The modern era is the TEAM era

The game has never been as 5 man orientated as it is now

Team offenses are the best they've ever been

As are team defenses

You can't judge the quality of either separately to older eras without mentioning both the offense and the defense. Stats are biased and need to be taken into context

Isolation, simple offenses don't amount to team success like it used to. You cannot afford to have 2-3 players who aren't viable scoring threats on the court anymore like you could in the 80's and 90's. The team defenses are too good now. You need multiple players who can shoot, defend, rebound and pass.

Thus, individual star player stats have suffered. The talent pool didn't magically disappear. Things just changed. Methods and offenses evolved as did the defenses. Scoring 30PPG no longer brought success like it used to. This doesn't mean players can't and don't have the ability to put up amazing stats. Take Westbrook for example. Just that it doesn't bring the team success it used to.

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]The game has never been as 5 man orientated as it is now

Team offenses are the best they've ever been

As are team defenses

You can't judge the quality of either separately to older eras without mentioning both the offense and the defense. Stats are biased and need to be taken into context

Isolation, simple offenses don't amount to team success like it used to. You cannot afford to have 2-3 players who aren't viable scoring threats on the court anymore like you could in the 80's and 90's. The team defenses are too good now. You need multiple players who can shoot, defend, rebound and pass.

Thus, individual star player stats have suffered. The talent pool didn't magically disappear. Things just changed. Methods and offenses evolved as did the defenses. Scoring 30PPG no longer brought success like it used to. This doesn't mean players can't and don't have the ability to put up amazing stats. Take Westbrook for example. Just that it doesn't bring the team success it used to.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit. Crazy good post.

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]The game has never been as 5 man orientated as it is now

Team offenses are the best they've ever been

As are team defenses

You can't judge the quality of either separately to older eras without mentioning both the offense and the defense. Stats are biased and need to be taken into context

Isolation, simple offenses don't amount to team success like it used to. You cannot afford to have 2-3 players who aren't viable scoring threats on the court anymore like you could in the 80's and 90's. The team defenses are too good now. You need multiple players who can shoot, defend, rebound and pass.

Thus, individual star player stats have suffered. The talent pool didn't magically disappear. Things just changed. Methods and offenses evolved as did the defenses. Scoring 30PPG no longer brought success like it used to. This doesn't mean players can't and don't have the ability to put up amazing stats. Take Westbrook for example. Just that it doesn't bring the team success it used to.[/QUOTE]
Bro Mj and Malone is the only one though out yhe whole 90s to put up 30 ppg. 30 ppg isn't common. Also the championship bulls routinely averaged 20+ asts during 90s.

It's a stylistic difference

Assists were easier to get back then due to the illegal defense rules

hard doubles equal open players

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]It's a stylistic difference

Assists were easier to get back then due to the illegal defense rules

hard doubles equal open players[/QUOTE]
Your a complete idiot. The traigle offense produced the same way in the 00s

Westbrook example is horrible. He missed a ton of games and was a Pelicans loss away from making the playoffs. If OKC played in the east we are talking about a team thats going straight to the ECF

Old era fans always talk about the spacing of today

You do realize that they actually have to use these shooters

They don't just sit there and suddenly the lanes are open

The ball goes out of the star players hands

That's what the spacing is founded upon

The other 4 players on the court

In the illegal defense era it didn't matter

You could get that same spacing without the shooters

The rules enforced this

This is why they could get away with so many rebounder types, that weren't legitimate scoring options

Simple offensive gameplans

pretty sure the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s were all more team oriented than todays game...

asside from a few exceptions like wilt and the 60s lakers

Remember it is a stylistic thing

The whole gameplan in of itself compromises of multiple scoring options

This is not the same as having a rebounder scoring on a putback or rebounding and passing to an open man

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]Old era fans always talk about the spacing of today

You do realize that they actually have to use these shooters

They don't just sit there and suddenly the lanes are open

The ball goes out of the star players hands

That's what the spacing is founded upon

The other 4 players on the court

In the illegal defense era it didn't matter

You could get that same spacing without the shooters

The rules enforced this

This is why they could get away with so many rebounder types, that weren't legitimate scoring options

Simple offensive gameplans[/QUOTE]
The triangle offense produced the same results. They had spacing and elite passing.

Real talk
Back in the day everyone was statpadding that PPG
Nowadays it's all about PPG/RPG/APG.
[IMG]http://static.ebony.com/Colombian_article-small_6775.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=juju151111]Bro Mj and Malone is the only one though out yhe whole 90s to put up 30 ppg. 30 ppg isn't common. Also the championship bulls routinely averaged 20+ asts during 90s.[/QUOTE]

I really don't know why anyone replies to this fool's threads anymore. Seriously the worst, most asinine gimmick going and that's a hell of an accomplishment in these parts.

The elite offenses of the 80s were based on the principle of 1-5 being involved in the offense. Ball movement and player movement were paramount. The league in the 90s averaged more APG even under similar paces to today's league.

And like you pointed out, Jordan and Malone were the only players in the 90s who reached the 30 PPG plateau. 2 guys in the whole decade. Malone only did it once. But then once the league introduced the rule changes, all of a sudden guys whose peak scoring in the 90s was 20-27 PPG shot up to 30-35 PPG... but scoring got harder doe.

Story checks out I guess.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE]Westbrook example is horrible. He missed a ton of games and was a Pelicans loss away from making the playoffs. If OKC played in the east we are talking about a team thats going straight to the ECF[/QUOTE]

Not to mention OKC plays strictly isolation and has had the last 2 scoring champions on their squad. But they've made the WCF, Finals in this 'team-oriented, 5 man offense era' where a guy like Kendrick Perkins can't find work... oh wait.

is that why Bran just played an entire finals going iso ball..

can bran not play a team game..??

OP never watched Showtime Lakers, nor Bird led Celtics :roll:

I think he was trying to say that now you can't be just a rebounder or just a good passer on the floor. To be a good player on a good team means you have to have at least two abilities from scoring/rebounding/defense/playmaking.
Also, if you consider who won the title in the last years, the Heat, Spurs and GSW they all had multiple players that are good playmakers on the floor at the same time. It's crucial to have that because defensive schemes have gotten smarter. The Heat had James and Wade, maybe Chalmers and Allen also. And they could win without rebounding and interior defense. The Spurs had Parker, Ginobili, Diaw and maybe Duncan. And they won without a great scorer. GSW had Curry and Green and they won without size. This a main reason why teams like Houston, Clippers or the Grizzlies couldn't go all the way this year. They only have Paul,Harden and Conley.

[QUOTE=robby712]I think he was trying to say that now you can't be just a rebounder or just a good passer on the floor. To be a good player on a good team means you have to have at least two abilities from scoring/rebounding/defense/playmaking.
Also, if you consider who won the title in the last years, the Heat, Spurs and GSW they all had multiple players that are good playmakers on the floor at the same time. It's crucial to have that because defensive schemes have gotten smarter. The Heat had James and Wade, maybe Chalmers and Allen also. And they could win without rebounding and interior defense. The Spurs had Parker, Ginobili, Diaw and maybe Duncan. And they won without a great scorer. GSW had Curry and Green and they won without size. This a main reason why teams like Houston, Clippers or the Grizzlies couldn't go all the way this year. They only have Paul,Harden and Conley.[/QUOTE]

There is no other era Historically but this one where a player of DeAndre Jordan's caliber is a max contract player. Absolutely none.

There are one or at best two dimensional players now who are making all NBA first teams and getting max dollars where in the past they would've been coming off the bench.

Lol weak argument dan

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]Lol weak argument dan[/QUOTE]

Kendrick Perkins, bitch. Argue against that.

[IMG]https://flamingbagofpoo.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/kendrick-perkins-champion.jpg[/IMG]

ha ok

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]


[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/0l1UUv8.gif[/IMG]


[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-11-2015/5_A_4K.gif[/IMG]


The ball goes out of the star players hands


[/QUOTE]
Wow bro, DonDadda and juju are really doing a number on you... No shame in saying [I]no mas[/I] when you're getting your ass handed to you like that.

It's funny too because I was just thinking how unbelievable MJ and Wade would've been together in today's spacing - just imagine Wade with the ball on the strongside.. The defense would have to pick their poison - either let Wade operate on a strongside where the defensive resistance has been decimated by weakside spacing, or, flood the strongside and leave the weakside a man down where the greatest off-ball player ever is lurking and ready.

Heck, in the 80's and 90's, MJ's off-ball game decimated fully-flooded strongsides that contained all 5 defenders (seen above).. In today's game, where the spacing causes the weakside and strongside to split the defenders evenly, MJ's explosively athletic off-ball game would run roughshod.

People forget that today's spacing doesn't just provide wider driving lanes for the ballhandler - spacing benefits off-ball players just as much, since they benefit from late, rotating defenses as well as any scheme used to stop today's lethal, spacing-inspired drive-and-kick (like the aforementioned strongside flood).
.

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]is that why Bran just played an entire finals going iso ball..

can bran not play a team game..??[/QUOTE]
Still averaged 8 or 9 assists in the series including a couple 40 pt triple doubles. People mistake ISO ball for the guy ISOing taking a shot everytime. That's not necessarily how it works. ISO often results in drawing defense towards your direction (not necessarily double team) and dishing it out for an open shooter. It's just that Shumpert/Smith weren't hitting at the clip they normally were like against Atlanta, or the Boston series despite there being a ton of ISO ball in those series too.

And it's pretty obvious that LeBron doesn't like ISOing that much, but was forced to since he is basically the only shot creator with Love/Kyrie out and JR Smith playing terribly.

But he won 2 rings playing team ball and generally played team ball his whole career including the old Cleveland team. This series was a rare exception because there literally wasn't another shot creator. I thought all of this was fairly obvious though. But either way, this notion that LeBron "can't play team ball" is just simply retarded, especially after years of you guys saying he passes too much and should always be the one to take the last shot of the game. Seems like that is just contradictory if anything.

[QUOTE=robby712]I think he was trying to say that now you can't be just a rebounder or just a good passer on the floor. To be a good player on a good team means you have to have at least two abilities from scoring/rebounding/defense/playmaking.
Also, if you consider who won the title in the last years, the Heat, Spurs and GSW they all had multiple players that are good playmakers on the floor at the same time. It's crucial to have that because defensive schemes have gotten smarter. The Heat had James and Wade, maybe Chalmers and Allen also. And they could win without rebounding and interior defense. The Spurs had Parker, Ginobili, Diaw and maybe Duncan. And they won without a great scorer. GSW had Curry and Green and they won without size. This a main reason why teams like Houston, Clippers or the Grizzlies couldn't go all the way this year. They only have Paul,Harden and Conley.[/QUOTE]
Honestly pretty good points all around.

I'm not sure what the OP means by modern era, but I'd say things have been pretty team oriented in the 2000s as well. The Pistons, Lakers with the triangle, and of course the prime Duncan/Manu/Parker Spurs were all very team oriented despite being top heavy. Lakers had two stars covering a good amount of the scoring, but those guys were also doing other things to help the team as a whole. I still think 2014 Spurs is the most team oriented of all the Spurs teams. It was truly equal opportunity and you honestly could have made a case for like 3-4 different guys being FMVP. 2015 Warriors were a pretty well balanced team too. Curry was the lead scorer, but he wasn't dropping 30 ppg. All the role players would throw in on scoring and it could be a different role player each night who has a big night.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]There is no other era Historically but this one where a player of DeAndre Jordan's caliber is a max contract player. Absolutely none.

There are one or at best two dimensional players now who are making all NBA first teams and getting max dollars where in the past they would've been coming off the bench.[/QUOTE]

It depends on what you consider a max contract. DeAndre is a special case. The LAC need his type of player to be a very good team. They need his defense and size, and also his dunks and energy. There wasn't another player with his abilities so they had to overpay. But even so, consider this:
In 1995-1996 Dikembe Mutombo's numbers were 11/12 with 4 blocks.
In 2014-2015 Jordan's numbers were 11.5/15 with 2 blocks.
In 1996 Mutombo moved to Atlanta and his salary was 8 million $.
DeAndre's deal with the LAC is almost 20 million $.
The cap for the 96/97 season was 24.3 million, so Mutombo's salary was 1/3 of the cap.
The cap for the 15/16 season is 70 million, so DeAndre is at less then 1/3 of the cap.
Don't judge his money based on value itself. Players earn a lot more that they did 20 years ago.

Curry 28 ppg in the playoffs. Curry the best iso scorer right now. Just because bran cant doesnt mean its not effective anymore

OP is 100% right. Basketball is just better nowadays. Lebron > MJ

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Kendrick Perkins, bitch. Argue against that.

[IMG]https://flamingbagofpoo.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/kendrick-perkins-champion.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]


Ether.

[QUOTE=Jameerthefear]OP is 100% right. Basketball is just better nowadays. Lebron > MJ[/QUOTE]


Your ass better get back to work before 20Four sees you slacking off. Them burgers ain't gonna flip themselves.

[QUOTE=robby712]It depends on what you consider a max contract. DeAndre is a special case. The LAC need his type of player to be a very good team. They need his defense and size, and also his dunks and energy. There wasn't another player with his abilities so they had to overpay. But even so, consider this:
In 1995-1996 Dikembe Mutombo's numbers were 11/12 with 4 blocks.
In 2014-2015 Jordan's numbers were 11.5/15 with 2 blocks.
In 1996 Mutombo moved to Atlanta and his salary was 8 million $.
DeAndre's deal with the LAC is almost 20 million $.
The cap for the 96/97 season was 24.3 million, so Mutombo's salary was 1/3 of the cap.
The cap for the 15/16 season is 70 million, so DeAndre is at less then 1/3 of the cap.
Don't judge his money based on value itself. Players earn a lot more that they did 20 years ago.[/QUOTE]
This.

I agree with OP

love how the op picks and chooses which posts he replies to.

[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]The game has never been as 5 man orientated as it is now

Team offenses are the best they've ever been

As are team defenses

You can't judge the quality of either separately to older eras without mentioning both the offense and the defense. Stats are biased and need to be taken into context

Isolation, simple offenses don't amount to team success like it used to. You cannot afford to have 2-3 players who aren't viable scoring threats on the court anymore like you could in the 80's and 90's. The team defenses are too good now. You need multiple players who can shoot, defend, rebound and pass.

Thus, individual star player stats have suffered. The talent pool didn't magically disappear. Things just changed. Methods and offenses evolved as did the defenses. Scoring 30PPG no longer brought success like it used to. This doesn't mean players can't and don't have the ability to put up amazing stats. Take Westbrook for example. Just that it doesn't bring the team success it used to.[/QUOTE]


Holy shit. Crazy good post.