Ben Wallace

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWXpyrfEuYo[/url] :eek: :bowdown:

How good was he?
Is he underrated?
How good/impactful would he be today?

To me he is easily one of the defense GOATs. Showing hustle and will to win you rarely see (today).

To me he will always be the one who made Ron Artest shit in his pants. :applause:

I will watch that video later.

He is the best defensive player I have seen.

He would still be a defensive player of the year now. The game is obviously less physical but he was essentially a wing size wise who played center so he could fit in today switching and moving his feet just fine. Pair him with some star he could get a good connection with like Capella and Steven Adams have had he

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]He would still be a defensive player of the year now. The game is obviously less physical but he was essentially a wing size wise who played center so he could fit in today switching and moving his feet just fine. Pair him with some star he could get a good connection with like Capella and Steven Adams have had he

Ben Wallace was an absolute force. One of my favorite players of all time, even as a middle school kid I loved his defense and even got my mom to cop me his Bulls jersey for my birthday :oldlol:

[QUOTE=superduper]In this league though you would need to pair Wallace with a big who can space the floor. Having two non-shooting bigs out there is disasterous these days.[/QUOTE]


Well obviously, even back then that was the case pairing Ben Wallace with Sheed.

[QUOTE=superduper]In this league though you would need to pair Wallace with a big who can space the floor. Having two non-shooting bigs out there is disasterous these days.[/QUOTE]


Like Cliff Robinson, Rasheed Wallace, and Nocioni. Even Pat Garrity when he was in Orlando. Ben always had a shooting 4 on the roster with him.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]He would still be a defensive player of the year now. The game is obviously less physical but he was essentially a wing size wise who played center so he could fit in today switching and moving his feet just fine. Pair him with some star he could get a good connection with like Capella and Steven Adams have had he

A 10 point a game player adding four- five points with considerably more possessions in a pick and roll league that will just lob the ball at a big man in open space isn’t out of the question. He played 36 minutes when he hit his peak scoring. Scoring at the exact same rate and simply adding more trips down the court would give them an opportunity for another garbage basket. It’s not an issue of him having skills more suited to today. It’s partly an issue of there no longer being 56 point games. He’s out there in the playoffs in games with the other team having 39 points in the fourth quarter. He’s not facing teams grinding down the clock and taking 64 shots in a game. Some of his best years the Pistons only scored 100 10-15 times without overtime. Some teams today only stayed under 100 5 or 10 times the whole year.

Scoring more with more chances to score doesn’t make you a better scorer. And there isn’t a long road from 10 to 14-15 in the situation I mentioned. What’s the more conservative estimate? 12? We are arguing over a single lay up or tip in?

And calling that difference over the course of an entire game playing with a play making guard Outrageous?

Let’s just say you disagree. Ben Wallace scoring 25 points a game is outrageous.

14-ish?

Eh.

And not like this proves a point but I gotta get some mileage out of some of these things to justify the effort they take....

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I can’t imagine what point I was making in whatever topic I made those for. It was lost in the great purge so who knows what I was getting at. May have been a joke....but it’s fitting for the moment. Just a random playoff game Ben decided to start shooting jumpers and he knocked the nets out of the playoffs.

[QUOTE=NuggetsFan]Thinking Ben Wallace could average 14-15 points is outrageous :oldlol:

He was listed at 6'9 but measured in at 6'7. Much shorter than Whiteside/Capella and his touch around the basket was about 100 times worse. Wallace was a career 41% FT shooter and had seasons shooting under 40% and shot 42/45% in his highest scoring seasons on stacked rosters where teams didn't have to pay attention to him and all he did was shoot within 0-3 feet. [B]He had seasons where he shot 50-54% within 0-3 of the basket.[/B] Whitside shoots 73% for his career in that area.

Wallace played a ton of minutes back than too. No chance he's getting on the floor for 35-39 minutes in today's era. He would have led the league in MPG in two of his seasons last year. The league spiked in scoring last year to 111 points but the previous seasons were in the 101-106 range. In '12-13 and and '11-12 the average was at 96-98. Wallace played in the league when it was at 95-99 on average. The difference in scoring is simply just 3 point shooting which would only hurt Wallace, not help him. Both offensively and defensively.

That decade was my favorite era of basketball but Wallace's career would be much worse today. He played in the best era suited for him for sure.[/QUOTE]
Disgusting.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]A 10 point a game player adding four- five points with considerably more possessions in a pick and roll league that will just lob the ball at a big man in open space isn

[QUOTE=RRR3]Disgusting.[/QUOTE]


There’s a reason guys like Whiteside Capella DeAndre Jordan Gobert and Steven Adams all have seasons shooting 63 to 70% from the field which was previously unheard of outside of will Chamberlain and Artis Gilmore.

In a spaced out league that runs a huge number of screens and has solid play makers Big men who lack skill aren’t out here going one on one they are getting dump off’s from guards and doing almost nothing but dunking.

Rudy Gobert is not dunking more than prime Shaq because of his ability around the basket(he had more dunks this year than anyone in the 19 years it’s been tracked).

None of these guys shooting percentages mean anything. The only ones who miss shots close in are the ones who convinced themselves they should be creating shots. The low skill play finishers are all out here shooting like Wilt Chamberlain on the Lakers.

There isnt a coach in the league who is going to give Ben Wallace the ball to do something with it. He would shoot better from the field because a higher percentage of his touches will be quick dunks.

The Pistons would actually give Ben Wallace the ball occasionally and let him try to take somebody one on one. Those days are over. He will be doing nothing but rolling to the basket and catching lobs when it was poorly played.

I have to stop posting from my phone. Requires too much editing after. But I

Only 9 players last year played 35 MPG or more. Only 1 PF/C. Ben Wallace during his run with the Pistons would have led the league in MPG twice, and had two other seasons being 4th by last years standards.

So in a league that values all the things Ben Wallace did less than 15 years ago he's going to only put up better numbers? IMO it's outrageous to think he'd play more than anybody in the league today. What team is trotting Ben Wallace out for 35-39 MPG a night? It's entirely unrealistic to think he's getting anymore than 26-29 MPG. So he's going to score more than he ever has in 7-10 less MPG? Guess it's subjective but that's kinda wild to me.

If Ben Wallace scored 15 PPG last year he would have outscored Steven Adams, Enes Kanter, Al Horford, Marc Gasol, Myles Turner, Brook Lopez, Whiteside, D.Jordan. Ben Wallace isn't as good offensively as someone like Capela. He's nowhere near as big as someone like Gobert. If Gobert was 6'7 he wouldn't score like he does.

If we are starting from an assumption that Ben Wallace can

With or without PED's?

[QUOTE=Haymaker]To me he will always be the one who made Ron Artest shit in his pants. :applause:[/QUOTE]

Not at all.

Artest at the time was walking a thin line to avoid issues.

He held himself back.

But that cup landing square on his chest and splattering on his face just made him snap.

He didn't fear Wallace one damn bit.

Wallace was a popcorn beach body specialist, but he wasn't naturally the strongest or toughest.

Artest would wreck him in a fight.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]He would still be a defensive player of the year now. The game is obviously less physical but he was essentially a wing size wise who played center so he could fit in today switching and moving his feet just fine. Pair him with some star he could get a good connection with like Capella and Steven Adams have had he

Ability to score and dunking uncontested lobs and tipping balls in playing off a superstar playmaker aren’t really the same thing. The era differences make it too hard to lock down production comparisons between the guys who peaked in the early 2000’s and the nonsense we saw last year. Warriors go out and score 50 points in a quarter while the Pistons held a team to 54 points in a playoff game...

It’s hard to make direct comparisons. Teams were not built the same. Teams are more concerned with depth and will use it even in the playoffs. The specialists....the lineups tracked by effectiveness. So you don’t just add possessions and open it up and have a guy who average 30 then come take 32 shots a game and get 38....

There is no way to compare it but off opportunity an extra tip in and lob is not out of the question playing with the right lineup. But he would need to be on a team like he was on then only dropped into a modern league which will give him more opportunity which is unrealistic to begin with because they don’t build teams like he played on.

He’s a low skill garbageman and the issue is how much garbage he’d be there to gather.

None of these guys in question score with much skill.

Adams has some but I’m not sure any of these other names coming up do. Drummond thinks he does which is why he still tries to carry an offense at times but most don’t even pretend.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Ability to score and dunking uncontested lobs and tipping balls in playing off a superstar playmaker aren

More of an issue when big men got the ball. If you pull up Pistons games from then you

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If we are starting from an assumption that Ben Wallace can

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]

Nobody is going to throw him the ball expecting him to do something impressive with it. But put him against these lineups of much softer by design big men?
[/QUOTE]

You never seem to factor in the otherside for some reason. Softer big men for sure. It's also how the league is reffed. Ben Wallace was like a bull in a china shop. You wouldn't be able to do any of that stuff. Watch a clip of Shaq in like 2001. Half of that stuff nowadays is an offensive foul unless your a perimeter player.

Today's league is completely geared towards guards/perimeter players. I think this era is the last era you'd ever wanna be a big man outside of finesse big men. Like Dirk would have been better off starting his career in 2019. Ben Wallace is the last guy who'd want to start his career in this era. He had two seasons in the 9 PPG range, he's a career 5.7 PPG guy on 5 FGA..

Overrated back then but definitely better suited to play in todays game where his lack of size wont be much of a factor going up against todays bigs.

[QUOTE=Reggie43]Overrated back then but definitely better suited to play in todays game where his lack of size wont be much of a factor going up against todays bigs.[/QUOTE]

He wasn't overrated one bit. He was the best defensive player in the league for a good 6-7 years.

Ben certainly wouldn't be that impactful today. When he played, not many bigs shoot 3s. Nowadays many of them space the floor, making Ben's rim protection less effective. Add to that he's really awful at the line with really awful offensive game. He wouldn't even score a point against Enes Kanter.

But he'll still be DPOY candidate. Basically the same player, just less impact.

maybe not literally the best at rotating, but one of the best ever at getting his hands on the ball, and at boarding

his offense was atrocious

[QUOTE=stalkerforlife]Not at all.

Artest at the time was walking a thin line to avoid issues.

He held himself back.

But that cup landing square on his chest and splattering on his face just made him snap.

He didn't fear Wallace one damn bit.

Wallace was a popcorn beach body specialist, but he wasn't naturally the strongest or toughest.

Artest would wreck him in a fight.[/QUOTE]
No man, Artest pedaled back as a scared cat would. He knew he was playing with fire and that pissed off beast of a man was coming right at him to rip his head off. That, my dude, was FEAR.

His defense was necessary to make up for his complete lack of offense. Poor man's Rodman which is still probably good enough for HOF but let's not forget the Pistons had to play 4 vs 5 on offense when Big Ben was in, luckily they could all shoot the 3 ball pretty well.