Other than MJ winning with no all-stars twice, is Hakeem the next in line for winning it all with the least help?
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Other than MJ winning with no all-stars twice, is Hakeem the next in line for winning it all with the least help?
:kobe:
Meltdown :lol
Pippen. 6 rings with no one notable on any of his rosters except maybe Rodman in 96.
[QUOTE=FKAri]Pippen. 6 rings with no one notable on any of his rosters except maybe Rodman in 96.[/QUOTE]
:lebronamazed:
Bulls + Jordan = championship
Bulls without Jordan = 55 wins
Cavs + LeBron = championship
Cavs without LeBron = 19 wins
:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=LBJFTW]Other than MJ winning with no all-stars twice, is Hakeem the next in line for winning it all with the least help?[/QUOTE]
Only MJ/Kobe won multiple rings with 1 all-star teammate, except Shaq (who had Kobe), and Hakeem (when MJ was out of the league)
So the Jordan "fornat" and skillset wins rings with the least help - we have 8 rings that were won with 1 all-star teammate as of proof... :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=FireDavidKahn]Bulls + Jordan = championship
Bulls without Jordan = 55 wins
Cavs + LeBron = championship
Cavs without LeBron = 19 wins
:confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
That 55 win team was an entirely differnent team.
[QUOTE=FireDavidKahn]
Cavs + LeBron = championship
Cavs without LeBron = 19 wins
[/QUOTE]
Lebron's teammates play bad with or without him because he reduces everyone to spot-up shooters - weak teams let 1 guy dribble most of the time, so the team collapses without that guy.. Otoh, dynasty teams play great basketball with or without their star because they move the ball instead of having 1 guy dribble it all the time.. great teams develop a great way to play [I]basketball[/I], which exists with or without the star
Otoh, similar to other ball-dominators like Westbrook and Harden, lebron's teams play [I]bad basketball[/I].... people simply ignored it because he had super-teams that were winning the LEast every year..
[QUOTE=FireDavidKahn]
Bulls + Jordan = championship
Bulls without Jordan = 55 wins
[/QUOTE]
the bulls won 47 games and would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without mj's 33/8/8 in 1989.. that same lottery cast from 89' three-peated from 91-93' - so the 94' Bulls were a lottery cast that had developed the know-how, teamwork and goat brand required of all dynasties.. they managed off teamwork, not talent.
.
LeBron won in 2013 with 15ppg Wade and 12ppg Bosh
No one else won with this low scoring help
Pippen elevated Mike Jordan from 96 to 98 after MJ suffered a second round loss
So probably Pippen. especially since he lost Pete Myers after 94 and had to replace him with Mike Jordan.
Lebron in 2013 and of course 2016 (no all stars, beat 73 win team, lead both teams in all major categories).
[QUOTE=Manny98]LeBron won in 2013 with 15ppg Wade and 12ppg Bosh
No one else won with this low scoring help[/QUOTE]
I think youre forgeting someone...
[QUOTE=Objectivity]I think youre forgeting someone...[/QUOTE]
No player won with as low scoring second and third options as LeBron did in 2013 that is a fact
Ray Allen hit one shot whoopee!
How many did he score in game 7 of the finals?
I rest my case
[QUOTE=Manny98]No player won with as low scoring second and third options as LeBron did in 2013 that is a fact
Ray Allen hit one shot whoopee!
How many did he score in game 7 of the finals?
I rest my case[/QUOTE]
How far do they go in 2013 if not for Ray Allen?
[QUOTE=Manny98]LeBron won in 2013 with 15ppg Wade and 12ppg Bosh
No one else won with this low scoring help[/QUOTE]
Uh oh :eek:
[QUOTE=Objectivity]How far do they go in 2013 if not for Ray Allen?[/QUOTE]
Ray Allen 10ppg is easily replaceable so the Heat still win
[QUOTE=Manny98]No player won with as low scoring second and third options as LeBron did in 2013 that is a fact
Ray Allen hit one shot whoopee!
How many did he score in game 7 of the finals?
I rest my case[/QUOTE]
Wade averaged 20/4/5 on 48% in the 2013 Finals, which was pretty much Pippen's standard
Otoh, Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games.... And his 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games, thus needing Ray to force game 7
He was also a net negative for the entire series
Lebron was actually horrible in the 2013 Finals
[QUOTE=3ball]Wade averaged 20/5/5 in the 2013 Finals, which was Pippen's standard
Otoh, Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games.... And his 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games, thus needing Ray to force game 7
He was also a net negative for the entire series
Lebron was actually horrible in the 2013 Finals[/QUOTE]
:yaohappy:
GOT HIS ASS
:hammertime: :hammertime:
Hakeem
Dirk
LeBron 2016
relative to opposition, '16 Bron?
Love injured, so he basically beat 3-all stars with 1 and no 6th man level beyond that ala Iggy?
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]relative to opposition, '16 Bron?
Love injured, so he basically beat 3-all stars with 1 and no 6th man level beyond that ala Iggy?[/QUOTE]
Kyrie wasn't an all-star :D
LeGOAT
:hammertime:
[QUOTE=Sakkreth]Hakeem
Dirk
LeBron 2016[/QUOTE]
How did he even make the finals with so little help in 2016 :biggums:
THE GOAT STANDARD :rockon:
[QUOTE=FKAri]Kyrie wasn't an all-star :D
LeGOAT
:hammertime:[/QUOTE]
:djparty
[QUOTE=FKAri]Kyrie wasn't an all-star :D
LeGOAT
:hammertime:[/QUOTE]
but he kinda was, you know
lets give him that
[QUOTE=3ball]Wade averaged 20/4/5 on 48% in the 2013 Finals, which was pretty much Pippen's standard
Otoh, Lebron averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games.... And his 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games, thus needing Ray to force game 7
He was also a net negative for the entire series
Lebron was actually horrible in the 2013 Finals[/QUOTE]
Ok so Wade put up Pippens numbers offensively with much worse defense
And Bosh averaged 11ppg and scored 0 points in game 7
Even if you want to cherrypick one series LeBron still won with less help than anyone in 2013 :applause:
hakeems lack of help is extremely overstated... he beat a knicks team that featured ewing and john starks, which was no more talented than his own team in '94.
And then in '95 he had a prime clyde drexler... all NBA player and multiple time MVP candidate going off in those playoffs with him. But people act like he had bums.
Clyde Drexler had two top 5 MVP finishes and was better than Pau Gasol, but people NEVER mention him in that title run.
[QUOTE=FKAri]Kyrie wasn't an all-star :D
LeGOAT
:hammertime:[/QUOTE]
It's funny because in 1989, mj actually DID beat a 3 all-star team with zero all-stars (a bunch of young pups)
Btw, kyrie only missed the 16' all-star game due to injury, while 91' Pippen played all 82 games but missed the all-star team - so MJ legitimately won with no-all-stars in 91', whereas lebron had 2 perennial all-star teammates in 16'
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]but he kinda was, you know
lets give him that[/QUOTE]
You can't just GIVE people all-star selections. Well, I guess they did kinda do that with MJ in 03 and they even got mad at Vince for not being on board with the rig.
LeGOAT
:hammertime:
[QUOTE=Manny98]Ok so Wade put up Pippens numbers offensively with much worse defense
And Bosh averaged 11ppg and scored 0 points in game 7
Even if you want to cherrypick one series LeBron still won with less help than anyone in 2013 :applause:[/QUOTE]
Lebron had 3 HOF teammates in the 13' Finals, while he averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games....
And 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games, thus needing Ray to force game 7... He was also a net negative for the entire series
So Lebron was horrible and carried by had 3 HOF teammates
[QUOTE=tpols]hakeems lack of help is extremely overstated... he beat a knicks team that featured ewing and john starks, which was no more talented than his own team in '94.
And then in '95 he had a prime clyde drexler... all NBA player and multiple time MVP candidate going off in those playoffs with him. But people act like he had bums.
Clyde Drexler had two top 5 MVP finishes and was better than Pau Gasol, but people NEVER mention him in that title run.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, don't forget Horry and Kenny the Jet setting 3 point records during that time frame.
Hakeem is amazing...but I always have said 94-99 was the WEAKEST time period for the modern era.
None of the champions during that time (except for 96 Bulls) would win in the 80's or post 2010's.
[QUOTE=3ball]Lebron had 3 HOF teammates in the 13' Finals, while he averaged 16 on 39% thru 3 games....
And 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games, thus needing Ray to force game 7... He was also a net negative for the entire series
So Lebron was horrible and carried by had 3 HOF teammates[/QUOTE]
25/11/7 off 45% is horrible :oldlol:
LeBron had a higher game score in 2013 than MJ in 96 and 98 finals so if LeBron was horrible than so is MJ those years
Poor manny getting bodied per usual :roll:
[QUOTE=tpols]hakeems lack of help is extremely overstated... he beat a knicks team that featured ewing and john starks, which was no more talented than his own team in '94.
And then in '95 he had a prime clyde drexler... all NBA player and multiple time MVP candidate going off in those playoffs with him. But people act like he had bums.
Clyde Drexler had two top 5 MVP finishes and was better than Pau Gasol, but people NEVER mention him in that title run.[/QUOTE]
its kinda like kobe's 09 help
weak historically but relative to the season the best help in the NBA, with the terrible magic team performance thrown his way.
OP is Straight_Ballin/Egokiller
[QUOTE=RRR3]OP is Straight_Ballin/Egokiller[/QUOTE]
Who are they and who are you again?
They’re you. Don’t play coy.
hakeem in 94, duncan in 03, julius in 76.
[QUOTE=Manny98]LeBron won in 2013 with 15ppg Wade and 12ppg Bosh
[B]No one else won with this low scoring help[/B][/QUOTE]
Minus Jordans scoring average in 96 Finals, Chicago scored 65.7ppg
Minus Brons scoring average in 13 Finals, Heat scored 71.7ppg
In 97 Finals, Chicago scored 55.5ppg minus Jordans scoring average
In 98 Finals, Chicago scored 54.5ppg minus Jordans scoring average
Chicago won the championship in each series
How dumb do you have to be to say the bolded though. You set yourself up for failure :oldlol: Classic Manny
[QUOTE=LostCause]Minus Jordans scoring average in 96 Finals, Chicago scored 65.7ppg
Minus Brons scoring average in 13 Finals, Heat scored 71.7ppg
In 97 Finals, Chicago scored 55.5ppg minus Jordans scoring average
In 98 Finals, Chicago scored 54.5ppg minus Jordans scoring average
Chicago won the championship in each series
How dumb do you have to be to say the bolded though. You set yourself up for failure :oldlol: Classic Manny[/QUOTE]
spurs ortg in 13 finals: 109.3 for context RS: 108.3
sonics ortg in 96 finals: 106.7 for context RS: 110.3
jazz ortg in 97 finals: 103.8 for context RS: 113.6
jazz ortg in 98 finals: 96.1 for context RS: 112.7
Clown lebron for his defense all you want, I dont think you should for his defense in 2013 however
[QUOTE=LostCause]Minus Jordans scoring average in 96 Finals, Chicago scored 65.7ppg
Minus Brons scoring average in 13 Finals, Heat scored 71.7ppg
In 97 Finals, Chicago scored 55.5ppg minus Jordans scoring average
In 98 Finals, Chicago scored 54.5ppg minus Jordans scoring average
Chicago won the championship in each series
How dumb do you have to be to say the bolded though. You set yourself up for failure :oldlol: Classic Manny[/QUOTE]
Your not taking into account pace so your wrong
And i'm talking about 2nd-4th options mainly not the players on the end of the bench
MJ never had a 2nd & 3rd option as bad as Wade and Bosh in 2013 that's facts