How Taiwan Stayed Open During The Pandemic

I know a lot of people here have their opinions about how countries should handle a pandemic. This thread isn't about who's right and who's wrong. What I've learned during this experience is everyone has their own beliefs and nothing can change that. Instead of pickering about who's right and who's wrong, we should be thinking about what we should be doing in the next pandemic. I really do believe this will happen again within our lifetime.

Here's a video about how Taiwan was able to actually stay open throughout the pandemic.

[url]https://youtu.be/0fhaEIlGux4[/url]

In my mind, that is the definition of freedom, however it came at a cost.

They have a central healthcare system that tracks where you've been, what your health situation is etc. At the beginning of the pandemic they seperated the country into 2 groups. Low risk and high risk. The low risk people were just instructed to wear a mask, while the high risk people were quarantined for 2 weeks.

Do you guys think this strategy would work in the West? Also with people coming into the country, they were forced into quarantine hotels for 2 weeks, and their cell phones were tracked to make sure they never left the hotels. Do you guys think that would be something the people here would accept?

Me personally I'd be ok with being tracked and quarantined for 2 weeks if that means the whole country was able to stay opened..but I know some people here would probably call me a sheep.

Just wondering what everyones thoughts were about Taiwan's strategy.. and if we could adopt this in the next pandemic.

99.9%

[QUOTE=warriorfan;14384120]99.9%[/QUOTE]

Repeating 99.9% isn't going to prevent a lockdown in the next pandemic.

Also, who knows if the next virus will have a survival rate of 99.9%?

0% chance that would ever be tolerated in the western world, esp the U.S.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14384184]0% chance that would ever be tolerated in the western world, esp the U.S.[/QUOTE]

What do you think would be the main issues? The tracking of cell phones or the centralized digital database of healthcare?

I mean, I'd gladly let the govt track my cell phone if that meant my city gets to stay opened all year. I'd actually be extemely surprised if they don't do that already.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384186]What do you think would be the main issues? The tracking of cell phones or the centralized digital database of healthcare?

I mean, I'd gladly let the govt track my cell phone if that meant my city gets to stay opened all year. I'd actually be extemely surprised if they don't do that already.[/QUOTE]Well, we have climate change denialists still, so there's that. Too many people in this country deny science. It's absolutely crazy. Then you have the flatearthers who... i'm still not sure if they're serious or just seeking attention.

We have a large chunk of the population who still either think Covid's a hoax or 'just the flu'. No way they'd go for this.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384186]What do you think would be the main issues? The tracking of cell phones or the centralized digital database of healthcare?

I mean, [B]I'd gladly let the govt track my cell phone if that meant my city gets to stay opened all year. [/B]I'd actually be extemely surprised if they don't do that already.[/QUOTE]
This is where the issue starts

The government being able to track your every activity shouldn't be a requirement in order to have basic human liberty's

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384186]What do you think would be the main issues? The tracking of cell phones or the centralized digital database of healthcare?

I mean, I'd gladly let the govt track my cell phone if that meant my city gets to stay opened all year. I'd actually be extemely surprised if they don't do that already.[/QUOTE]

Let? They already do and have been since well before the pandemic.

[QUOTE=Manny98;14384202]This is where the issue starts

The government being able to track your every activity shouldn't be a requirement in order to have basic human liberty's[/QUOTE]

Liberty or privacy? Privacy is incompatible with modern technology. Liberty means different things to different people.

99.9%

[QUOTE=keep-itreal;14384229]99.9%[/QUOTE]

And what's the vaccine survival rate?

[QUOTE=Manny98;14384202]This is where the issue starts

The government being able to track your every activity shouldn't be a requirement in order to have basic human liberty's[/QUOTE]

I understand that but lets he real. They already have the ability to track us if they suspect a crime has been committed.

Question is, as citizens why do we care if they can track us if we have nothing to hide?

[QUOTE=keep-itreal;14384229]99.9%[/QUOTE]

Again. Repeating 99.9% non stop isn't going to stop a future lockdown. Also, you don't know if the next pandemic will have the same survival rates.

Point of this thread is to find ways to avoid future lockdowns.

Not a country.

[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;14384277]Not a country.[/QUOTE]

Because the CCP says its not? It operates like its own country.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384264]Again. Repeating 99.9% non stop isn't going to stop a future lockdown. Also, you don't know if the next pandemic will have the same survival rates.

Point of this thread is to find ways to avoid future lockdowns.[/QUOTE]

Read what you posted and realize just how stupid you sound.

Full lockdown over a virus with 99.9% survival rate? Did you ever wonder just how ****ing dumb this is? Of course not you braindead sheep :roll:

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384281]Because the CCP says its not? It operates like its own country.[/QUOTE]

No it doesn't. Not only does the CCP say it isn't, but so does 99% of the world. It's universally recognized.

[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;14384287]No it doesn't. Not only does the CCP say it isn't, but so does 99% of the world. It's universally recognized.[/QUOTE]

Does Taiwan pay taxes to China? If not, it operates on its own.

Also why do you need to bring this up in this thread? What does this have to do with the topic at hand?

[QUOTE=keep-itreal;14384286]Read what you posted and realize just how stupid you sound.

Full lockdown over a virus with 99.9% survival rate? Did you ever wonder just how ****ing dumb this is? Of course not you braindead sheep :roll:[/QUOTE]

Im a little confused why you are so triggered. Am I the one imposing the lockdowns?

Whether you like it or not, our govts WILL be locking us down if another pandemic comes along.

All I'm doing is focusing on 1 example of how to avoid a lockdown. Instead of freaking out and calling people sheeps why don't you tell us how to avoid this situation again? Maybe you can run for president..and your slogan can be 99.9% to avoid the next lockdown.

Was about to have some staycation there last year until flights were cancelled before the pandemic hit in march. So sad, these crappy turn of events. :(

"Me personally I wouldnt mind being tracked and locked up for the benefit of the country."

And that's why you're a stupid ass sheep. Sure lets allow government to put a literal physical leash on my neck! I'm progressive and helpful!

[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14384201]Well, we have climate change denialists still, so there's that. Too many people in this country deny science. It's absolutely crazy. Then you have the flatearthers who... i'm still not sure if they're serious or just seeking attention.

We have a large chunk of the population who still either think Covid's a hoax or 'just the flu'. No way they'd go for this.[/QUOTE]

That maybe true but I don't think these people enjoyed being locked down all year.

Even if you thought Covid was a hoax, would you agree to masking up and being tracked to avoid the lockdown? Or would you just stick with your beliefs and accept a lockdown?

[QUOTE=tpols;14384321]"Me personally I wouldnt mind being tracked and locked up for the benefit of the country."

And that's why you're a stupid ass sheep. Sure lets allow government to put a literal physical leash on my neck! I'm progressive and helpful![/QUOTE]

Why do you need to be so hostile over an opinion? I'm not calling you a retard for your beliefs. I guess some people here aren't capable of a normal discussion.

And if you think your govt doesn't already have access to your cell phone you're naive.

Another point. My beliefs aren't considered progressive. The whole "woke" movement was born with the internet. Most millenials have your beliefs. So you're actually being a progressive liberal.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384331]Why do you need to be so hostile over an opinion? I'm not calling you a retard for your beliefs. I guess some people here aren't capable of a normal discussion.

And if you think your govt doesn't already have access to your cell phone you're naive.

Another point. My beliefs aren't considered progressive. The whole "woke" movement was born with the internet. Most millenials have your beliefs. So you're actually being a progressive liberal.[/QUOTE]

They do but it isnt held against you unless you're involved in some major crime. Not trying to make leaving a certain place a crime. That's next level 1984 style surveilance and control.

[QUOTE=tpols;14384340]They do but it isnt held against you unless you're involved in some major crime. Not trying to make leaving a certain place a crime. That's next level 1984 style surveilance and control.[/QUOTE]

I get it. I don't like the idea of our cell phones being tracked too but if our govts gave us a choice of what taiwan did.. or do a lockdown.. would you be opened to it? I don't know about you, but our lockdowns were HELL while taiwan was having parties.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384341]I get it. I don't like the idea of our cell phones being tracked too but if our govts gave us a choice of what taiwan did.. or do a lockdown.. would you be opened to it? I don't know about you, but our lockdowns were HELL while taiwan was having parties.[/QUOTE]

I mean that sounds like they did what we did except young people weren't locked down too. Id prefer that of course,

[QUOTE=tpols;14384347]I mean that sounds like they did what we did except young people weren't locked down too. Id prefer that of course,[/QUOTE]

What I understood from the video it looks like they went into their database and identified high risk people that traveled or had health concerns. By health concerns i'm guessing they meant if you checked into a hospital with a fever or a cough in the last couple of weeks.

The people they identified as "high risk" were notified to be forced into a mandatory 2 week quarantine. They didnt specify the quarantine terms but I'm guessing it was similar to the quaratines they forced on people arriving in the country. (Cell phone tracking, local police officers calling you twice a day to check up)

It's very different from what we did.

Every country's situation is different. Taiwan might be successful at that but you try to implement that in another country, could be a huge disaster.

There are countries where the young people live with old people and they just won't/can't stay away from each other.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384109]I know a lot of people here have their opinions about how countries should handle a pandemic. This thread isn't about who's right and who's wrong. What I've learned during this experience is everyone has their own beliefs and nothing can change that. Instead of pickering about who's right and who's wrong, we should be thinking about what we should be doing in the next pandemic. I really do believe this will happen again within our lifetime.

Here's a video about how Taiwan was able to actually stay open throughout the pandemic.

[url]https://youtu.be/0fhaEIlGux4[/url]

[B]In my mind, that is the definition of freedom[/B], however it came at a cost.

They have a central healthcare system that tracks where you've been, what your health situation is etc. At the beginning of the pandemic they seperated the country into 2 groups. Low risk and high risk. The low risk people were just instructed to wear a mask, while the high risk people were quarantined for 2 weeks.

Do you guys think this strategy would work in the West? Also with people coming into the country, they were forced into quarantine hotels for 2 weeks, and their cell phones were tracked to make sure they never left the hotels. Do you guys think that would be something the people here would accept?

Me personally I'd be ok with being tracked and quarantined for 2 weeks if that means the whole country was able to stay opened..but I know some people here would probably call me a sheep.

Just wondering what everyones thoughts were about Taiwan's strategy.. and if we could adopt this in the next pandemic.[/QUOTE]

Your definition of freedom is:

-"a gov't healthcare system that tracks you, your health situation, etc,"

-a gov't that separates people into two groups: low and high risk

-a gov't that forces you to wear a mask

-a gov't that quarantines people the gov't considers "high risk"

:durantunimpressed:

Also, no evidence any of the pseudoscience did jack shit. Places like Cambodia had zero deaths w/ Covid in 2020 and they didn't even have a task force until March, a whole 6 months after the virus emerged. best data is probably the US, where there's [URL="https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1399868103140556801.html"]no positive correlation between stringency and outcomes between states.[/URL]


[QUOTE=n00bie;14384109]we should be thinking about what we should be doing in the next pandemic. I really do believe this will happen again within our lifetime.
[/QUOTE]

Haha, there's an influenza pandemic every year and nobody gives a shit. The only reason people gave a **** about coronavirus-2019 is because the media & gov't scared the shit outta people and people simply have NFC how many people die every year.

"Next pandemic"

please.

16 million people die of infectious diseases every year, many of whom are children. millions of children dying of starvation/malnutrition all the time. nobody gives a ****. a few million people (median age of death ~80 years old) die with a coronavirus over a year and everyone loses their shit and demands 7 billion people change their lives. **** that.

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14384478]Your definition of freedom is:

-"a gov't healthcare system that tracks you, your health situation, etc,"

-a gov't that separates people into two groups: low and high risk

-a gov't that forces you to wear a mask

-a gov't that quarantines people the gov't considers "high risk"

:durantunimpressed:

Also, no evidence any of the pseudoscience did jack shit. Places like Cambodia had zero deaths w/ Covid in 2020 and they didn't even have a task force until March, a whole 6 months after the virus emerged. best data is probably the US, where there's [URL="https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1399868103140556801.html"]no positive correlation between stringency and outcomes between states.[/URL]




Haha, there's an influenza pandemic every year and nobody gives a shit. The only reason people gave a **** about coronavirus-2019 is because the media & gov't scared the shit outta people and people simply have NFC how many people die every year.

"Next pandemic"

please.

16 million people die of infectious diseases every year, many of whom are children. millions of children dying of starvation/malnutrition all the time. nobody gives a ****. a few million people (median age of death ~80 years old) die with a coronavirus over a year and everyone loses their shit and demands 7 billion people change their lives. **** that.[/QUOTE]

Are you telling me this will be the last pandemic in our life time? Personally i'd love that to be true.. but unfortunately it doesn't look good.

Sars and Covid19 werent that far apart.. we just got very lucky with Sars.

We can go back and fourth about how Covid19 wasnt that deadly but do you really think the govt wont do another lockdown in the next pandemic?

But yes. My definition of freedom during a pandemic is Taiwan. All businesses opened, everyone had their normal way of life (except for maybe wearing a mask)

My definition of freedom is different from yours. I mean fk.. we are STILL locked down in Ontario. It's ridiculous.

Thurston calling others sheep is hilarious af on many levels lmao

[QUOTE=FKAri;14384232]And what's the vaccine survival rate?[/QUOTE]

I don't think the guy you quoted understands the difference between 0.1% and 0.001%. He probably thinks both are very close.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384309]Does Taiwan pay taxes to China? If not, it operates on its own.

Also why do you need to bring this up in this thread? What does this have to do with the topic at hand?[/QUOTE]

He sounds like a Chinese shill to me. Not the first time I've seen him bring it up in a completely unrelated thread. Ignore him.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384327]That maybe true but I don't think these people enjoyed being locked down all year.

Even if you thought Covid was a hoax, would you agree to masking up and being tracked to avoid the lockdown? Or would you just stick with your beliefs and accept a lockdown?[/QUOTE]

You are saying to just do nationwide quarantine for 2 weeks and masks for everyone able, right? Not for long-term?

[QUOTE=bladefd;14384598]You are saying to just do nationwide quarantine for 2 weeks and masks for everyone able, right? Not for long-term?[/QUOTE]

Yep.. basically at the 1st couple of months of the pandemic they closed their borders and went into their healthcare database to force everyone that checked into a hospital with symptoms to quarantine for 2 weeks.. plus they checked travel records and forced everyone that traveled to quarantine for 2 weeks.

I wonder if that would have worked in the West. 2 weeks of forced quarantine for 1 year of no lockdowns?

[QUOTE=iamgine;14384461]Every country's situation is different. Taiwan might be successful at that but you try to implement that in another country, could be a huge disaster.

There are countries where the young people live with old people and they just won't/can't stay away from each other.[/QUOTE]

I agree.. taiwan's strategy was easier to implement because of a smaller area.. plus their healthcare database was already digital and fully centralized. It would have been difficilt to implement in a larger country..but i wonder if we should all be planning for the next pandemic?

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384511]Are you telling me this will be the last pandemic in our life time? Personally i'd love that to be true.. but unfortunately it doesn't look good.

Sars and Covid19 werent that far apart.. we just got very lucky with Sars.

We can go back and fourth about how Covid19 wasnt that deadly but do you really think the govt wont do another lockdown in the next pandemic?

But yes. My definition of freedom during a pandemic is Taiwan. All businesses opened, everyone had their normal way of life (except for maybe wearing a mask)

My definition of freedom is different from yours. I mean fk.. we are STILL locked down in Ontario. It's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

1) No. I'm telling you that the very definition of a pandemic varies from person to person. In fact, one could reasonably argue that there's a influenza "pandemic" every year that kills hundreds of thousands of people, more children than coronavirus, effects nearly every country and infects hundreds of millions of people.

2) We should never want the gov't to lock us down. If you're scared, stay home. But to answer your question more directly, I never said that I "really think the govt wont do another lockdown." In fact, I believe it's entirely possible we have many of the same type of pseudoscientific restrictions in the future, as they're all being written into law as we speak.

3) My definition of freedom looks to be the same as yours, except yours includes the gov't tracking its citizens, forcing all of them wear a masks, and potentially quarantining them based on their perceived "risk".

4) I know I can sound mean AF on here, but I actually have nothing against you personally. You seem like a reasonable person, but super compliant with the official narrative you're given about Covid-19, despite it being a crock of shit.

16 million people die every year of infectious diseases, ~208 million since you started posting. ~4 million died with/from Covid-19 since Jan 2020, median age of death ~80 years old.

For the next 15 seconds, think about how much you cared about the 208 million people who died of infectious diseases (many of them children) since you started posting... and ask yourself why

And then ask why is it that nearly every gov't around the world has implemented policies that divide people, policies that shift blame onto the citizens, policies that bankrupt small businesses / self-dependents, increase the number of people depending on gov't by the millions, and handout trillions of dollars to their corporate interests. Was it to save the hospitals? Save lives? Or do you think that maybe the gov't has ulterior motives?

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384668]Yep.. basically at the 1st couple of months of the pandemic they closed their borders and went into their healthcare database to force everyone that checked into a hospital with symptoms to quarantine for 2 weeks.. plus they checked travel records and forced everyone that traveled to quarantine for 2 weeks.

I wonder if that would have worked in the West. 2 weeks of forced quarantine for 1 year of no lockdowns?[/QUOTE]

The virus emerged in 2019. They had millions of people fly in/out from China before they started mass testing. They didn't close their borders until March 19, 2020. I think there's a lot more to this than what you're looking at (lockdowns and test & trace). Cambodia, for instance, had zero deaths w/ Covid-19 in 2020 and they didn't even form a task force until March 2020.

But even so, in terms of sq miles, Taiwan would rank 42nd in area if it were a US state; it's a tiny island.

The virus was in the US in 2019. Some sort of "nationwide lockdown" (totally unconstitutional btw) in March 2020 (?), I assume by whomever the hated president is at the time, is completely out of the picture in the US, but also would be completely unworkable and the results will useless (in terms of virus outcomes) and destructive.

[QUOTE=Cleverness;14213285]So for exactly 1 month we will shut down pharmacies, nursing homes, elderly care facilities, veterinarians, airplanes, airports, buses, dentists, hospitals, contact tracers, administrators, urgent care centers, doctor offices, cancer screenings, roads, everyone in the energy sector, fire dept, ambulances, plumbing, waste disposal, public transportation, dept of defense, police, CIA, FBI, NSA, DEA, ATF, ICE, grocery stores, agriculture, suppliers, transporters, distributors, warehouses, IT, mfg of medical supplies, medical supply stores, banks, nuclear facilities, Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, ... you serious Clark?

Oh, and how will you enforce stopping 330 million people from interacting with each other? Will there be drones outside of everyone's house making sure they don't visit their neighbor or heaven forbid help their grandma around the house? Remember, the contact tracers think roughly 75% of transmission occurs within homes.[/QUOTE]

If you think any of what you're suggesting would work, feel free to start by answering the questions above.

[QUOTE=n00bie;14384668]Yep.. basically at the 1st couple of months of the pandemic they closed their borders and went into their healthcare database to force everyone that checked into a hospital with symptoms to quarantine for 2 weeks.. plus they checked travel records and forced everyone that traveled to quarantine for 2 weeks.

I wonder if that would have worked in the West. 2 weeks of forced quarantine for 1 year of no lockdowns?[/QUOTE]

You would have to close all travel into the country. We were still letting people in off cruise ships into April 2020. You would have to do a forced quarantine for 2 weeks if they were to come in. It's very difficult to implement and enforce that in a country as large as America tbh