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This was the excuse Paxson and Forman were looking for to fire Thibs. Who do you think they'll replace him with? Scott Brooks?
Also, I think we'll see a different roster at least when it comes to the bench. I think Taj, Hinrich, Brooks are all gone. I think the only change made to the starting lineup will be Dunleavy leaving.
Noah, Butler, Rose, Mirotic, Snell and McDermott will be back.
[QUOTE=Upgrayedd]This was the excuse Paxson and Forman were looking for to fire Thibs. Who do you think they'll replace him with? Scott Brooks?
Also, I think we'll see a different roster at least when it comes to the bench. I think Taj, Hinrich, Brooks are all gone. I think the only change made to the starting lineup will be Dunleavy leaving.[/QUOTE]
Brooks is not a bad choice but he is not my top choice. Between him and an inexperienced college coach, then I'll pick Scott.
[QUOTE=Upgrayedd]This was the excuse Paxson and Forman were looking for to fire Thibs. Who do you think they'll replace him with? Scott Brooks?
Also, I think we'll see a different roster at least when it comes to the bench. I think Taj, Hinrich, Brooks are all gone. I think the only change made to the starting lineup will be Dunleavy leaving.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Upgrayedd]This team quit on the fans. It was pathetic. I'd be open to trading anyone for the right deal. Obviously I'd like to see Rose continue to return to MVP form and Butler stick around. But I'd be open to trading Noah and anyone else not named Butler or Rose or Gasol.[/QUOTE]
First of all, one thread is all we need for all of our woes right now.
I am not down with blaming all of the Bulls problems on Coach Thibs. If you want to talk about starters playing heavy minutes, I have some concerns about that too. If you want to call him a defensive genius but consider him to be weak on offense, I am open to that discussion.
There is no way that we can say that this guy had a truly fair shot with all of the injuries the Bulls have had the last few seasons. I don't blame Thibs for the body language of the players last night and the woeful effort given by 98% of them. That is all on them.
I have a gut feeling that Coach Thibs is gone no matter what we say or how well we say it on any forum. This is the era of firing coaches with winning records even before a season is finished. We are a society that trades away people in human relationships like we are upgrading for the newest phone. It's lame. So of course good coaches get fired. :rolleyes:
As far as the players and who can be traded? Don't kid yourself. We don't have ANY untouchable players. The Bulls are in a weird situation where they have their best player in Butler, and a most popular and loved player in Rose. Derrick is the only one that can truly know that he is staying unless he says he wants out. No one else should feel truly safe.
I wouldn't trade ANYONE of these guys just because I am upset and pissed off right now. I would however trade ANYBODY on this team for the right players going forward. Jimmy could be a sign and trade deal for the right player. Most of us love Noah, but this isn't the Spurs where management waits for him to get healthy and return to form. There is no loyalty in this organization (with the Rose exception ) and the players should feel the pressure as much as Thibs.
This season was a huge disappointment and game 6 was horrible trash.
I'm pissed off right now so take this post with a grain of salt.
I don't mind losing, but I deplore losing like that. Changes do need to be made.
It is obvious at this point that Thibs has lost this team. I love him to death but it's time to move on. I have no idea who could possibly fill those shoes, but it needs to happen.
As far as I'm concerned, everyone but Rose and Butler are expendable. They've both shown they are game changers. I love Noah on this team more than anyone else and I do think he will be much better next year, but if we get value for him now then I can see FO pulling the trigger. Taj has been a great role player and we may get value for him as well. I may even think of it as doing him a favor right now. Mirotic was a disappointment in a huge game 4 (turning point of this series, I knew the series was over when we didn't lead the game by 20 at the start of the 4th quarter) but I do think he's valuable down the line.
Taj should not be traded -- his contract is a steal considering his abilities and temperment.
Noah should not be traded -- one of the best defensive players in the league, and arguably the best passing center, as well.
Let's not live so fully in the moment, and look at other factors, and remember what these guys can be.
Our team needs to focus on offensive versatility and shooting.
Starting lineup NEEDS to be Rose, Butler, Doug, Gasol/Mirotic, Noah/Gasol.
I've been saying now, for years, that the Bulls need to embrace shooting and the three ball.
Gasol was huge for us this year, but he's getting old, and he blocks Mirotic. I say talk to Gasol and have him embrace the "6th man of the year" role, or trade him for size/depth/athleticism. Something like Hickson and Foye for Gasol.
Rose/Brooks
Butler/Foye
McDermott/Snell
Mirotic/Gibson
Noah/Hickson
More shooting, more playmaking, enough defensive players to be good enough... if Rose can rekindle his drive and kick game to open up those shooters, and if we can utilize Mirotic properly, then that team can be pretty solid.
I think only Taj might be traded. He's a luxury at this point, on a great contract that a lot of teams would kill for. He can probably start on no less than 20 teams in the league and play well in that role.
I hope Dunleavy comes back, but he may be priced out. Wouldn't mind Brooks coming back, but yeah he's under the Dunleavy category. I think under a coach that isn't Thibs Kirk could still be utilized properly for the 10-15 he can play sometimes, if Thibs is back I kinda hope Kirk retires:lol I love the guy, but Thibs just completely misused/overused him against the Cavs.
If Thibs is gone hopefully we get Alvin Gentry.
[QUOTE=Rose]I think only Taj might be traded. He's a luxury at this point, on a great contract that a lot of teams would kill for. He can probably start on no less than 20 teams in the league and play well in that role.
I hope Dunleavy comes back, but he may be priced out. Wouldn't mind Brooks coming back, but yeah he's under the Dunleavy category. I think under a coach that isn't Thibs Kirk could still be utilized properly for the 10-15 he can play sometimes, if Thibs is back I kinda hope Kirk retires:lol I love the guy, but Thibs just completely misused/overused him against the Cavs.
If Thibs is gone[U][B] hopefully we get Alvin Gentry[/B][/U].[/QUOTE]
Gentry inherited the Suns team that was stacked in offense, thanks to D'Antoni. Fine tuned the defense and took that team to WCF.
Career record is 47.5%
take away that "magical year", and he only had TWO winning seasons out of 11 times he coached.
Im not saying he is a bad coach but are you telling me you are going to "SETTLE" on this guy?:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=tamaraw08]Gentry inherited the Suns team that was stacked in offense, thanks to D'Antoni. Fine tuned the defense and took that team to WCF.
Career record is 47.5%
take away that "magical year", and he only had TWO winning seasons out of 11 times he coached.
Im not saying he is a bad coach but are you telling me you are going to "SETTLE" on this guy?:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure I see a better candidate right now.
-D'antoni? No thanks I don't want to see him run Rose and Noah into the ground like he did Amare and Kobe's knees.
-Hoiberg? An unproven college coach? Eh.
-Brooks? No thanks. I don't want to watch Thibs-lite.
So...? Ron Adams? I HIGHLY doubt he's coming back. Mike Malone? Eh. JVG isn't coming to Chicago after one of his favorite coaches got canned and he knows the relationship between the FO and Thibs, plus with Vinny.
that means ...who?
Disappointing season for sure. This team did not meet expectations this year for sure.
I would normally say this team didn't have the time to gel because of injuries and guys in and out of the lineup and so on and so forth, but i'm tired of that excuse.
No reason why we shouldn't have gotten past the Cavs and then certainly get past the Hawks. Absolutely no reason. The Cavs were more banged up than we were and we didn't take advantage. This was our best shot to get past a Lebron led team and we blew it. Their third best player in Kevin Love was injured and out for the whole series. Their second best player Kyrie Irving played hurt and was obviously a shell of his normal self. JR Smith one of their better playmakers and scorers was suspended for the first two games and we STILL lost in 6 games.
That game 6 performance in Chicago was embarrassing. An elimination game at home and that's the best performance? Unacceptable.
That game alone and expectations not being met is reasons for change.
Thibs is a great defensive mind, but we can't ignore his faults anymore.
Like Noah said earlier this year guys like Noah, Butler and Rose don't play hard because of a coach. What they need is a fresh perspective. A guy that's going to come in and expand how we play the game. A guy that's going to be more open to a diverse way to go about the game. Someone who will put our guys in a better position to succeed and utilize their strengths.
Going into the Cleveland series one of the biggest advantages we had was our bench against theirs and our bench blew it. Part of it is because they didn't show up and part of it is because Thibs didn't give them the vote of confidence and the time to succeed. There's no way in hell Hinrich should be getting playing time over Snell, but Hinrich got a lot of floor time doing nothing while Snell was buried on the bench. Snell is a better shooter, a better defender, a better slasher and way more athletic.
A guy like Mirotic was huge for us during the season and then Thibs barely plays him in the playoffs. Come on. Mirotic didn't play well in limited minutes because his confidence and rhythm was stripped from him by his coach.
Thibs needs to go. I hope the team stays pretty much the same tho.
Would just like for Snell and McDermott to get more playing time.
Rose and Butler are the second best backcourt in the league.
Noah needs to get healthy.
[QUOTE=ljsbb27]Disappointing season for sure. This team did not meet expectations this year for sure.
I would normally say this team didn't have the time to gel because of injuries and guys in and out of the lineup and so on and so forth, but i'm tired of that excuse.
No reason why we shouldn't have gotten past the Cavs and then certainly get past the Hawks. Absolutely no reason. The Cavs were more banged up than we were and we didn't take advantage. This was our best shot to get past a Lebron led team and we blew it. Their third best player in Kevin Love was injured and out for the whole series. Their second best player Kyrie Irving played hurt and was obviously a shell of his normal self. JR Smith one of their better playmakers and scorers was suspended for the first two games and we STILL lost in 6 games.
That game 6 performance in Chicago was embarrassing. An elimination game at home and that's the best performance? Unacceptable.
That game alone and expectations not being met is reasons for change.
Thibs is a great defensive mind, but we can't ignore his faults anymore.
Like Noah said earlier this year guys like Noah, Butler and Rose don't play hard because of a coach. What they need is a fresh perspective. A guy that's going to come in and expand how we play the game. A guy that's going to be more open to a diverse way to go about the game. Someone who will put our guys in a better position to succeed and utilize their strengths.
Going into the Cleveland series one of the biggest advantages we had was our bench against theirs and our bench blew it. Part of it is because they didn't show up and part of it is because Thibs didn't give them the vote of confidence and the time to succeed. There's no way in hell Hinrich should be getting playing time over Snell, but Hinrich got a lot of floor time doing nothing while Snell was buried on the bench. Snell is a better shooter, a better defender, a better slasher and way more athletic.
A guy like Mirotic was huge for us during the season and then Thibs barely plays him in the playoffs. Come on. Mirotic didn't play well in limited minutes because his confidence and rhythm was stripped from him by his coach.
Thibs needs to go. I hope the team stays pretty much the same tho.
Would just like for Snell and McDermott to get more playing time.
[B]Rose and Butler are the second best backcourt in the league. [/B]
Noah needs to get healthy.[/QUOTE]
Great post overall.
Rose and Butler the 2nd best backcourt duo though? Better than Wall and Beal? Better than the splash brothers? I think they [B]might [/B]be top 5 if they are both perfectly healthy and 100% committed to playing hard.
I just can't heap much praise on any of these guys after watching that series against the Cavs. I think it should be a long time before we start talking about how awesome our players are, or thinking we are contenders for a championship.
I think it's time to fly under the radar for a while with our Bulls.
I am just sitting here blown away by game 6. Seriously.... who can we add to this team to get moving away from the treadmill and back to the road?
[QUOTE=KelticForce1349]Great post overall.
Rose and Butler the 2nd best backcourt duo though? Better than Wall and Beal? Better than the splash brothers? I think they [B]might [/B]be top 5 if they are both perfectly healthy and 100% committed to playing hard.
I just can't heap much praise on any of these guys after watching that series against the Cavs. I think it should be a long time before we start talking about how awesome our players are, or thinking we are contenders for a championship.
I think it's time to fly under the radar for a while with our Bulls.
I am just sitting here blown away by game 6. Seriously.... who can we add to this team to get moving away from the treadmill and back to the road?[/QUOTE]. Only Curry and Thompson are better. They are first we are second. DRose and Jimmy Butler are better than Wall and Beal. And any other backcourt in the league.
[QUOTE=ljsbb27]. Only Curry and Thompson are better. They are first we are second. DRose and Jimmy Butler are better than Wall and Beal. And any other backcourt in the league.[/QUOTE]
Hmm. Well, for me personally that is going to be very difficult to believe for a while. Again, if both guys are completely healthy and extremely motivated to win then it could be true. Will Derrick Rose ever be fully healthy again? How long will his knees stay healthy?
Does everyone still want or expect a "proven" coach for this Bulls team? I don't think the Bulls are going to be contenders for several years unless some trade happens this summer. Can I throw out a name that will shock most of you for our next possible coach?
I am talking starting from the ground up again like the Del Negro days. ready? How about Chris Webber?
I think Webber wants to go into management/ownership, not coaching. He's part of a group wanting to buy the Hawks.
1) LOL at Rose/Butler being better than Wall/Beal. I know the caveat "if fully healthy" was brought up, but I can't even entertain that until it's proven. At this point, we need to assume Rose is hurt.
2) Why wouldn't this team contend? Unless we trade a major piece, we're still in "win now" mode.
3) As long as we're in "win now" mode, we need a coach to reflect that. Who? Mike Malone? Monty Williams? Alvin Gentry? I don't know. I don't follow coaching ranks. At all.
4) I think trading Taj would be a bad move, unless we get legit value for him. His contract is incredible. Gasol is the one to trade, if we trade someone. Opens up more time for Mirotic.
5) I honestly think the only change we "need" is trading Thibs for a pick. Some team would bite on that.
[QUOTE=Rose]I think Webber wants to go into management/ownership, not coaching. He's part of a group wanting to buy the Hawks.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info. Bummer. I really his analysis of what's happening on the court as he calls games or works (not nearly enough) with Kenny and EJ in the studio.
[QUOTE=kshutts1]1) LOL at Rose/Butler being better than Wall/Beal. I know the caveat "if fully healthy" was brought up, but I can't even entertain that until it's proven. At this point, we need to assume Rose is hurt.
2) [B]Why wouldn't this team contend? Unless we trade a major piece, we're still in "win now" mode.
[/B]
3) As long as we're in "win now" mode, we need a coach to reflect that. Who? Mike Malone? Monty Williams? Alvin Gentry? I don't know. I don't follow coaching ranks. At all.
4) I think trading Taj would be a bad move, unless we get legit value for him. His contract is incredible. Gasol is the one to trade, if we trade someone. Opens up more time for Mirotic.
5) I honestly think the only change we "need" is trading Thibs for a pick. Some team would bite on that.[/QUOTE]
I know we WANT to win now, but I can't believe we are in a win-now mode after watching this recent playoff run. This team lost to an injury depleted Cavs, with an important piece suspended for two games and without Lebron playing amazing in every game. That huge shot that derrick hit to win game 3 could have easily missed and the Bulls probably would have lost the series 4 to 1.
let's not forget that they also allowed the Bucks to win two games before digging in.
Why did this team implode in this playoffs? There is no way that just changing coaches will fix this. Some of these guys must go and at least one key player must be added.
[QUOTE=KelticForce1349]I know we WANT to win now, but I can't believe we are in a win-now mode after watching this recent playoff run. This team lost to an injury depleted Cavs, with an important piece suspended for two games and without Lebron playing amazing in every game. That huge shot that derrick hit to win game 3 could have easily missed and the Bulls probably would have lost the series 4 to 1.
let's not forget that they also allowed the Bucks to win two games before digging in.
Why did this team implode in this playoffs? There is no way that just changing coaches will fix this. Some of these guys must go and at least one key player must be added.[/QUOTE]
I was not fortunate enough to be able to watch many Bulls games, but when I was, I came away thinking that something was seriously missing. Noah and Gibson were not the same. They didn't have the same energy or intensity. Our team defense, as a whole, fell off. And then not playing hard in the playoffs. That sounds like they're all directly attributed to the coach not properly motivating players. Or everyone was playing hurt.
Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on coaching, but that seemed to be the biggest issue when I watched.
[QUOTE=Rose]I'm not sure I see a better candidate right now.
-D'antoni? No thanks I don't want to see him run Rose and Noah into the ground like he did Amare and Kobe's knees.
-Hoiberg? An unproven college coach? Eh.
-Brooks? No thanks. I don't want to watch Thibs-lite.
So...? Ron Adams? I HIGHLY doubt he's coming back. Mike Malone? Eh. JVG isn't coming to Chicago after one of his favorite coaches got canned and he knows the relationship between the FO and Thibs, plus with Vinny.
that means ...who?[/QUOTE]
Mike Malone, omg I forgot about this guy, what is your complaint about him? He did great at Sacramento and was the MAIN reason Mike Brown looked Good in Cleveland, ever since they parted ways, Brown was exposed where ever he went. But my pick is Doug Collins, and I don't think Brooks is Thibs lite. The guy is good enough IMO
[QUOTE=tamaraw08]Mike Malone, omg I forgot about this guy, what is your complaint about him? He did great at Sacramento and was the MAIN reason Mike Brown looked Good in Cleveland, ever since they parted ways, Brown was exposed where ever he went. But my pick is Doug Collins, and I don't think Brooks is Thibs lite. The guy is good enough IMO[/QUOTE]
My complaint about him is that teams aren't exactly lining up to get him. Plus there's really not a track record. I'd be kind of apathetic if we got him. I wouldn't mind Doug Collins, but I don't think he'd coach again. He got approached for the job before Thibs and decided not to take it because him and Jerry are such good friends. Which is fine.
Brooks hallmarks: good defense, godawful offense. Sounds like Thibs-lite. Whereas Thibs is a defensive mastermind, Scott is just good at it. Which is nothing to complain about, but why downgrade to that? Offensively how many times have people everywhere berated him because he can't draw up offensive sets despite having 2 of the 5? 6? best offensive players in the league. He kept using Perkins (Hinrich for Thibs) despite him being maybe not horrible, but definitely not starter or big minutes quality. He's not bad per se, but I'd much rather see a guy like Gentry or Hoiberg who are considered to be good offensive coaches.
[QUOTE=kshutts1]I was not fortunate enough to be able to watch many Bulls games, but when I was, I came away thinking that something was seriously missing. Noah and Gibson were not the same. They didn't have the same energy or intensity. Our team defense, as a whole, fell off. And then not playing hard in the playoffs. That sounds like they're all directly attributed to the coach not properly motivating players. Or everyone was playing hurt.
Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on coaching, but that seemed to be the biggest issue when I watched.[/QUOTE]
No worries. We are all upset right now and there is plenty of blame to go around from Thibs to the last guy on the bench. This is honestly the most disappointed I have been in the Bulls since I became a fan back in 1994.
:cheers:
I kinda feel like we quit on thibs I'm gonna miss him.
[QUOTE=Showtime2001]I kinda feel like we quit on thibs I'm gonna miss him.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it bothers me a lot to be honest. I don't feel like he ever got a truly fair shake due to injuries and management letting certain players move on. The roster hasn't been consistent and we had less than optimal line-ups in many situations.
I really don't see 98% of the coaches out there keeping this team winning the way Thibs does. I feel like we would have missed the playoffs at least once under a different coach. For me personally, I do believe (as does Thibs) that defense wins championships. Shots don't always go in from even the most talented players. The NBA continues to become more about defense and I still feel that Thibs is far ahead of the pack.
We need more two-way players for Thibs to trust and to keep certain players minutes down. We can't have multiple Bogans or Brewer guys that defend but can't score to save their life. We can't have guys like Boozer defending the paint. Derricks defense didn't impress me much. I appreciate Jimmy for taking on Lebron, but wouldn't things have been much better if we had someone at SF that could defend that position?
Finding more guys that can score and defend are the job of Gar and Pax.
[QUOTE=Rose]My complaint about him is that teams aren't exactly lining up to get him. Plus there's really not a track record. I'd be kind of apathetic if we got him. I wouldn't mind Doug Collins, but I don't think he'd coach again. He got approached for the job before Thibs and decided not to take it because him and Jerry are such good friends. Which is fine.
Brooks hallmarks: good defense, godawful offense. Sounds like Thibs-lite. Whereas Thibs is a defensive mastermind, Scott is just good at it. Which is nothing to complain about, but why downgrade to that? Offensively how many times have people everywhere berated him because he can't draw up offensive sets despite having 2 of the 5? 6? best offensive players in the league. He kept using Perkins (Hinrich for Thibs) despite him being maybe not horrible, but definitely not starter or big minutes quality. He's not bad per se, but I'd much rather see a guy like Gentry or Hoiberg who are considered to be good offensive coaches.[/QUOTE]
Let me just say again that Gentry FAILED to have winning seasons, 8 out of 12times he coached. The one time he did great was in Phoenix with Nash was elite(far more assists/gm than WEstbrook with Brooks) with Hill and a few good offensive players.
IMO, the biggest Brooks critics are the Durant and/or WEstbrook worshippers who fail to acknowledge that the most of their teammates were very limited esp Thabo and Perkins. Bear in mind 3-4 yrs ago, Adams was not playing yet so there were very few alternatives. Im not saying Scott is elite but if he was that bad, then OKC wouldn't have beaten the MIghty Spurs, being coached by the very best Popovich and his 3 HOF players. Heck if his weaknesses are glaring, then why retain him for a couple more years, :confusedshrug:
Its amazing tho that when they failed to beat Heat, very few would blame Harden from his sudden disappearance...NOw it's bec of Brooks' short comings, forget the time when WEstbrook got injured and missed important games.
It seems like a lot of people think Thibs is gone but that the team should remain the same. If this team remains the same you will get the same result. Yes, Thibs has his flaws as does everyone within the bulls organization and the players. The main problem on this team is no player on the court has that "dog" in them.
Evaluation of each player and whether they should stay or go:
[B]Rose [/B]- Great talent, inconsistent this year because of injuries and mental hurdles. He needs to be the alpha dog on this team if they plan on making it out of the second round. STAY
[B]Jimmy Butler[/B]- Good two way player but becoming overrated by the day. He is IMO a third scoring option on a Championship team. I would trade him for the right player such as Demarcus Cousins who the Kings reportedly may be shopping around
[B]Dunleavy[/B]- Mr. Fundamental, I want him to stick around as he still has a lot left but may be better served off the bench. STAY
[B]Gasol[/B]- Played very well this year. Not as much of an inside presence as we need but can still score and solid with weak side blocks. STAY
[B]Noah[/B]- I love Noah but he has to go. He is an offensive liability, not very athletic and him running offense at the top of the key is a gimmick. Having a big man like him that can pass that far away from the basket is a luxury not a mandatory need. HE GONE
[B]Brooks[/B]- Very solid but did not get much playing time in the postseason. Bring him back for the vets minimum. STAY
[B]Hinrich[/B]- Hot garbage but he has a player option for $2.8 mill so we dont really have a choice unless the sixers take him on lol. I just hope he becomes like a player coach. STAY
[B]Tony Snell[/B]- Needs to work with Butler in the offseason and get more confidence. He has some handles and can shoot. He needs to Start next year as the SG and slide butler back to SF. STAY
[B]McDermott[/B]- He just needs playing time, enough said. STAY
[B]Mirotic[/B] Played well at times and not so well at other times. He needs more consistency and Bulls need to figure out if he is a 3 or a 4. STAY
[B]TAJ[/B]- Very inconsistent but can punish teams inside at times Because of his contract I would keep him unless we can include him in a trade for a star. STAY
Overall I hope the team can bring in an inside post presence with a trade which I know is tough to do. Also, in the draft I would like to see either a PG or defensive big like a Robert Upshaw.
[QUOTE=drwax26]
Evaluation of each player and whether they should stay or go:
[B]Rose [/B]- Great talent, inconsistent this year because of injuries and mental hurdles. He needs to be the alpha dog on this team if they plan on making it out of the second round. STAY
[B]Jimmy Butler[/B]- Good two way player but becoming overrated by the day. He is IMO a third scoring option on a Championship team. I would trade him for the right player such as Demarcus Cousins who the Kings reportedly may be shopping around
[B]Dunleavy[/B]- Mr. Fundamental, I want him to stick around as he still has a lot left but may be better served off the bench. STAY
[B]Gasol[/B]- Played very well this year. Not as much of an inside presence as we need but can still score and solid with weak side blocks. STAY
[B]Noah[/B]- I love Noah but he has to go. He is an offensive liability, not very athletic and him running offense at the top of the key is a gimmick. Having a big man like him that can pass that far away from the basket is a luxury not a mandatory need. HE GONE
[B]Brooks[/B]- Very solid but did not get much playing time in the postseason. Bring him back for the vets minimum. STAY
[B]Hinrich[/B]- Hot garbage but he has a player option for $2.8 mill so we dont really have a choice unless the sixers take him on lol. I just hope he becomes like a player coach. STAY
[B]Tony Snell[/B]- Needs to work with Butler in the offseason and get more confidence. He has some handles and can shoot. He needs to Start next year as the SG and slide butler back to SF. STAY
[B]McDermott[/B]- He just needs playing time, enough said. STAY
[B]Mirotic[/B] Played well at times and not so well at other times. He needs more consistency and Bulls need to figure out if he is a 3 or a 4. STAY
[B]TAJ[/B]- Very inconsistent but can punish teams inside at times Because of his contract I would keep him unless we can include him in a trade for a star. STAY
[/QUOTE]
Rose -- I'd like him to go, but we can't get anywhere near good value on him. So he has to stay.
Butler -- Depends on his contract situation. I don't think he's a max player, but I'd happily pay him 12-15m a year. If he can take that, I want him. We just need to understand his weaknesses.
Dunleavy -- Agree on his bench role. Keep him if he can do that. He's not ideal, but cost-effective.
Pau -- I love what he brings to the table, and he's on a great deal. I just think his trade value is higher than his actual Bulls value, which means he should be traded.
Noah -- He's not an offensive liability. He may have been misused, but that's a coaching issue. Dude stays.
Snell and McDermott -- Agree. Stay and give them opportunity.
Mirotic -- I was skeptical of him before this year, and now I'm a huge fan. He stays. He starts.
Taj -- Stays mostly because of his acceptance of a bench role, even though he's starter-good.
Hinrich -- trade him as an expirer
Brooks -- Don't care either way. I like him in a limited role, but he's not what the team needs.
[QUOTE=drwax26]It seems like a lot of people think Thibs is gone but that the team should remain the same. If this team remains the same you will get the same result. Yes, Thibs has his flaws as does everyone within the bulls organization and the players. The main problem on this team is no player on the court has that "dog" in them.
Evaluation of each player and whether they should stay or go:
[B]Rose [/B]- Great talent, inconsistent this year because of injuries and mental hurdles. He needs to be the alpha dog on this team if they plan on making it out of the second round. STAY
[B]Jimmy Butler[/B]- Good two way player but becoming overrated by the day. He is IMO a third scoring option on a Championship team. I would trade him for the right player such as Demarcus Cousins who the Kings reportedly may be shopping around
[B]Dunleavy[/B]- Mr. Fundamental, I want him to stick around as he still has a lot left but may be better served off the bench. STAY
[B]Gasol[/B]- Played very well this year. Not as much of an inside presence as we need but can still score and solid with weak side blocks. STAY
[B]Noah[/B]- I love Noah but he has to go. He is an offensive liability, not very athletic and him running offense at the top of the key is a gimmick. Having a big man like him that can pass that far away from the basket is a luxury not a mandatory need. HE GONE
[B]Brooks[/B]- Very solid but did not get much playing time in the postseason. Bring him back for the vets minimum. STAY
[B]Hinrich[/B]- Hot garbage but he has a player option for $2.8 mill so we dont really have a choice unless the sixers take him on lol. I just hope he becomes like a player coach. STAY
[B]Tony Snell[/B]- Needs to work with Butler in the offseason and get more confidence. He has some handles and can shoot. He needs to Start next year as the SG and slide butler back to SF. STAY
[B]McDermott[/B]- He just needs playing time, enough said. STAY
[B]Mirotic[/B] Played well at times and not so well at other times. He needs more consistency and Bulls need to figure out if he is a 3 or a 4. STAY
[B]TAJ[/B]- Very inconsistent but can punish teams inside at times Because of his contract I would keep him unless we can include him in a trade for a star. STAY
Overall I hope the team can bring in an inside post presence with a trade which I know is tough to do. Also, in the draft I would like to see either a PG or defensive big like a Robert Upshaw.[/QUOTE]
All very good points, well except for Brooks imo. So accurate about Noah that I don't think no GM in his right mind would trade for him. :(
Going back to Brooks, I think his lack of PG skills has been exposed, that I would rather have Mo Milliams or Jameer Nelson.
joakim noah is an offensive liability. its been apparent for years. Its absolutely necessary to have an offensive big coupled with a star PG. It would make the game that much easier for the back court. I like brook lopez.
jimmy butler is overrated, and does not play well with rose. the bulls are a better team with rose by him self and not sharing the offensive load with jimmy in the backcourt. what rose needs is an offensive front court. I know thats going to rustle some jimmies, but its already proven.
last but not least, we need a real forward.
Brooks gets too much hate for the Thunder's lack of offense.
I would not be surprised to see your management interviewing JVG soon.
[QUOTE=smoovegittar]I would not be surprised to see your management interviewing JVG soon.[/QUOTE]
What? LMAO! JVG has been a huge supporter of Thibs and he has pissed off Gar and Paxson a few times with his comments during games. JVG is probably one of the few people in Basketball that detests the Bulls organization and I actually like him. Sometimes I feel like I like him [B]for[/B] that, not in spite of it.
Well... for those who wanted Thibs sent packing, you can't cry anymore. The dude wasn't perfect; his stubbornness will likely go down as legendary in sports cliche chit chat. No one that ****!ng brilliant on the defensive side could be equal on the offensive side. That is like expecting Einstein to write like Shakespeare. :rolleyes:
Anyway...I refuse to believe that some new pu$$y coach is going to come in with this "make Basketball fun again" approach and win big with this same roster. A new coach might prove to be the right decision, but this roster can't remain stagnant.
We each have our favorites and our least favorite players on this team. Some of us fans need to have a sad summer and see a few of our favorites move on. We need a couple of departures, and couple of new faces for next season if this team is going to get into the finals.
[QUOTE=KelticForce1349]What? LMAO! JVG has been a huge supporter of Thibs and he has pissed off Gar and Paxson a few times with his comments during games. JVG is probably one of the few people in Basketball that detests the Bulls organization and I actually like him. Sometimes I feel like I like him [B]for[/B] that, not in spite of it.
Well... for those who wanted Thibs sent packing, you can't cry anymore. The dude wasn't perfect; his stubbornness will likely go down as legendary in sports cliche chit chat. No one that ****!ng brilliant on the defensive side could be equal on the offensive side. That is like expecting Einstein to write like Shakespeare. :rolleyes:
Anyway...I refuse to believe that some new pu$$y coach is going to come in with this "make Basketball fun again" approach and win big with this same roster. A new coach might prove to be the right decision, but this roster can't remain stagnant.
We each have our favorites and our least favorite players on this team. Some of us fans need to have a sad summer and see a few of our favorites move on. We need a couple of departures, and couple of new faces for next season if this team is going to get into the finals.[/QUOTE]
Just bec not a few like me, are ok parting with Thibs, doesn't mean that we didn't appreciate how good the guy is. I for one, would always be grateful on how he managed to lead this team to the playoffs, in spite of major injuries etc. Having said that, he made decisions that were pretty hard for me to understand. Over playing his main guys even when the outcome was settled, a concept that great coaches like Pops wouldn't adapt. Benching players who can really help esp in offense when the team was really struggling in that aspect (i.e. Dunleavy vs the Wizards last years playoffs) etc.
Anyway, I'm concerned about the rumor that MGT has decided to hire an inexperienced coach in Hoiberg. There is a long list of great college coaches who failed in the pros.
Leonard Hamilton, Tarkanian, Montgomery, Floyd, Lon Kruger, heck even Calipari all failed and Im pretty sure that there are more...:(
I was hoping they can focus on proven ones like Doug Collins, I love JVG but I know he hates the Bulls MGT bec of his affiliation with Thibs.
If they indeed hire Hoiberg, I think it will be stupid not to provide him with veteran and proven assistants.
Look look look.
Thibs should come back to where he belongs as the associate head coach of the Celtics.
[QUOTE=KelticForce1349]What? LMAO! JVG has been a huge supporter of Thibs and he has pissed off Gar and Paxson a few times with his comments during games. JVG is probably one of the few people in Basketball that detests the Bulls organization and I actually like him. Sometimes I feel like I like him [B]for[/B] that, not in spite of it.
Well... for those who wanted Thibs sent packing, you can't cry anymore. The dude wasn't perfect; his stubbornness will likely go down as legendary in sports cliche chit chat. No one that ****!ng brilliant on the defensive side could be equal on the offensive side. That is like expecting Einstein to write like Shakespeare. :rolleyes:
Anyway...I refuse to believe that some new pu$$y coach is going to come in with this "make Basketball fun again" approach and win big with this same roster. A new coach might prove to be the right decision, but this roster can't remain stagnant.
[B]We each have our favorites and our least favorite players on this team. Some of us fans need to have a sad summer and see a few of our favorites move on. We need a couple of departures, and couple of new faces for next season if this team is going to get into the finals.[/B][/QUOTE]
If this subforum wasn't dead I could see a lot of back and forth about how this is gonna go down/how it looks next year. Instead it'll probably just be Conan spamming because he's bored and had a random thought.
I like Hoiberg's offensive sets in college. He ran (for college anyway) a really high scoring, very efficient offense. McBuckets/Dunleavy/Butler should really shine if he implements that. Especially when Taj and Mirotic are the screen guys.
When Pau's out there...it won't work as well but yeah. I'm sad to see Thibs go, but I'm excited for the future.
[QUOTE=Rose][B]If this subforum wasn't dead I could see a lot of back and forth about how this is gonna go down/how it looks next year. Instead it'll probably just be Conan spamming because he's bored and had a random thought. [/B]
I like Hoiberg's offensive sets in college. He ran (for college anyway) a really high scoring, very efficient offense. McBuckets/Dunleavy/Butler should really shine if he implements that. Especially when Taj and Mirotic are the screen guys.
When Pau's out there...it won't work as well but yeah. I'm sad to see Thibs go, but I'm excited for the future.[/QUOTE]
LOL. About five threads a day for Conan, right? :eek:
P.S. Is this Hoiberg guy really healthy enough to handle the stress of NBA coaching? I have read up on his condition and I am familiar with it since I have a brother that suffers from the same thing. I don't know if I would recommend that type of stress.
Seriously so I make threads because no one posts on this forum at all and I try to make interesting topics and get people to actually post and I get blamed for spamming.
[QUOTE=KelticForce1349]LOL. About five threads a day for Conan, right? :eek:
P.S. Is this Hoiberg guy really [B]healthy enough[/B] to handle the stress of NBA coaching? I have read up on his condition and I am familiar with it since I have a brother that suffers from the same thing. I don't know if I would recommend that type of stress.[/QUOTE]
That seems to be being kind of ignored. I'd assume since it's the same franchise that didn't want to pay Eddy Curry if he wouldn't take a physical that they wouldn't hire him if he couldn't handle it.