He might not quite be the rebounder that Charles is, but he could be even more dynamic scoring the ball.
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He might not quite be the rebounder that Charles is, but he could be even more dynamic scoring the ball.
A fat loser that never wins anything. Got it.
[B]He probably won't develop the post game and the touch around the basket Sir Charles had.
21.6 PPG on 58.13% FG on only 12.9 FGAs PG for 16 seasons (including those passed his prime in Houston as 3rd option)
22.5 PPG on 55.13% FG on only 14.5 FGAs PG for Play-Off Runs (including those passed his prime in Houston as 3rd option)[/B]
Can the dude play a single regular season game before proclaiming him a top 20 player all time :lol
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents]Can the dude play a single regular season game before proclaiming him a top 20 player all time :lol[/QUOTE]
Based on tonights performance Im ready to rank him comfortably in the 12-14 range.
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]A fat loser that never wins anything. Got it.[/QUOTE]
yes.
On the transition maybe. But Sir Charles dominated in the post. Top 5 low post player of all-time. Zion is closer to Lebron as a scorer. Or at least closer on a spectrum.
Chuck was something else.
Here are some numbers to illustrate this. Playoffs only. 3pt era only. Q = 100 games played.
Top 5 offensive boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Shaq
3. Rodman
4. Wallace
5. Oakley
Top 5 defensive boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Garnett
3. Duncan
4. Malone
5. Bird
Top 5 total boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley - 12.9[/B]
2. Shaq - 11.6
3. Duncan - 11.4
4. Hakeem - 11.2
5. Wallace - 11.2
^^^ look at that gap between Barkley and the rest!
Top 5 assists per game for bigs (C/PF)
1. Draymond
[B]2. Barkley[/B]
3. Horford
4. Garnett
5. Diaw
Top 5 points per game for bigs (C/PF)
1. Hakeem
2. Dirk
3. Malone
4. Shaq
[B]5. Barkley[/B]
Top 5 scoring efficiency (ts%) for 20+ ppg bigs (C/PF)
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Kareem
3. Dirk
3. Hakeem
5. Shaq
Based on playoff performance he is in the conversation for
1. GOAT rebounder of 3pt era
2. GOAT play making big of 3pt era
3. GOAT scoring big of 3pt era
I dunno why people are acting like comparing an unproven rookie to an NBA legend is some sort of insult now:lol Peak Chuck was an offensive monster - much more versatile player than Zion anyway
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]A fat loser that never wins anything. Got it.[/QUOTE]
I dont get how people like you even root for players. How many people have won something Barkley didnt in your life? As a teams best player I mean. 14 maybe?
If all the rest are losers.....who are you even repping? The Blazers franchise has not done anything Barkley didnt in the last century 40+ years. Dame a loser who never wins anything?
If Zion is 80% of Barkley hes in the HOF.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk]He might not quite be the rebounder that Charles is, but he could be even more dynamic scoring the ball.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's as close as we've seen anyone be to Chuck tbh. A bit taller and more athletic, looks like he's trying to add the 3 to his game as well.
I think saying he
watch the knees.
-Smak
He doesn't look to have the appetite for rebounding like Chuck did.
He is more like a rich man's Oliver Miller.
The ultimate small ball center.
Barkley was a freak athlete, but he also had GOAT skills around the basket.
Zion is obviously a freak athlete, but that alone won't make him a top tier ATG.
[QUOTE=AussieSteve]Chuck was something else.
Here are some numbers to illustrate this. Playoffs only. 3pt era only. Q = 100 games played.
Top 5 offensive boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Shaq
3. Rodman
4. Wallace
5. Oakley
Top 5 defensive boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Garnett
3. Duncan
4. Malone
5. Bird
Top 5 total boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley - 12.9[/B]
2. Shaq - 11.6
3. Duncan - 11.4
4. Hakeem - 11.2
5. Wallace - 11.2
^^^ look at that gap between Barkley and the rest!
Top 5 assists per game for bigs (C/PF)
1. Draymond
[B]2. Barkley[/B]
3. Horford
4. Garnett
5. Diaw
Top 5 points per game for bigs (C/PF)
1. Hakeem
2. Dirk
3. Malone
4. Shaq
[B]5. Barkley[/B]
Top 5 scoring efficiency (ts%) for 20+ ppg bigs (C/PF)
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Kareem
3. Dirk
3. Hakeem
5. Shaq
Based on playoff performance he is in the conversation for
1. GOAT rebounder of 3pt era
2. GOAT play making big of 3pt era
3. GOAT scoring big of 3pt era[/QUOTE]
:applause: :bowdown: :cheers: :rockon: :pimp: :banana:
If you're going to compare Zion to ANY legend from the past, it's going to be Chuck. Due to the fact he's in that 6'6 280 pound range, a freak athlete, and a marketable phenom, that's the apt comparison. Barkley coming out of Auburn was 270 pounds himself. Of course he eventually dropped some of that weight in the league. And ALL COMPARISONS aren't dead on comparisons. Or a MJ-Kobe type of comparison. It's more about finding the player MOST SIMILAR. And when it comes to legends, the Barkley comparison is the one to make.
But upside wise at his size, I see him being a mix of Charles BUT could potentially have Anthony Mason type of defensive versatility. Being able to defend big swingmen to C's effectively. But able to get 25PPG-12RPG-4-5AST a night like Chuck would get. Not saying he will put that package together right away. BUT when u look at his physicial attributes, freak athletic ability, and motor, Barkley mixed with some Anthony Mason would be a SICK perennial All Star type of player!
If Barkley was an elite and versatile defender like Mase was in that era, he could have POSSIBLY been the best player on the planet FLAT OUT! It would have been close between him and MJ at one point! Only difference is in today's game, u have the guys like AD and Giannis LONG TERM would combine all those elements BUT they are much taller than Zion at the PF spot. Or in Giannis' case PF-SF.
[QUOTE=bizil]If you're going to compare Zion to ANY legend from the past, it's going to be Chuck. Due to the fact he's in that 6'6 280 pound range, a freak athlete, and a marketable phenom, that's the apt comparison. Barkley coming out of Auburn was 270 pounds himself. Of course he eventually dropped some of that weight in the league. And ALL COMPARISONS aren't dead on comparisons. Or a MJ-Kobe type of comparison. It's more about finding the player MOST SIMILAR. And when it comes to legends, the Barkley comparison is the one to make.
But upside wise at his size, I see him being a mix of Charles BUT could potentially have Anthony Mason type of defensive versatility. Being able to defend big swingmen to C's effectively. But able to get 25PPG-12RPG-4-5AST a night like Chuck would get. Not saying he will put that package together right away. BUT when u look at his physicial attributes, freak athletic ability, and motor, Barkley mixed with some Anthony Mason would be a SICK perennial All Star type of player!
If Barkley was an elite and versatile defender like Mase was in that era, he could have POSSIBLY been the best player on the planet FLAT OUT! It would have been close between him and MJ at one point! Only difference is in today's game, u have the guys like AD and Giannis LONG TERM would combine all those elements BUT they are much taller than Zion at the PF spot. Or in Giannis' case PF-SF.[/QUOTE]
That was long winded to say something way off. Chuck has post moves for days which will never be emulated by Zion. In fact no modern day player even comes close to that skillset. And Zion is definitely not the closest.
Zion is a downhill slasher with crazy athleticism. If anything he is more of a early Larry Johnson. Or Amar'e Stoudemire, or Shawn Kemp.
I suspect this will hurt your ego. But like I said, you made such a long winded post I felt the need to correct you.
[QUOTE=DaHeezy]That was long winded to say something way off. Chuck has post moves for days which will never be emulated by Zion. In fact no modern day player even comes close to that skillset. And Zion is definitely not the closest.
Zion is a downhill slasher with crazy athleticism. If anything he is more of a early Larry Johnson. Or Amar'e Stoudemire, or Shawn Kemp.
I suspect this will hurt your ego. But like I said, you made such a long winded post I felt the need to correct you.[/QUOTE]
LMAO!!! Hoops forums don't hurt my ego. It's not THAT SERIOUS! The bigger issue is YOU ARE SLOW!!! And don't know how to comprehend shit! I said earlier in my post that all comparisons AREN'T dead on exact comparisons. Barkley at Auburn was in that 270-275 pound area. THAT right there eliminates guys like Larry Johnson, Amare, or Kemp. Those guys were NEVER that size. Barkley and Zion are TWO OF A KIND for PF's in that 6'5 to 6'6 area who carry that weight. YET are still freakish athletic at the same time! LJ was 25-30 pounds lighter in college in that Chuck and Zion were.
So FOR THOSE REASONS, Zion compares more to Barkley than ANY OTHER legend! I see some LJ in his game somewhat. BUT LJ was NEVER quite the dominant overall force that Barkley was in the NBA. LJ was NEVER a top 5 player in the world. Hell was never a top 10 player in the league. So when it comes size, freak athletic ability, and potential upside, Barkley is the more apt comparison among the LEGENDARY PLAYERS!
The subject is Zion the next Charles Barkley. So i responded to the subject of the thread. NEVER said it was an exact match to begin with SLOWPOKE! But among the legends, Barkley would be the closest comparison. Guys like Kemp and Amare are two TOTALLY different players than Zion. Freak athletic ability they have in common. But Barkley was a more COMPLETE PLAYER than those two. Zion SHOULD BE a more complete player than those two!
[QUOTE=AussieSteve]Chuck was something else.
Here are some numbers to illustrate this. Playoffs only. 3pt era only. Q = 100 games played.
Top 5 offensive boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Shaq
3. Rodman
4. Wallace
5. Oakley
Top 5 defensive boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Garnett
3. Duncan
4. Malone
5. Bird
Top 5 total boards per game.
[B]1. Barkley - 12.9[/B]
2. Shaq - 11.6
3. Duncan - 11.4
4. Hakeem - 11.2
5. Wallace - 11.2
^^^ look at that gap between Barkley and the rest!
Top 5 assists per game for bigs (C/PF)
1. Draymond
[B]2. Barkley[/B]
3. Horford
4. Garnett
5. Diaw
Top 5 points per game for bigs (C/PF)
1. Hakeem
2. Dirk
3. Malone
4. Shaq
[B]5. Barkley[/B]
Top 5 scoring efficiency (ts%) for 20+ ppg bigs (C/PF)
[B]1. Barkley[/B]
2. Kareem
3. Dirk
3. Hakeem
5. Shaq
Based on playoff performance he is in the conversation for
1. GOAT rebounder of 3pt era
2. GOAT play making big of 3pt era
3. GOAT scoring big of 3pt era[/QUOTE]
To this day, no PF combined scoring-passing-rebounding like Barkley. Even better than guys like Webber, Duncan, KG, Malone, etc. If Giannis is considered a PF, he's in that group too. But even in the case of Giannis, Barkley had a more complete scoring skillset.
So when people compare Zion to Barkley, that's not SAYING he will combine those elements just as good OR better than Chuck. Or he plays exactly like Barkley. BUT I still think Zion's size compares most favorably to young Chuck BEFORE Chuck lost some weight.
And at Duke, he did shit that reminded me of a new age Barkley type of player. And ultimately, I think Zion has the goods to be a great scoring, passing, and rebounding PF as a 6'6 burly PF. WHILE exhibiting the freak athletic ability and handles that a SF would have. Those are elements from the Barkley blueprint!
I'm telling you, Zion will be another Charles Barkley. Maybe not as good...or maybe just as good.
The underrated aspect of Zion is how quick and high of a TWO-FOOTED leaper he is...which is a very important part of basketball athleticism. Charles has the same capabilities, but Zion is even more athletic.
He's a combo of all the guys mentioned here.
Or most of them anyway.
I see a lot of 80s Barkley in Zion. Full court terror who bulldozes to the cup. GREAT athlete. Aesthetic power dunker like Kemp too.
Larry Johnson though? Not seeing it. I was never high on LJ's game so its probably bias.
Zion is just a tier above Chuck as an athlete. Chuck was mostly a 1 foot leaper who needed a head of steam to get up. Zion is GOAT tier at both 1 or 2 feet. So he can go over the top of people off 2 feet or beat people to the basket with his speed via 1 feet.
Many "experts" say this and it's true: There has never been a guy quite like him. Dude can jump off 2 feet and get his head at rim level (something only a few players could ever do) and do FT line dunks with ease off 1 feet. The other guy who was GOAT tier at both was MJ.
I would say in terms of pure explosiveness of the floor, Zion resembles me of Kemp. People forget how EXPLOSIVE Kemp was. Dude was a freak. And Kemp was also explosive off both feet. He had the speed to run like a deer but also the deep knee bend to get in a crouch and go over the top of people near the basket.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHb875YbbrA[/url]
he got an ass like Barkley
:lol
He'll be better than Barkley
He's a generational talent similar to Lebron, you can compare him to the likes of past players but come mid career he'll have surpassed those comparisons and become his own genre to be compared to.
There's simply nobody with handles, speed, size and hops we've ever seen in the NBA before. At least not anybody that can put the ball in the basket
Check these clips out.
First one is a FT line dunk.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Deu4GZaYFiM[/url]
2nd, gets his head at rim level with EASE off 2 feet.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWgP4u8ovFg[/url]
These are the 2 greatest measures of pure athleticism. Jump and cover horizontal ground off 1 feet and explode off 2 feet and get your head at rim level. Next level athlete. We are lucky to watch this guy going forward. :bowdown:
And this is where Zion even separates himself from Bron. Bron is primarily a 1 foot leaper, perhaps the GOAT at it but Zion is GOAT tier at both. Only MJ was GOAT tier at both.
[QUOTE=ClipperRevival]And this is where Zion even separates himself from Bron. Bron is primarily a 1 foot leaper, perhaps the GOAT at it but Zion is GOAT tier at both. Only MJ was GOAT tier at both.[/QUOTE]
Lebron and Zion's leaping ability separate themselves from Jordan at the weight of 70-100 pounds heavier
Apples n Oranges
[B]You people are forgeting underrating young Barkley in terms of athleticism. Zion is more acrobatic in his dunks and a better leaper but Barkley was still one of the most athletic players ever.
- Barkley was stronger.
- Barkley at 6'4 and 5/8 ft could stand right under the rim and dunk off one leg at 285 lbs
- Barkley would dunk while jumping off two legs under the rim most of his career. He actually had the strongest legs in the NBA prior to Shaq.
- He could move at near to 300 lbs and touch the square of the backboard and dunk
- Barkley had an outside shot all the way up to 18 ft in his peak and he was the most dangerous post player with McHale and Shaq in his era.
- Barkley averaged 12.9 RPG in his play-off career
- Barkley also had better vision for off post passes, around the back passes and had great hands too[/B]
[QUOTE=Round Mound]You people are forgeting underrating young Barkley in terms of athleticism.
- Barkley was stronger.
[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
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[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/pXV8sPFH/Dh1-Zom2-Xc-AAC2vc.jpg[/img][/url]
-13 tonight. All his baskets in the paint against a team with literally no interior defense.
His looks very good against that defense.
I think he's going to struggle against legit NBA bigs.
[QUOTE=bizil]LMAO!!! Hoops forums don't hurt my ego. It's not THAT SERIOUS! [/QUOTE]
Stopped reading right there. The fact you tl;dnr wall of text shows your insecurity. "I'm not hurt, but I'll right an essay on why I'm totally right!" You're worse than Kblaze
Like I said, Barkley was a post monster you dumped the ball into and let him go to work and offensively controlled the paint. Like Shaq, McHale, Dantley, Hakeem. Zion in no way has that type of skillset. You immediately went to physical compatibles and said yup! They're the same. You read things on a messagboard and glorify it. No actual eye test.
Zion is a downhill slasher. You telling me you're gonna post up Zion and isolate him in the post? And he's gonna dominate the guy defending him? Lol.
*** outta here with that! Or better yet, start a new wall of text on why you're not hurt :lol
[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]He's a combo of all the guys mentioned here.
Or most of them anyway.
I see a lot of 80s Barkley in Zion. Full court terror who bulldozes to the cup. GREAT athlete. Aesthetic power dunker like Kemp too.
Larry Johnson though? Not seeing it. I was never high on LJ's game so its probably bias.[/QUOTE]
I mentioned that. Open court transition he's unstoppable. But that's where the Barkley comparison starts and ends. The same thing can be said about Lebron. All 3 of them are freight trains from one end to the other.
I like the Kemp comparison a lot more. You got a freakish athlete completely bouncy. You set screens off the ball and let him jump over people. Or have him stand around the basket and dump off and finish. Same thing with early athletic LJ before his knees broke him down and resorted to being a jump shooter.
Barkley was ungaurdable in the post, with the ball IN HIS HANDS and let him operate. Which is why I don't like the Zion comparison because Zion is not a throwback. Having said all that Zion is a physical freak. If we say he's Barkley because of that might as well say he's Shaq or Lebron. In terms of skillet he's not the same isolate in the paint as a McHale, Barkley, or Dantley which is the comparisons I use. Zion is a unique specimen.
Physical comparisons don't necessarily translate to on court. Take the total package and you get a better description
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]A fat loser that never wins anything. Got it.[/QUOTE]
Loser? The guy is one of the NBA all time great players.
You keyboard warriors throw the word "loser" around so often on forums :lol
What have you achieved better than Sir Charles?
[QUOTE=DaHeezy]I mentioned that. Open court transition he's unstoppable. But that's where the Barkley comparison starts and ends. The same thing can be said about Lebron. All 3 of them are freight trains from one end to the other.
I like the Kemp comparison a lot more. You got a freakish athlete completely bouncy. You set screens off the ball and let him jump over people. Or have him stand around the basket and dump off and finish. Same thing with early athletic LJ before his knees broke him down and resorted to being a jump shooter.
Barkley was ungaurdable in the post, with the ball IN HIS HANDS and let him operate. Which is why I don't like the Zion comparison because Zion is not a throwback. Having said all that Zion is a physical freak. If we say he's Barkley because of that might as well say he's Shaq or Lebron. In terms of skillet he's not the same isolate in the paint as a McHale, Barkley, or Dantley which is the comparisons I use. Zion is a unique specimen.
Physical comparisons don't necessarily translate to on court. Take the total package and you get a better description[/QUOTE]
Zion IS good in the post though at this stage of his career...did you see him at Duke?
You are exaggerating by throwing in the Shaq/Lebron comparisons...
I think Zion can be very similar to Barkley by his 3rd season. Both Zion and Barkley aren't great long range shooters either but have underrated handles.
[QUOTE=StrongLurk]Zion IS good in the post though at this stage of his career...did you see him at Duke?
You are exaggerating by throwing in the Shaq/Lebron comparisons...
I think Zion can be very similar to Barkley by his 3rd season. Both Zion and Barkley aren't great long range shooters either but have underrated handles.[/QUOTE]
Yes I did watch Zion. A lot. And the majority of his game like I said is slashing downhill. He gets his points with off the ball movement. Backdoor cuts, off ball screens and dump offs. Not by posting up and creating his own shot. Zion does not have Barkley's back you down bang'em style post move. Makes me wonder if you ever watched Barkley.
This comparison reminds me of when everyone said Porzingis was a Kirilenko clone. This is just as off. Barkley and Zion is like saying Embiid plays like Hakeem. In fact that's a parallel comparison. Hakeem had footwork in the post where Embiid used nimble feet driving to the basket. But because they are africans using footwork they are clones. Trust me. My eye test is very accurate on this
[QUOTE=RoseCity07]A fat loser that never wins anything. Got it.[/QUOTE]
Are Bran stans so stupid they can't even fathom that Barkley would have at least one chip if it wasn't for the GOAT. Jordan ain't like Bran handing out chips and FMVPs left and right :oldlol:
He's the next Shawn Kemp.
[QUOTE=Haymaker]He's the next Shawn Kemp.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. Someone who has watched 90's basketball