Checkmate Atheists!

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--yUk6sRYfKs/UCRQtj3gakI/AAAAAAAAIww/l0HmuRDTRBA/s1600/atheism%2Bmakes%2Bno%2Bsense.jpg[/IMG]

Atheists do worship a God.

Themselves!!!!

They just don't realize it.

It's only that initiating particle that atheists cannot explain, son.

[i]Count it![/i]

(in no way can I ever say that my beliefs are better than an Atheists. My God would never allow me to take credit for my own faith. Even he gets the glory for giving us faith... it's a gift just like everything else)

There is no atheist, only agnostics.

the only time someone is wrong on the topic of religion is when someone points to a religion and says that its wrong or stupid. all beliefs are valid

[QUOTE=iamgine]There is no atheist, only agnostics.[/QUOTE]

Separate notions.

those who believe in their god they don't believe all other gods,so the atheists don't believe in 1 more god than the others :confusedshrug:

I'm an Atheist. I don't know why we're here or where our Universe came from. I'm not claiming to know either, which is the complete opposite of religion.

Simple enough for you?

[QUOTE=step_back]I'm an Atheist. I don't know why we're here or where our Universe came from. I'm not claiming to know either, which is the complete opposite of religion.

Simple enough for you?[/QUOTE]
If you don't know, you're an agnostic, not an atheist

Atheists claim there is no creator, that space, time, light, matter, etc just came to exist from nothing.

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]the only time someone is wrong on the topic of religion is when someone points to a religion and says that its wrong or stupid. all beliefs are valid[/QUOTE]
I'm not with you on this one, some religions are clearly wrong and stupid.

The thing is I believe religion brings a lot of people mental stability, cures depression, has even been shown to cure mental disorders.

There are plenty of examples of religion turning people into nut jobs too, but from what I've encountered it's helped more people than its hurt.

[QUOTE=masonanddixon]It's only that initiating particle that atheists cannot explain, son.[/QUOTE]
Genesis "explains" the origins of the universe too. Just because you have an explanation doesn't mean it's right. Maybe there was a Big Bang, maybe there wasn't.

Can't you just believe in evolution...?

[QUOTE=UK2K]Can't you just believe in evolution...?[/QUOTE]
Scientific fairy tales

[QUOTE=UK2K]Can't you just believe in evolution...?[/QUOTE]
Evolution doesn't explain what caused the Big Bang or why anything at all exists.

[QUOTE=iamgine]There is no atheist, only agnostics.[/QUOTE]
Atheists ARE agnostics.

Atheism is a lack of belief. Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge. Atheists lack belief in theism. But they're also agnostics as they lack knowledge of what exists outside of our known universe.

[QUOTE=~primetime~]If you don't know, you're an agnostic, not an atheist

Atheists claim there is no creator, that space, time, light, matter, etc just came to exist from nothing.[/QUOTE]

No, not nothing, a singularity, a superheavy, superdense point with no dimensions in Euclid's definition of space. Basically everything was provably there, but unthinkable close together.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Atheists ARE agnostics.

Atheism is a lack of belief. Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge. Atheists lack belief in theism. But they're also agnostics as they lack knowledge of what exists outside of our known universe.[/QUOTE]
No there is a difference between the two.

A true atheist literally believes there is no creator(s)

[QUOTE=~primetime~]No there is a difference between the two.

A true atheist literally believes the is no creator(s)[/QUOTE]
A = without. Theism = belief in god/gods, roughly.

Lack of belief of existence =/= affirmative belief in non-existence.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]A = without. Theism = belief in god/gods, roughly.

Lack of belief of existence =/= affirmative belief in non-existence.[/QUOTE]
Listen, if you think 'maybe' there is a God, not sure...you're not really an atheist

You should claim agnostic...

If that's your belief and you insist on claiming atheism, then you must really just like the word atheist or something and the way you think people view you with that title

There is but one God and he is the creator of every living thing in the Universe. Yes, including us with all our faults. This is why he sent down his only son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to explain to us about the Father and the Holy Spirit and to explain to us that our life has meaning and that it just wasn't happenstance.

Whether you believe or do not believe, at least know this. God believes in you.

[QUOTE=~primetime~]Listen, if you think 'maybe' there is a God, not sure...you're not really an atheist

You should claim agnostic...

If that's your belief and you insist on claiming atheism, then you must really just like the word atheist or something and the way you think people view you with that title[/QUOTE]
This

[QUOTE=~primetime~]Evolution doesn't explain what caused the Big Bang or why anything at all exists.[/QUOTE]

Sure it does...

The theory that life evolved from bacteria millions and millions of years ago and evolved into what we are now is an explanation as to how we got here.

It doesn't explain the Big Bang, but really, shit just happening is an explanation. Planets collide into other planets. Stars die. Shit happens.

[QUOTE=~primetime~]Listen, if you think 'maybe' there is a God, not sure...you're not really an atheist

You should claim agnostic...

If that's your belief and you insist on claiming atheism, then you must really just like the word atheist or something and the way you think people view you with that title[/QUOTE]
I don't refer to myself as an atheist... but the word means what it means.

Let's simplify this. I lack a belief of the existence of your brother. Maybe you have a brother, maybe you don't. I don't believe you have one and I don't believe that you don't. I have a complete lack of belief on the matter.

Some atheists do also have the additional belief that no god exists. Some atheists have no opinion at all on it.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I don't refer to myself as an atheist... but the word means what it means.

Let's simplify this. I lack a belief of the existence of your brother. Maybe you have a brother, maybe you don't. I don't believe you have one and I don't believe that you don't. I have a complete lack of belief on the matter.

[B]Some atheists do also have the additional belief that no god exists. Some atheists have no opinion at all on it.[/B][/QUOTE]

Myself. I don't believe there is a God. I don't believe there isn't. I don't care one way or the other. I'd like to believe there is a God, but I haven't seen any evidence of it so... I just assume its not real.

[QUOTE=NumberSix]I don't refer to myself as an atheist... but the word means what it means.

Let's simplify this. I lack a belief of the existence of your brother. Maybe you have a brother, maybe you don't. I don't believe you have one and I don't believe that you don't. I have a complete lack of belief on the matter.

Some atheists do also have the additional belief that no god exists. Some atheists have no opinion at all on it.[/QUOTE]
This. "Belief" is a binary concept: you either have it, or you do not. I can want to believe and want there to be a God (and even act as if there were) and still be an atheist because I lack belief.

You can't "kind of" or "maybe" believe something. Belief is a feeling or sentiment and not a wholly rational position.

[QUOTE=Dresta]This. "Belief" is a binary concept: you either have it, or you do not. I can want to believe and want there to be a God (and even act as if there were) and still be an atheist because I lack belief.

You can't "kind of" or "maybe" believe something. Belief is a feeling or sentiment and not a wholly rational position.[/QUOTE]
It is completely possible to believe that "there could be a higher power, but maybe not, it's impossible to know"

But maybe you're just wanting to debate the semantics of the word "believe"



regardless from your point...there is a clear difference from an individual who -believes- that no higher power exists, and an individual who believes that a higher power MIGHT exist.

[IMG]http://nailtothedoor.com/wp-content/uploads/BeliefMatrix.jpg[/IMG]


^^^ the spectrum is as such

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]There is but One God (before and after Eternity, irrespective of time) and he is the Creator, Sustainer, Nourisher, Protector, Maintainer; of every living thing in the Universe. Yes, including and especially, man, (who is highest of all creatures in his potential for knowledge and spiritual connection with Him) with all our faults and shortcomings. This is why he sent down over 124,000 Prophets as guides (before the Last Messenger) including Jesus Christ son of Mary, Angels, Divine Books (Torah, Injil, Qu'ran), has given man a yearning to live forever and his actions in this life will sow the seeds for the Hereafter, and has written each individual's Fate.

To ponder upon the origins and destination of creation is also one of His commands.

Whether you believe or do not believe, at least know this. God loves you. Far More than a mother loves their baby..[/QUOTE]

Good start, Pat. Adjusted to be more accurate. It can still be improved upon.

Atheism is a religion. Atheists have a blind and unquestioning belief in whatever scientists tell them to believe, just as many evangelicals have blind belief in whatever their pastor tells them to believe.

[QUOTE][B]Religion[/B]
[ri-lij-uh n]
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NumberSix]Genesis "explains" the origins of the universe too. Just because you have an explanation doesn't mean it's right. Maybe there was a Big Bang, maybe there wasn't.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Genesis and practitioners of the teachings of kabbalah have been talking about the big bang for thousands of years before scientists finally figured it out and came to the same conclusion.

[QUOTE=Achilleas]those who believe in their god they don't believe all other gods,so the atheists don't believe in 1 more god than the others :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]

Okay here's a mental exercise for you.

Look outside at everything in your home right now.

The couches, the computer, the television. Everything had to have a manufacturer, yes?

Now look outside at the natural world.

The grass, the mountains, the clouds, the trees etc.

Apply the same logic.

Does having zero maker make more sense than their being One Maker?

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Atheism is a religion. Atheists have a blind and unquestioning belief in whatever scientists tell them to believe, just as many evangelicals have blind belief in whatever their pastor tells them to believe.[/QUOTE]

That's not the truth. There are blind trusting atheists out there, but also those who try to find the truth themselves. The difference is that both - the blind believers of science and the researchers - demand scientific evidence(falsification/verification).

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]
Does having zero maker make more sense than their being One Maker?[/QUOTE]

Yes. It does. For me.

[QUOTE=Overdrive]That's not the truth. [B]There are blind trusting atheists out there, but also those who try to find the truth themselves.[/B] The difference is that both - the blind believers of science and the researchers - demand scientific evidence(falsification/verification).
[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Athiests are just like followers of every other religion. Some seek the way for themselves. Other Atheists are happy to blindly believe what they're told to believe.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]Exactly. Athiests are just like followers of every other religion. Some seek the way for themselves. Other Atheists are happy to blindly believe what they're told to believe.[/QUOTE]

Of course. It's just another way to deal with faith and death. Every human being does that.

[QUOTE=UK2K]Myself. I don't believe there is a God. I don't believe there isn't. I don't care one way or the other. I'd like to believe there is a God, but I haven't seen any evidence of it so... I just assume its not real.[/QUOTE]

You haven't "seen" any evidence of God?

Okay, mental experiment.

You hold down your mouse and you drag your Elite Janissaries and position them into the sides of the 4 castles to avoid flank, from this you understand there's a Commander compelling them to protect a sneak attack of Huskarls on the fortress.

Now ask yourself, Who, compels you to protect your non-related loved ones? You were nothing but a lifeless sperm clot a quarter century back, there had to have been something in your brain wiring that compelled you to have this ability. From this you understand, that as a creation, I want to defend and protect. Now you come to (begin to) realize a portion of God's attributes (Al-Muhaymin, Al-Waliyy)

Likewise, God, your Creator; has protected all of us from hundreds of diseases, hundreds of injuries, thousands of atrocities, millions of bad outcomes every single step of our lives. It's a miracle that the the 70,000,000 cells in our body die, are recreated, re-maintained, die, regrow, exchange oxygen, exchange nutrients, dispose of waste without OUR CONSCIOUS control of it.

You look at the people of the Afghanistan and you toss them Gatorade to quench their thirst. There had to have been a reason why a) you wanted to help the foreigners (who can NO have help for your evolutionary reproductive success) . You are compelled to help them.
Thus from the creation helping all other creation it is understood that there is
a merciful temperament within us, bestowed by One that is All-Merciful, Very-Merciful (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Rahim)

Examples of God's mercy are ALL around you. Trees stand up straight yet they are nourished by water and sunlight. The floor of the Earth is not littered with the corpses of insects, somehow someway they disappear every day. Cats and dogs (which don't really have much of an impact on a human) are being served food on a silver platter Helpless babies are being nourished by their mothers. People don't treat each other as best as possible and certainly not how they treat themselves, yet instead of hostility, they are met with pardon.

Relating to the aforementionted tossing of the Gatorade, it should be known that there is no liquid on earth that can work as well as what has been given for free; that is clean spring or well water (or if you're willing to go to Hajj, ZamZam water). Gatorade, a product of experimentation and mingling of electrolytes is used to fuel athletes. Yet it is still inferior to licking on a salt stick and drinking fresh water. And evolution does not account for our top class Olympic athletes being inferior to our ancestors. Nor our top minds being less wise than men of the past.


Then why is it that
a) People who worked in manual labor in the Ottoman Empire were known to carry heavy stones for hours a day easily
b) The Greeks had slaves who rowed boats for nearly 20 hours a day subsisting off bread and barley.
c) The Egyptians and their pyramids
d) Abraham lived much, much longer than any human being today
e) The memory of the Arabs were retentive enough to hold hundreds of thousands of poems.
f) The Native American warriors themselves were stronger, more conditioned, had more endurance than guys like Rich Froning.
(Look up Chaos and Pain for)
And many more examples


Nor does Evolution does not account for the survival of hundreds and thousands of small dogs that do not shepherd, nor hunt, nor guard yet enjoy comfy, cozy lives. They are as far away from wolves as

God's mercy and God's love are much stronger, more predominant, and accurate explanations why the world operates the way it does.


It also alludes to a natural unity and fraternity between all Mankind, be they from the rural areas of Kentucky or the deserts of Kabul. And each and every human has the same basic features, but they are different (look at people's fingerprints). If you were to, theoretically, create a collection of Ken's Dolls, each different, yet with the same basic structure, you would have to have knowledge of each previous one to make each one unique, no?

Evolution would compel one to coldly slaughter the menfolk of other tribes to ensure maximum reproductive success. Yet, you didn't kill the Afghans, did you?

God starting the universe is a shit explanation. Who created God? There is always one step farther back that you can go with this explanation.

[QUOTE=Overdrive]That's not the truth. There are blind trusting atheists out there, but also those who try to find the truth themselves. The difference is that both - the blind believers of science and the researchers - demand scientific evidence(falsification/verification).



[B]Yes. It does. For me[/B].[/QUOTE]


Look outside at the sky. The sun. Rivers. Mountains. Trees.

These are masterpieces that could not have been built if all of mankind worked together with the most supreme, precise technology to do so. How can the troposphere, thermosphere, exosphere, mesosphere, atmospheric layers, year after year after year, since the genesis of this Earth manage to sustain all the millions of life forms within it?


How can the Earth even be situated so perfectly that had it been (estimated a bit closer or a bit further) man would've died out from heat stroke or burning.

And they themselves don't have the intelligence to speak. You ever built a building before, Overdrive? Or marvelled at an architecture Bricks don't magically communicate with other bricks to just auto-place themselves in perfect orderly fashion. No sir. Frank Lloyd Wright planned plotted and actualized that in a most meticulous fashion.

So how could the molecules that compose a tree or a mountain just auto-arrange? They aren't even capable of moving or communicating.

[QUOTE=JEFFERSON MONEY]Look outside at the sky. The sun. Rivers. Mountains. Trees.

These are masterpieces that could not have been built if all of mankind worked together with the most supreme, precise technology to do so. How can the troposphere, thermosphere, exosphere, mesosphere, atmospheric layers, year after year after year, since the genesis of this Earth manage to sustain all the millions of life forms within it?


How can the Earth even be situated so perfectly that had it been (estimated a bit closer or a bit further) man would've died out from heat stroke or burning.

And they themselves don't have the intelligence to speak. You ever built a building before, Overdrive? Or marvelled at an architecture Bricks don't magically communicate with other bricks to just auto-place themselves in perfect orderly fashion. No sir. Frank Lloyd Wright planned plotted and actualized that in a most meticulous fashion.

So how could the molecules that compose a tree or a mountain just auto-arrange? They aren't even capable of moving or communicating.[/QUOTE]

I don't think you understand molecules very well