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I was just watching a Wizard's game and noticing how fast Beal is. His change of direction is unreal. Then I remembered when Wall played on Washington and made Beal look pedestrian. Only players I've seen with the ball as fast maybe Iverson or Rose. Possibly D'Aaron Fox. Wall may have been the fastest player with the ball all time.
One of Walls problems is that he would go all out all the time. He would be out of control frequently on his drives which made him more predictable. There was no change of pace/change of direction. He rarely tried a Eurostep.
He would drive out of control, throw up an off balance shot which missed, fall to the ground and beg for a call.
Wasn't as fast as Westbrook or Rose, but he was fast.
John Walls is quite an athlete , problem is he has suffered so many injury setbacks.
I feel for him.
Can't imagine him on a great team.
1-9
[QUOTE=tontoz;14309840]One of Walls problems is that he would go all out all the time. He would be out of control frequently on his drives which made him more predictable. There was no change of pace/change of direction. He rarely tried a Eurostep.
He would drive out of control, throw up an off balance shot which missed, fall to the ground and beg for a call.[/QUOTE]
The Westbrook special lmao... I feel for you guys having to been led by those two knuckleheads over the past decade.
[QUOTE=tpols;14311258]The Westbrook special lmao... I feel for you guys having to been led by those two knuckleheads over the past decade.[/QUOTE]
Wizards fans have been pretty impressed by Russ actually. Yes he makes dumb turnovers and takes too many jumpers but his intensity has a bigger impact than I realized.
Last night was a good example. Beal went out with an injury Russ carried us the rest of the way for the W.
Over the last 19 games we are 15-4. Three of the losses are by a combined 5 points against the Mavs, bucks, and Spurs.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14311269]Wizards fans have been pretty impressed by Russ actually. Yes he makes dumb turnovers and takes too many jumpers but his intensity has a bigger impact than I realized.
Last night was a good example. Beal went out with an injury Russ carried us the rest of the way for the W.
Over the last 19 games we are 15-4. Three of the losses are by a combined 5 points against the Mavs, bucks, and Spurs.[/QUOTE]
I'm just saying thunder Westbrook used to do that all the time... Recklessly charge the lane and fling himself to the floor then scream for a call. When John Wall was healthy and prime he did lead you guys to the playoffs year after year and even into the 2nd round a handful of times, which is better than their current 9 seed.
[QUOTE=tpols;14311277]I'm just saying thunder Westbrook used to do that all the time... Recklessly charge the lane and fling himself to the floor then scream for a call. When John Wall was healthy and prime he did lead you guys to the playoffs year after year and even into the 2nd round a handful of times, which is better than their current 9 seed.[/QUOTE]
I remember. Wall never played with the effort that Russ does. He would always make the effort to get chase down blocks because they made the highlights. But when it came down to getting around picks or chasing down loose balls he couldn't be bothered most of the time.
Russ was playing with a partially torn quad early in the season. Not to mention we lost our starting center after 10 games.
Right now we are starting Len at center. He was cut by Toronto earlier this year.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14311283]I remember. Wall never played with the effort that Russ does. He would always make the effort to get chase down blocks because they made the highlights. But when it came down to getting around picks or chasing down loose balls he couldn't be bothered most of the time.
Russ was playing with a partially torn quad early in the season. Not to mention we lost our starting center after 10 games.
Right now we are starting Len at center. He was cut by Toronto earlier this year.[/QUOTE]
I guess you don’t like Wall but current Russ is nowhere near the player Wall was in 2017.
[QUOTE=RRR3;14311808]I guess you don’t like Wall but current Russ is nowhere near the player Wall was in 2017.[/QUOTE]
I have a Wall jersey BTW.
Westbrook since he has been healthy is better than any version of Wall. Any Wizards fan will tell you that. Wall had the same problem of taking too many jumpers, shooting poorly and turning it over. But he didn't have the relentless effort every night that Russ has even now.
Russ had a quad injury early in the season that he was trying to play through. Once he got over that he looks like a different player. Wizards fans don't miss Wall at all.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14311886]I have a Wall jersey BTW.
Westbrook since he has been healthy is better than any version of Wall. Any Wizards fan will tell you that. Wall had the same problem of taking too many jumpers, shooting poorly and turning it over. But he didn't have the relentless effort every night that Russ has even now.
Russ had a quad injury early in the season that he was trying to play through. Once he got over that he looks like a different player. Wizards fans don't miss Wall at all.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a huge John Wall fan but he did average 23/11/5 on 111 ORTG leading the Wizards to a 49-33 record. Westbrook averages 22/11/11 but on only 103 ORTG and a flat 50 TS. Westbrooks been the most inefficient player on your team for the whole year and they have a losing record with him. The injury excuse is weak because Westbrook has been producing like that for almost his entire career. There's really no case to be made that wizards version of him was befter than peak Wall. In the earlier Thunder days id say Westbrook was better though.
[QUOTE=tpols;14311914]I'm not a huge John Wall fan but he did average 23/11/5 on 111 ORTG leading the Wizards to a 49-33 record. Westbrook averages 22/11/11 but on only 103 ORTG and a flat 50 TS. Westbrooks been the most inefficient player on your team for the whole year and they have a losing record with him. The injury excuse is weak because Westbrook has been producing like that for almost his entire career. There's really no case to be made that wizards version of him was befter than peak Wall. In the earlier Thunder days id say Westbrook was better though.[/QUOTE]
That is the simple minded view from someone who hasn't watched the games. When Russ was playing through an injury he was bad. Since he has gotten healthy he has played better than Wall ever did.
There are long time fans on the Wizards RealGM board who are saying Russ is our season MVP in spite of Beal having a huge year. I don't agree but you won't find anyone who doesnt think Westbrook is currently playing better than Wall did in 2017. Let's not pretend that Wall has ever been an efficient scorer.
[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2079053[/url]
[QUOTE=tontoz;14311919]That is the simple minded view from someone who hasn't watched the games. When Russ was playing through an injury he was bad. Since he has gotten healthy he has played better than Wall ever did.
There are long time fans on the Wizards RealGM board who are saying Russ is our season MVP in spite of Beal having a huge year. I don't agree but you won't find anyone who doesnt think Westbrook is currently playing better than Wall did in 2017. Let's not pretend that Wall has ever been an efficient scorer.
[url]https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2079053[/url][/QUOTE]
Its a fact that 2017 Wall was a more efficient scorer and offensive producer. 111 ORTG > 103 ORTG, and 54 TS is > 50 TS. Wall also averaged more points with his team having a much better win %. Ive seen plenty of Westbrook and am not enamored with his hustle or fast pace since it doesnt generate good offenses because he uses so many possessions at a very inefficient rate. You guys have the 18th ranked offense this year and a losing record. Thats not a simple minded view, its just reality.
I really hate analytics and bs stats. It taints the game. John wall might be a better POINT guard but he has NEVER been and NEVER will be a better player than westbrook. Smh
[QUOTE=tpols;14311921]Its a fact that 2017 Wall was a more efficient scorer and offensive producer. 111 ORTG > 103 ORTG, and 54 TS is > 50 TS. Wall also averaged more points with his team having a much better win %. Ive seen plenty of Westbrook and am not enamored with his hustle or fast pace since it doesnt generate good offenses because he uses so many possessions at a very inefficient rate. You guys have the 18th ranked offense this year and a losing record. Thats not a simple minded view, its just reality.[/QUOTE]
In 2017 Beal had an ORTG of 117 and Porter had 129. He had much more help than Russ has now.
We lost our starting center 10 games in (Thomas Bryant had an ORTG of 127 and 130 the previous two seasons). We don't have a legit 3 on the roster and have frequently played with 3 pgs ( including Ish and Neto, guys who would struggle to get minutes on most teams). We also got crushed by covid and couldn't play or practice and had 6 straight games postponed.
Even in his best year Wall had a TS of 54%. Big deal. That is not enough to make up for all the hustle plays Russ makes. If you watched the games you could see that.
Also you are cherry picking the numbers. You ignore his league leading assists and his elite rebounding. His 19 shots per game is his fewest in several years. Russ is the main reason our centers have been so productive in spite of picking them up off the scrap heap. They are all putting up big numbers.
Prior to march 1 his TS was sub 50 each month and his ORTG was sub 100 each month. After March 1 it is a different story.
Like i said your view is simple minded and doesn't take into account the circumstances. Over the last 19 games the Wizards are 15-4. 3 of their losses are by a combined 5 points against the Spurs/Mavs/Bucks.
Beal only scored 23 points per game in 2017. He's averaging 31 this year on 114 ORTG. That huge volume gap easily supersedes a 3 point difference in ORTG. That's nothing. Westbrook otoh has the lowest ORTG of any starter or big minute player on your team. If Westbrook was really that good, he wouldn't be leading a 9 seed with a guy who has exploded to become a 30+ PPG scorer outproducing the entire league outside of one guy (Steph Curry).
I'm also not cherrypicking anything... I'm using the whole season sample size. [I]You[/I] are the one that's cherrypicking only specific stretches of the season that you like.
[QUOTE=tpols;14311956]Beal only scored 23 points per game in 2017. He's averaging 31 this year on 114 ORTG. That huge volume gap easily supersedes a 3 point difference in ORTG. That's nothing. Westbrook otoh has the lowest ORTG of any starter or big minute player on your team. If Westbrook was really that good, he wouldn't be leading a 9 seed with a guy who has exploded to become a 30+ PPG scorer outproducing the entire league outside of one guy (Steph Curry).
I'm also not cherrypicking anything... I'm using the whole season sample size. [I]You[/I] are the one that's cherrypicking only specific stretches of the season that you like.[/QUOTE]
You are not cherrypicking yet somehow you don't even mention that Russ is leading the league in assists or averaging 11.5 rebounds per game.
:facepalm
Russ has been injured and this is a covid year. How many teams had 6 straight games postponed due to Covid? How many teams lost their starting center 10 games in. Wall didn't have to deal with any of that in 2017. All the starters were health all season. This team doesn't even have legit starting 3. That team had Porter with a 129 ORTG. Our starting 3 (recently lost due to injury) was a rookie averaging 6 ppg.
I watched Wall in 2017. So did all Wizards fans. You won't find any that think peak Wall is better than Russ now. I am not concerned about how Russ played with a torn quad and a depleted team. Even now they are missing two starters.
You just want to pretend that you know what your talking about by looking at stats. You aren't fooling anyone.
ORTG factors in assists dude. Westbrook has more turnovers than anybody in the entire league by far, which is why is ORTG is still the lowest on the team despite his dimes.
Look if you're satisfied with a losing record and a 9 seed then that's up to you. I know I would much rather have a team that went 49-33 and whose best player out produced Westbrook by every metric except a couple rebounds. Im not cherrypicking 19 games... I'm looking at the full 60+ games the Wizards have played.
[QUOTE=tpols;14311976]ORTG factors in assists dude. Westbrook has more turnovers than anybody in the entire league by far, which is why is ORTG is still the lowest on the team despite his dimes.
Look if you're satisfied with a losing record and a 9 seed then that's up to you. I know I would much rather have a team that went 49-33 and whose best player out produced Westbrook by every metric except a couple rebounds. Im not cherrypicking 19 games... I'm looking at the full 60+ games the Wizards have played.[/QUOTE]
Again our record isn't just about Westbrook. If the team was healthy all year (like 2017), had legit starters at all positions (like 2017) then i am pretty sure the record would be a lot different. Using the teams record as a comparison is just a copout. All of the starters played at least 76 games that year.
Even at his best Wall was a half assed defender and inefficient scorer. His career TS and ORTG are worse than Westbrook's. Sure he looks good on paper in a year when the Wizards were the healthiest team in the league. So what?
Washington upsets Milwaukee in the first round
[QUOTE=hateraid;14309834]
the fastest player with the ball all time.
[/QUOTE]
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