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I'm extremely inconsistent with my shot, and it really affects my game. I've been told I have a very weird shot, and think it may have something to do with my shitty shot. Help guys.
[url]http://youtu.be/cKxdx22AlPw[/url]
[url]http://youtu.be/B3rUtzzpnks[/url]
from a quick look, the left hand doesn't seem to guide the ball. it just floats off to the left. have that left hand in a straight motion. i'll look into it more later but that's the first thing i noticed
I'll film a video of me shooting my midrange jumpers. Check Jordan's fundamental videos on youtube.
[QUOTE=L3B120N J4M35]from a quick look, the left hand doesn't seem to guide the ball. it just floats off to the left. have that left hand in a straight motion. i'll look into it more later but that's the first thing i noticed[/QUOTE]
Thanks man, break that down for me when you get a chance.
Get your feet set before you set the ball. Before the shot get your elbow up a little bit higher, at least above your chin. Your release point looks good.
[QUOTE=Legendofthe718]I'm extremely inconsistent with my shot, and it really affects my game. I've been told I have a very weird shot, and think it may have something to do with my shitty shot. Help guys.
[url]http://youtu.be/cKxdx22AlPw[/url]
[url]http://youtu.be/B3rUtzzpnks[/url][/QUOTE]It's kind of tough to get a great grasp on your shot with such a limited scope, so these suggestions may be subject to change depending upon more looks. I will say, there's a lot of good going here. Wrist snap, follow-through, fluid motion. However, I'll try to delve a little deeper.
1) Starting off, I have questions about your base. It's tough to tell for sure from this angle, but it looks as if your feet are almost pointed toward the opposite sideline instead of toward the hoop.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot1.jpg[/img]
Feet that don't point toward the hoop [i]can[/i] work, but it can also really breed inconsistency. This is because having un-squared feet means you must twist your body to square your upper torso to the hoop, and twisting just the right amount can prove tough. Over twist or under twist just a hair and suddenly your shot's headed slightly to the left or right.
When one's feet are pointed directly at the hoop, all the body shifting guess work goes out the window. Feet are pointed at target, so torso is pointed at target. Every time.
2) I noticed another poster mentioned that left hand. It looks like it [i]may[/i] jut off a little early, but I can't tell for sure. It's like the left is used as a guide for 85% of the shot then you pull it away from the ball during the last sequence prior to release.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot2.jpg[/img]
Tough to see for sure, but if your right hand loses stability right at the end of the stroke (as your left shoots off), it could cause your shot to lose a touch of accuracy right at the end. I try to freeze that left hand and allow my right to shoot the ball out of its launching pad so to speak.
3) Perhaps tying into the left-hand thing. Your right-handed follow-through seems to waver back and forth. The initial follow-through (on the first shot of your first video) seems to pop [i]slightly[/i] to the left, then the hand straightens at the hoop after release before drifting all the way to the right, where you ultimately end with this.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot3.jpg[/img]
Ideally, the whole shooting motion should be a little tighter all the way through the process, as opposed to being spread all about, as we see in the picture above. Here's an example of a tighter process throughout:
[img]http://shotmakeracademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/bos_g_allen_sonics_576.jpg[/img]
Lastly, if your base truly is turned as much as it appears it may be, that could lead to a situation where the lead foot is way too far forward, thus resulting in the slight push shot action.
[QUOTE=Rake2204]It's kind of tough to get a great grasp on your shot with such a limited scope, so these suggestions may be subject to change depending upon more looks. I will say, there's a lot of good going here. Wrist snap, follow-through, fluid motion. However, I'll try to delve a little deeper.
1) Starting off, I have questions about your base. It's tough to tell for sure from this angle, but it looks as if your feet are almost pointed toward the opposite sideline instead of toward the hoop.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot1.jpg[/img]
Feet that don't point toward the hoop [i]can[/i] work, but it can also really breed inconsistency. This is because having un-squared feet means you must twist your body to square your upper torso to the hoop, and twisting just the right amount can prove tough. Over twist or under twist just a hair and suddenly your shot's headed slightly to the left or right.
When one's feet are pointed directly at the hoop, all the body shifting guess work goes out the window. Feet are pointed at target, so torso is pointed at target. Every time.
2) I noticed another poster mentioned that left hand. It looks like it [i]may[/i] jut off a little early, but I can't tell for sure. It's like the left is used as a guide for 85% of the shot then you pull it away from the ball during the last sequence prior to release.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot2.jpg[/img]
Tough to see for sure, but if your right hand loses stability right at the end of the stroke (as your left shoots off), it could cause your shot to lose a touch of accuracy right at the end. I try to freeze that left hand and allow my right to shoot the ball out of its launching pad so to speak.
3) Perhaps tying into the left-hand thing. Your right-handed follow-through seems to waver back and forth. The initial follow-through (on the first shot of your first video) seems to pop [i]slightly[/i] to the left, then the hand straightens at the hoop after release before drifting all the way to the right, where you ultimately end with this.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot3.jpg[/img]
Ideally, the whole shooting motion should be a little tighter all the way through the process, as opposed to being spread all about, as we see in the picture above. Here's an example of a tighter process throughout:
[img]http://shotmakeracademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/bos_g_allen_sonics_576.jpg[/img]
Lastly, if your base truly is turned as much as it appears it may be, that could lead to a situation where the lead foot is way too far forward, thus resulting in the slight push shot action.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the insight man, yeah I actually don't square my feet to the rim, but stagger them, and turn them slightly to the left, and I also turn my shooting side shoulder in so my elbow, and hips are squared to the rim. You can go through those videos to my YouTube page tocheck out some other angles. Man, the left hand thing is kind of confusing, I feel if I keep my left hand on the ball any longer it will alter my shot. As far as my right hand do you want my follow through to be stiff? Am I moving it too early? I appreciate the feedback. It's weird because some people say I have textbook form, and others say it looks like I'm shooting from the top of my head. It's hard to guage what's going on. One thing that is consistent that I hear is that I don't use my legs. I bend my knees to power my shot, so that's confusing as well.
u a big black dude that listens to panda bear?
props
follow the BEEF rule
Balance: you look offset from the beginning. all great shooters will tell you a consistent jumpshot comes from the ground up. your feet can be slight offset but your hips and shoulders have to be square with the rim. you should be aiming with your right hip, but both hips need to be square or else your basically guessing.
Elbow: from your triple threat motion to above your head, your shooting elbow needs to be locked in an L. not so intensely to make your arm tired but enough so that there is NO hinging in your elbow during you shooting motion.
Eye: ball should be released above eye level. elbow on follow through should be above eye level. this will remind you to keep your follow through high and give you a good arc on your shot. You don't seem to be having a problem with this though.
Follow-through: from what I can see you are already doing an okay job with this, but try and exaggerate the snap in your wrist. if you load your wrist back with the ball sort of like this:
[IMG]http://api.ning.com/files/BwdTZMJ7TKTlnOMGzw0AIiCLSb000lqLUJ1*deQkUOX8sToiCc4r2*K39*g0qPFjIgHa5e2sr3L4F6ix*igBJr0xsIH1pR*p/tumblr_lp7hahRRPM1qejjw5o1_500.jpg?width=390&height=600[/IMG]
...your wrist muscles will naturally snap your hand forward. you will get a better follow through by loading your wrist as far as you can. if you can see wrinkles on the back of your hand you will know youre doing it right.
you don't have the worst shot ive ever seen, so these are really basic principles you can use to make some tweaks. some posters before have posted themselves shooting and they need much more work than you. You just have run through this check list in your mind while youre practicing and after a while your body will do the work for you. Train your muscle memory so that this becomes second nature for you
[QUOTE=Legendofthe718]Thanks for the insight man, yeah I actually don't square my feet to the rim, but stagger them, and turn them slightly to the left, and I also turn my shooting side shoulder in so my elbow, and hips are squared to the rim.[/quote]Right on. As said, that works for a lot of people but if you happen to struggle with consistency, that might be a good place to start when looking to tweak one's stroke. Like Burgh's said above, having to manually aim with the elbow to compensate for how crooked the rest of your body is prior to takeoff can require a lot of minuscule, albeit important, calculations that could lead to shooting issues if the guess work isn't exactly perfect.
I happen to be a guy who prefers having it all pointed toward the hoop - my feet, my shoulders, and my elbow. It's what's easiest to me. If everything's straight, I know I don't have to make any other twists or calculations. It's just a catapult straight ahead.
But in the least, I'd follow Burgh's advice of squaring the hips. I think Kevin Durant might have slightly crooked feet on his shot, but his hips remain square ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEJK5g4yVg4[/url])
[quote]Man, the left hand thing is kind of confusing, I feel if I keep my left hand on the ball any longer it will alter my shot.[/quote]Yeah, I'm still on the fence on that one too. I may go check out some other videos of yours to get a better idea. It just looked, at first, like you were pulling your left hand away before you shot when typically, a player just shoots out of the hand, so to speak.
That left hand, ideally, should be along the side of the ball and stationary as you're pushing through with your right. There seems to be a slight flick and splay when looking in slow motion. If you pull the left away, it could lead to some last second instability.
Here's a good example of where the left hand should be throughout the entire process. If you play this shot in slow motion and pause throughout, you'll see Rip's left (his guide) is involved and sticking around for the entire process, until the right arm begins moving upward. Even then, the left stays put - it doesn't release or jut away and off to the side: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLA78Qb3fg#t=2m0s[/url]
^That clip's also a good reference of where the shooting hand should be as well. A tight finish where both arms remain present in the motion, not spread outward and floating away.
Steve Nash is another guy who serves as an example of squared feet and an offhand that stays in it through the process: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9Q7zNRgGo[/url]
[quote]As far as my right hand do you want my follow through to be stiff? Am I moving it too early? I appreciate the feedback. It's weird because some people say I have textbook form, and others say it looks like I'm shooting from the top of my head. It's hard to guage what's going on. One thing that is consistent that I hear is that I don't use my legs. I bend my knees to power my shot, so that's confusing as well.[/QUOTE]As I said, I'll try to take a few more looks, but a lot of your shot may be affected by the drastic placement of your feet, shoulders and hips. By being squared nearly to the opposite sideline, it may be tough to twist and elevate to the best of your abilities.
Further, the placement of the ball, to accommodate for your non-square, must be moved toward the side of your body and head, which may be part of the reason for the slight "from the top of my head" look.
Still, folks are right - you clearly have a ton of the aspects in line. Your shot features a solid, singular motion.
[QUOTE=Burgz V2]follow the BEEF rule
Balance: you look offset from the beginning. all great shooters will tell you a consistent jumpshot comes from the ground up. your feet can be slight offset but your hips and shoulders have to be square with the rim. you should be aiming with your right hip, but both hips need to be square or else your basically guessing.
Elbow: from your triple threat motion to above your head, your shooting elbow needs to be locked in an L. not so intensely to make your arm tired but enough so that there is NO hinging in your elbow during you shooting motion.
Eye: ball should be released above eye level. elbow on follow through should be above eye level. this will remind you to keep your follow through high and give you a good arc on your shot. You don't seem to be having a problem with this though.
Follow-through: from what I can see you are already doing an okay job with this, but try and exaggerate the snap in your wrist. if you load your wrist back with the ball sort of like this:
[IMG]http://api.ning.com/files/BwdTZMJ7TKTlnOMGzw0AIiCLSb000lqLUJ1*deQkUOX8sToiCc4r2*K39*g0qPFjIgHa5e2sr3L4F6ix*igBJr0xsIH1pR*p/tumblr_lp7hahRRPM1qejjw5o1_500.jpg?width=390&height=600[/IMG]
...your wrist muscles will naturally snap your hand forward. you will get a better follow through by loading your wrist as far as you can. if you can see wrinkles on the back of your hand you will know youre doing it right.
you don't have the worst shot ive ever seen, so these are really basic principles you can use to make some tweaks. some posters before have posted themselves shooting and they need much more work than you. You just have run through this check list in your mind while youre practicing and after a while your body will do the work for you. Train your muscle memory so that this becomes second nature for you[/QUOTE]
See all this time I figured I was squared just with feet slightly turned left, how exactly do you square up your shoulders, and hips to the basket. I figured im facing the basket so naturally wouldn't your body be squared already?
Gonna upload a video of me shooting 100 mid range jumpers.
Your feet are relatively fine, there are hardly any great shooters who have their feet square with the basket as it locks up the body and makes your "eye aim" out of alignment with the basket. It's the same reason people in other aiming sports don't square up to their target, think darts and rifle shooting.
What finger is your last to touch the ball? Make sure that finger goes in the middle of the basket. Preferably you'd like your pointing finger for this, but it can take a long time to get used to that as it has to be in the middle of the ball.
You start off with the ball too far away from your body, this makes your shot lose power and probably you have to overcompensate for that making you miss all around the basket.
[QUOTE=ZenMaster]Your feet are relatively fine, there are hardly any great shooters who have their feet square with the basket as it locks up the body and makes your "eye aim" out of alignment with the basket. It's the same reason people in other aiming sports don't square up to their target, think darts and rifle shooting.[/QUOTE]Respectfully, I am unsure I entirely agree with your statement. In fact, I'd argue that many of the greatest shooters we've ever seen have been those who square their feet with the basket. To name a random few, just off the top of one's head:
Tim Legler & Steve Kerr: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqC08Fjp_s[/url]
Richard Hamilton: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx6grn2XRFQ[/url]
Ray Allen: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14NfQNJj7pQ[/url]
Steve Nash: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9Q7zNRgGo[/url]
Kenny Smith: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlW-x-5KCs4[/url]
I believe there are many ways to crack an egg - and a crooked footed shot [i]can[/i] be mastered (I think Carmelo and Durant may both be examples) but if those crooked feet are leading to an entire body shift away from the hoop - or resulting in a lack of leg power from the crooked nature of one's body - I think that can be an issue. And because of an amateur player's tendency to take their body toward where their feet are pointing (and inconsistently trying to overcompensate as a result) - not to mention the balance issues it often presents, it's not a base I tend to encourage.
That said, I suppose I'd have to receive clarification as to what is inferred by "locks up the body" though, because for me, I want my shooters to lock in. I'm trying to limit all the extracurricular activity many try to bring into the shooting process. And again, one of the easiest ways I've been able to achieve that (ditto with the likes of Kerr, Nash, & Allen) is to square up with the feet. If the feet are square and the elbow's in, it's actually a pretty simple process that can readily lead to sharpshooting consistency.
Again though, I can't stress it enough, there's [i]many[/i] different ways to go about developing a killer stroke - and it can still definitely happen with feet not square. But if I'm trying to establish someone's shooting ability - I'll likely be searching for something standard, easy and reliable - and that's what squaring up will do. I do not believe it's coincidence that Steve Nash, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, & Kenny Smith are amongst the "feet square" group. It's not the only way, but it's certainly an effective one.
[QUOTE=Rake2204]Respectfully, I am unsure I entirely agree with your statement. In fact, I'd argue that many of the greatest shooters we've ever seen have been those who square their feet with the basket. To name a random few, just off the top of one's head:
Tim Legler & Steve Kerr: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqC08Fjp_s[/url]
Richard Hamilton: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx6grn2XRFQ[/url]
Ray Allen: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14NfQNJj7pQ[/url]
Steve Nash: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO9Q7zNRgGo[/url]
Kenny Smith: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlW-x-5KCs4[/url]
I believe there are many ways to crack an egg - and a crooked footed shot [i]can[/i] be mastered (I think Carmelo and Durant may both be examples) but if those crooked feet are leading to an entire body shift away from the hoop - or resulting in a lack of leg power from the crooked nature of one's body - I think that can be an issue. And because of an amateur player's tendency to take their body toward where their feet are pointing (and inconsistently trying to overcompensate as a result) - not to mention the balance issues it often presents, it's not a base I tend to encourage.
That said, I suppose I'd have to receive clarification as to what is inferred by "locks up the body" though, because for me, I want my shooters to lock in. I'm trying to limit all the extracurricular activity many try to bring into the shooting process. And again, one of the easiest ways I've been able to achieve that (ditto with the likes of Kerr, Nash, & Allen) is to square up with the feet. If the feet are square and the elbow's in, it's actually a pretty simple process that can readily lead to sharpshooting consistency.
Again though, I can't stress it enough, there's [i]many[/i] different ways to go about developing a killer stroke - and it can still definitely happen with feet not square. But if I'm trying to establish someone's shooting ability - I'll likely be searching for something standard, easy and reliable - and that's what squaring up will do. I do not believe it's coincidence that Steve Nash, Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, & Kenny Smith are amongst the "feet square" group. It's not the only way, but it's certainly an effective one.[/QUOTE]
I pressed the Steve Nash link, to me his feet are pointing towards the camera.
I know we've had this discussion before and we probably wont agree :) , but at the very least if your feet start out by pointing dead on towards the hoop your feet has to turn in the air away from the the hoop as your body turns with it and your right shoulder pushes towards the hoop along with the ball.
From what I have seen, basically none of the great shooters land with their feet pointing towards the hoop.
[IMG]http://nicekicks.com/files/2010/01/koc-ja-6-7.jpg[/IMG]
I think this pictures illustrates pretty well what I mean as the photographer is clearly along the FT line. If your postulate is that Nash starts out square to the hoop then you can clearly see that he is twisting his body along with his right shoulder and feet which launches the ball towards the hoop.
This way his line of goes elbow - finger - hoop.
[QUOTE=ZenMaster]I pressed the Steve Nash link, to me his feet are pointing towards the camera.
I know we've had this discussion before and we probably wont agree :) , but at the very least if your feet start out by pointing dead on towards the hoop your feet has to turn in the air away from the the hoop as your body turns with it and your right shoulder pushes towards the hoop along with the ball.
From what I have seen, basically none of the great shooters land with their feet pointing towards the hoop.
[IMG]http://nicekicks.com/files/2010/01/koc-ja-6-7.jpg[/IMG]
I think this pictures illustrates pretty well what I mean as the photographer is clearly along the FT line. If your postulate is that Nash starts out square to the hoop then you can clearly see that he is twisting his body along with his right shoulder and feet which launches the ball towards the hoop.
This way his line of goes elbow - finger - hoop.[/QUOTE]Yeah, we've probably covered this, haha.
As far as landing, that's not even a part of the equation when I'm teaching someone to shoot (or working on my own shot). That part shouldn't matter a ton beyond a player jumping straight up and straight down (as opposed to drifting or falling).
The idea behind squaring the feet in the first place is to have a perfect, balanced base and target with the absolute minimal amount of adjustments necessary.
Could there be a slightly crooked foot here or there? Surely. I know my right foot crooks a touch by default due to my wide stance. But the body and the legs are still fully squared.
I wish I could find the clip, but just a few months ago Kenny Smith did a demonstration on NBATV where he claimed there were days growing up where he wouldn't even practice shooting, he'd just throw himself a pass and practice squaring by pointing his feet at the hoop over and over.
I'd venture to say that virtually no shooter (and none of the players I mentioned with video links) is concerned with whether their feet land slightly pointed. All the guys listed care about (regarding their feet) is squaring them to the hoop at the start of the process.
I'd actually say where a person's legs are in mid-air and where they land is more a [i]result[/i] of the shooting process as opposed to being a part of the shooting process itself.
[QUOTE=Rake2204]Yeah, we've probably covered this, haha.
As far as landing, that's not even a part of the equation when I'm teaching someone to shoot (or working on my own shot). That part shouldn't matter a ton beyond a player jumping straight up and straight down (as opposed to drifting or falling).
The idea behind squaring the feet in the first place is to have a perfect, balanced base and target with the absolute minimal amount of adjustments necessary.
Could there be a slightly crooked foot here or there? Surely. I know my right foot crooks a touch by default due to my wide stance. But the body and the legs are still fully squared.
I wish I could find the clip, but just a few months ago Kenny Smith did a demonstration on NBATV where he claimed there were days growing up where he wouldn't even practice shooting, he'd just throw himself a pass and practice squaring by pointing his feet at the hoop over and over.
I'd venture to say that virtually no shooter (and none of the players I mentioned with video links) is concerned with whether their feet land slightly pointed. All the guys listed care about (regarding their feet) is squaring them to the hoop at the start of the process.[/QUOTE]
They don't care about it because they have figured it out, that your body needs to turn a bit in the air. There is a reason all the greats feet turn away from the hoop when they are in the air on a shot, I think it's called body kinetics, in this case it's the most effecient way of launching a ball towards a basketball hoop. The feet needs to turn in order to get elbow - finger - hoop aim, you cannot get that aim if your body is square with your target.
It's common reason that if you are a right handed shooter, then your right shoulder needs to move forward from the original line across the chest to the left one. In order to achieve this you have to turn all of your body including hips and feet, or else it is going to look and feel really weird.
You've seen Steve Nashes feet point away from the basket in the air, here are some more.
[IMG]http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/richard_deitsch/11/03/qa.miller/t1_miller.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1467753/20130224_krg_bs2_295.0_medium.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/200/482/113163772_display_image.jpg?1313581423[/IMG]
[IMG]http://4.kicksonfire.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/koc-4-9-2011-3.jpg[/IMG]
I've also sent you a PM with a link to a movie of a few shots from one of my former players. He came to me 2-3 years ago and said he'd really like to be able to shoot it, he has taken any advice I have given him and we have worked on intensively every summer in that span and also through the seasons. He shoots pretty much how I want a player to do it.
As you mentioned previously, I think we're just going to have to conclude what we likely concluded last time - that our philosophies differ and there's numerous ways to break an egg (or become a knockdown shooter). Just as you've experienced success in your teaching strategies (video is private, by the way), as have I.
In my case, that means I prefer pointing the feet at the hoop (or very, very close to being pointed toward the hoop). I feel the slight stagger that occurs (right foot just a touch forward) properly accommodates for the angle needed. Video examples of said technique were included on the previous page.
That said, we may be closer to the same page than we believe. For instance, it sometimes reads as though you're saying players physically try to turn their bodies during their shots. However, I assume you just mean that's something that can sometimes happens naturally as the result of the shooting process. And again, what happens to a player's feet in the air is a different world from where they are upon initial square.
But again, to be totally clear - we just have different philosophies and I'm confident they both can work out just fine. I'm certain there's links supporting both ways we speak of (mine tends to be most similar to Dave Hopla and Clippers assistant Kevin Eastman: [url]http://wordsonthebounce.wordpress.com/2011/07/01/tips-to-become-a-great-shooter/[/url] & [url]http://hoopthoughts.blogspot.com/2010/08/kevin-eastman-tips-for-shooting.html)[/url]. 10 toes to the target seems to be the catchphrase.
But either way, always fun to compare notes. It's good to hear different theories and find means to incorporate different aspects.
Edit: Just saw the video you posted of your boy. We are [i]way[/i] closer on this than we think. That's squared up enough for me, haha. Good stuff.
I think Both of you guys are kinda " right" ( Rake and Zen )
Ultimately you want yer dominate hand ( shooting hand ) to follow through straight, and it does help to slightly turn/twist the base because it helps point the shoulder/hand on the follow through.
but exactly how much of a turn?.......everyone's body type is different....
It helps in practice to square yer feet.....because in a game scenario you do not have time to adjust. ( practice perfect)
It comes down to the indivdual IMO....a very slight turn helps out in some cases to help the shooting hand have a straight follow through....[B]the key is to keep the base movement (dip and hop)consistent on every shot.(witch in turn helps the touch of the ball....helps you have muscle memory) [/B]
______________________________________________
as far as the OP,
yer shot has some very good habits.....
- need to work on follow through and "touch" ( touch, meaning how to properly gauge distance/how much power you need from every spot on the court)
- Follow through ( dominate hand) needs to be consistent and guiding the ball on a straight path towards the hoop.
- all this has to be remedied by perfect practice, and repetition...[B]alot[/B] of repetition.
No one wakes up shooting like Ray Allen ( especially in game scenarios)
Lucky for Ray, His dad was in the Military and had access to BBALL Gym's on every corner....Ray would often wake up at 6am and shoot for 2hrs with his dad before school.....stressing the importance of keeping his base and follow through consistent on every shot!
hows my jumpshot?
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFxHLhYFnIQ[/url]
imma try and get a new video soon of a more clear look at my jumpshot
[QUOTE=L3B120N J4M35]hows my jumpshot?
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFxHLhYFnIQ[/url]
imma try and get a new video soon of a more clear look at my jumpshot[/QUOTE]
yer shot has a low release/ and little arc. Hard to really explain how to improve on the internet. ( i'll try)
[B]During yer shooting motion[/B] .....You need to have the ball come over yer forehead and release high above yer head ( slightly forward.
[IMG]http://www.coaching-basketball-for-beginners.com/images/basketball-shooting-tips3.jpg[/IMG]
again....the ball doesn't start there....it starts in the shot pocket ( and the whole body works in rhythm) and travels up straight ( bye the forehead) and releases high over ( slightly in front) over yer head.
hope that made sense.
[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]yer shot has a low release/ and little arc. Hard to really explain how to improve on the internet. ( i'll try)
[B]During yer shooting motion[/B] .....You need to have the ball come over yer forehead and release high above yer head ( slightly forward.
[IMG]http://www.coaching-basketball-for-beginners.com/images/basketball-shooting-tips3.jpg[/IMG]
again....the ball doesn't start there....it starts in the shot pocket ( and the whole body works in rhythm) and travels up straight ( bye the forehead) and releases high over ( slightly in front) over yer head.
hope that made sense.[/QUOTE]
yeah i realized that. i think my shot is pretty on, but sometimes I'm just a lil too inconsistent.
This is why I'm so confused, some people say square feet, others say turn. Turning my feet does feel more comfortable, I just have a hard time really squaring up especially shooting from an angle, what's the easiest way to square up without having to look down to make sure my feet are actually facing the rim, it feels weird because I check to make sure I'm squared, and then shoot. Doesn't seem to help my shot at all.
[QUOTE=Legendofthe718]This is why I'm so confused, some people say square feet, others say turn. Turning my feet does feel more comfortable, I just have a hard time really squaring up especially shooting from an angle, what's the easiest way to square up without having to look down to make sure my feet are actually facing the rim, it feels weird because I check to make sure I'm squared, and then shoot. Doesn't seem to help my shot at all.[/QUOTE]To some degree, I think you must do what's most comfortable for you. I guess the issue comes when comfort is not yielding results.
I think there's a happy-medium between what Zen and I are saying, and I think Zen and I are close to being on the same track as is - maybe Alpha's advice serves as that middleground ("It comes down to the indivdual IMO....a very slight turn helps out in some cases to help the shooting hand have a straight follow through....the key is to keep the base movement (dip and hop)consistent on every shot.")
You may not need to have both feet pointed [i]exactly[/i] at the rim (though I still believe it could aid in providing a solid base for consistency), but I also would not recommend your current stance that leaves your feet pointed directly toward the sideline.
One way or another, it'd seem you might need to get your chest/body just a bit more squared up with your target. As it stands, the alignment of your body at the beginning of your stroke would seem to suggest you're going to be shooting to the direct corner of the gym or even a touch further:
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/ShotEx.jpg[/img]
And in truth, if you [i]were[/i] shooting to the corner, your follow through might have stayed tighter and more consistent. My current hypothesis is, with your body initially squaring to an area far left of your actual target, you may be subconsciously trying to compensate by trying to bring the ball to the right, resulting in the shooting hand sweeping and ending all cockeyed to the right after the shot's been completed.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot3.jpg[/img]
Question, what do your free throws look like?
[QUOTE=Rake2204]To some degree, I think you must do what's most comfortable for you. I guess the issue comes when comfort is not yielding results.
I think there's a happy-medium between what Zen and I are saying, and I think Zen and I close to being on the same track as is - maybe Alpha's advice serves as that middleground ("It comes down to the indivdual IMO....a very slight turn helps out in some cases to help the shooting hand have a straight follow through....the key is to keep the base movement (dip and hop)consistent on every shot.")
You may not need to have both feet pointed [i]exactly[/i] at the rim (though I still believe it could aid in providing a solid base for consistency), but I also would not recommend your current stance that leaves your feet pointed directly toward the sideline.
One way or another, it'd seem you might need to get your chest/body just a bit more squared up with your target. As it stands, the alignment of your body at the beginning of your stroke would seem to suggest you're going to be shooting to the direct corner of the gym or even a touch further:
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/ShotEx.jpg[/img]
And in truth, if you [i]were[/i] shooting to the corner, your follow through might have stayed tighter and more consistent. My current hypothesis is, with your body initially squaring to an area far left of your actual target, you may be subconsciously trying to compensate by trying to bring the ball to the right, resulting in the shooting hand sweeping and ending all cockeyed to the right after the shot's been completed.
[img]http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g423/Rake2204/Shot3.jpg[/img]
Question, what do your free throws look like?[/QUOTE]
Ah ok, I see what you mean. My hand does tend to drift a bit to the side when I shoot, so I need to try to keep it stiffer, and keep my guide hand closer to my shooting hand. I'll practice on trying to square myself up better, I guess turning works for people who are a bit more advanced, and have a much more solid base.
As far as my free throws go, they're actually not bad, I'm a really good with hitting free throws, it seems the problems come into play when shooting jumpshots. I'll try to upload a video, of my free throw shooting. To give you an idea.
So how should I square up to the rim, how do I get my body in alignment correctly?
[QUOTE=Legendofthe718]So how should I square up to the rim, how do I get my body in alignment correctly?[/QUOTE]This may sound overly simplified, but it's still something I do to this day: I'd recommend starting at the front of the rim (literally about a foot away) and doing some form shooting. By this I mean taking your time, getting your feet set & body square, then using just one hand on the ball to shoot and follow through.
One of the videos I shared a few posts ago is actually pretty on point: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPOif-Kkx9s#t=0m23s[/url]
Form shooting practice may better allow you to diagnose your own shooting issues as well. Using one hand, I imagine it's going to be tough to have that sweeping left-to-right follow through while still experiencing great success.
The form shooting will basically lock you in to doing it right.
-Point your body at the hoop
-Get your elbow in
-Follow straight up and through.
I also support the manner with which he reinstitutes the left hand at some point too. Once the one-handed stroke begins feeling right, bring the left back into the equation and put it all together.
Another angle: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Oelu4pzHs#t=2m30s[/url]
I wasn't sure at first, but I'm beginning to believe Dave Hopla is the guy for which I derived my stroke. We had a prominent "shot doctor" come in each year at the University of Michigan basketball camp in the late 90's and in hindsight, I think this was him. It'd make sense, because it's pretty much exactly what I based my shooting technique off of: [url]http://www.usab.com/youth/news/2012/01/the-man-who-doesnt-miss-shots.aspx[/url]
[QUOTE=Rake2204]This may sound overly simplified, but it's still something I do to this day: I'd recommend starting at the front of the rim (literally about a foot away) and doing some form shooting. By this I mean taking your time, getting your feet set & body square, then using just one hand on the ball to shoot and follow through.
One of the videos I shared a few posts ago is actually pretty on point: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPOif-Kkx9s#t=0m23s[/url]
Form shooting practice may better allow you to diagnose your own shooting issues as well. Using one hand, I imagine it's going to be tough to have that sweeping left-to-right follow through while still experiencing great success.
The form shooting will basically lock you in to doing it right.
-Point your body at the hoop
-Get your elbow in
-Follow straight up and through.
I also support the manner with which he reinstitutes the left hand at some point too. Once the one-handed stroke begins feeling right, bring the left back into the equation and put it all together.
Another angle: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2Oelu4pzHs#t=2m30s[/url]
I wasn't sure at first, but I'm beginning to believe Dave Hopla is the guy for which I derived my stroke. We had a prominent "shot doctor" come in each year at the University of Michigan basketball camp in the late 90's and in hindsight, I think this was him. It'd make sense, because it's pretty much exactly what I based my shooting technique off of: [url]http://www.usab.com/youth/news/2012/01/the-man-who-doesnt-miss-shots.aspx[/url][/QUOTE]
Ah ok, I'll try that out to see if it will help. The thing that sucks for me was growing up, Only thing I was really into was skating ( skateboarding) I didn't get into basketball until my early 20's, and I pretty much self taught myself. So it's a bit harder for me to grasp a lot of these concepts you bring up. I will try to post another video of me shooting, that shows my whole body in better view, so it's easier to diagnose.
what's up bro.
a lot of the posters gave you good some good tips, didn't read through all of them though.
but i'd like to highlight some things for you and give you a summary.
you want to do all of the following:
turn, sweep, and sway.
old school shooting mechanics was to square up, but bio-mechanically this is incorrect.
when you shoot, do not turn your body to face the basket, this is wrong, and it builds up TENSION in your shoulders, which is bad.
the transfer of energy has to be efficient when shooting. square up ONLY your shooting shoulder, hip, and elbow. feet should be turned before the jump.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq_EppDGO6Q[/url]
watch that video. he's one of the best shooting coaches ever, if not the most advanced and up to date with the most prestige in USA Basketball
also, another HUGE thing i want to point out--- you have a 2 motion shot.
increase your vertical, as the 2 motion jumper relies on---a jump.
i recommend strength training
all the best
[QUOTE=AirBourne92]what's up bro.
a lot of the posters gave you good some good tips, didn't read through all of them though.
but i'd like to highlight some things for you and give you a summary.
you want to do all of the following:
turn, sweep, and sway.
old school shooting mechanics was to square up, but bio-mechanically this is incorrect.
when you shoot, do not turn your body to face the basket, this is wrong, and it builds up TENSION in your shoulders, which is bad.
the transfer of energy has to be efficient when shooting. square up ONLY your shooting shoulder, hip, and elbow. feet should be turned before the jump.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq_EppDGO6Q[/url]
watch that video. he's one of the best shooting coaches ever, if not the most advanced and up to date with the most prestige in USA Basketball
also, another HUGE thing i want to point out--- you have a 2 motion shot.
increase your vertical, as the 2 motion jumper relies on---a jump.
i recommend strength training
all the best[/QUOTE]Respectfully, I disagree that squaring up is flat out wrong. There's numerous ways to develop an effective shot (Shawn Marion even hit almost 40% from NBA range at one point) and your approach is another way to make it happen, but to reject the potential effectiveness of squaring the body is totally misguided (not to mention that I do not believe it builds tension in the shoulders).
To be honest, a lot of the internet shooting system marketers seem to have brain-washed a lot of folks trying to get their shot right. It's borderline religious zealotry in many cases. After watching the video above (and others by him), not only are the comments full of "Hey! This worked!", but there's also a heavy touch of "This is the only way and everyone else is completely incorrect."
[b]The Sway[/b]
Moreover, I believe a lot of the mechanics that some of the greatest shooters of all-time used have been misinterpreted. For instance, the "sweep and sway" thing. Players weren't literally taught to make their feet sway forward while in mid-air, just as they weren't taught to try to make their feet land in a particular way when they came down. Rather, those things tend to be a natural result from other aspects of the shooting process.
Personally, I find consciously working on a mid-air sway to be unproductive and not always conducive to the actual shooting process. To me, one's feet will move ahead regardless if someone is properly balanced. As long as I followed my mechanics (square, balance, elbow, follow-through, for starters), I don't have much regard for whether I'm swaying or not. If squaring, loading, and firing shooting my shot right makes my feet look funny while in mid-air, I don't think I'd have any idea.
[b]Feelings on Internet Snake Oil Salesmen[/b]
I don't know, a lot of those online systems (in particular the proshooting thing) feels like someone trying to make a sale by creating a different way to say the same thing while retroactively trying to suggest that everyone's making a point to follow his advice. I feel as though he could take a video of me shooting and say "Now here's a guy who understands sweep & sway" when it reality working on that aspect played no role in my shooting development.
I feel it's like me making up the "Not Quite Nose" technique where shooters bring the ball back but not quite far enough to hit their nose, then me retroactively going back in history and saying "See, look at everyone following my well-established technique, because it works. This is the new strategy to shooting. They may say they're not following my technique, but that's because they're in the fog and can't see for themselves." I'm glad it works for some, but there's more going on there than simply trying to improve people's shots.
One of those videos discussed how B.E.E.F. didn't work because it was incomplete. I agree. People couldn't just say "B.E.E.F." and expect no other interpretation would be needed. I think the same could be said about whatever other systems are created though (I think that one was F.O.R.E.S.T.). Seems to be a classic case of "They're wrong, let me show you the right way while blanketing it over players who did not use my strategies. Now you pay for my new manifesto."
[b]Many Ways to Break an Egg, Including Squaring Up[/b]
Again, [b]purposely severely pointing one's feet from the hoop is fine if that's what works[/b], but squaring one's body is not wrong (says Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Steve Kerr, Tim Legler, Kenny Smith, Mark Price and thousands of others). Slight crooks in the feet will happen (just a hair over from perfect foot-point is common and normal when squaring, in fact) but this is far divorced from willfully trying to point the legs in the wrong direction.
I've shot squared to the hoop for the vast majority of my life and it has served me well. On each shot, my goal was to point my feet at the bucket. At some point, I realized my right foot sometimes tilted inward a touch due to my wide stance, but I maintain my square.
As Mark Price says, "the feet are the compass of the body", so when looking for a simple means of forming consistency, squaring the feet will mean squaring the body, which will mean a correctly-elbowed shot will always go straight, no other real adjustments needed from an aiming standpoint. Square and fire.
[QUOTE=Rake2204]Respectfully, I disagree that squaring up is flat out wrong. There's numerous ways to develop an effective shot (Shawn Marion even hit almost 40% from NBA range at one point) and your approach is another way to make it happen, but to reject the potential effectiveness of squaring the body is totally misguided (not to mention that I do not believe it builds tension in the shoulders).
To be honest, a lot of the internet shooting system marketers seem to have brain-washed a lot of folks trying to get their shot right. It's borderline religious zealotry in many cases. After watching the video above (and others by him), not only are the comments full of "Hey! This worked!", but there's also a heavy touch of "This is the only way and everyone else is completely incorrect."
[b]The Sway[/b]
Moreover, I believe a lot of the mechanics that some of the greatest shooters of all-time used have been misinterpreted. For instance, the "sweep and sway" thing. Players weren't literally taught to make their feet sway forward while in mid-air, just as they weren't taught to try to make their feet land in a particular way when they came down. Rather, those things tend to be a natural result from other aspects of the shooting process.
Personally, I find consciously working on a mid-air sway to be unproductive and not always conducive to the actual shooting process. To me, one's feet will move ahead regardless if someone is properly balanced. As long as I followed my mechanics (square, balance, elbow, follow-through, for starters), I don't have much regard for whether I'm swaying or not. If squaring, loading, and firing shooting my shot right makes my feet look funny while in mid-air, I don't think I'd have any idea.
[b]Feelings on Internet Snake Oil Salesmen[/b]
I don't know, a lot of those online systems (in particular the proshooting thing) feels like someone trying to make a sale by creating a different way to say the same thing while retroactively trying to suggest that everyone's making a point to follow his advice. I feel as though he could take a video of me shooting and say "Now here's a guy who understands sweep & sway" when it reality working on that aspect played no role in my shooting development.
I feel it's like me making up the "Not Quite Nose" technique where shooters bring the ball back but not quite far enough to hit their nose, then me retroactively going back in history and saying "See, look at everyone following my well-established technique, because it works. This is the new strategy to shooting. They may say they're not following my technique, but that's because they're in the fog and can't see for themselves." I'm glad it works for some, but there's more going on there than simply trying to improve people's shots.
One of those videos discussed how B.E.E.F. didn't work because it was incomplete. I agree. People couldn't just say "B.E.E.F." and expect no other interpretation would be needed. I think the same could be said about whatever other systems are created though (I think that one was F.O.R.E.S.T.). Seems to be a classic case of "They're wrong, let me show you the right way while blanketing it over players who did not use my strategies. Now you pay for my new manifesto."
[b]Many Ways to Break an Egg, Including Squaring Up[/b]
Again, [b]purposely severely pointing one's feet from the hoop is fine if that's what works[/b], but squaring one's body is not wrong (says Ray Allen, Richard Hamilton, Steve Kerr, Tim Legler, Kenny Smith, Mark Price and thousands of others). Slight crooks in the feet will happen (just a hair over from perfect foot-point is common and normal when squaring, in fact) but this is far divorced from willfully trying to point the legs in the wrong direction.
I've shot squared to the hoop for the vast majority of my life and it has served me well. On each shot, my goal was to point my feet at the bucket. At some point, I realized my right foot sometimes tilted inward a touch due to my wide stance, but I maintain my square.
As Mark Price says, "the feet are the compass of the body", so when looking for a simple means of forming consistency, squaring the feet will mean squaring the body, which will mean a correctly-elbowed shot will always go straight, no other real adjustments needed from an aiming standpoint. Square and fire.[/QUOTE]
I hear what you are saying man, and I agree to a degree.
You mentioned Shawn marion who is a great example of shooting without following proper mechanics.
I guess I should have made it clear in my intent, which could be up for debate as well from what you have said regarding marketing a certain system-- "fastest way to gain consistency in jumper"
these basketball players dedicate a significant amount of their time to the sport and can manage to put in hours and hours of work into making their unorthodox shot work to get it to the level of consistency they need in the NBA with the amount of pressure they get.
if someone is playing pick up or is trying to tryout for a team, i would think that a cutting edge system would be the best bet to improve in a short time frame.
as for squaring up, the funny thing is, i think every single great shooter in the NBA in today's league turns their feet if im not mistaken, if not at least 95%.
and that's not to say players in the past weren't good shooters, i think steve kerr completely squares up and he is a great shooter.
but in terms of the evolution of the game in all elements and components, we have been at an all time high, and the whole advancement started in the late 90s i believe.
observing the shooters in today's league, it certainly makes a great correlation in between "advanced" shooting techniques.
sorry if i rambled all over the place lol ill respond better when i get home
[QUOTE=AirBourne92]I hear what you are saying man, and I agree to a degree.
You mentioned Shawn marion who is a great example of shooting without following proper mechanics.
I guess I should have made it clear in my intent, which could be up for debate as well from what you have said regarding marketing a certain system-- "fastest way to gain consistency in jumper"
these basketball players dedicate a significant amount of their time to the sport and can manage to put in hours and hours of work into making their unorthodox shot work to get it to the level of consistency they need in the NBA with the amount of pressure they get.
if someone is playing pick up or is trying to tryout for a team, i would think that a cutting edge system would be the best bet to improve in a short time frame.[/quote]It may be a system, but I balk at referencing it as being cutting edge. As mentioned previously, many aspects of that system are just verbalizing things that happen on a typical shot anyhow (the ball dipping and the "sway" that occurs when someone oftentimes jumps). Still, if it works for people, then it works for people.
The reason I stick to teaching squaring up actually has to do with the ease of establishment (i.e. the ability to improve a stroke in a short time frame).
With developing shooters in need of guidance, I often come across players with their feet splayed all over the place, their body twisted, elbow out, two-hand shooting. The goal is to readily bring order where they previously wasn't any. The simplest effective process? Point one's body at the hoop, shoot straight, generally speaking. The idea is to provide a reference point for which players can develop a consistent stroke made up of readymade calculations upon every spot up.
[quote]as for squaring up, the funny thing is, i think every single great shooter in the NBA in today's league turns their feet if im not mistaken, if not at least 95%.[/quote]I think this aspect is a point of contention and slight miscommunication. To be completely forthright, I think there's a fair amount of shooters who try to square up on every shot and actually end up with the slightest tilt of their feet, even though their body remains primarily square. I do not mind that.
My bigger issue is the more dramatic and intentional non-squaring of one's feet. When teaching shooting, I encourage facing one's target, which often and usually means pointing one's feet "pretty much" at the hoop. I've noticed that attempting to square up can sometimes naturally lead to a slight foot tilt while retaining square, as opposed to willfully suggesting a player not create a direct correlation to the hoop.
[quote]and that's not to say players in the past weren't good shooters, i think steve kerr completely squares up and he is a great shooter.
but in terms of the evolution of the game in all elements and components, we have been at an all time high, and the whole advancement started in the late 90s i believe.
observing the shooters in today's league, it certainly makes a great correlation in between "advanced" shooting techniques.[/QUOTE]Like the conversation I had with Zen earlier, we're probably closer on this than we think, as I don't necessarily mind slight tilts in feet if the body remains square (like, say Kyle Korver, who appears square for all intents and purposes). I'd be very surprised if even the majority of sharp-shooters these days would suggest willfully not squaring up.
Still, surely it appears the shooting technique you posted is helping shooters, and that's cool. It just seems more like a guy's decision to try to whip something up from scratch, create a following, and make a buck, largely by plucking out things that already existed in shooting and trying to make them appear cutting edge.
[QUOTE=Rake2204]It may be a system, but I balk at referencing it as being cutting edge. As mentioned previously, many aspects of that system are just verbalizing things that happen on a typical shot anyhow (the ball dipping and the "sway" that occurs when someone oftentimes jumps). Still, if it works for people, then it works for people.
The reason I stick to teaching squaring up actually has to do with the ease of establishment (i.e. the ability to improve a stroke in a short time frame).
With developing shooters in need of guidance, I often come across players with their feet splayed all over the place, their body twisted, elbow out, two-hand shooting. The goal is to readily bring order where they previously wasn't any. The simplest effective process? Point one's body at the hoop, shoot straight, generally speaking. The idea is to provide a reference point for which players can develop a consistent stroke made up of readymade calculations upon every spot up.
I think this aspect is a point of contention and slight miscommunication. To be completely forthright, I think there's a fair amount of shooters who try to square up on every shot and actually end up with the slightest tilt of their feet, even though their body remains primarily square. I do not mind that.
My bigger issue is the more dramatic and intentional non-squaring of one's feet. When teaching shooting, I encourage facing one's target, which often and usually means pointing one's feet "pretty much" at the hoop. I've noticed that attempting to square up can sometimes naturally lead to a slight foot tilt while retaining square, as opposed to willfully suggesting a player not create a direct correlation to the hoop.
Like the conversation I had with Zen earlier, we're probably closer on this than we think, as I don't necessarily mind slight tilts in feet if the body remains square (like, say Kyle Korver, who appears square for all intents and purposes). I'd be very surprised if even the majority of sharp-shooters these days would suggest willfully not squaring up.
Still, surely it appears the shooting technique you posted is helping shooters, and that's cool. It just seems more like a guy's decision to try to whip something up from scratch, create a following, and make a buck, largely by plucking out things that already existed in shooting and trying to make them appear cutting edge.[/QUOTE]
i completely agree with what you are saying, my bad for not understanding the first time.
i think one of the things that is "cutting-edge" is the "hop"
what do you think