This team is a joke, Lowry has been exposed as the regular season wonder he is. Keep Demar, Patpat and Jonas. The rest need to be traded, fire Casey. Tank for #1 pick.
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This team is a joke, Lowry has been exposed as the regular season wonder he is. Keep Demar, Patpat and Jonas. The rest need to be traded, fire Casey. Tank for #1 pick.
Getting exposed big time in this series.
Masai better get shit done this offseason
Brutal to watch...urgh
I never really understood how the Raptor's offence was top 3 despite having a guard-heavy team full of ballstoppers. The ball movement is absolutely terrible.
What a massive step in backward for Toronto basketball. Big changes need to come. So upset !
Lowry has been hurt, that much is obvious. Back spasms aren't a joke and he can't move well right now. Still, he's a far better option than Vasquez of the floor. He had a bad series but they aren't many on the team having a good one either.
Lowry had big time playoff games last season. Far from a regular season wonder. He might not be playing at a high level like he was early on in the future, but he can still play.
Holy over-reaction batman!
Casey gots to go...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ni6Q6xC.gif[/IMG]
Lowry is clearly playing hurt, anyone who can't see that is..... questionable.
[QUOTE=Dr.Funk]Holy over-reaction batman![/QUOTE]
I'd take it as a form of venting.
There should be a major shake up in the off season, though. Masai has hinted to it.
Jonas been shit in the series, but he's been treaded as shit whole season. Now every time he gets the ball he feels like he must score and then he tries to score to quickly or does something stupid.
Casey has to go obviously. Biggest dilema is what to do with Lowry, we just signed him 4yrs 48m, if he was getting more money trading would be harder, on the other hand we are not paying him anything close to max therefore contracct isn't that bad to hold on.
The coaching staff that has 0 offensive schemes and even less defensive ideas and negative player development needs to be banned from the country. Let's not even talk about in game and between game adjustments.
Casey, lou, ross, hans and maybe vasquez have to go.
Need to sign a legit 4.
[QUOTE=Himan12]Casey, lou, ross, hans and maybe vasquez have to go.
Need to sign a legit 4.[/QUOTE]
I agree with most.
I'd like to keep lou for instant offence off the bench. But if he demands too much money for being sixth man, we can do without.
Ross is the absolute worst! Does not deserve starter minutes. Want him gone.
Vasquez defence negates any good he does on offence. Much prefer a conventional back up, with pass first/tough defence.
Casey had has chance. Got us as far as he could I think. Bye bye
Don't care about what happens to Hans.
Need a starting 3 and 4. And a new coach.
My heart is still aching we need to get this series over with so i can start to recover.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Strongest to Weakest in terms to the position on the team.
1) SG
2) PG
3) PF
4) C
5) SF
SF is the most glaring weakness and it's the most versatile position, especially to have a 3&Dposition. I get that the team needs a better starting PF, but it's stronger than C considering there's nobody legit backing up JV.
SG is definitely the strongest if we keep Lou. Kyle regressed and I think DeMar will surpass as a player in the future. Also, if we do keep Lou, Vasquez has to go and get better defensive minded PG or a swingman.
Players who I can also see walking or traded: Stiemsma, Hans, Hayes, Fields, Ross, Amir, Lou, Vasquez.
The only guy who would stay and I wouldn't have a problem with keeping is Amir and perhaps Lou, but Lou will be tough to keep especially considering he won the 6th man of the year award. Amir I can see walking because of ankle injuries. I would want to see him in a reserve role to back up JV.
Raps need to find a starting SF with size, defense, and a 3 point shot (easier said than done), stretch PF (Millsap ? Would demand a lot too), defensive minded PG or swing man of the bench, and a head coach that runs a proper system around JV and the back court.
[QUOTE=BoogieWoogieMan]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ni6Q6xC.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[B]
+1[/B]
If we keep Lou then Vasquez has to leave. Both those guys play a similar role off the bench and it would be redundant to have them both.
I don't understand why the coaching staff made Vasquez into such a chucker. Didn't he lead the league in assists one year when he was in New Orleans? :facepalm
Do not want lou at all. He just chucks and cant defend at all. The only players I would keep for sure would be derozan, val, lowry, patterson and amir. A serious retool is needed.
[QUOTE=Dr.Funk]Holy over-reaction batman![/QUOTE]
:cheers:
Where were all these posts in November ??? Where was all this wisdom when they were 21 - 5 ??
LMAO.
This team is average.
The over under preseason was 47 in a weak eastern conference.
In the past two seasons they have won nearly 100 games in the regular season and 3 wins 8 losses in the post season.
They have respectable core players in Lowry / Derozan who are "perhaps" All Star caliber with some deficiencies. They have a deep (reasonably) bench with a number of solid rotation players and a couple of good prospects (Bruno / Noreiga).
They have an experienced NBA coach who has approximately 3 years experience and a nearly 500 record with at least one championship under his belt as an assistant coach.
They have approximately $17 million of available cap space BEFORE the cap is readjusted upwards for the TV deal.
They have 3 draft picks in next 2 years and will host the all star game highlighting the quality of living in Toronto.
You know what ??? Nothing is bad. Its all promising for the future.
Lord knows I might have been Mr Negative after drafting Bruno but there are so many opportunities for this franchise for the next 5 years [U]we never had before.[/U]
1) Improve the quality of coaching through growth and or hiring additional experience to supplement Casey
2) Get better players with the cap flexability
3) Draft and keep the next 3 first rounders. 1 ~ at least will turn out to be a quality player.
4) Get Bruno's development on track. Buy a D league franchise with Minnesota and get our guys minutes.
5) With the young "position deep" average roster we have now... and cap space... take a run at a really high impact player. See if we can get a legitimate 100% All Star to join while keeping our draft picks. If you get close to being a legitimate threat for the big prize then go out and spend over the cap / tax threshold and get the 2nd all-star you need to make a run for the ring.
[QUOTE=Skywalker]Lowry is clearly playing hurt, anyone who can't see that is..... questionable.[/QUOTE]
So is Derrick Rose, how's that going?
[QUOTE=A.M.G.]So is Derrick Rose, how's that going?[/QUOTE]
He doesn't look hurt, whatsoever. Also, Chicago has a much better team/coach covering for Rose (he wasn't even the 2nd best player on Chicago this year, maybe not even 3rd best) and are playing a weaker opponent currently.
Recent report by Marc Stein summarized:
1. Raptors likely to keep Casey, who will entering the 2nd year of his 3 year contract.
2. Lowry, Derozan and Valanciunas likely to stay.
3. Significant changes to team roster expected.
[QUOTE=SESSEL15]Recent report by Marc Stein summarized:
1. Raptors likely to keep Casey, who will entering the 2nd year of his 3 year contract.
2. Lowry, Derozan and Valanciunas likely to stay.
3. Significant changes to team roster expected.[/QUOTE]
Points 2 and 3 is good, Casey staying is not.
[QUOTE=Sakkreth]Points 2 and 3 is good, Casey staying is not.[/QUOTE]
At least Casey's 3rd year is a team option. I figured there was a chance of bringing him back, but I don't understand bringing JV back if thats the case unless he's going to play more. It's clear he doesn't fit the current system and that's a fault on Casey and the coaching staff for making him top heavy and slow, not the pick n roll player he was when he entered the league.
The 3rd point will intrigue me the most. With the 3 core players seemingly the only guys confirmed to return, this is going go be a major retool. I for one am looking forward to the busy off season.
Point 3 is mis-direction.
It says nothing. What exactly is "major" ?
I mean we already know:
1) Amir is due. May or may not be back. Certainly not as a starter.
2) Cedric is gone
3) Landry is gone
4) Tyler is due and likely gone.
5) Lou is due. May or may not come back.
5 of 15 total players not resigned = 33% turnover.
3 of 15 not resigned is 20% turnover both of which amount to major change.
All of that constitutes "major" change in someones perspective.
No matter what the "hue and cry says"
1) Casey will be back to win or leave
2) Lowry / Derozan will be the cornerstones.
3) JV is still too valuable as a big man in a 3 point league to give up on.
4) Bruno / Noreiga will still be here hopefully in more targeted development.
---
[B]Major change[/B][U] to me[/U] would suggest:
a) that Tross will be moved and
b) > 1 veteran Free Agent of "all-star caliber" are attracted to to this team
I am not frankly hopeful this is the case.
But I would have wanted to see this type of move "regardless" of whether the Raptors had won the first round, lost the first round, or as the case was get swept in the first round.
[QUOTE=Dr.Funk]Holy over-reaction batman![/QUOTE]
[B]Totally agree[/B]
49 wins isn't a fluke, we have a good team. But its been obvious to most fans what our flaws we're, and they came back to bite us in the Playoffs. A good backup Center, and upgrade at SF and some Veteran leadership.
I like Dwayne Casey as a coach and hope he stays. The Raps have always had a problem hiring "A" list coachs outside of Lenny. So, im thinking Casey is as good as it can get for us.
Because we got swept like that attracting good FA will be even harder.
This particular FA class isn't that strong, but there are some role players that intrigue me. I don't know if Toronto will give out a max to any of them, but I definitely want upgrades at SF and PF. The rest of the positions are fine at the moment.
[QUOTE=Jballer]:cheers:
Where were all these posts in November ??? Where was all this wisdom when they were 21 - 5 ??
LMAO.
This team is average.
The over under preseason was 47 in a weak eastern conference.
In the past two seasons they have won nearly 100 games in the regular season and 3 wins 8 losses in the post season.
They have respectable core players in Lowry / Derozan who are "perhaps" All Star caliber with some deficiencies. They have a deep (reasonably) bench with a number of solid rotation players and a couple of good prospects (Bruno / Noreiga).
They have an experienced NBA coach who has approximately 3 years experience and a nearly 500 record with at least one championship under his belt as an assistant coach.
They have approximately $17 million of available cap space BEFORE the cap is readjusted upwards for the TV deal.
They have 3 draft picks in next 2 years and will host the all star game highlighting the quality of living in Toronto.
You know what ??? Nothing is bad. Its all promising for the future.
Lord knows I might have been Mr Negative after drafting Bruno but there are so many opportunities for this franchise for the next 5 years [U]we never had before.[/U]
1) Improve the quality of coaching through growth and or hiring additional experience to supplement Casey
2) Get better players with the cap flexability
3) Draft and keep the next 3 first rounders. 1 ~ at least will turn out to be a quality player.
4) Get Bruno's development on track. Buy a D league franchise with Minnesota and get our guys minutes.
5) With the young "position deep" average roster we have now... and cap space... take a run at a really high impact player. See if we can get a legitimate 100% All Star to join while keeping our draft picks. If you get close to being a legitimate threat for the big prize then go out and spend over the cap / tax threshold and get the 2nd all-star you need to make a run for the ring.[/QUOTE]
If I recall correctly people were cautiously optimistic heading into the new year and that was when we actually played defense and had heart. Pretty sure most people who saw the Raps in 2015 knew that this team was going absolutely no where.
I don't understand your points because they are flawed. You want to change Casey's coaching staff to better cover his flaws when he does absolutely nothing for the team. What does he bring to the raptors? What is our identity? His offense is a straight up copy of Scott Brook's offense without the personnel. His defense is nonexistent. None of our younger players have developed to the level that we would want them to.
You propose that we upgrade our coaching staff, sign good players, and draft quality players from the draft but none of those will be a reality with the system that we have in place.
[QUOTE=Sakkreth]Because we got swept like that attracting good FA will be even harder.[/QUOTE]
$$$$$$
Depends I think on above ?
[QUOTE=Prodigy]
You propose that we upgrade our coaching staff, sign good players, and draft quality players from the draft but none of those will be a reality with the system that we have in place.[/QUOTE]
---
Why is upgrading our (1) coaching staff, (2) signing good players and (3)draft all impossible with the system we have in place ??
Did I miss the news conference??
(1) Coaching staff
If DCasey and Masai can find an additional d-fence specialist coach, agree, and add him to the staff then do it. No limit on number of coaches or assistants in NBA rules that I know of. No salary cap on special consultants (i.e WayneE few years back). Casey seems to be open to evaluation & self evaluation... at least publicly. Hire a guy to bring a few new thoughts to the management table. Even if he is a special consultant and not a bench coach you can improve.
(2) FA
Umm we have cap space with players leaving. Further we have more money up to the luxury tax. Further we could actually pay into the luxury tax though I doubt MLSE will do this. So again what prevents us from signing Milsap or Monroe or some other ideal player ? Nothing. If we offer enough money they will come.
I doubt Masai will sign a big "bad" Melo type deal ; I don't think there are FA demanding to play in TO... but there is talent to be had.
I don't rule out Euroballers either. Jorge Garabosa came to TO 5 years ago and made an important impact for a couple seasons. I am sure there the right pieces between NBA FA, and Euroball.
(3) Draft
Well we have roughly 20/5/20 1st rounders in the next 2 years. Either we expect excellence from our scouts or we package them for the best "cant miss guy we can find".
Given that we have 3 years left on Lowry / 2 years left on Derozan / Patterson ~ and QOffers due on Val (and maybe Tross) ~ I would assume we need to stock the barrel eventually.
[U]I guess I do not understand why you find this Raptors franchise "trapped" in mediocrity when :[/U]
~ 90 + wins over 2 seasons
~ 2 playoff appearances albeit only 3 wins
~ Cap room
~ Under the Luxury so no cumulative penalties
~ contracts tiered to come due next year, season after, season after, season after unlike i.e. the Lakers who picked a "blow it up date"
None of this guarantees a championship. You have to survive injuries etc. You need some breaks. They players actually have to shoot and play d...
But i.e. the Celtics, 76ers, Lakers, Magic look in a lot worse shape in my opinion unless they magically rob other teams in one sided transactions.
[QUOTE=Jballer]---
Why is upgrading our (1) coaching staff, (2) signing good players and (3)draft all impossible with the system we have in place ??
Did I miss the news conference??
(1) Coaching staff
If DCasey and Masai can find an additional d-fence specialist coach, agree, and add him to the staff then do it. No limit on number of coaches or assistants in NBA rules that I know of. No salary cap on special consultants (i.e WayneE few years back). Casey seems to be open to evaluation & self evaluation... at least publicly. Hire a guy to bring a few new thoughts to the management table. Even if he is a special consultant and not a bench coach you can improve.
(2) FA
Umm we have cap space with players leaving. Further we have more money up to the luxury tax. Further we could actually pay into the luxury tax though I doubt MLSE will do this. So again what prevents us from signing Milsap or Monroe or some other ideal player ? Nothing. If we offer enough money they will come.
I doubt Masai will sign a big "bad" Melo type deal ; I don't think there are FA demanding to play in TO... but there is talent to be had.
I don't rule out Euroballers either. Jorge Garabosa came to TO 5 years ago and made an important impact for a couple seasons. I am sure there the right pieces between NBA FA, and Euroball.
(3) Draft
Well we have roughly 20/5/20 1st rounders in the next 2 years. Either we expect excellence from our scouts or we package them for the best "cant miss guy we can find".
Given that we have 3 years left on Lowry / 2 years left on Derozan / Patterson ~ and QOffers due on Val (and maybe Tross) ~ I would assume we need to stock the barrel eventually.
[U]I guess I do not understand why you find this Raptors franchise "trapped" in mediocrity when :[/U]
~ 90 + wins over 2 seasons
~ 2 playoff appearances albeit only 3 wins
~ Cap room
~ Under the Luxury so no cumulative penalties
~ contracts tiered to come due next year, season after, season after, season after unlike i.e. the Lakers who picked a "blow it up date"
None of this guarantees a championship. You have to survive injuries etc. You need some breaks. They players actually have to shoot and play d...
But i.e. the Celtics, 76ers, Lakers, Magic look in a lot worse shape in my opinion unless they magically rob other teams in one sided transactions.[/QUOTE]
1) Casey was the defensive coordinator for the Mavs team. Getting a coach to come teach defense is the equivalent of telling him that he has no idea what he's doing (which is true). Furthermore, I'm not exactly sure how the assistants are chosen but I'm assuming that they are his guys.
2) Nobody wants to play here if they are given the option of a major city in the states. Least of all a legit all star calibre player, which is what we need. Don't say that we don't because Derozan is a 6th man on a true contending team and who knows how Lowry's health will hold up. Small pieces like Garbs won't be the difference maker in us making the first round and even sniffing the ECF.
3) Our draft picks will consistently be out of the lottery and even if we were to chance upon a gem in the draft I have major reservations on the coaching staff and how they "develop" our young players. Ross has made 0 improvement since his rookie year defensively and his offense is inconsistent at best. JV's development only comes from his time on the national team.
The biggest problem is our lame duck coaching staff. The East will continue to suck and we will continue to make the playoffs and lose in the first round if there are no major changes in the team's direction.
We got swept BY THE FRICKING WIZARDS. Maybe that hasn't fully settled in your mind yet or something.
I think the raps will let everyone walk this summer. I'd like to bring back chuck hays at the vets minimum and maybe handsbrough as insurance.
Bring in Tobias Harris, sign Cory Joseph, bring back Nando de Colo, Sign Ed Davis.
Trade Vazquez and Ross to Orlando in sign and trade for Harris. Trade first rounder to Denver for Gary Harris
lowry, cory Joseph de colo
derozen, Gary Harris de colo
Tobias Harris, JJ, Bruno/Daniels
Patterson, Ed Davis,
Val, bebe/handsbrough, hays
Fire Casey and bring in either udoko or messini from the spurs.
I like that roster. Plays better defence. no gunners off the bench. Harris, joseph, JJ, Davis and Bebe all play defence. Probably one of the starters would have to play with the second unit. Somebody would need to be the go to scorer with that unit.
DeMar and Tobias would be the 2nd coming of DeMar and Rudy.
We need a legit 3&D player at that SF position. Pat starting isn't a bad idea, just not long term. This is where I would love for the Raps to sign starting stretch PF like Millsap. But considering how bad they played this post season, I'm not sure how many FA's will be interested. It really hurt Masai's pitch at signing some quality players.
I don't mind bringing back guys like De Colo and Ed, but if there's one guy I would mind seeing back again, it's Amir. It's just his ankles are so questionable and he really shouldn't be the long term starter at PF anymore. Slide him perhaps to back up C. Lou would be fetched by someone who wants gunner, but if Masai I can't sign anyone of quality, he'll be brought back.
[QUOTE=Prodigy]
The biggest problem is our lame duck coaching staff. The East will continue to suck and we will continue to make the playoffs and lose in the first round if there are no major changes in the team's direction.
We got swept BY THE FRICKING WIZARDS. Maybe that hasn't fully settled in your mind yet or something.[/QUOTE]
1,2, 3 ~ Debatable points fair enough.
I disagree with your points but we've established that.:cheers:
The biggest issue I think you are [U]over stating[/U] is this (above).
My POV is it is inane to state this team has "no future" because the "teams direction" is locked in.
Frankly I don't care we got swept by the Wizards this season. Not if we have draft picks, cap space, tiered "reasonable" contracts.
In fact that [U]exactly means[/U] we can change direction. That is the whole point. That is what everyone seems to be missing.
Previous iterations of this team didn't had that option. Previous GMs wasted cap space, over gambled on Rudy Gay, Hakim O, Chris Bosh staying, shoring up with Jalen R.
Change in direction may or may not come from coaching changes but what is out there that is better ?? Who ?
Everyone says fire the coach, trade the players, blow it up. For who ???
Blow it up has worked how well for Philly ? Boston ? Orlando ? For every blow it up success like Oklahoma there are a half dozen "lost way failures".
I like the potential we have if not thrilled with the most recent result.
I'm not losing track of direction, infact Masai said that he didn't believe in this team and said they would be major change regardless of playoff result.
I just don't want Casey back if someone like Kyle and even Masai don't like his coaching methods. What is point of hiring defensive assistants when your head coach is supposed to be a defensive minded one ? What does Casey bring to the table ? The fact he's a nice guy and lets his players do whatever they want on offense ?
And if we bring Casey back, 1 of the main 3 core pieces (Kyle, DeMar, and Jonas) are probably on the move. I've heard of Kyle and DeMar both being moved, but it's speculation. Jonas (and Bruno to an extent) are being kept becausethey are young and have potential biling. I know most of the role players aren't coming back or only 1 may. Hopefully thatcap Iis going to net back a good starter or 2, then fill the rest of the bench with pass first, defensive minded players.
Another reason Casey coming back isn't a good idea is that he isn't even giving the other 2 younger talents a chance. Ross can blow assignments and air ball everything, but Jonas can't even crank over 27+ minutes and Bruno and Nogueira see minimum garbage time. That's poor management for the future.
Replace Casey with someone like Mike Malone, Alvin Gentry (if available), or even Scott Brooks. At least Brooks will play younger talent. Also, that Spurs assistant that might get possibly hired would be a great hire too if he wants to try run Pop's system.
f[COLOR="Black"]u[/COLOR]cking hate drake.
[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I'm not losing track of direction, infact Masai said that he didn't believe in this team and said they would be major change regardless of playoff result.
I just don't want Casey back if someone like Kyle and even Masai don't like his coaching methods. What is point of hiring defensive assistants when your head coach is supposed to be a defensive minded one ? What does Casey bring to the table ? The fact he's a nice guy and lets his players do whatever they want on offense ?
And if we bring Casey back, 1 of the main 3 core pieces (Kyle, DeMar, and Jonas) are probably on the move. I've heard of Kyle and DeMar both being moved, but it's speculation. Jonas (and Bruno to an extent) are being kept becausethey are young and have potential biling. I know most of the role players aren't coming back or only 1 may. Hopefully thatcap Iis going to net back a good starter or 2, then fill the rest of the bench with pass first, defensive minded players.
Another reason Casey coming back isn't a good idea is that he isn't even giving the other 2 younger talents a chance. Ross can blow assignments and air ball everything, but Jonas can't even crank over 27+ minutes and Bruno and Nogueira see minimum garbage time. That's poor management for the future.
Replace Casey with someone like Mike Malone, Alvin Gentry (if available), or even Scott Brooks. At least Brooks will play younger talent. Also, that Spurs assistant that might get possibly hired would be a great hire too if he wants to try run Pop's system.[/QUOTE]
Too little too late, we will have to see how next season will turn out with Casey as head coach. Might be like a wasted year...
[QUOTE=BoogieWoogieMan]Casey gots to go...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ni6Q6xC.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
.... But if casey goes, does that mean the rock has to go too?
[IMG]http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/dwanecaseypoundtherock.jpg[/IMG]