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in 1985 and 1986 Larry Bird was outscored by Kevin McHale and on better efficiency, yet he still won Finals MVP.
Did Bird choke?
[U]1985 Finals averages[/U]
[B]McHale = 26 on 60%[/B]
Bird = 24 on 45%
[U]1986 Finals averages[/U]
[B]McHale = 26 on 57%[/B]
Bird = 24 on 48%
Do we let Bird slide too much on things like this? Or when he averaged 15 ppg on 42% playing 43 mpg in the '81 Finals one year?
It is kind of weird how Magic and Bird escape all the criticism modern players and players before them get criticized for.
The Celtics lost the '85 Finals, making that point irrelevant
FMVP isn't only about scoring.
[QUOTE=Marchesk]It is kind of weird how Magic and Bird escape all the criticism modern players and players before them get criticized for.[/QUOTE]
Very, very true. I saw one year in the Finals Magic was the 5th option on his team with like 16 ppg :lol
[QUOTE=iamgine]FMVP isn't only about scoring.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah, but is that still a bit odd? Like did everyone even know McHale punked Bird offensively each year?
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]The Celtics lost the '85 Finals, making that point irrelevant[/QUOTE]
True! Although he was still punked :lol But yes you are right
Was Bird ever outscored by Jason Terry?
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Was Bird ever outscored by Jason Terry?[/QUOTE]
Curry lol
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Was Bird ever outscored by Jason Terry?[/QUOTE]
:lol
[QUOTE=warriorfan]Was Bird ever outscored by Jason Terry?[/QUOTE]
I just said he scored 15 ppg on 42% playing 43 mpg :lol
Hell, rookie Kobe probably outscored Bird :roll:
[QUOTE=Rico2016]Well yeah, but is that still a bit odd? Like did everyone even know McHale punked Bird offensively each year?[/QUOTE]
Odd how?
[QUOTE=iamgine]Odd how?[/QUOTE]
I thought Bird was the clear cut #1 option in Boston yet he has been outscored in his prime twice by someone we barely mention.
[QUOTE=Rico2016]in 1985 and 1986 Larry Bird was outscored by Kevin McHale and on better efficiency, yet he still won Finals MVP.
Did Bird choke?
[U]1985 Finals averages[/U]
[B]McHale = 26 on 60%[/B]
Bird = 24 on 45%
[U]1986 Finals averages[/U]
[B]McHale = 26 on 57%[/B]
Bird = 24 on 48%
Do we let Bird slide too much on things like this? Or when he averaged 15 ppg on 42% playing 43 mpg in the '81 Finals one year?[/QUOTE]
what do you think fans/media/legends are thinking about right now... larry birds finals scoring
or the fact that lebron just missed the playoffs in his first season out west totally destroying his legacy
[QUOTE=Rico2016]I thought Bird was the clear cut #1 option in Boston yet he has been outscored in his prime twice by someone we barely mention.[/QUOTE]
Take away Bird and McHale scores less on worse efficiency.
[QUOTE=Rico2016]I thought Bird was the clear cut #1 option in Boston yet he has been outscored in his prime twice by someone we barely mention.[/QUOTE]
You have to differentiate scoring and offense. Just like no one thought Shawn Marion was the higher option on offense even though he scored more than Nash.
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]what do you think fans/media/legends are thinking about right now... larry birds finals scoring
or the fact that lebron just missed the playoffs in his first season out west totally destroying his legacy[/QUOTE]
:roll:
bird is one of the most overrated players in nba history, flat out terrible man to man defender
And people have this guy ahead of LeBron :roll:
Weird how basketball and math aren't remotely related huh
[QUOTE=Manny98]And people have this guy ahead of LeBron :roll:[/QUOTE]
Right? Could you imagine if LeBron is his PRIME was outscored when he won a chip in 2012, 2013, 2016? :oldlol:
People are already crying about Wade/Kyrie in 2012, 2013, 2016 when LeBron still scored more. Imagine if he scored 2 points per game LESS and on less efficiency.
But for Bird it's okay :oldlol:
And still can't get over Birds 1981 Finals we dont talk about
15 ppg on 42% playing 43 mpg
[QUOTE=Rico2016]Right? Could you imagine if LeBron is his PRIME was outscored when he won a chip in 2012, 2013, 2016? :oldlol:
People are already crying about Wade/Kyrie in 2012, 2013, 2016 when LeBron still scored more. Imagine if he scored 2 points per game LESS and on less efficiency.
But for Bird it's okay :oldlol:
And still can't get over Birds 1981 Finals we dont talk about
15 ppg on 42% playing 43 mpg[/QUOTE]
LeBron getting crucified for 17ppg on 47%
But Birds 15ppg on 42% "who cares still better than LeBron" :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Manny98]And people have this guy ahead of LeBron :roll:[/QUOTE]
:oldlol: No way Jose
3 Finals MVPs to 2
18 ppg on 49% (crucified) to 15 ppg on 42% (let it slide)
Greatest post season scorer vs outscored in prime consistently
[QUOTE=And1AllDay]:oldlol: No way Jose
3 Finals MVPs to 2
18 ppg on 49% (crucified) to 15 ppg on 42% (let it slide)
Greatest post season scorer vs outscored in prime consistently[/QUOTE]
:lol :applause:
Sorry for the L, Birdo
[QUOTE=Manny98]And people have this guy ahead of LeBron :roll:[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=Rico2016]I thought Bird was the clear cut #1 option in Boston yet he has been outscored in his prime twice by someone we barely mention.[/QUOTE]
Bird brought more to the game than just scoring. In 81 he averaged 15,3 rebounds and 7 assists per game. His team needed rebounding vs Moses Malone. In 86 he outrebounded McHale and Bird had 9.5 assists to Mchale's 1.7 assists. It is FMVP not finals scoring leader.
Why is this statnerd talking 80s ball? Your dad wasn't even born yet fakkit.
not in my top 10.
[QUOTE=kennethgriffen]what do you think fans/media/legends are thinking about right now... larry birds finals scoring
or the fact that lebron just missed the playoffs in his first season out west totally destroying his legacy[/QUOTE]
lol...not all fans and former NBA player are obsessed with Bran as you are, lad. Stop projecting your obsessive adulation onto others.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]lol...not all fans and former NBA player are obsessed with Bran as you are, lad. Stop projecting your obsessive adulation onto others.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
Birds 86 finals no.s of 24ppg, 9.7rpg, 9.5apg, and 2.7spg>Mchale''s 25.8, 8.5, 1.7 and 0.8
I'm amazed anyone managed to score 20ppg next to Mchale. Once he got it on the block odds were good a shot was going up.
How many of McHale's pts were off Bird assists ?
As opposed to vice versa?
Bird's assists and even hockey assists penetrated and collapsed defenses more than any slasher.
Bird's STEALS and deflections are legendary.
Unreal for someone with slow feet to murder passing lanes.
Cause his eyes/mind/hands were lightning quick.
His impact plays and clutch plays are undeniable.
Dudes don't even know this dude led the league in steals.
And his reboudning was shockingly great for not being able to jump.
At all.
That dude did more with less his entire life.:rockon:
Stop hating cause he's an ugly as sin redneck.
This dude grew up dirt poor in a shack.
Drunk pops too stubborn to ever even apply for a damn EBT card.
He literally starved cause his dad was a suicidal drunk.
No soup kitchens in the mi9ddle of nowhere.
Give it up for the man and his story.
[QUOTE=Marchesk]It is kind of weird how Magic and Bird escape all the criticism modern players and players before them get criticized for.[/QUOTE]
Not to me it isn't.
20 years before them Bill Russell was one of the gold standards for GOAT caliber basketball ability. Of course it was controversial, as guys like Baylor Robertson or West were better all-around and a guy like Wilt was way way more offensively/statistically dominant but Russell always had his case due to winning so much and defensive focus that to many people well into the 1980's scoring points wasn't considered some sort of necessity to be considered the best player on your team.
It wasn't until MJ in the 1990's that points and winning combined were even a heralded thing really. Most fans of the game before that recognized all the OTHER things that can happen on a basketball floor that can make a player effective, impactfull or great.
I feel like the game, and media outlets advertising it as time has progressed has tried to promote scoring points more and more as the end all be all facet of the game that makes or breaks your greatness. It's not all about points although the way they are shaping the rules in the modern expression of the game it sure does seem like they really want it to be that way. Defense is basically banned in this era it's the weakest defensive era as far as rules favoring offense and castrating defenses go that has ever been played.
[QUOTE=Phoenix]I'm amazed anyone managed to score 20ppg next to Mchale. Once he got it on the block odds were good a shot was going up.[/QUOTE]
Well the easy solution to that is - since he's not a ball handler just choose not to give it to him unless you don't want to see it again you don't need to drop it off to him if you don't want to
[QUOTE=hiphopanonymous]Well the easy solution to that is - since he's not a ball handler just choose not to give it to him unless you don't want to see it again you don't need to drop it off to him if you don't want to[/QUOTE]
Obviously it wouldn't make sense to not take advantage of Mchale's scoring prowess down low. Those Celtics aren't better off with less scoring from Mchale. The somewhat facetious point I was making is that he had the name 'black hole' for a reason.