# of superteams beaten by MVP or FMVP winners

Heres a list of superteams:

1959-1969 Celtics
1981-1987 Celtics
1983-1985 76ers
1984-1991 Lakers
1996-1998 Bulls
2004 Lakers
2008-2010 Celtics
2011-2014 Heat
2015-2017 Cavaliers
2017-2019 Warriors
2021 Lakers

# of superteams beaten by MVP or FMVP winners:
Larry Bird: 2(1984 Lakers, 1985 76ers)
Magic Johnson: 2(1985 Celtics, 1987 Celtics)
Kawhi Leonard: 2(2014 Heat, 2019 Warriors)
Stephen Curry: 2(2015 Cavs, 2017 Cavs)
Wilt Chamberlain: 1(1967 Celtics)
Moses Malone: 1(1983 Lakers)
Isiah Thomas: 1(1989 Lakers)
Michael Jordan: 1(1991 Lakers)
Chauncey Billups: 1(2004 Lakers)
Kobe Bryant: 1(2010 Celtics)
Dirk Nowitzki: 1(2011 Heat)
Tim Duncan: 1(2014 Heat)
Kevin Durant 1(2017 Cavs)

As we can see, to beat a superteam is extremely difficult and we dont even have one player who beat superteams more than 2 times. Among these players who have defeated 2 superteams, Bird, Magic, Curry(only in 2017) and Durant did this on their own superteams. This makes Kawhi's achievements far more impressive, as he beat 2 superteams without being on his own superteams. He deserve massive respect for pulling off miracles twice.

:applause:

Exactly. Now kawhi is working on his 3rd miracle. The clippers have always been the bastard son of LA.

[QUOTE=HBK_Kliq_2;14290514]Exactly. Now kawhi is working on his 3rd miracle. The clippers have always been the bastard son of LA.[/QUOTE]

If Kawhi beats the Lakers superteam again, he will be on a tier of his own from this list.
:applause:

Tim Duncan beat the '04 Lakers? OP really is the dumbest poster on the forum :oldlol:

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14290518]Tim Duncan beat the '04 Lakers? OP really is the dumbest poster on the forum :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Edited, but still Kawhi beats 2 superteams without being on his own.

So Perkins, rookie Vlade, past his prime Byron Scott, or AC green as the number 3....makes for a super team....with Magic and Worthy(who along with Scott was hurt in the finals).

I don’t know. 80s Lakers obviously.....but 91?

Eh. Just a great team. The third guy generally makes it “super”. At least going off talent and names and not how well they play. If you wanna go off names hard to say Kobe along with near prime Dwight with prime Pau(he arguably peaked in Chicago in ways) and Odom and company isn’t a super team. They aren’t once you factor in performance but factoring that in a lot of them aren’t. The 04 lakers and 2011- Heat didn’t exactly dominate.

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets;14290520]Edited, but still Kawhi beats 2 superteams without being on his own.[/QUOTE]
Bird also didn't beat the '84 Sixers OR '86 Lakers. You don't seem to know your basketball history :(

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14290523]Bird also didn't beat the '84 Sixers OR '86 Lakers. You don't seem to know your basketball history :([/QUOTE]

Corrected. Seems I got the years wrong. Bird beat the Sixers in 1985, and the Lakers in 1984.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14290522]So Perkins, rookie Vlade, past his prime Byron Scott, or AC green as the number 3....makes for a super team....with Magic and Worthy(who along with Scott was hurt in the finals).

I don’t know. 80s Lakers obviously.....but 91?

Eh. Just a great team. The third guy generally makes it “super”. At least going off talent and names and not how well they play. If you wanna go off names hard to say Kobe along with near prime Dwight with prime Pau(he arguably peaked in Chicago in ways) and Odom and company isn’t a super team. They aren’t once you factor in performance but factoring that in a lot of them aren’t. The 04 lakers and 2011- Heat didn’t exactly dominate.[/QUOTE]
Or the fact the '89 Lakers, '15 Cavs & '19 Warriors get superteam status despite all having literally multiple key players out

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets;14290511]Heres a list of superteams:

1959-1969 Celtics
1981-1987 Celtics
1983-1985 76ers
1984-1991 Lakers
1996-1998 Bulls
2004 Lakers
2008-2010 Celtics
2011-2014 Heat
2015-2017 Cavaliers
2017-2019 Warriors
2021 Lakers

# of superteams beaten by MVP or FMVP winners:
Larry Bird: 2(1984 Lakers, 1985 76ers)
Magic Johnson: 2(1985 Celtics, 1987 Celtics)
Kawhi Leonard: 2(2014 Heat, 2019 Warriors)
Stephen Curry: 2(2015 Cavs, 2017 Cavs)
Wilt Chamberlain: 1(1967 Celtics)
Moses Malone: 1(1983 Lakers)
Isiah Thomas: 1(1989 Lakers)
Michael Jordan: 1(1991 Lakers)
Chauncey Billups: 1(2004 Lakers)
Kobe Bryant: 1(2010 Celtics)
Dirk Nowitzki: 1(2011 Heat)
Tim Duncan: 1(2014 Heat)
Kevin Durant 1(2017 Cavs)

As we can see, to beat a superteam is extremely difficult and we dont even have one player who beat superteams more than 2 times. Among these players who have defeated 2 superteams, Bird, Magic, Curry(only in 2017) and Durant did this on their own superteams. This makes Kawhi's achievements far more impressive, as he beat 2 superteams without being on his own superteams. He deserve massive respect for pulling off miracles twice.

:applause:[/QUOTE]
Correction needed = Kareem was the FMVP in 85 vs Celtics.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14290526]Or the fact the '89 Lakers, '15 Cavs & '19 Warriors get superteam status despite all having literally multiple key players out[/QUOTE]

2019 warriors were still a super team because they swept the west finals. In the finals, klay missed a game and a quarter, that's very similar to Draymond missing a game in 2016.

Draymond was important in 2016 because he could make it a grind out defense game and beat Irving because Irving has weak defense. Draymond carried them in game 7 and nearly won.

Klay was important in 2019 because he could get hot and make it an offensive game and raptors were a 1 man offense in Kawhi.

Overall, draymond is more important due to being the defensive anchor and main passer. All the advance stats show that draymond is better.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14290523]Bird also didn't beat the '84 Sixers OR '86 Lakers. You don't seem to know your basketball history :([/QUOTE]
:(

[QUOTE=HBK_Kliq_2;14290541]2019 warriors were still a super team because they swept the west finals. In the finals, klay missed a game and a quarter, that's very similar to Draymond missing a game in 2016.

Draymond was important in 2016 because he could make it a grind out defense game and beat Irving because Irving has weak defense. Draymond carried them in game 7 and nearly won.

Klay was important in 2019 because he could get hot and make it an offensive game and raptors were a 1 man offense in Kawhi.

Overall, draymond is more important due to being the defensive anchor and main passer. All the advance stats show that draymond is better.[/QUOTE]
Well then you agree OP has to change his calculation and include the '16 Warriors, hence adding LeBron to the list :applause:

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14290549]Well then you agree OP has to change his calculation and include the '16 Warriors, hence adding LeBron to the list :applause:[/QUOTE]

Irving outplayed Curry though and Irving made the biggest shot of the game 7. So kawhi was more impressive but I can give a nice #2 of this era playoff run for 2016 LeBron sure but Kawhi was better.

[QUOTE=HBK_Kliq_2;14290557]Irving outplayed Curry though and Irving made the biggest shot of the game 7. So kawhi was more impressive but I can give a nice #2 of this era playoff run for 2016 LeBron sure but Kawhi was better.[/QUOTE]
So we agree LeBron makes the list, making OP's thread already riddled with mistakes backfire too :applause:

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets;14290511]Heres a list of superteams:

1959-1969 Celtics
1981-1987 Celtics
1983-1985 76ers
1984-1991 Lakers
1996-1998 Bulls
2004 Lakers
2008-2010 Celtics
2011-2014 Heat
2015-2017 Cavaliers
2017-2019 Warriors
2021 Lakers

# of superteams beaten by MVP or FMVP winners:
Larry Bird: 2(1984 Lakers, 1985 76ers)
Magic Johnson: 2(1985 Celtics, 1987 Celtics)
Kawhi Leonard: 2(2014 Heat, 2019 Warriors)
Stephen Curry: 2(2015 Cavs, 2017 Cavs)
Wilt Chamberlain: 1(1967 Celtics)
Moses Malone: 1(1983 Lakers)
Isiah Thomas: 1(1989 Lakers)
Michael Jordan: 1(1991 Lakers)
Chauncey Billups: 1(2004 Lakers)
Kobe Bryant: 1(2010 Celtics)
Dirk Nowitzki: 1(2011 Heat)
Tim Duncan: 1(2014 Heat)
Kevin Durant 1(2017 Cavs)

As we can see, to beat a superteam is extremely difficult and we dont even have one player who beat superteams more than 2 times. Among these players who have defeated 2 superteams, Bird, Magic, Curry(only in 2017) and Durant did this on their own superteams. This makes Kawhi's achievements far more impressive, as he beat 2 superteams without being on his own superteams. He deserve massive respect for pulling off miracles twice.

:applause:[/QUOTE]


Beating a super-team means nothing if you have a super-team yourself.

So the only rings that matter are those with non-superteams, and also those with true 2nd options.

Here's a list of non-superteam rings, with an asterisk next to those with 2nd options (no 1b's or fmvp sidekicks)


[INDENT]89' Pistons
90' Pistons
94' Rockets*
95' Rockets*
11' Mavs*
04' Pistons
09' Lakers*
10' Lakers*
15' Warriors*
19' Raptors*
90's Bulls*[/Indent]


Btw, here's the list of champion 2nd options that never achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP (true 2nd options) - Pippen, Gasol, Terry, Rip Hamilton, Klay, Horry... That's it... So rings with 2nd options like these guys are harder than rings with elite 1st option or FMVP sidekicks, aka Curry, Kobe, Kareem, Wade, Dumars, Tony Parker, etc.

Btw, Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and was 36 years old, so if he was a "star", then so was 2010 Shaq.. And he averaged 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs... Ultimately, the 96-98 Bulls weren't a super-team because they lacked 3 perennial all-stars or 2 perennial MVP candidates.

[QUOTE=Kiddlovesnets;14290525]Corrected. Seems I got the years wrong. Bird beat the Sixers in 1985, and the Lakers in 1984.[/QUOTE]
It seems like you get A LOT wrong.

Wait so the 14 Heat are a super team but the Nets right now aren’t?

K

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14290572]Wait so the 14 Heat are a super team but the Nets right now aren’t?

K[/QUOTE]


Current Nets are a super-team

A super-team is 3 perennial all-stars or 2 perennial top 5 players

[QUOTE=3ball;14290580]Current Nets are a super-team

A super-team is 3 perennial all-stars or 2 perennial top 5 players[/QUOTE]

don't forget about 3 all-leaguers. chicago was the only team in 96 to have THREE (nevermind 6MOTY and COTY). nobody else could match their firepower.

Wow. OP really got destroyed in his own thread.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14290585]don't forget about 3 all-leaguers. chicago was the only team in 96 to have THREE (nevermind 6MOTY and COTY). nobody else could match their firepower.[/QUOTE]


All-defense isn't included in super-team criteria, otherwise the 06' Cavs might be a super-team.. or the 10' Cavs

Btw, Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and was 36 years old, so if he was a "star", then so was 2010 Shaq.. And he averaged 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs... Ultimately, the 96-98 Bulls weren't a super-team because they lacked 3 perennial all-stars or 2 perennial MVP candidates

OP actually thinks Andre Drummond is good. Even more than that he thinks he’s enough to make the Lakers a superteam.

Legit surprised he can remember how to get to this website.

[QUOTE=3ball;14290588]All-defense isn't included in super-team criteria, otherwise the 06' Cavs might be a super-team.. or the 10' Cavs

Btw, Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and was 36 years old, so if he was a "star", then so was 2010 Shaq.. And he averaged 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs... Ultimately, the 96-98 Bulls weren't a super-team because they lacked 3 perennial all-stars or 2 perennial MVP candidates[/QUOTE]

all-league>allstars. its no coincidence chicago won the amount of games they did - they simply had more talent on the floor than everyone else.

not sure why you mentioned 97 or 98 btw. i was talking about 96. the same year chicago fielded 3 all-leaguers, which nobody else had.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14290595]all-league>allstars. its no coincidence chicago won the amount of games they did - they simply had more talent on the floor than everyone else.

not sure why you mentioned 97 or 98 btw. i was talking about 96. the same year chicago fielded 3 all-leaguers, which nobody else had.[/QUOTE]


Rodman wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98' and all-defense isn't all-league

So keep reaching

The Bulls won so much because they had the #1 offense, which Rodman hurt

Drummond destroys old Rodman (Drummond was an 18/14 player before joining lebron)

[QUOTE=3ball;14290617]Rodman wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98' and all-defense isn't all-league

So keep reaching

Drummond destroys old Rodman (Drummond was an 18/14 player before joining lebron)[/QUOTE]

nobody mentioned 97 or 98. again we are talking about 96.

[B]all-league = all-team[/B] fyi. so semantic BS aside, nobody else fielded that talent except chicago - another reason they were a superteam.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14290624]nobody mentioned 97 or 98. again we are talking about 96.

[B]all-league = all-team[/B] fyi. so semantic BS aside, nobody else fielded that talent except chicago - another reason they were a superteam.[/QUOTE]


Rodman wasn't all-nba/league in 96'

And again, all-defense isn't included in super-team criteria, otherwise the 06' Cavs might be a super-team.. or the 10' Cavs

Ultimately, it's a joke - Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and was 36 years old, so if he was a "star", then so was 2010 Shaq.. And he averaged 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs... Ultimately, the 96-98 Bulls weren't a super-team because they lacked 3 perennial all-stars or 2 perennial MVP candidates



[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14290624]

Nobody mentioned


[/Quote]


Beating a super-team means nothing if you have a super-team yourself.

So the only rings that matter are those with non-superteams, and also those with true 2nd options.

Here's a list of non-superteam rings, with an asterisk next to those with 2nd options (no 1b's or fmvp sidekicks)


[INDENT]89' Pistons
90' Pistons
94' Rockets*
95' Rockets*
11' Mavs*
04' Pistons
09' Lakers*
10' Lakers*
15' Warriors*
19' Raptors*
90's Bulls*[/Indent]

[QUOTE=3ball;14290630]Rodman wasn't all-nba/league in 96'

And again, all-defense isn't included in super-team criteria, otherwise the 06' Cavs might be a super-team.. or the 10' Cavs

Ultimately, it's a joke - Rodman wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs and was 36 years old, so if he was a "star", then so was 2010 Shaq.. And he averaged 4/8 in the 97' Playoffs... Ultimately, the 96-98 Bulls weren't a super-team because they lacked 3 perennial all-stars or 2 perennial MVP candidates[/QUOTE]

nobody said rodman was all-nba. he was [B]all-team[/B] defense (1st). and jordan/pippen made all-teams on both ends.

once again, nobody else had that combination in 96. prove me wrong and name another 3 - otherwise chicago stays a superteam.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14290634]nobody said rodman was all-nba. he was [B]all-team[/B] defense (1st). and jordan/pippen were made all-teams on both ends.

once again, nobody else that combination in 96. prove me wrong and name another 3 - otherwise chicago stays a superteam.[/QUOTE]


There's no such thing as "all-team"

There's only all-nba/all-league, which Rodman was not

or there's all-defense, which Rodman wasn't in 97/98, nor does it count towards super-team anyway

Carry on

[QUOTE=3ball;14290635]There's no such thing as "all-team"

There's only all-nba/all-league, which Rodman was not

or there's all-defense, which Rodman wasn't in 97/98, nor does it count towards super-team anyway

Carry on[/QUOTE]

of course there is. you'e never heard of [B]1st TEAM all-defense[/B]?

no other team in 96 had 3 all-leaguers and/or all-teamers. only chicago did. if you can't find another team in 96 with that combination then chicago stays a superteam.

97 and 98 are also irrelevant. why do you keep bringing up years not mentioned?

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14290639]of course there is. you'e never heard of [B]1st TEAM all-defense[/B]?

no other team in 96 had 3 all-leaguers and/or all-teamers. only chicago did. if you can't find another team in 96 with that combination then chicago stays a superteam.

97 and 98 are irrelevant. why do you keep brining up years not mentioned?[/QUOTE]


Rodman wasn't all-league in 96' or all-nba

All-defense isn't all-league, and it doesn't count towards super-team anyway... All-defense isn't a criteria of super-team, otherwise there's a lot more super-teams that no one talks about

[QUOTE=3ball;14290641]Rodman wasn't all-league in 96' or all-nba[/QUOTE]

wrong. 1st team all defense in 96. aka all-league.

name another team like chicago, who had a combination of the three.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24;14290642]wrong. 1st team all defense in 96. aka all-league.

name another team like chicago, who had a combination of the three.[/QUOTE]


Rodman wasn't all-league in 96' or all-nba

All-defense isn't all-league, and it doesn't count towards super-team anyway...

All-defense isn't a criteria of super-team, otherwise there's a lot more super-teams that no one talks about

.
[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]


Beating a super-team means nothing if you have a super-team yourself.

So the only rings that matter are those with non-superteams, and also those with true 2nd options (no 1b's or fmvp sidekicks).

[I]Here's a list of non-superteam rings, with an asterisk next to those with 2nd options:[/I]


[INDENT]89' Pistons
90' Pistons
94' Rockets*
95' Rockets*
11' Mavs*
04' Pistons
09' Lakers*
10' Lakers*
15' Warriors*
19' Raptors*
90's Bulls*[/Indent]

[QUOTE=3ball;14290644]Rodman wasn't all-league in 96' or all-nba

All-defense isn't all-league, [B]and it doesn't count towards super-team anyway[/B]...

All-defense isn't a criteria of super-team, otherwise there's a lot more super-teams that no one talks about[/QUOTE]

Cause you said so?

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14290647]Cause you said so?[/QUOTE]
He doesn’t care about defense.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14290647]Cause you said so?[/QUOTE]


It's just an obvious fact

If guys with all-defense were counted towards a super-team, then lots of teams are super-teams

Furthermore, rodman wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98', when he was [U]much[/U] worse than 10' Shaq

[QUOTE=3ball;14290644]Rodman wasn't all-league in 96' or all-nba

All-defense isn't all-league, and it doesn't count towards super-team anyway...

All-defense isn't a criteria of super-team, otherwise there's a lot more super-teams that no one talks about[/QUOTE]

wrong again. we aren't going by your definition, we are going by the standard one.

[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/XYjz2SKY/423232.png[/IMG]

rodman is clearly all-league, just as indicated - but this is common knowledge. if you can't name another team in 96, with a combination of the 3, chicago will remain a superteam.

[QUOTE=3ball;14290649]It's just an obvious fact

[B]If guys with all-defense were counted towards a super-team, then lots of teams are super-teams
[/B]
Furthermore, rodman wasn't all-defense in 97' or 98', when he was [U]much[/U] worse than 10' Shaq[/QUOTE]

They're part of the equation, yes. Because as you [I]maybe[/I] know, a great defensive player makes a team better in general.

I know your equations are usually just 1 + 1 = 2. But as we all know basketball is more complex than simple addition.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14290652]They're part of the equation, yes. Because as you [I]maybe[/I] know, a great defensive player makes a team better in general.

I know your equations are usually just 1 + 1 = 2. But as we all know basketball is more complex that simple addition.[/QUOTE]


Nope, all-defense has never been included, so you're making up new shit because you have no facts to make your case

It's funny because most people are fooled into thinking Rodman was a star because of his pink hair, wedding dresses, and Carmen Electra ladies - but you're trying to justify it with his play, which is preposterous because defensive players aren't part of big 3's.. so just be fooled like everyone else and call him a star because he "seems" like one