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Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
I like both guys. I think mj is slightly better but I think Kobe deserves to be in the goat convo just as much as LeBron or any other great. I don't get the Kobe is more skilled statement though. What is more skilled at?
The only thing out of all the aspect of basketball that I can think of is handles and 3 point shooting. The handles one is actually interesting because it seems alot of people seem to think that better handles means more flashy handles where I would say better handles means being able to get to your spots and beat your defender while protecting the ball. Mj did this as good or probably a little bit better than Kobe.
Everything else mj was as skilled or more skilled than Kobe. Jordan was a better passer, rebounder and defender. There footwork was equal. Mid-range was equal. Jordan was a better finisher. Jordan moved better off the ball.
Am I missing something? What is Kobe more skilled at than mj other than 3 point shooting?
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
Kobe pretty skilled at throwing SHAQ under the bus.. :applause:
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=NBASTATMAN]Kobe pretty skilled at throwing SHAQ under the bus.. :applause:[/QUOTE]
How about throwing Shaq wide open spoonfed passes?
[IMG]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2482/3954617440_a3e7dc95d8.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
Kobe will always be a poor man's version of MJ
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
Kobe isn't more skilled overall
The MJ fam simply invented the "more skilled" narrative for Kobe fam, just to throw them a bone as they get left out of the goat debate.. I mean, it's an unfortunate set of circumstances that Kobe couldn't match MJ and now gets forgotten
But ultimately, it's the media's fault though for propping up a non-goat and forgetting about Kobe
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=3ball]Kobe isn't more skilled overall
The MJ fam simply invented the "more skilled" narrative for Kobe fam, just to throw them a bone as they get left out of the goat debate.. I mean, it's an unfortunate set of circumstances that Kobe couldn't match MJ and now gets forgotten
But ultimately, it's the media's fault though for propping up a non-goat and forgetting about Kobe[/QUOTE]
Why did Phil Jackson say otherwise?
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
More skilled? :lol :lol
Kobe couldnt slash for shit, hence why he's a career 44% shooter.
Worse defender.
Less clutch.
Worse handles.
Slower.
Less athletic.
Worse mid-range.
I could go on.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=Nowoco]More skilled? :lol :lol
Kobe couldnt slash for shit, hence why he's a career 44% shooter.
Worse defender.
Less clutch.
Worse handles.
Slower.
Less athletic.
Worse mid-range.
I could go on.[/QUOTE]
Why do Kobe and Duncan have the same career TS%?
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=superduper]Why did Phil Jackson say otherwise?[/QUOTE]
Again, the MJ fam invented the "more skilled" narrative for Kobe fam, just to throw them a bone as they get left out of the goat debate..
it's an unfortunate set of circumstances (Kobe copying the goat but coming up short) that Kobe now gets forgotten
MJ fam feels sorry for him.. it's not how we intended
And Phil is MJ fam.. he knows MJ is the one that put his shit, garbage-ass, almost entirely unsuccessful triangle on the map. Otherwise, Kobe would never have gotten to use it. MJ made Phil by accepting him and his shit offense
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[B]Outside and 3-point shooting goes to Kobe. Aesthetic ball handling goes to Kobe (Jordan had bigger hands so it looked less flashy). Then the rest defense, driving to the basket, hang time, strength, speed, quickness, agility, foot quickness, mid range shooting and inside scoring goes to MJ.[/B]
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=superduper]Why did Phil Jackson say otherwise?[/QUOTE]
Could be because like many he miss uses the word. Many equate more flashy to more skilled. The better handles is a perfect example. Kobe had much more flashy handles but I would argue that mj had better handles or at least as good. This is due to Mj's hand size and more efficient dribbling technique.
Forget what Phil says. What do you say? What is Kobe more skilled at exactly
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=Manny98]Kobe will always be a poor man's version of MJ[/QUOTE]
This. And as accomplished as Kobe was, he'll be inferior to MJ. But which NBA player isn't?
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
jordans shot beyond 15 feet was a flat push shot like a 6th grade female on her period.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]jordans shot beyond 15 feet was a flat push shot like a 6th grade female on her period.[/QUOTE]
This :applause:
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
As already mentioned, it has mostly to do with deeper range and live dribble. Well, Kobe [B]HAD[/B] to be better with a live dribble because he didn't have MJ's amazing first step/quickness. So while Kobe needed to dance a little to get guys leaning one way and counter, MJ could just plant and explode by you. Still think that if MJ had Kobe's athleticism, he would've adopted a better live dribble too.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
MJ is so much better it isn't even funny. Kobe had to try extremely hard to score in bunches. For MJ, it was effortless. His fundamentals were more sound and he hardly had any wasted movements.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=3ball]Kobe isn't more skilled overall
The MJ fam simply invented the "more skilled" narrative for Kobe fam, just to throw them a bone as they get left out of the goat debate.. I mean, it's an unfortunate set of circumstances that Kobe couldn't match MJ and now gets forgotten
But ultimately, it's the media's fault though for propping up a non-goat and forgetting about Kobe[/QUOTE]
An argument can be made that Kobe had better footwork than MJ. As for 3 point shooting, if MJ started playing when Kobe did, he would be as good or better than Kobe at 3 point shooting.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=egokiller][B]An argument can be made that Kobe had better footwork than MJ[/B]. As for 3 point shooting, if MJ started playing when Kobe did, he would be as good or better than Kobe at 3 point shooting.[/QUOTE]
Hell no. You can seriously make an argument that MJ was the most fundamentally sound player ever. He had all of that sh*t down. ALL OF IT. Kobe had the fortune of watching/copying MJ and adding a wrinkle here and there. But in terms of pure fundamentals, MJ was about as good as it gets.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]Hell no. You can seriously make an argument that MJ was the most fundamentally sound player ever. He had all of that sh*t down. ALL OF IT. Kobe had the fortune of watching/copying MJ and adding a wrinkle here and there. But in terms of pure fundamentals, MJ was about as good as it gets.[/QUOTE]
It's no diss to MJ that Kobe was able to somewhat mimic what was already done and expand upon it. The fact that MJ was so GOAT that the only thing Kobe could enhance was his footwork is proof on just how GOAT MJ really was. What's really sad is how LeBron had the blueprints of BOTH Kobe and MJ yet still somehow managed to fvck it all up and go 3/9. :roll:
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=lilteapot]MJ is so much better it isn't even funny. Kobe had to try extremely hard to score in bunches. For MJ, it was effortless. His fundamentals were more sound and he hardly had any wasted movements.[/QUOTE]
the funny thing is you dont even realize you just made the argument for kobe being more skilled
ofcourse it was more difficult for kobe to score. he wasnt bigger/stronger/faster than all the guys defending him. he needed more skill to dominate.
with the same advantage and hand size kobe wouldnt have settled for as many long range fading highly contested shots
kobe needed to be the best high difficulty shot maker ever to get where he was
Kobe with mjs skill wouldnt have been nearly as legendary
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]As already mentioned, it has mostly to do with deeper range and live dribble. Well, Kobe [B]HAD[/B] to be better with a live dribble because he didn't have MJ's amazing first step/quickness. So while Kobe needed to dance a little to get guys leaning one way and counter, MJ could just plant and explode by you. Still think that if MJ had Kobe's athleticism, he would've adopted a better live dribble too.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Some skills need to be adopted out of necessity. If MJ had a more 'modern' and-1 style handle it would have been more unfair than it already was. Kobe's ball-handling even within his own career changed, he had far more of a 'fancy' dribble when he came into the league but that changed over time...maybe due to finger injuries, maybe due to his game just maturing and using other methods( footwork) to get the defender off balance rather than crossing guys like he was doing as 'frobe'.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]the funny thing is you dont even realize you just made the argument for kobe being more skilled
ofcourse it was more difficult for kobe to score. he wasnt bigger/stronger/faster than all the guys defending him. he needed more skill to dominate.
with the same advantage and hand size kobe wouldnt have settled for as many long range fading highly contested shots
kobe needed to be the best high difficulty shot maker ever to get where he was
Kobe with mjs skill wouldnt have been nearly as legendary[/QUOTE]
Kobe was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan and insane athleticism. miss me with the BS. Dude could jump out the gym with the best of them.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
This is how MJ got by guys. And MJ could do street style crossovers too. It starts at 4:15.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IErL0fs8GxU&t=103s[/url]
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=lilteapot]Kobe was 6'6 with a 6'11 wingspan and insane athleticism. miss me with the BS. Dude could jump out the gym with the best of them.[/QUOTE]
kobe had next to zero athleticism/verticality from 2004 to 2012 due to 3 major knee injuries
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]jordans shot beyond 15 feet was a flat push shot like a 6th grade female on her period.[/QUOTE]
It was flat because he got so high on his jump shot actually:oldlol: . In the 93 finals they measured MJ was in the mid thirties inches wise on his vertical on his jumpers.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
I think MJ was a maestro of the game, who reached such a high level, he began deconstructing the game into a minimalism. To the pleb eye, this looks unskilled/not flashy, but to the trained eye, it shows genius. Kareem did it as well.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=Vragrant][SIZE="5"][B]It was flat because he got so high on his jump shot [/B][/SIZE]actually:oldlol: . In the 93 finals they measured MJ was in the mid thirties inches wise on his vertical on his jumpers.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/MwOuiiTfWfWgM/giphy.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/cgkQ3zf5xbLc4/giphy.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnpleasantLegalHydra-size_restricted.gif[/IMG]
:roll:
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]kobe had next to zero athleticism/verticality from 2004 to 2012 due to 3 major knee injuries[/QUOTE]
What if I told you Kobe and LeBron were within 1 inch of the same height...
One guy shot 10% better
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
Based on Kobe fans arguments it seems they mistake flashy for skill. Kobe fans think that forcing tough shots and using more dribbles means more skilled where I think being more efficient in your shot selection and dribbling means more skilled. Maybe someone needs to put the definition of skilled on here to clarify things
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
Kobe would destroy MJ one on one tbh
Too many moves :pimp:
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=Bronbron23]I like both guys. I think mj is slightly better but I think Kobe deserves to be in the goat convo just as much as LeBron or any other great. I don't get the Kobe is more skilled statement though. What is more skilled at?
The only thing out of all the aspect of basketball that I can think of is handles and 3 point shooting. The handles one is actually interesting because it seems alot of people seem to think that better handles means more flashy handles where I would say better handles means being able to get to your spots and beat your defender while protecting the ball. Mj did this as good or probably a little bit better than Kobe.
Everything else mj was as skilled or more skilled than Kobe. Jordan was a better passer, rebounder and defender. There footwork was equal. Mid-range was equal. Jordan was a better finisher. Jordan moved better off the ball.
Am I missing something? What is Kobe more skilled at than mj other than 3 point shooting?[/QUOTE]
he's not.
People just take Mj for granted cause he made shit look easy and was more consistent.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=raprap]Kobe would destroy MJ one on one tbh
Too many moves :pimp:[/QUOTE]
I actually wouldn't argue this but how good someone is one on one dosnt mean shit in a 5 on 5 game. Especially at the NBA level
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
Kobe has better handles and more range on his jumper. They're close in terms of skill.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=Bronbron23]I actually wouldn't argue this but how good someone is one on one dosnt mean shit in a 5 on 5 game. Especially at the NBA level[/QUOTE]
but thats how both guys scored... 1 on 1's, 1 on 2's, 1 on 3's.. and sometimes 1 on 4's and 5's
kobe and jordan weren't really running around screens. being the recipient of a pick and pop or driving their teams with assists
but if you were to break it down to other aspects kobe was the assist leader for 5 world championship teams
jordan was never the bulls assist leader during their title winning seasons
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]but thats how both guys scored... 1 on 1's, 1 on 2's, 1 on 3's.. and sometimes 1 on 4's and 5's
kobe and jordan weren't really running around screens. being the recipient of a pick and pop or driving their teams with assists
but if you were to break it down to other aspects kobe was the assist leader for 5 world championship teams
jordan was never the bulls assist leader during their title winning seasons[/QUOTE]
No man u don't understand NBA basketball if you really think that. Mj was much better off the ball than Kobe. He was also much more patient in the the triangle than Kobe was. Mj was a much better fit in the triangle system than Kobe was.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
Kobe vs Mj is an old and tired argument that has been utterly debunked time and time again. Kobetards have a history of being the biggest idiots in sports in general... YES I said "SPORTS" not just basketball.
Here are some of the arguments that have been debunked throughout the years and how the bar and criteria kept evolving as these arguments kept being debunked.
Kobe is a better athlete than MJ
Kobe can jump higher
Kobe has better dunks
Kobe is quicker
Kobe played in a harder era due to zone
Kobe was doubled more
Kobe was a better player
Kobe was a better defender
Kobe was a better passer
Kobe was a better scorer
Kobe was more fundamental and more skilled
Kobe was a harder worker
Kobe had better footwork
Kobe had a better post game
Time and time again they kept moving the goal post as their arguments got debunked. He went to being a better athlete to a better dunker to being more skilled since MJ was a better athlete.
It's pitiful and sad to see people this wrong so many times, yet they keep coming back every so often. They're like cockroaches that simply won't go away, like a fly that keeps buzzing in your ear annoying everyone around.
There is absolutely nothing outside of perhaps 3pt shooting that Kobe is better at... that's about it. Some aspects he's close, one can argue that he might be a tiny bit better as a ball handler, yet that's it. Mj is better at every other aspect of the game no matter how much they try to dissect and microscope shit to fit their narrative.
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
[QUOTE=andgar923]Kobe vs Mj is an old and tired argument that has been utterly debunked time and time again. Kobetards have a history of being the biggest idiots in sports in general... YES I said "SPORTS" not just basketball.
Here are some of the arguments that have been debunked throughout the years and how the bar and criteria kept evolving as these arguments kept being debunked.
Kobe is a better athlete than MJ[B] ( nobody said this )[/B]
Kobe can jump higher [B]( nobody said this )[/B]
[B]Kobe has better in game dunks due to difficulty [/B]
Kobe is quicker [B]( nobody said this )[/B]
[B]Kobe played in a harder era due to better competition on the wing
Kobe was doubled more on the perimeter
Kobe was a better player in his prime
Kobe was nearly as good a defender
Kobe won 5 titles as his teams top playmaker. jordan won zero
Kobe was a more lethal scorer and had the same point per shot
Kobe was more fundamental and more skilled
Kobe was a harder worker
Kobe had better footwork
Kobe had a better post game[/B]
[/QUOTE]
all of these ARE true though
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Re: Why do people say Kobe is more skilled than mj?
In terms of skill, Kobe was better. He's top three most skilled players ever (Bird, Hakeem, Kobe).
MJ had a lot of skill and was fundamentally sound, especially defensively (always had the correct hand in the passing lane, stayed down below the ball, lateral quickness, high IQ and anticipation, etc) but Kobe's footwork was present even when he was as young as 19 years old.
He perfected so many moves and counters especially in the post that getting into the nuance of it is simply unfair. He could mimic Kareem's sky hook, Olajuwon's dream shake, Magic's baby hook, MJ's fade-away, and off the dribble he was trained by Shamgod and perfected Tim Hardaway's crossover.
MJ "wasted" less movement because he had the highest vertical ever recorded and got so high off of his jumpshots (30+ inch vert on his jumpshots on average) that even bigs had a hard time contesting him. And he was so quick and explosive that video tapes at the time couldn't even keep up with him.
Then when he got older, he had developed so much strength in the post that there wasn't a guard or forward alive that could push him out of position (Reggie Miller said that MJ was the 'Shaq' of shooting guards in the post). All of these things scream physical gifts to me, but he maximized what he had which isn't a knock on him.
But when it comes to having a more deadly arsenal then it's Kobe. He took MJ's moves, Hakeem's moves, Kareem's moves, Magic's moves, Bird's moves, Iverson's moves...I could go on. He was a chameleon that understood the game of basketball at a micro level.