12 major cities hit all-time homicide records

[url]https://abcnews.go.com/US/12-major-us-cities-top-annual-homicide-records/story?id=81466453&cid=social_twitter_abcn[/url]

A long read, but worth it.

[QUOTE][I][b]At least 12 major U.S. cities have broken annual homicide records in 2021 -- and there's still three weeks to go in the year.

Of the dozen cities that have already surpassed the grim milestones for killings, five topped records that were set or tied just last year.

"It's terrible to every morning get up and have to go look at the numbers and then look at the news and see the stories. It's just crazy. It's just crazy and this needs to stop," Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney said after his city surpassed its annual homicide record of 500, which stood since 1990.

Philadelphia, a city of roughly 1.5 million people, has had more homicides this year (521 as of Dec. 6) than the nation's two largest cities, New York (443 as of Dec. 5) and Los Angeles (352 as of Nov. 27). That's an increase of 13% from 2020, a year that nearly broke the 1990 record.

Chicago, the nation's third-largest city, leads the nation with 739 homicides as of the end of November, up 3% from 2020, according to Chicago Police Department crime data. Chicago's deadliest year remains 1970 when there were 974 homicides.

Philadelphia's homicide record was broken in the same week that Columbus, Indianapolis and Louisville eclipsed records for slayings.

Experts say there are a number of reasons possibly connected to the jump in homicides, including strained law enforcement staffing, a pronounced decline in arrests and continuing hardships from the pandemic, but that there is no clear answer across the board.

5 cities surpass records set in 2020
Other major cities that have surpassed yearly homicide records are St. Paul, Minnesota; Portland, Oregon; Tucson, Arizona; Toledo, Ohio; Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Austin, Texas; Rochester, New York; and Albuquerque, New Mexico, which broke its record back in August.

"The community has to get fed up," Capt. Frank Umbrino, of the Rochester Police Department, said at a news conference after the city of just over 200,000 people broke its 30-year-old record on Nov. 11. "We're extremely frustrated. It has to stop. I mean, it's worse than a war zone around here lately."

Indianapolis, Columbus, Louisville, Toledo and Baton Rouge broke records set in 2020, while St. Paul surpassed a record set in 1992.

Among the major cities on the brink of setting new homicide records are Milwaukee, which has 178 homicides, 12 short of a record set in 2020; and Minneapolis, which has 91 homicides, six shy of a record set in 1995.

According to the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Report released in September, the nation saw a 30% increase in murder in 2020, the largest single-year jump since the bureau began recording crime statistics 60 years ago.

'Nobody's getting arrested'
Robert Boyce, retired chief of detectives for the New York Police Department and an ABC News contributor, said that while there is no single reason for the jump in slayings, one national crime statistic stands out to him.

[SIZE=5]“Nobody’s getting arrested anymore," Boyce said. "People are getting picked up for gun possession and they're just let out over and over again."[/SIZE]

The FBI crime data shows that the number of arrests nationwide plummeted 24% in 2020, from the more than 10 million arrests made in 2019. The number of 2020 arrests -- 7.63 million -- is the lowest in 25 years, according to the data. FBI crime data is not yet available for 2021.

Christopher Herrmann, an assistant professor in the Department of Law & Police Science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City, said the decrease in arrests could be attributed to the large number of police officers who retired or resigned in 2020 and 2021.

A workforce survey released in June by the Police Executive Research Forum found the retirement rate in police departments nationwide jumped 45% over 2020 and 2021. And another 18% of officers resigned, the survey found, a development which coincided with nationwide social justice protests and calls to defund law enforcement agencies following the death of George Floyd at the hands of Minneapolis police officers.

On average, the survey found that law enforcement agencies are currently filling only 93% of the authorized number of positions available and Herrmann said many departments have been hampered in hiring because of an inability to get large classes into police academies due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

"I think, unfortunately, police departments are just losing a lot of their best and experienced officers and then because of the economic crisis, because of COVID, are having difficulties in hiring or just delays in hirings," Herrmann said.

Herrmann said he suspects that a confluence of other factors has also contributed to the spike in lethal violence over the last two years. He said the COVID-19 pandemic not only prompted a shutdown of courts and reduction in jail population to slow the spread of the virus but also derailed after-school programs and violence disruption programs.

Confluence of factors
"I wish there was one good solid reason that I could give you for the increases, but the reality is there is none," Herrmann, a former crime analyst supervisor for the New York City Police Department, told ABC News.

Herrmann said he was surprised to see the number of homicides going up in major cities across the United States after an overall 30% jump last year.

“I knew 2020 was going to be a bad year because of the (COVID-19) pandemic but I really thought that a lot of these numbers would come down in 2021 just because a lot of society reopened and reopened pretty quickly," Herrmann said. “We don’t have the unemployment problem, we don’t have a lot of the economic stresses, housing and food insecurities aren't as much of an issue. A lot of those things were leading to the mental health stressors that were plaguing the country."

As part of a recent ABC News series "Rethinking Gun Violence," Dr. Daniel Webster, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, said 2020 was the "perfect storm" of conditions where "everything bad happened at the same time -- you had the COVID outbreak, huge economic disruption, people were scared."

Webster added, "It's particularly challenging to know with certainty which of these things independently is associated with the increased violence. Rather it was the 'cascade' of events all unfolding in a similar time frame."

Chief LeRonne Armstrong of the Oakland, California, Police Department told ABC News recently that the lack of resources to fight crime is one of the reasons he suspects is why his city is seeing the highest number of homicides in decades. Oakland police have investigated at least 127 homicides in 2021, up from 102 in all of 2020. The Bay Area city's all-time high for homicides is 175 set in 1992.

Armstrong said his department's 676 officers is the smallest staff his agency has had in years, nearly 70 fewer officers than in 2020.

"To have 70, nearly 70 less officers a year later," Armstrong said, "is definitely going to have an impact on our ability to address public safety."

[/B][/I][/QUOTE]


Doesn't surprise me that some of the blame is being directed towards a lot of officers retiring or resigning in 2020. And that's what happens when you negatively paint police officers with a broad brush and expect different results.

So should we defund police? Or should we hire more police? I wonder what the families of the homicide victims think about that.

It's all systemic. As the wealth gap increases we will see an increase in crime, because in order for the rich to get richer they have to take that money from somewhere. Legalizing marijuana and prostitution will help. It'll make those industries safer and will help with GDP and tax revenue. Pardon prisoners with small drug charges, etc. It doesn't matter how many police officers you have if you can't arrest anyone. Government needs to take over prisons. Currently prisons are private and used as essentially labor camps. They're for profit, it's ridiculous. And if you're asking about 'the costs', tax dollars are already paying for the prisons, they run off of govt contracts and then strive to make as much profit as they can on top of that. And no matter how staffed your PD is, police don't even want to venture into the ghettos of Chicago and New York, where I'm sure most of the homicides occur.

Then we need gun control. I will be upfront in saying that I am a gunowner and I have several pistols, rifles and one shotgun. When my daughter is old enough I will teach her how to own, be safe with and take care of a firearm. I also enjoy shooting recreationally. That being said, we need more firearm education and we need to take responsibility. I don't think we'll get to the point where Switzerland's at(which is the ultimate model of freedom of arming yourself and gun safety) because of all of our systemic issues, but the fact that we had no legislative change post Sandy Hook is absolutely insane to me.

Duh duh duh duhfun da poleeez

[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14489853]It's all systemic. As the wealth gap increases we will see an increase in crime, because in order for the rich to get richer they have to take that money from somewhere. Legalizing marijuana and prostitution will help. It'll make those industries safer and will help with GDP and tax revenue. Pardon prisoners with small drug charges, etc. It doesn't matter how many police officers you have if you can't arrest anyone. Government needs to take over prisons. Currently prisons are private and used as essentially labor camps. They're for profit, it's ridiculous. And if you're asking about 'the costs', tax dollars are already paying for the prisons, they run off of govt contracts and then strive to make as much profit as they can on top of that. And no matter how staffed your PD is, police don't even want to venture into the ghettos of Chicago and New York, where I'm sure most of the homicides occur.

Then we need gun control. I will be upfront in saying that I am a gunowner and I have several pistols, rifles and one shotgun. When my daughter is old enough I will teach her how to own, be safe with and take care of a firearm. I also enjoy shooting recreationally. That being said, we need more firearm education and we need to take responsibility. I don't think we'll get to the point where Switzerland's at(which is the ultimate model of freedom of arming yourself and gun safety) because of all of our systemic issues, but the fact that we had no legislative change post Sandy Hook is absolutely insane to me.[/QUOTE]

What kind of gun control are you looking for?

One of the biggest issues that is coming to the forefront right now in this country are these stupid bail reform laws that are letting criminals back on the street. The guy that set the Fox News Christmas tree on fire two nights ago was already released yesterday. He committed arson! So a lot of these problems has nothing to do with guns in my opinion. I also think gun crimes need to be treated differently than any other crime. Harsher penalties. The problem is, these prisons are full. Too many low-level offenses in jail taking the spots that should be filled by these hardened criminals. Or....the idea that I prefer, is more prisons. As the country increases in population naturally and through mass immigration, crime is naturally going to spike. The thought from politicians of releasing criminals seems insane.

I own several guns. Around 15 last time I checked. I carry all the time, but I'm a law-abiding citizen. I think "Gun Control", at least the way the Liberals and some Conservatives want it, is the severe limitation of gun ownership. Biden just prevented foreign ammo from being shipped and sold here in the States. I think he was thinking about doing that, or actually did it, can't remember. While American ammo is far superior, the real reason a ban on foreign ammo was undertaken is to make it harder for available purchase. That's the kind of Gun Control I've seen so far. As well as all the wrong and deceitful information spread by members of government and the media on the good ol' AR-15. Cause you know, the AR stands for "Assault Rifle" :oldlol:

[video=youtube;C8LhLxa034o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8LhLxa034o[/video]

[QUOTE=jstern;14490527][video=youtube;C8LhLxa034o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8LhLxa034o[/video][/QUOTE]

But please explain to me how the citizens of these cities keep voting for Liberals who enact these ridiculous laws that make it more dangerous for them on the streets. Shoplifting is up. Anti-Asian and Jewish attacks are up. Murder is up. All up due to Liberal policies and the adoption of what the mob wanted in the whole defund the police movement. But yet these people keep voting for the same people to remain in office. I'm dumbfounded by this. There cannot be that many millions of Americans who are absolutely that retarded.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490530]But please explain to me how the citizens of these cities keep voting for Liberals who enact these ridiculous laws that make it more dangerous for them on the streets. Shoplifting is up. Anti-Asian and Jewish attacks are up. Murder is up. All up due to Liberal policies and the adoption of what the mob wanted in the whole defund the police movement. But yet these people keep voting for the same people to remain in office. I'm dumbfounded by this. There cannot be that many millions of Americans who are absolutely that retarded.[/QUOTE]

[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/us/politics/crime-biden.html"]Biden Aims to Bolster Police Departments as Homicides Increase[/URL]

Biden is providing more funding to police than Trump did.

[QUOTE=Off the Court;14490537][URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/23/us/politics/crime-biden.html"]Biden Aims to Bolster Police Departments as Homicides Increase[/URL]

Biden is providing more funding to police than Trump did.[/QUOTE]

You do realize that when you defund something, and then you refund it, it comes across as an increase, right? Tell me you're aware of that.


I'll save you the time and trouble for future posts. Nothing Biden has done and will do will be positive for this country. There.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490541]Nothing Biden has done and will do will be positive for this country.[/QUOTE]
Biden never defunded anything but we all know your opinions on Biden's entire tenure are predetermined you don't have to point that out.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490530]But please explain to me how the citizens of these cities keep voting for Liberals who enact these ridiculous laws that make it more dangerous for them on the streets. Shoplifting is up. Anti-Asian and Jewish attacks are up. Murder is up. All up due to Liberal policies and the adoption of what the mob wanted in the whole defund the police movement. But yet these people keep voting for the same people to remain in office. I'm dumbfounded by this. There cannot be that many millions of Americans who are absolutely that retarded.[/QUOTE]

Narrative is MUCH more powerful. If 5,000 people are robbed an killed in NYC next year, then there are going to be millions who were not personally affected by it. Orange man bad would still be a much bigger factor in the way they vote. It's really that simple.

[QUOTE=Off the Court;14490546]Biden never defunded anything but we all know your opinions on Biden's entire tenure are predetermined you don't have to point that out.[/QUOTE]

His Party did. And he is the leader of the Party. So if he refunds it, he's only undoing what his Party did. Biden is no savior.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490500]What kind of gun control are you looking for?[/QUOTE]I honestly don't know, I just know things need to change. There are too many public shootings. Unfortunately there isn't a controlled experiment to compare it to, so no matter what it's going to be a trial and error system. And it's going to inconvenience law-abiding gun owners like yourself. I'm sorry that's just the reality, and I'm fine with it(just speaking for myself) if it means safer schools for our kids. Personally, I think things are more systemic like I listed in my earlier post.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490500]One of the biggest issues that is coming to the forefront right now in this country are these stupid bail reform laws that are letting criminals back on the street. The guy that set the Fox News Christmas tree on fire two nights ago was already released yesterday. He committed arson! So a lot of these problems has nothing to do with guns in my opinion. I also think gun crimes need to be treated differently than any other crime. Harsher penalties. The problem is, these prisons are full. Too many low-level offenses in jail taking the spots that should be filled by these hardened criminals. Or....the idea that I prefer, is more prisons. As the country increases in population naturally and through mass immigration, crime is naturally going to spike. The thought from politicians of releasing criminals seems insane.[/QUOTE]No doubt. I can't get behind the whole open borders thing I think it's asinine. I hear the dumbest arguments for it too like "oh we have plenty of space in Oklahoma and Wyoming..." like stfu you know? Despite having all that open space and insanely high living costs in NY and LA, people still flock to the most desirable cities. And if we allow mass immigration like you said it'll be no different, most of them are going to try to go to the larger cities and making them even more crowded.

And I have no problem with legal immigration. America was built on it. We take the brightest chinese, indian etc students and they subsequently create competition as well as contributing directly to the US market. And before that we had the irish and italian immigrants who built NY. Immigration is key, but unfortunately with our population ballooning to 330mil now we have to be selective. Unless we want wealth gap like China's and China's 996 work culture.

Prisons can't be privatized and for-profit. We need to focus on criminal reform than simply just punishment.

As far as police go, I don't know if defunding them is the answer. Maybe more of it going towards training than military gear. There's definitely a systemic issue in some states. Nevada police are incentivized to seize large amounts of cash and that actually helps fund their bonuses. It's quite disgusting.

[video=youtube;MkeS_0NQUZs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkeS_0NQUZs[/video]

That being said, I've never had a bad run-in with the police and I definitely want to be able to call them if I ever feel unsafe.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490500]I own several guns. Around 15 last time I checked. I carry all the time, but I'm a law-abiding citizen. I think "Gun Control", at least the way the Liberals and some Conservatives want it, is the severe limitation of gun ownership. Biden just prevented foreign ammo from being shipped and sold here in the States. I think he was thinking about doing that, or actually did it, can't remember. While American ammo is far superior, the real reason a ban on foreign ammo was undertaken is to make it harder for available purchase. That's the kind of Gun Control I've seen so far. As well as all the wrong and deceitful information spread by members of government and the media on the good ol' AR-15. Cause you know, the AR stands for "Assault Rifle" :oldlol:[/QUOTE]lol I'm not gonna pretend like I know what AR stands for without googling it, and I own one. If I had to guess I would have said assault or arming rifle, but yeah if I'm holding office and giving a speech on it I would have done my homework.

I don't think limiting firearm purchase for law abiding citizens is the answer. NH has lax gun laws and is annually one of the top states in firearm sales and manufacturing, so I'm sure they have a ton of gun ownership and yet they're one of the safest states. The problem will always be poorer areas in general. Make those poorer areas densely populated like the inner cities? It's basically a powderkeg.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490552]His Party did. And he is the leader of the Party. So if he refunds it, he's only undoing what his Party did. Biden is no savior.[/QUOTE]

[url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-police-amid-rising-crime-11622066307[/url]

Most of the cities that actually did that stupid shit reversed months ago. Now Biden is adding even more funding. $350 Billion more which is significant. If I am capable of saying defund the police was retarded you should be capable of admitting this is a good move by Biden. If your savior Trump made this move you would cheer it.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490530]But please explain to me how the citizens of these cities keep voting for Liberals who enact these ridiculous laws that make it more dangerous for them on the streets. Shoplifting is up. Anti-Asian and[B][SIZE=6] Jewish attacks [/SIZE][/B]are up. Murder is up. All up due to Liberal policies and the adoption of what the mob wanted in the whole defund the police movement. But yet these people keep voting for the same people to remain in office. I'm dumbfounded by this. There cannot be that many millions of Americans who are absolutely that retarded.[/QUOTE]

that is fair though..... have you seen Santa Inc?

:mad:

[QUOTE=Off the Court;14490559][url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-police-amid-rising-crime-11622066307[/url]

Most of the cities that actually did that stupid shit reversed months ago. Now Biden is adding even more funding. $350 Billion more which is significant. If I am capable of saying defund the police was retarded you should be capable of admitting this is a good move by Biden. If your savior Trump made this move you would cheer it.[/QUOTE]

I tell you what I'd like to see. I'd like to see all the families of the victims that died by gun violence since the defund movement started, sue the pants off the respective city. Just one big class action lawsuit. Then, when those responsible are brought down, then we can all get behind an increase in police budget and a safer America in general. But right now, you have a criminal in DeBlasio about to run for Governor of the State. And Lori Lightfoot? Lori Lightfoot should be hung from a noose. And no, not cause she's Black, cause she's an enemy to every person living in Chicago right now. She was on record the other day blaming retail stores for poor security measures instead of the actual criminals looting stores and beating up staff and security guards.

[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14490555]I honestly don't know, I just know things need to change. There are too many public shootings. Unfortunately there isn't a controlled experiment to compare it to, so no matter what it's going to be a trial and error system. And it's going to inconvenience law-abiding gun owners like yourself. I'm sorry that's just the reality, and I'm fine with it(just speaking for myself) if it means safer schools for our kids. Personally, I think things are more systemic like I listed in my earlier post.

No doubt. I can't get behind the whole open borders thing I think it's asinine. I hear the dumbest arguments for it too like "oh we have plenty of space in Oklahoma and Wyoming..." like stfu you know? Despite having all that open space and insanely high living costs in NY and LA, people still flock to the most desirable cities. And if we allow mass immigration like you said it'll be no different, most of them are going to try to go to the larger cities and making them even more crowded.

And I have no problem with legal immigration. America was built on it. We take the brightest chinese, indian etc students and they subsequently create competition as well as contributing directly to the US market. And before that we had the irish and italian immigrants who built NY. Immigration is key, but unfortunately with our population ballooning to 330mil now we have to be selective. Unless we want wealth gap like China's and China's 996 work culture.

Prisons can't be privatized and for-profit. We need to focus on criminal reform than simply just punishment.

As far as police go, I don't know if defunding them is the answer. Maybe more of it going towards training than military gear. There's definitely a systemic issue in some states. Nevada police are incentivized to seize large amounts of cash and that actually helps fund their bonuses. It's quite disgusting.

[video=youtube;MkeS_0NQUZs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkeS_0NQUZs[/video]

That being said, I've never had a bad run-in with the police and I definitely want to be able to call them if I ever feel unsafe.

lol I'm not gonna pretend like I know what AR stands for without googling it, and I own one. If I had to guess I would have said assault or arming rifle, but yeah if I'm holding office and giving a speech on it I would have done my homework.

I don't think limiting firearm purchase for law abiding citizens is the answer. NH has lax gun laws and is annually one of the top states in firearm sales and manufacturing, so I'm sure they have a ton of gun ownership and yet they're one of the safest states. The problem will always be poorer areas in general. Make those poorer areas densely populated like the inner cities? It's basically a powderkeg.[/QUOTE]

Fair points. And I think everyone is in favor of legal immigration. I certainly hope the Left doesn't think Conservatives are against any type of immigration cause that's just another big lie. We favor legal immigration cause we favor checks and balances. To not know who is coming in and out of this country is asinine on all levels. My parents came here legally, so everyone should wait in line and do it the right way. Not come over just for profit, but for a love of being American. Which is a whole other problem in itself now that we are allowing so many people in from the Middle East right now and it is proven that these people do not assimilate. But that's for a whole other topic. The best and most appreciative migrants that I have encountered are from the poorest of countries like in Africa, Haiti, the Caribbean, Central and South America, and some of Europe. So yes, for reasons you state, legal immigration is a great tool this country has for continued success.

And yes, we will turn into China and be unsustainable if we don't slow it down. Look at Europe. Europe will be unrecognizable in 30 years.

In terms of criminal reform, I think we need to focus on mental health and that should be a top issue for any administration right now. Just like the Fox News arsonist. He's mentally unstable. So what does the city do? They release back into the streets. Do you think a mentally unstable man like that will show up for his court date? Ha! But in terms of criminal reform, that will be tough. The type of criminality here in the United States is unmatched in the rest of the world I think. So it will be tough. Does California still have the 3 strikes and you're out rule? Never mind, that's a redundant question :lol. And in New York, stop and frisk worked. But of course, the snowflakes ruined it cause they realized that a majority of the perpetrators committing these offenses were minorities. Mind you, most of the crime committed in cities like these are committed by minorities.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14490568]In terms of criminal reform, I think we need to focus on mental health and that should be a top issue for any administration right now. Just like the Fox News arsonist. He's mentally unstable. So what does the city do? They release back into the streets. Do you think a mentally unstable man like that will show up for his court date? Ha! But in terms of criminal reform, that will be tough. The type of criminality here in the United States is unmatched in the rest of the world I think. So it will be tough. Does California still have the 3 strikes and you're out rule? Never mind, that's a redundant question :lol. And in New York, stop and frisk worked. But of course, the snowflakes ruined it cause they realized that a majority of the perpetrators committing these offenses were minorities. Mind you, most of the crime committed in cities like these are committed by minorities.[/QUOTE]Yeah I don't know what changes we can really make. Chinese people started off like shit in this country too, facing racism and building railroads. They have this 'work your ass off until you make yourself undeniable' attitude that makes them and indians the highest median earning households today. No one rolled out the red carpet for them to succeed, they just grabbed the US by the balls and handled their shit. And I get there's racism still going on today. I've always said I can understand why black people are skeptical about the vaccine because of what happened to them during the crack epidemic. But at some point you need to stop pointing at everyone else for your problems and realize the whites who happen to be the ignorant racist whites who hate blacks are also the racist whites who hate asians... and asians are kicking ass.

[QUOTE=j3lademaster;14490555]
I don't think limiting firearm purchase for law abiding citizens is the answer. NH has lax gun laws and is annually one of the top states in firearm sales and manufacturing, so I'm sure they have a ton of gun ownership and yet they're one of the safest states.[B] The problem will always be poorer areas in general.[/B] Make those poorer areas densely populated like the inner cities? It's basically a powderkeg.[/QUOTE]

Gun violence is not associated with all poor areas, just poor urban areas. In poor rural areas there is very little gun violence, there is very little gun violence in rural america in general... the vast majority of gun violence is gang related and occurs in major cities, and handguns are responsible for 95% or more of this gun violence.

Many of the cities with the highest levels of gun violence (like Chicago) have special rules making it more difficult to own a gun... meanwhile in most of rural Illinois gun laws are quite lax and gun violence is very low.