Today's era has 'exposed' big men and bumped them down the all-time rankings

New Rankings

[INDENT]1) MJ
2) Bird
3) Magic
4) Kareem
5) Wilt
6) Russell
7) Kobe
8) Shaq
9) Duncan
10) Durant[/INDENT]


[I]I think we have to put Durant ahead of Lebron because he outplayed lebron 3 times heads-up in the Finals, and obviously if he 3-peats[/I]

I expect bigs to continue tumbling the rankings going forward

Or has today's era exposed guards that can't shoot threes?

Eh -

Russell, Kareem, Wilt, MJ

- GOATS to not just myself but a lot of people - and many people add many more and who's to say they'd be wrong so long as their criteria is clear, and the players they choose match it best

The GOAT list IMO only gets added to.

Doing it numerically just doesn't make sense, never understood people trying organize it as if it's ranked anyways - they all did completely different stuff quantifying it is way too abstract I'd imagine you'll catch yourself arguing with people non stop if you dig into some sort of order based ranking system. I mean, Wilt Russell and Jabbar - or Shaq or Hakeem even if the more recent guys are your flavor. Those guys don't "fall". They are stuck in way up high. I stopped bothering with trying to number people years ago.

Really, Durant top 10 now :lol The fck did he do to surpass Hakeem?

99% sure you made this thread to put Durant over Lebron.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory]99% sure you made this thread to put Durant over Lebron.[/QUOTE]
I didn't even catch that :oldlol:

[QUOTE=LoneyROY7]Or has today's era exposed guards that can't shoot threes?[/QUOTE]
No, but once the league started driving-and-kicking for 3 pointers instead of 2-pointers, drive-and-kick became a more efficient play than post ups/midrange, and took over as the format going forward

So the 3-point line is an artificial factor that caused the league to move away from a certain style of play into today's spaced-out, free-for-all

But the league is starting to think the pursuit of threes above all else is ruining basketball and reducing it to gimmicky 3-point shooting contest with zero D:

[url]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WeH-bzt8ZAw[/url]


The 6:55 mark summarizes it

[QUOTE=hiphopanonymous]I didn't even catch that :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
The premise of it doesn't even make sense. :lol

Why would GOAT bigs move down because of this spaced out 3pt shooting era. Especially when its not in favor of people...from this era.

3braincells strikes again.

3ball off topic - saw gifs of you ballin

Recognizable talent and skill in the few clips - you played D1? Whether I agree or disagree with your opinions I do respect people who see the game from a position of having played and refined their own game I think that background helps to recognize what other players do - you should post a vid at some point

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory]The premise of it doesn't even make sense. :lol

Why would GOAT bigs move down because of this spaced out 3pt shooting era. Especially when its not in favor of people...from this era.[/QUOTE]
Today's perimeter-based offenses show that the Kareem's and Hakeem's of the world are even less necessary to win than MJ had previously shown them to be.
.

3Ball, what was you 3P% in college?

[QUOTE=3ball]Today's perimeter-based offenses show that the Kareem's and Hakeem's of the world are even less necessary to win than MJ had previously shown them to be[/QUOTE]
Still doesn't make sense. If there are zero dominant bigs then you don't need bigs to win. This is a watered down era, yes?

50 years from now if every player is 6'9+ and hulking and no one shoots deep shots anymore would that devalue great shooters like Steph in their own era, since they were necessary then?

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory]Still doesn't make sense. If there are zero dominant bigs then you don't need bigs to win. This is a watered down era, yes?

50 years from now if every player is 6'9+ and hulking and no one shoots deep shots anymore would that devalue great shooters like Steph in their own era, since they were necessary then?[/QUOTE]
Right, that's my point - today's perimeter era shows more than ever that you don't need those dominant bigs to win - i.e. Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, etc

And now when we look back, it's clear these guys like shaq/kareem, etc needed more help than Kobe/MJ and all-time perimeter players in general.. this is an obvious trend looking back - dominant bigs need more help, and the brand of ball they yield is less flexible

If Durant wins this year, he's confirmed as a top tier, all-time perimeter player, and therefore could be ranked with the 2nd tier bigs (duncan, shaq), still below the top tier bigs (KAJ, Russell, wilt)..

[QUOTE=Marchesk]3Ball, what was you 3P% in college?[/QUOTE]
Below 30% copying his idol (without the shortened 3PT line) :bowdown:

I'm pretty sure 3ball is just trolling us since if past players don't play in this era and all their bodies of work happened in their own era how would what's happening now even matter but I'll ignore that and play along:

Step aside Dr. J, Ice man and A-Train...

...5-10 Billy Shepherd, 6-2 Brian Taylor and 6-8 Red Robbins are now the ABA GOATs

41-42% 3 point shooters - despite contact/hand checking defensive era :eek: :bowdown:

Adjusted with my patented no contact formula and their 3 point % goes up to over ...58% :wtf: incredible :bowdown: :bowdown:

[QUOTE=3ball]New Rankings

[INDENT]1) MJ
2) Bird
3) Magic
4) Kareem
5) Wilt
6) Russell
7) Kobe
8) Shaq
9) Duncan
10) Durant[/INDENT]


[I]I think we have to put Durant ahead of Lebron because he outplayed lebron 3 times heads-up in the Finals, and obviously if he 3-peats[/I]

I expect bigs to continue tumbling the rankings going forward[/QUOTE]

Bird is #2 for sure for anyone that cares about translatable skills and positive impact on the sport (basically what the question of greatness boils down to).

I don't think Kareem can be put ahead of Wilt or Shaq though. Kobe certainly can't be put ahead of Shaq.

I don't think the idea you are pushing about big men is quite right, but yes, Bird is #2. Magic's skills wouldn't translate super well to today's game though, so I wonder what's going on with the list. He did have a big impact on the sport though.

[QUOTE=3ball]Right, that's my point - today's perimeter era shows more than ever that you don't need those dominant bigs to win - i.e. Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Duncan, etc

And now when we look back, it's clear these guys like shaq/kareem, etc needed more help than Kobe/MJ and all-time perimeter players in general.. this is an obvious trend looking back - dominant bigs need more help, and the brand of ball they yield is less flexible

If Durant wins this year, he's confirmed as a top tier, all-time perimeter player, and therefore could be ranked with the 2nd tier bigs (duncan, shaq), still below the top tier bigs (KAJ, Russell, wilt)..[/QUOTE]
So this era proves that Magic > Kareem? Gotcha

I can't wait for the 4 point shot to expose all basketball even further :rockon:

da *** Durant do to overshadow Lebron? win with reigning MVP as costar ad 3 other all stars? Don't show me that 3 over lebron, if that's the best you got just go home

All today's era proves is that the NBA has changed the rules and altered the focus of officiating to favor the outside shot and to aid smaller players to be able to drive to the basket without having to fear that some neanderthal will clothesline them and take their head off. Curry, Harden, Westbrook would be just as lost and out of their element in the 70's as the greats from that era would be in todays game.

Good list op.

Curry also climbing fast

[QUOTE='Toine=MVP]Bird is #2 for sure for anyone that cares about translatable skills and positive impact on the sport (basically what the question of greatness boils down to).

I don't think Kareem can be put ahead of Wilt or Shaq though. Kobe certainly can't be put ahead of Shaq.

I don't think the idea you are pushing about big men is quite right, but yes, Bird is #2. Magic's skills wouldn't translate super well to today's game though, so I wonder what's going on with the list. He did have a big impact on the sport though.[/QUOTE]
what? Kobe is most definitely ahead of Shaq.

I agree, and I'd also bump down all the guards that played in an era dominated by bigs