Its amazing how much talent can be hidden by role.

I was watching some clips of Tmac in Toronto....which got me watching clips of Harden in OKC...has me thinking of Drazen on Portland. A lot of these situations...

18 days after Harden was a 6th man on OKC hes on the Rockets. 60 days after hes a 6th man hes in camp on the rockets. 3 months and some days from being a backup this is his first game as a Rocket:


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvcMLwVfBk[/url]



37/12/6. Clearly hes the same human he was 90 days earlier. Nobody improves that much that quickly. But....if they KNEW he was Houston Harden you feel like they would have paid up right?

Hes a franchise player they chose to offer 14 million a season to....and Houston offered 16. He says the decision was purely financial and with an equal offer hed have stayed. Even as a 6th man. The Rockets paid him what would have been the 22nd most money per season of the 2016 free agency period just behind Fournier and Biyombo. They must have known the cap spike was coming with the TV deal being worked on. Guess they just didnt think hed be what he was.

What I wonder is this....

How is it possible to hide that much talent? And I dont mean just Harden. All the rest. Tmac too.

Guys have been landing on new teams and going from good to first ballot hall of famer for decades and it makes me wonder how the team that had them didnt know to give them the ball and get out of the way.

The Raptors knew Tmac was great to be clear. So did other teams. This was Miamis pitch to him btw....




[QUOTE]

I don't think it's hidden...it's just inept coaches/management. We see enough questionable decision making from these so-called professionals that it must be that.

Thing about Harden though..how did the Rockets, Adidas, and even Kobe know he'd be this good?

Rockets and Adidas gave him $200 million deals when he was just another top 10ish guy.

[url]https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-kobe-bryant-would-build-his-team-around-james-harden/2015/02/24/[/url]

2015...

This is exactly why drive and kick every single play is not optimal.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I was watching some clips of Tmac in Toronto....which got me watching clips of Harden in OKC...has me thinking of Drazen on Portland. A lot of these situations...

18 days after Harden was a 6th man on OKC hes on the Rockets. 60 days after hes a 6th man hes in camp on the rockets. 3 months and some days from being a backup this is his first game as a Rocket:


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvcMLwVfBk[/url]



37/12/6. Clearly hes the same human he was 90 days earlier. Nobody improves that much that quickly. But....if they KNEW he was Houston Harden you feel like they would have paid up right?

Hes a franchise player they chose to offer 14 million a season to....and Houston offered 16. He says the decision was purely financial and with an equal offer hed have stayed. Even as a 6th man. The Rockets paid him what would have been the 22nd most money per season of the 2016 free agency period just behind Fournier and Biyombo. They must have known the cap spike was coming with the TV deal being worked on. Guess they just didnt think hed be what he was.[/QUOTE]

I think Harden himself didn't know how good he would be in a green light situation.

[QUOTE]
What I wonder is this....

How is it possible to hide that much talent? And I dont mean just Harden. All the rest. Tmac too.

Guys have been landing on new teams and going from good to first ballot hall of famer for decades and it makes me wonder how the team that had them didnt know to give them the ball and get out of the way.

The Raptors knew Tmac was great to be clear. So did other teams. This was Miamis pitch to him btw....


So im not saying he came out nowhere. Im saying...when you know hes this talented...

Why was he taking 12 shots a game and off the bench for half the season?

Yes I know he didnt get along with the coach....but people around him daily? The GM and decision makers...how do they not see all this talent going to waste and fire the coach early and get someone to take advantage? VC and Tmac should have been starting together taking 18-20 shots a game each all year. He wasnt starting till March when he was taking 14 shots a game in 38 minutes so he wasnt featured then either. Day one in Orlando hes one of the best players of all time sure to go to the HOF if healthy(turns out he went without being healthy).

Its just amazing to me the talent you can keep under wraps with all these people around 24/7.

For all we know Harrell on the Clippers could be one of the GOATs waiting for someone to notice. Happens to perfectly good coaches. Rick Adleman didnt know Drazen was Drazen. He knew he could play...but he didnt know what he had really. The Nets Drazen....once he was known? Adleman would have found him minutes somehow in Portland. You would figure practice would make it clear hes too good to bench.

But it doesnt.

There is some 11ppg good player right now who if he gets the right landing spot is gonna be a big name till 2028.....and make someone look like an idiot. There always is.

So tell me....who do you think it might be?

Who is the "How did they not know what they had?" guy coming out next? Im not asking most improved player. Most of them are just young guys on the same team growing into their games. Im wondering who the next guy is who is gonna go from "OK...hes pretty good" to superstar the moment some team lets him go for it.

Think Oladipo style.

Who should I be paying extra attention to now?[/QUOTE]

But all those guys were young, they were 2 or 3 years in the NBA when they switched roles and became great. Is there a case of a 27 yo doing the same?

Those are the players to look for. Guys 2 or 3 years in with the tools, but not the right role.

Monte Morris is someone to keep an eye on imo.

Then there's obvious choices like Jay Tatum who would probably shine a lot brighter if BOS didn't have so many months to feed

this is why stats is largely meaningless for evaluation in basketball, it's all contextual

eyetest is the only thing that can discern real skill

A good example of someone who was found by his team before it was too late...

[B][I]Pascal Siakam.
[/I][/B]Bench Guy last year, now he is arguably the 3rd most important player on a 55 win contender. (Maybe 60 if they get hot.)

Heck, you could say that he's so good that Leonard leaving might not even been a doomsday scenario after all.

Anyway,
If we want to find the next guy I think the safest best is to go to teams that win a lot. Harden was a 6th man on a team 3 wins away from an NBA championship...

But that state of mind also made the Mavs give Barnes a MAX deal. (And he didn't pan out.)

Hmmmmm....
He's not exactly underrated anymore, but what if you take Sabonis out of the Pacer's bench and give him 34 mins a night plus 17-18 shots a game?

Do you get 22/12 out of him?

A lot of players will look better statistically with more touches. Is that surprising some people??

I hate the

[QUOTE=eliteballer]I don't think it's hidden...it's just inept coaches/management. We see enough questionable decision making from these so-called professionals that it must be that.

Thing about Harden though..how did the Rockets, Adidas, and even Kobe know he'd be this good?

Rockets and Adidas gave him $200 million deals when he was just another top 10ish guy.

[url]https://www.lakersnation.com/lakers-news-kobe-bryant-would-build-his-team-around-james-harden/2015/02/24/[/url]

2015...[/QUOTE]

Kobe/Harden lockout league battle


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWp7T6E8ug8[/url]


Thats the summer BEFORE his finals season in OKC.

Apparently Kobe told all the young guys he wanted someone to go at him and Harden spoke up and said hed take him. This is coming off a 12ppg 43% shooting season he started 5 games of.

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]A lot of players will look better statistically with more touches. Is that surprising some people??

I hate the “this guy needs his own team” stuff. What’s wrong with playing within a team concept? If a guy’s only value is to shoot in volume, and his whole game is compromised by playing with a similar player, he’s probably not as good as nike and gatorade make him out to be.[/QUOTE]


In many cases there are guys on teams that need exactly what the player not given a shot provides to his new team.

For Toronto...they needed someone other than Vince. This was back when the Lakers were the only team with 2 superstars. Closest anyone else came was Walker/Pierce and washed up Drob with Duncan. Dirk wasnt there yet and Finley never really was. Peja and Cwebb? If you had 04 Peja and prime Webber sure. But you didnt. Glenn was nice. He wasnt Ray Allen nice.

Raptors had a legit star duo but didnt see one of them for who he was. Like I said...you dont change that much in a couple months. They needed a second scorer...had a rising hall of famer....and had him in shackles.

[QUOTE=LostCause]Monte Morris is someone to keep an eye on imo.

Then there's obvious choices like Jay Tatum who would probably shine a lot brighter if BOS didn't have so many months to feed[/QUOTE]
Not just Tatum. Jaylen Brown is currently being oppressed.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]I was watching some clips of Tmac in Toronto....which got me watching clips of Harden in OKC...has me thinking of Drazen on Portland. A lot of these situations...

18 days after Harden was a 6th man on OKC hes on the Rockets. 60 days after hes a 6th man hes in camp on the rockets. 3 months and some days from being a backup this is his first game as a Rocket:


[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvcMLwVfBk[/url]



37/12/6. Clearly hes the same human he was 90 days earlier. Nobody improves that much that quickly. But....if they KNEW he was Houston Harden you feel like they would have paid up right?

Hes a franchise player they chose to offer 14 million a season to....and Houston offered 16. He says the decision was purely financial and with an equal offer hed have stayed. Even as a 6th man. The Rockets paid him what would have been the 22nd most money per season of the 2016 free agency period just behind Fournier and Biyombo. They must have known the cap spike was coming with the TV deal being worked on. Guess they just didnt think hed be what he was.

What I wonder is this....

How is it possible to hide that much talent? And I dont mean just Harden. All the rest. Tmac too.

Guys have been landing on new teams and going from good to first ballot hall of famer for decades and it makes me wonder how the team that had them didnt know to give them the ball and get out of the way.

The Raptors knew Tmac was great to be clear. So did other teams. This was Miamis pitch to him btw....







So im not saying he came out nowhere. Im saying...when you know hes this talented...

Why was he taking 12 shots a game and off the bench for half the season?

Yes I know he didnt get along with the coach....but people around him daily? The GM and decision makers...how do they not see all this talent going to waste and fire the coach early and get someone to take advantage? VC and Tmac should have been starting together taking 18-20 shots a game each all year. He wasnt starting till March when he was taking 14 shots a game in 38 minutes so he wasnt featured then either. Day one in Orlando hes one of the best players of all time sure to go to the HOF if healthy(turns out he went without being healthy).

Its just amazing to me the talent you can keep under wraps with all these people around 24/7.

For all we know Harrell on the Clippers could be one of the GOATs waiting for someone to notice. Happens to perfectly good coaches. Rick Adleman didnt know Drazen was Drazen. He knew he could play...but he didnt know what he had really. The Nets Drazen....once he was known? Adleman would have found him minutes somehow in Portland. You would figure practice would make it clear hes too good to bench.

But it doesnt.

There is some 11ppg good player right now who if he gets the right landing spot is gonna be a big name till 2028.....and make someone look like an idiot. There always is.

So tell me....who do you think it might be?

Who is the "How did they not know what they had?" guy coming out next? Im not asking most improved player. Most of them are just young guys on the same team growing into their games. Im wondering who the next guy is who is gonna go from "OK...hes pretty good" to superstar the moment some team lets him go for it.

Think Oladipo style.

Who should I be paying extra attention to now?[/QUOTE]

Tatum needs his whole team so he can chuck. The dude is better than kuzma and Mitchell but kyrie/brad are holding him back. Let him take 18-20 shots a game

Funny that Tmac was the first name you mention because he"s literally the player I thought of when I sae the thread title. My final memories of Tmac is Toronto was him showing more poise than Vince against the Knicks in the playoffs( the first for both of course). Then he ends up going to Orlando but all the emphasis was on Grant Hill who was at the peak of his powers. Then the ankle injury happened....and Tmac is suddenly *the man*. From 15ppg up and coming talent to 27/6/5 or whatever his 01 averages were( too lazy to google them atm). THAT leap I did not see coming at the time.

Steve Nash kinda comes to mind.

[QUOTE=LostCause]Monte Morris is someone to keep an eye on imo.

Then there's obvious choices like Jay Tatum who would probably shine a lot brighter if BOS didn't have so many months to feed[/QUOTE]

Role or not, Tatum just hasn't been that good this season. He's settled for a lot of bad shots all season long.

Gilbert Arenas was one of these guys.