The Warriors are so much better at moving the ball without Durant in the lineup

It's actually pathetic that people still think Durant is their best player and the best player in the world.

1 on 1 basketball isn't... 5 on 5 basketball. It's a different thing. There are some overlaps, but not that much. Team dynamics are so much more complex than 1 on 1 play, it's hard to even articulate.

People are dumb. Most of you are dumb.

I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.[/QUOTE]

Probably the only two that weren't GSW fans long before Durant, it's true, lol.

Cheers.

as you said. It's mostly people who focus on scoring and mainly iso scoring who thought that about durant. Some people posted how kd was putting up like 60ts% in the playoffs with curry out on great volume and volume went down when curry came in. What they failed to mention is it went up to 70ts% when he was in. the attention he gets just from being on the court helps a lot.

He's easily the best player on the team. The warriors look just as good without him only because the teams there facing arnt defending the screens well. When a team does that's when warriors will need kd and his iso capabilities. Kd with warriors and Kyrie with Celtics are very similar. Theyre both the best players on there teams but neither is really needed until the finals

Durant is the best ISO player alive.

Curry is the best system alive. Like, an entire system. Everyone eats and a few get catapulted into star status.

The whole KD-is-carrying-GS talk from earlier in the playoffs looks so dumb now. GS is still the best team in the league without him. Obviously, better with him, but his presence is just overkill.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23]He's easily the best player on the team. The warriors look just as good without him only because the teams there facing arnt defending the screens well. When a team does that's when warriors will need kd and his iso capabilities. Kd with warriors and Kyrie with Celtics are very similar. Theyre both the best players on there teams but neither is really needed until the finals[/QUOTE]

No... no he's not "easily the best player on the team."

The NBA isn't a 1 on 1 contest. Eat shit.

[QUOTE=stalkerforlife]Durant is the best ISO player alive.[/QUOTE]

That's probably true. In fact, I'd say it is. But that's not 5 on 5 basketball. The only time a team NEEDS that is when an entire offense has broken down due to nerves or amazing defense on the other side... which those things don't happen THAT often.

[QUOTE=Indian guy]The whole KD-is-carrying-GS talk from earlier in the playoffs looks so dumb now. GS is still the best team in the league without him. Obviously, better with him, but his presence is just overkill.[/QUOTE]

This.

KD might be the best player...he might be better than Curry...all reasonable thoughts...etc.

However, we can we all just bury the narrative that KD was "carrying" the Warriors all this time?

Please, can we just all retire that?

They are like 30-1 without KD and with Steph now in the last 31 games. Shit is over...KD stans ****ing lost that argument no matter what happens the rest of the way.

Warriors are a title contending team without him. And he's a ****ing delusional bitch for joining them.

[QUOTE=Ben Simmons 25]No... no he's not "easily the best player on the team."

The NBA isn't a 1 on 1 contest. Eat shit.[/QUOTE]
Yes he is. The warriors system works fine without him with there movement, screens and shooting capabilities but kd is definitely the best player. They're gonna need him against the bucks. You'll See

Durant is only needed when they play a dynamic 1-2 punch like LeBron-Kyrie. You saw what Durant-Westbrook did to this team in 2016 as well. Without Durant they move the ball much better, but at the same time they only have Curry that can create his own shot. I believe this became a problem when they played teams like OKC & Cleveland in the past.

The thing is in today's NBA, those teams with a dynamic 1-2 punch don't exist anymore so Durant isn't needed as much.

real shocker mate...

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This.

KD might be the best player...he might be better than Curry...all reasonable thoughts...etc.[/QUOTE]

Durant is a better defender and a better 1 on 1 player.

But basketball is 5 on 5. And Curry is a LOT better at that. If you want a team... you select Curry. If you already have a team, go with Durant.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]This.

KD might be the best player...he might be better than Curry...all reasonable thoughts...etc.

However, we can we all just bury the narrative that KD was "carrying" the Warriors all this time?

Please, can we just all retire that?

They are like 30-1 without KD and with Steph now in the last 31 games. Shit is over...KD stans ****ing lost that argument no matter what happens the rest of the way.

Warriors are a title contending team without him. And he's a ****ing delusional bitch for joining them.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either

[QUOTE=elementally morale]Durant is a better defender and a better 1 on 1 player.

But basketball is 5 on 5. And Curry is a LOT better at that. If you want a team... you select Curry. If you already have a team, go with Durant.[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE=Bronbron23]I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either[/QUOTE]

Chris Paul balled out in that game 6 and they still lost. I don't care what anyone says, that one game vs Houston alone should tell you how dangerous this team is without KD.

How do you explain Curry being the best player, he has 0 points against the 2nd best team in the league at halftime and the game is tied. Sure he has a big impact, it's the Curry system. But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.

[QUOTE=imdaman99]How do you explain Curry being the best player, he has 0 points against the 2nd best team in the league at halftime and the game is tied. Sure he has a big impact, it's the Curry system. But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.[/QUOTE]

It's the same thing. Lol.

"Bill Russell wasn't the GOAT... Wilt was better in the same era even!" said every ignorant NBA fan ever that doesn't understand team dynamics.

[QUOTE=imdaman99] But impact does not mean you're the best player. It just means you're the most important player.[/QUOTE]


Huh?

You play to win the game. If you are the most impactful and most important... then you are the best.

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the [B]two people[/B] here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.[/QUOTE]

Count me as 3rd person who believes Curry has been best player in the NBA since 2015. The problem is Curry is too soft to realize he has racist enemies and needs a tough team like Zach Randolph/Tony Allen Grizzlies to prevent teams from intentionally injuring his teammates. [URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13676580&postcount=8"]link[/URL]

[QUOTE=Ben Simmons 25]It's the same thing. Lol.

"Bill Russell wasn't the GOAT... Wilt was better in the same era even!" said every ignorant NBA fan ever that doesn't understand team dynamics.[/QUOTE]
If you switched out Bill and Wilt, how many rings does Bill end up with? Does Wilt get more?

[QUOTE=imdaman99]If you switched out Bill and Wilt, how many rings does Bill end up with? Does Wilt get more?[/QUOTE]

Impossible to say but Wilt definitely doesn't get more than Bill. No way.

"But his teammates doe!"

I would say most of the time, throughout NBA history, that's a true statement.

Not in the case of Bill Russell. He won in high school, he won in the NCAA, and he won 11/13 in the NBA. That's more than just "lucky career with great teammates." They went to shit the moment he retired.


His defense and ball sharing was basically the equivalent of what we see today out of Steph, except Steph does it on offense.

I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens on the defensive end, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.

[QUOTE=bdonovan]I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens, helping on D, not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires), etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.[/QUOTE]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

To be honest though, these guys could watch an entire season of Warriors basketball and still not pick up on those types of things. So... yeah.

[QUOTE=bdonovan]I spent the last year and a half documenting examples from Warriors games on this board where Durant did not rotate correctly, refused to guard certain offensive players, allowed himself to be screened off a play, conserved energy on defense, did not provide help defense, etc.

Those who aren't Warriors fans and don't watch every game are led astray by ESPN highlight reels.

When Durant was injured Game 5, I said on these boards it wouldn't make a difference given that his deficiencies in aspects of team defense (and team offense) offset his individual offense greatness. I was loudly contradicted by many, but GSW went on to beat HOU at their home where they had beaten GSW in 2 prior games in the series (with Durant). The result did not surprise me given what I've observed for the last two years in terms of the net effect Durant has on the Warriors.

Mark Jackson may strenuously disagree but Mark Jackson is occasionally wrong. Bias can affect anyone even former players (in this case bias towards exceptional individual offense versus other less-sexy aspects of the game).

To understand Durant's full impact, you have to watch off the ball, esp. on the defensive side to know why we're seeing the Warriors coast w/out him. See the Portland game today. It was won by exceptional defense; team defense. The Warriors kept Portland to 36% FG. All those little things- switching, fighting through screens on the defensive end, helping on D, [B]not leaving your man to get a high profile block (that usually backfires)[/B], etc. add up. They are almost imperceptible individually but collectively are game-changing.

In this environment, I forgive fans for being led astray because even so-called experts (who btw also do not watch enough Warriors games, because they have to follow every team in the league) have drank the Kool-Aid. It's unfortunate it took a Durant injury in the postseason for at least some though to recognize how capable GSW are, with or without KD.[/QUOTE]

qft. love the bolded part. it also happens when guys gamble for a steal.

@ OP, can you name some players you'd think the Warriors would be better off with in place of Durant?

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I agree with you on this one. But you know that. We are the two people here who are not GSW fans and are saying Curry has been the best player in the NBA the last 3 or 4 years.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit, the levels of narcism. :roll: Everyone with half a brain has been saying this for a long while. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard or you might hurt yourself.

[QUOTE=Bronbron23]I'm not a kd fan but how have they lost no matter what happens now? With kd they'd beat the bucks. Without him they'll lose. Beating the rockets with a washed up Chris Paul isn't that impressive. Beating the blazers isn't either[/QUOTE]

Because not one person is arguing that they are better without him. That is why.

And, the Warriors pre-KD...there wasn't a gaping hole in the middle of the team like there is now without him. They had Barnes...and were always going to improve that spot.

It wasn't KD or nothing.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. A team going 29-1 without Durant and potentially making the finals...apparently doesn't matter. Like...what?

And we are supposed to give Durant a bunch of credit for winning titles on a team that is about as good as anyone else in the league without him? And already proved they could win a title and set the wins record with Harrison Barnes instead of him??????

I just...I can't believe that we have to explain this shit to people. Its all happened less than 5 years ago. It is happening right now...people need to stop pretending that Klay/Curry/Green/Iggy isn't probably the best top 4 in the league. Yes, they lack depth, but it is still an elite roster capable of beating any team...and they continue to prove it night in night out with KD.

Again...how are we having this debate when a team is ****ing 29-1 without KD? It is over for KD stans...they lost. Doesn't matter if the Blazers come back...etc. No team should be capable of losing their "best player" and going 29-1...and win big road playoff elimination games as well.

It was stupid and unfair when KD joined...and nothing has changed. Despite what he and his moronic fan base claim.

I've never seen someone so consistently wrong always be so adamant on their own opinion lol.

As I've said before, KD is the worst's best insurance policy. Their record without him the past 3 years is a damning argument against the idea that he is carrying them.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Because not one person is arguing that they are better without him. That is why.

And, the Warriors pre-KD...there wasn't a gaping hole in the middle of the team like there is now without him. They had Barnes...and were always going to improve that spot.

It wasn't KD or nothing.

Your post is exactly what I'm talking about. A team going 29-1 without Durant and potentially making the finals...apparently doesn't matter. Like...what?

And we are supposed to give Durant a bunch of credit for winning titles on a team that is about as good as anyone else in the league without him? And already proved they could win a title and set the wins record with Harrison Barnes instead of him??????

I just...I can't believe that we have to explain this shit to people. Its all happened less than 5 years ago. It is happening right now...people need to stop pretending that Klay/Curry/Green/Iggy isn't probably the best top 4 in the league. Yes, they lack depth, but it is still an elite roster capable of beating any team...and they continue to prove it night in night out with KD.

Again...how are we having this debate when a team is ****ing 29-1 without KD? It is over for KD stans...they lost. Doesn't matter if the Blazers come back...etc. No team should be capable of losing their "best player" and going 29-1...and win big road playoff elimination games as well.

It was stupid and unfair when KD joined...and nothing has changed. Despite what he and his moronic fan base claim.[/QUOTE]

Do the Warriors beat the bucks or raptors without KD? Yes or no? Are Steph, Klay, and Dray enough? Do they have anyone to make Kawhi or Giannis work defensively?

And what do you mean by "it doesn't matter if the Blazers come back"? You insinuating that if the Blazers beat the Warriors, it won't be because they didn't have KD?

[QUOTE=Bankaii]I've never seen someone so consistently wrong always be so adamant on their own opinion lol.[/QUOTE]

You're a dumb fa[COLOR="Black"]g[/COLOR]got.

If you don't think the Warriors play more as a team and move the ball more without KD, you LITERALLY have not watched a SINGLE Warriors game. Not one. NOT ONE!!!

Not in anything other than a coma induced brain dead state, anyways.

Not a single ****ing game.

Peep how everyone is looking to discredit KD. It's fascinating. Make matters worse, it's the same people who were discrediting Curry for not winning FMVP. If the Warriors were sent home last series, believe me, there wouldnt be this weird coalition of LeBron and Curry stans joining forces to shit on KD.

I vividly remember them playing team ball and losing in dramatic fashion in 2016. No one was giving them credit for how well they "moved the ball" after that finals loss.

Now they finally get a go to player that can operate from the mid-post, see the court, go into a triple threat, absorb contract, and take what the defense gives him, but it's messed up because he "holds the ball" too much over the course of a game. Think about how stupid this shit sounds.

[QUOTE=34-24 Footwork]Peep how everyone is looking to discredit KD. It's fascinating. Make matters worse, it's the same people who were discrediting Curry for not winning FMVP. If the Warriors were sent home last series, believe me, there wouldnt be this weird coalition of LeBron and Curry stans joining forces to shit on KD.

I vividly remember them playing team ball and losing in dramatic fashion in 2016. No one was giving them credit for how well they "moved the ball" after that finals loss.

Now they finally get a go to player that can operate from the mid-post, see the court, go into a triple threat, absorb contract, and take what the defense gives him, but it's messed up because he "holds the ball" too much over the course of a game. Think about how stupid this shit sounds.[/QUOTE]

They lost in 2016 because of Draymond's suspension. On top of losing a game, he then came back and played completely passively and shellshocked in game 6 offering virtually nothing other than a hot body on the court. He came back in game 7, but the entire team was shaken at that point.

You know it, and I know it.

The Cavs should have won in 2015, and the Warriors should have won in 2016.

Anyone paying attention and honest about it should be able to tell you this.

You're the type to knock LeBron for dominating the ball and then credit KD for doing it... even though LeBron looks to get people more involved than KD does. KD is primarily looking to score.

You're a hypocrite, you're ignorant, and you should never post again. Ever.

The Warriors won 73 games without him. If he's so incredibly amazing and lifts teams to such great heights, they should have won that many games again AT LEAST. They didn't. Because he's a ball stopper. A really great one. But he is a ball stopper.

As entertaining as it is to see GS "move the ball" the entire game, we've only seen it work toward a ring once against a banged up 2015 Western Conference playoffs and against a volume shooting LeBron :lol

73 wins from " beautilful ball movement" but took the L. Turns out that having your barely-able dribbling PF whipping backdoor passes to Curry or Klay down the stretch of close, physical games in the finals isn't a recipe for success.

You know what has been? Kevin Durant.

Cant wait til the Warriors get rid of KD and plug in another guy like Barnes so that the defense can have ANOTHER player on the Warriors who they don't have to guard instead of just Draymond.

I'm sure Curry and Klay LOVE the idea of having more athletic defenders play free safety, roam the passing lanes to pick off passes, and grab and hold them in their baseline screens. With Klay and Curry being the only guys on the court who can shoot for the Warriors, I'm sure the league STILL hasn't caught up with how to guard them effectively over a course of 7 games.

Why can't we just go back to 2016 when all was well with the Warriors?

They REALLY convinced y'all that the 73-win season was a championship season. Lol

It's almost like Westbrook wasn't the only problem in Okc. I'm stunned.

Durant loves isoball to the detriment of his teammates. Always has.

I'm glad the Warriors front office isn't as stupid as some of the fans :lol :lol

They should just move Jerebko, Lee, or the other G-League guy to take KD's spot so they can have better ball movement in the future :lol

This thread is gold.

Been saying since KD joined GS that they would likely win the championship without him. Now it's coming to fruition. :applause:

Warriors will be fine when Durant leaves. As long as they keep Klay, Curry and Green as a core that's still a three all-star core and they can add more substantial pieces than what they have now minus Cousins and Durant. Kerr has that team in the right mindset when they play. It also helps when you have the greatest shooter of all time along with a Top 3 shooter of all time when his career is done in Klay.