came and he went.[/QUOTE]

[B]Only have a handful of players (if we don't "exclude" international players) who could've had a better case... and yet you say 'not even close' :rolleyes:

And I'd probably wouldn't even take him first, no, but (at his peak) he would've been the best scorer out of the bunch.[/B]

[QUOTE=plowking]Kevin Love, current Dirk, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, etc.

All better players than him, and you know you wouldn't take Kiki over any of them.

Dude was putting up 27ppg on the Blazers, and was considered an afterthought to Clyde. Did he even make a single All NBA team? I'm gonna go ahead and say no.

He is literally cut from the same cloth as Monta Ellis. A player that made a small name for himself putting up some nice 25+ppg seasons on teams no one cared about for the most part, and that played some high tempo ball. I mean Kiki was scoring nearly 20+ppg on a Denver team that had two other 20ppg+ scorers, and ran up a score of 125 points every night. He is a nice player, kinda like Monta, but again, he came and he went.[/QUOTE]


I can't even argue against this list, bro. :cheers:

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Only have a handful of players (if we don't "exclude" international players) who could've had a better case... and yet you say 'not even close' :rolleyes:

And I'd probably wouldn't even take him first, no, but (at his peak) he would've been the best scorer out of the bunch.[/B][/QUOTE]

It isn't close though. They are all significantly more prominent and effective players on a basketball court. Sure, there are only a handful, but they are all clearly better.

Keep rolling your eyes though.

[QUOTE=3ball]vandeweghe is better than any white guy we have in the league today - just the fact that his performance here vs. Worthy and Cooper evokes references to Mash's performance vs. Pippen, says it all.

btw, vandeweghe destroys mash... i won't dignify the ricky davis comparison with a response... :facepalm
.[/QUOTE]
......dirk.....dragic.....Love.....Hayward....Parsons gortat and the gasol bros! I'm not worried about the state of white ballers. Even Kyle Korver has an ALL STAR level of impact with the way his shooting/movement/size scrambles the defense.

You bitch about the 3 point shot constantly dude. What is your issue with that? You sound like my grandpa bitching through every warriors game.

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]......dirk.....dragic.....Love.....Hayward....Parsons gortat and the gasol bros! I'm not worried about the state of white ballers. Even Kyle Korver has an ALL STAR level of impact with the way his shooting/movement/size scrambles the defense.

You bitch about the 3 point shot constantly dude. What is your issue with that? You sound like my grandpa bitching through every warriors game.[/QUOTE]
kiki crushes hayward... did you see the OP - that's the eye test... then look at the stats - KIKI BLOWS HAYWARD AWAY.

parsons, korver, gortat??... are you kidding me.... :roll: ... you've de-legitimized yourself.

and the gasol brothers are from spain...

so all we have left is love... love is a worse scorer, but better rebounder... both suck at D or anything else... so i'd take kiki all day because he can create his own shot better and is a better shot-maker overall (can make a much wider range of shots).
.

[QUOTE]and the gasol brothers are from spain... [/QUOTE]

???

thanks OP for demonstrating us how shitty '80s defenses were, allowing this mulltet hobo to be considered an elite scorer in the league

bookmarked