Navigation Efficiency

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[B]Navigation Efficiency[/B] - how did Iverson get from the 3-point line, all the way to the rim in one dribble?

He did it using what I like to call "navigation efficiency", which is taking the maximum number of steps, with the least number of dribbles - this is something players in the 60's were not allowed to do because the ref would call a travel or carry...

In the GIF above of Iverson, he takes 1 dribble and 3 steps - this is standard footwork in the modern eras (post-1980)... but if Iverson had to take an extra dribble here, he would not have generated nearly as much momentum, and the play would not have been as athletic.

In the 60's, to abide by the strict dribbling rules at the time, every player would take an extra dribble in the GIF above (oscar might take several extra dribbles)... This is huge - because when you DON'T take that extra dribble - when you AREN'T slowed down by having to dribble, you are RUNNING, so you can generate better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

But when you have to take an extra dribble, it slows you down and you lose momentum and explosion going up for the shot - this is the case with ALL dribbling moves, not just the one above.

This is THE reason why players in the 60's appear less athletic - they simply weren't allowed to do the same moves today's players are allowed to do - if you aren't allowed to do the same moves, how can you make equally athletic plays?... the less stringent travelling and carrying rules that began in the 80's allowed players to be navigation-efficient and that efficiency allows them to gain better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

here's another one - jordan does the standard 1-dribble-3-step footwork - if jordan had to take an extra dribble here, he would not have generated the tremendous momentum he did to finish the play as explosively as he did... As you can see here, Jordan gets to RUN when he doesn't have to dribble, which generates more momentum and explosiveness than if was slowed down by having to take extra dribble(s).


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[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d2b90fd9ca2b1b969634a8bc4da7ea91.gif[/IMG]


How did Iverson get from the 3-point line, all the way to the rim in one dribble?

He did it using what I like to call "navigation efficiency", which is taking the maximum number of steps, with the least number of dribbles - this is something players in the 60's did not do very well.

In the 60's, almost every player would take an extra dribble in the GIF above (oscar might take several extra dribbles)... This is huge because when you DON'T take that extra dribble - when you aren't slowed down by having to dribble, you are RUNNING, so you can generate better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

But when you have to take an extra dribble, it slows you down and you lose momentum and explosion going up for the shot - this is the case with ALL dribbling moves, not just the one above.

This is THE reason why point guards today are more dunk-capable in more spots - it's not that they are more athletic - it's because they are navigation-efficient and that efficiency allows them to gain better momentum leading up to and on the takeoff.

here's another one - if jordan had to take an extra dribble here, he would not have generated the tremendous momentum he did to finish the play as explosively as he did... As you can see here, Jordan gets to RUN when he doesn't have to dribble, which generates more momentum and explosiveness than if was slowed down by having to take extra dribble(s).


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That Jordan dunk :applause:

Were this type of gather was even allowed in the 60s?

it's also called travelling.

[QUOTE=iznogood]Were this type of gather was even allowed in the 60s?[/QUOTE]


No. Modern players would be called for travel on virtually every play if they played with the rules from the 1960s.

[img]http://www.ultimate-youth-basketball-guide.com/images/traveling.gif[/img]

[B]Navigation Efficiency[/B]

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]No. Modern players would be called for travel on virtually every play if they played with the rules from the 1960s.[/QUOTE]
great point.

the rules back then flat-out disallowed the optimal dribbling that we see today.

being able to gather the ball and take more steps per dribble allows players to be more explosive... as detailed in the OP, each dribble slows you down and hinders the gaining of momentum - the more you dribble, the less you can be in a full-out running mode to gain momentum.

(the Jordan GIF in the OP shows the kind of "running mode" i'm talking about - if he takes an extra dribble in that spot as the rules would have FORCED him to in previous eras, he wouldn't have gained the momentum or explosion that he did).

but the things that allow players to achieve maximum momentum today (gathering the ball, carrying and travelling), weren't allowed in the 60's... if they were, you'd see point guards with the same type of handle and explosiveness we see today.

Both plays are just blatant travelling:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm .

[QUOTE=buddha]it's also called travelling.[/QUOTE]
This.

[QUOTE=navy]This.[/QUOTE]
it's actually not travelling because it's allowed.

[QUOTE=G0ATbe]Both plays are just blatant travelling:facepalm:facepalm:facepalm .[/QUOTE]
completely standard though, so really it isn't travelling, because it's allowed in today's game.

in every single game tonight, the one-dribble-three-steps moves shown in the OP will be done literally dozens of times in every game - it is an extremely standard move, even for junior highers.

and that's the whole point - in the 60's, guys weren't allowed to carry, travel or gather the ball like this (these things are LEGAL today), which hurt their explosiveness, because they had to take more dribbles per step... and each extra dribble significantly hampers momentum generation and explosiveness.
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[quote=3ball]it's actually not travelling because it's allowed.[/quote]

:yaohappy:

Iverson would dribble and take three steps before the ball bounced back up.

He actually took 3 steps...

[QUOTE=3ball]it's actually not travelling because it's allowed.[/QUOTE]
Not called doesnt mean allowed.

carry + traveling = navigation efficiency

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[B]Navigation Efficiency[/B]

Iverson carried in that gif. Jordan got his legitimate two steps after picking up his dribble.

[QUOTE=navy]Not called doesnt mean allowed.[/QUOTE]
you don't even realize that the GIF's in the OP were done tonight over 100 times.

it's never called because both of the footwork in the gifs ARE ALLOWED.

it is standard footwork... completely standard - junior highers do it... don't make me start posting GIF's of junior-highers doing the exact same footwork as the GIFs in the OP..

ah **** it... about to post some GIFs of junior highers DOING THE EXACT SAME FOOTWORK AS THE OP so you can learn about the game of basketball.

again, the footwork in the OP and from the junior highers that i'm about to post, WAS NOT ALLOWED IN THE 60'S, which is why guys weren't as explosive.

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[B][SIZE="3"]A Single Dribble from One Hand to the Other, 3 Steps, and Finish[/SIZE][/B] (off one or two legs)


This is completely legal today, but was a travel and carry in the 60's.

Here's Andrew Wiggins in the 8th grade, doing the move - one dribble, 3 steps, and finish:


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[B]In the 60's, you had to take another dribble here[/B], which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.
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[QUOTE=3ball].
[B][SIZE="3"]A Single Dribble from One Hand to the Other, 3 Steps, and Finish[/SIZE][/B] (off one or two legs)


This is completely legal today, but was a travel and carry in the 60's.

Here's Andrew Wiggins in the 8th grade, doing the move - one dribble, 3 steps, and finish:


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cb0e05c7bfd68699ac6a9d41e4fb41ae.gif[/IMG]


[B]In the 60's, you had to take another dribble here[/B], which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.
.[/QUOTE]

It's difficult to see the 3 steps in real time. Heck we see way more blatant travel cases not being called...Basketball rules haven't changed. If a referee sees the violation he HAS to call it imo.

[QUOTE=fragokota]It's difficult to see the 3 steps in real time. Heck we see way more blatant travel cases not being called...Basketball rules haven't changed. If a referee sees the violation he HAS to call it imo.[/QUOTE]

a single dribble from one hand to the other... 3 steps... finish.... all completely legal and standard in today's game.

here it is in slow-mo for you...


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this is the same footwork as Iverson and MJ in the OP - a single dribble, 3 steps, finish.

In the 60's, you had to take another dribble here, which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.
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[QUOTE=3ball]a single dribble from one hand to the other... 3 steps... finish.... all completely legal and standard in today's game.

here it is in slow-mo for you... get some glasses bro... :facepalm


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this is the same footwork as Iverson and MJ in the OP - a single dribble, 3 steps, finish.

In the 60's, you had to take another dribble here, which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.[/QUOTE]

3 steps in basketball and legal don't match sorry...

[QUOTE=3ball].
[B][SIZE="3"]A Single Dribble from One Hand to the Other, 3 Steps, and Finish[/SIZE][/B] (off one or two legs)


This is completely legal today, but was a travel and carry in the 60's.

Here's Andrew Wiggins in the 8th grade, doing the move - one dribble, 3 steps, and finish:


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cb0e05c7bfd68699ac6a9d41e4fb41ae.gif[/IMG]


[B]In the 60's, you had to take another dribble here[/B], which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.
.[/QUOTE]

that's a travel mate.

[QUOTE=buddha]

that's a travel mate.

[/QUOTE]

not in today's game...

it is completely legal, which is why it is done in every NBA game literally dozens of times and never called.. because it's legal and not a travel in today's game.


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here's more junior highers doing the move - one dribble, 3 steps, finish:


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In the 60's, you had to take another dribble in all these spots, which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.

also, i slowed down the Jordan GIF in the OP, so you can see that he also is doing the move - one dribble, 3 steps, finish.
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what da fukk is a junior higher

Where is the proof that this kind of thing is being called in the 60s?

you're always gonna have people who emphasizes on how the ball moves, and those of how the body/bodies moves.

What the fcuk is wrong with you?:biggums:

Like seriously i dont understand how someone can be so obsessed over different basketball eras

[QUOTE=iamgine]Where is the proof that [B]this kind of thing[/B] is being called in the 60s?[/QUOTE]
it's very much common knowledge...
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[SIZE="3"][B]One Dribble, 3 Steps, Finish[/b] (completely legal in today's game).[/SIZE]


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[B]Junior highers doing the move - one dribble, 3 steps, finish:
[/B]

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[B]In the 60's, you had to take another dribble in all these spots, which slows the player down and robs him of being able to generate as much momentum going to the hoop, while also making the player look less cool.[/B]

[QUOTE=iamgine]Where is the proof that this kind of thing is being called in the 60s?[/QUOTE]
it's always annoying when someone wants you to "prove" something that is common knowledge, just because [I]they[/I] happened to be one of the minority that isn't aware.

it is very common knowledge that in the 60's, you couldn't carry or take extra steps while gathering the ball, and people's concept of what constituted a travel was much more stringent back then.

Many players, coaches, league officials, basically everyone has stated that most of the moves today would be carries or travels in the 60's.

Here's Elgin Baylor talking about this exact topic..
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjNS_oYE92E&feature=youtu.be&t=16m3s[/url]


Here's Walt Frazier talking about it in this article (his quote is excerpted below).. [url]http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/6035/nba-traveling-we-really-don-t-reference-the-rulebook[/url]

"[i]It's very blatant now,[/i]" says Walt "Clyde" Frazier. One of the greatest point guards in NBA history, Frazier is also, as a Knick team broadcaster, a close observer of today's game. "[i]They go twenty feet to the hoop without dribbling one time. This is what they are getting away with nowadays. Some of them are so obvious. You'll hear me on the broadcast saying 'That's a travel! Watch the feet!' Wilt [Chamberlain] would have averaged 100 points a game if they had let him do that."[/I]
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[QUOTE=3ball]completely standard though, so really it isn't travelling, because it's allowed in today's game.

in every single game tonight, the one-dribble-three-steps moves shown in the OP will be done literally dozens of times in every game - it is an extremely standard move, even for junior highers.
[/QUOTE]
Good point. I'd like to add that you would still get called often for this in Europe, especially in the junior games, where the reffing is stricter.

[QUOTE=iznogood]Good point. I'd like to add that you would still get called often for this in Europe, especially in the junior games, where the reffing is stricter.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, always used to get called for palming when i was a kid after I started watching the NBA (in the UK). They had standards of officiating that would make pretty much every NBA possession a turnover.

I feel like you made this just so you have another reason to call Jordan GOAT

[URL="http://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/6/19/4436230/james-hardens-use-of-the-gather-provision"]James Harden uses the gather provision to perfection for the Rockets[/URL]

A little wrinkle in the rulebook allows James Harden to take three steps legally and get into the paint at will. A film study of how Harden does it.

We see it every game. James Harden receives the ball above the three point line, takes a dribble towards the hoop, and suddenly takes off from right inside the arc, attacking, and contorting his way to the rim for a layup attempt. How does he pull this off though? He's so far away from the hoop, there's no way he can get to the rim legally with only two steps. The answer: He takes three. You're probably thinking "isn't that traveling?" Well, yes and no. The NBA only allows 2 steps on drives unless a player uses the "[U][B]gather provision[/B][/U]" as seen below:

[QUOTE]Rule 9, Section XIII, Item (b): A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may take two steps in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing must release the ball to start his dribble before his second step. The first step occurs when a foot, or both feet, touch the floor after gaining control of the ball.[/QUOTE]

As seen in the rule above, a player's 2 steps begin after "gaining control of the ball". To help make that clearer, a player is allowed a step to gather and collect the ball after a dribble and then take off with two more steps after gaining full control of the ball. Nobody in the league is better using this rule to their advantage than James Harden is. His mastery of using this rule is a large part of the reason he is so lethal when he attacks the rim for layups and fouls.

[QUOTE=KobesFinger]

I feel like you made this just so you have another reason to call Jordan GOAT

[/QUOTE]
correct, you know me well sir... glad you see the connection... :cheers:

but the argument in this thread is primarily to back [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10765797&postcount=177][u]this guy[/u][/url] - if he had been allowed to dribble like today's players, he would have been even more explosive....

the clip below shows Elgin doing the exact same move as all the GIFs posted itt, EXCEPT that instead of one dribble and 3 steps, he takes an extra dribble after the crossover, so he takes [i]TWO[/i] dribbles and 3 steps!... this was necessary to avoid getting whistled for travel and carry.

the extra dribble slows him down and robs him of momentum headed to the basket - in today's game, he would take ONE dribble here and 3 steps - without the extra dribble, he would be more in running mode like the previous GIFs itt, and accordingly, he'd generate much more momentum and have a chance to dunk on wilt chamberlain at the rim... :confusedshrug:


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Actually a smart thread.. Too bad OP is biased :ohwell:

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Actually a smart thread.. Too bad OP is biased :ohwell:[/QUOTE]
i'm actually not.

if someone came along that was better than MJ, i would be thrilled... that would be amazing... i'd be the first guy in line to see him with my tongue wagging.

like, pleeeease show me the guy that is better than MJ... I WANT to see that guy - that would be [I]utterly amazing[/I].. i love basketball.

[QUOTE=3ball]i'm actually not.

if someone came along that was better than MJ, i would be thrilled... that would be amazing... i'd be the first guy in line to see him with my tongue wagging.

like, pleeeease show me the guy that is better than MJ... I WANT to see that guy - that would be [I]utterly amazing[/I].. i love basketball.[/QUOTE]

There is no one... Although Kareem is right there.

You obviously have an anti-LeBron agenda, though.. Which is too bad because you could be alot better.