did mike always have maximum defense attention becos he cant pass?

other stars like bran and magic use a ball dominator style becos they know how to pass and will punish a double team quickly. they have a better style that is more successful for team results and team play.

but if you are like mike and cant pass...why not double team him? he cant pass anyway so its maximum defense attentoin

was this was caused other chicago bull players to fall in the corners of the court waiting for a shot since mike didnt know how to pass? woudl ball dominator give him more then six finals in 20 years?

And1allday/shooter about to spend another Saturday night at home on ish, starting threads about MJ

You will always be pathetic :roll:

[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14632787]And1allday/shooter about to spend another Saturday night at home on ish, starting threads about MJ

You will always be pathetic :roll:[/QUOTE]

are you okay m8?

Also, who has the most turnovers in history?

And the most turnovers in playoff history?

Spoiler alert, it's someone who isn't great at passing

[QUOTE=And1AllDay;14632785]other stars like bran and magic use a ball dominator style becos they know how to pass and will punish a double team quickly. they have a better style that is more successful for team results and team play.

but if you are like mike and cant pass...why not double team him? he cant pass anyway so its maximum defense attentoin

was this was caused other chicago bull players to fall in the corners of the court waiting for a shot since mike didnt know how to pass? woudl ball dominator give him more then six finals in 20 years?[/QUOTE]

You really should do some research before you post.

[QUOTE=colts19;14632790]You really should do some research before you post.[/QUOTE]

Even with research, the dude blatantly lies...hes never cared about truth

[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14632789]Also, who has the most turnovers in history?

And the most turnovers in playoff history?

Spoiler alert, it's someone who isn't great at passing[/QUOTE]

Michael Jordan.

He gets max troll attention we know that much. But you're still an idiot.

Condom m8 fuming again as usual.

[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14632787]And1allday/shooter about to spend another Saturday night at home on ish, starting threads about MJ

You will always be pathetic :roll:[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497012-theres-nothing-left-to-prove-i-will-stay-retired-until-le7631-gets-passed-bran-goat[/url]

Glucose Shooter is addicted to ISH and celebacy. What a miserable existence.

[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;14632834][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497012-theres-nothing-left-to-prove-i-will-stay-retired-until-le7631-gets-passed-bran-goat[/url]

Glucose Shooter is addicted to ISH and celebacy. What a miserable existence.[/QUOTE]

this guy loves me :oldlol:


play in traffic retart

[QUOTE=And1AllDay;14632840]this guy loves me :oldlol:


play in traffic retart[/QUOTE]

Howany threads have you made exclusively about me? :oldlol:

Need an answer on each thread below.

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head[/url]
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired[/url]
[url]https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for[/url]


[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT[/url]

Record against teams with an SRS of 5.0 or higher.
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497187-Record-against-teams-with-an-SRS-of-5-0-or-higher[/url]

Not 3, not 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Playoff Mode Activated or A Storm is Coming
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494319-Not-3-not-4-5-6-7-8-or-Playoff-Mode-Activated-or-A-Storm-is-Coming/page2[/url]


Playoff Mode: ACTIVATED
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473762-Playoff-Mode-ACTIVATED[/url]

Lowest Scoring Supporting Cast Overall Playoffs
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?463869-Lowest-Scoring-Supporting-Cast-Overall-Playoffs/page3[/url]


[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499837-Greatest-floor-raise-of-all-time/page2[/url]
Lebron played with Shaq who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's and lost in round 2. Lebron played with Peak Duncan who had won 2 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's and won bronze medal. Lebron played with Peak Wade who won finals mvp and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron played with Derrick Rose who won mvp under age 30 which was the same as Kevin Durant who won mvp under 30 while both were on Golden State and Cleveland. Lebron played with mulitple PER leaders as well and now Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and more triple doubles than Oscar Robertson. Yet despite all of that Lebron lost with all of them.


Jarrett Allen vs Gobert and Jarrett Allen vs Lebron
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499786-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Gobert-and-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Lebron[/url]

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500431-Lakers-were-1-in-Preseason-Odds-in-2021-and-Suns-were-14[/url]
Was #1 in Preseason odds and lost to a 14th seed in odds

[url]https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html[/url]

And Devin Booker walked them down in the playoffs with Devin outplaying Lebron. :confusedshrug:


[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500416-Why-did-Pelinka-surround-Lebron-with-a-bullshit-roster[/url]
He has peak Anthony Davis, the best player on the 2020 squad and the reason the Lakers did anything as the 2019 Lakers missed the playoffs and 2021 Lakers lost in round 1 when AD wasn't around. He has Prime Melo who won a scoring title and all time leader in scoring for the Olympics. He has Dwight Howard a 3x DPOY and a guy who beat Lebron without HCA. He has Westbrook who is the modern day Oscar Robertson and also won league mvp along with average a Triple Double 4 years in a row. He also has Rondo who is a hall of famer.

Why didn't he play it against Dwight Howard in 2009 when Dwight was dominating [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?459570-How-is-it-even-possible-to-lose-to-Dwight-Howard-in-a-series-with-HCA/page10?[/url] Or against Duncan or KG or Dirk? Why did he run away from KD a guy at his position?
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head[/url]

Why didn't he do **** against Booker in the playoffs as well?

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron[/url]


Devin Booker broke Lebron
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500264-Devin-Booker-broke-Lebron&p=14500724[/url]


[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503966-3ball-why-can-LeBron-win-with-Irving-but-KD-can-t&p=14584482#post14584482[/url]

Lebron won bronze medal twice and lost with HCA 3x. Jordan only won gold medal and never lost with HCA. Prove me wrong!

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500440-Russell-Westbrook-leading-the-league-in-Triple-Doubles-Thus-far-in-2022-Season[/url]
[url]https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/triple-double-leaders-2021-2022-stats[/url]

Expected Championships Won and Titles Over Expected
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500379-Expected-Championships-Won-and-Titles-Over-Expected/page3&p=14503600[/url]


How did LeBron go 10-16 vs Kawhi? 7-12 vs Shaq? 17-23 vs Curry?
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500334-How-did-LeBron-go-10-16-vs-Kawhi-7-12-vs-Shaq-17-23-vs-Curry[/url]

Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #1
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497028-Top-50-All-Time-List-Shot-Clock-Era-1&p=14426360&viewfull=1#post14426360[/url]


Difference between Lebron and Tmac?
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494830-Difference-between-Lebron-and-Tmac[/url]
Both 0-2 with HCA against 50+ win teams until they joined forces with someone who won as the man. Also won bronze medals.

Tmac lost to Utah in 2007 while Lebron was losing to a career loser in Dwight Howard and also Carlos Arroyo in the Olympics with peak Tim Duncan on his squad despite playing more minutes than Hakeem even played on the 1996 Olympic team.



LeBron's message that makes the NBA shake: A storm is coming
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500734-LeBron-s-message-that-makes-the-NBA-shake-A-storm-is-coming[/url]

[url]https://www.marca.com/en/more-sports/2021/04/09/6070b833ca47418e588b45e9.html[/url]


[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?480740-Vasileios-Spanoulis-gt-gt-gt-Lebron-James[/url]
Outplayed Lebron in FIBA and caused America to get another bronze medal and then Greece got spanked in Gold medal final.:oldlol:

[url]http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/game/p/gid/A/grid/75/rid/5152/sid/3507/_/2006_FIBA_World_Championship/statistic.html[/url]


First Time Ever a team with 2 guys who won MVP missed the playoffs
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503543-First-Time-Ever-a-team-with-2-guys-who-won-MVP-missed-the-playoffs[/url]


[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503981-Why-does-Lebron-have-2-bronze-medals-while-KD-only-has-gold-medals&p=14584371#post14584371[/url]

[IMG]https://media0.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif[/IMG]

I wish op’s dad gave him more attention so he didn’t turn out to be such a f.agget

this is a good point. when teams know you're a selfish chucker who only passes as a last resort...they have no fear sending an extra defender.

Not really its because he had the QUICKEST 1 STEP EVER. MJ developed into a very good passer in his peak years he just wasn't on Magic's, Bird's or Lebron's level as a passer.

[QUOTE=And1AllDay;14632785]other stars like bran and magic use a ball dominator style becos they know how to pass and will punish a double team quickly. they have a better style that is more successful for team results and team play.

but if you are like mike and cant pass...why not double team him? he cant pass anyway so its maximum defense attentoin

was this was caused other chicago bull players to fall in the corners of the court waiting for a shot since mike didnt know how to pass? woudl ball dominator give him more then six finals in 20 years?[/QUOTE]

You can't double team LeBron because coaches have come to the conclusion that Bron is too gifted / strong of a passer and double teams barely work.

[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;14632843]Howany threads have you made exclusively about me? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

he loves me :oldlol:

play in traffic retart

Michael Jordan Averaged A Triple Double When He Played As A Point Guard: 33.6 PPG, 11.4 APG, 10.8 rebounds per game

[video=youtube;YbaqbclM08c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaqbclM08c[/video]
[video=youtube;REHWe0C-gjc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REHWe0C-gjc[/video]
[video=youtube;IFsukgQNUeQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFsukgQNUeQ[/video]

[QUOTE=Bacchus;14633037]Michael Jordan Averaged A Triple Double When He Played As A Point Guard: 33.6 PPG, 11.4 APG, 10.8 rebounds per game[/QUOTE]

no one cares about 10 games sample in the 90s :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Bacchus;14633037]Michael Jordan Averaged A Triple Double When He Played As A Point Guard: 33.6 PPG, 11.4 APG, 10.8 rebounds per game[/QUOTE]

Yea but Jordan's playmaking that year was a bit overrated. He averaged a good amount of assists as a PG where he drew comparisons to Magic Johnson, mainly because his passing was elite. But his playmaking didn't contribute to the offense like some would believe.

Chicago's ORTG ranking in the first 57 games with MJ as SG was [B]12th[/B] in the league.

Chicago's ORTG ranking in the last 25 games with MJ as PG was [B]18th[/B] in the league.

Chicago averaged [B]106 PPG[/B] the first 57 games, [B]100 PPG[/B] the final 25 games. They shot the ball at a [B]50%[/B] clip in the first 89 games, but just [B]47%[/B] in the final 25 games.

I was too young to watch MJ then but I think most people would tell you that MJ circa 1991-93 was a much better playmaker than he was in even 1989 when he went on that streak of triple-doubles, largely due to stat-padding.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14633019]You can't double team LeBron because coaches have come to the conclusion that Bron is too gifted / strong of a passer and double teams barely work.[/QUOTE]

Another low-IQ post from a dumb poster.

Bronie doesn't get double teamed because he sucks in the post and lacks a mid-range game. All he can do is stiff arm his way to the hoop (and in recent years, shoot threes). Granted, he's very good at driving to the basket, but that's not something worth double-teaming.

Jordan always got doubled because he was as close to unstoppable in the man-on-man game as you could get. He'd kill you finishing at the hoop, in the post, or anywhere else.

[QUOTE=Full Court;14633101]Another low-IQ post from a dumb poster.

Bronie doesn't get double teamed because he sucks in the post and lacks a mid-range game. All he can do is stiff arm his way to the hoop (and in recent years, shoot threes). Granted, he's very good at driving to the basket, but that's not something worth double-teaming.

Jordan always got doubled because he was as close to unstoppable in the man-on-man game as you could get. He'd kill you finishing at the hoop, in the post, or anywhere else.[/QUOTE]

I've never met a smart Jordan stan and this post is the reason why. Low IQ post. Not surprised.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14633102]I've never met a smart Jordan stan and this post is the reason why. Low IQ post. Not surprised.[/QUOTE]

Yep, as I suspected. You have no actual rebuttal.

Full Court wins again.

:hammertime:

Not that it's hard winning an argument against a borderline imbecile...

[QUOTE=8Ball;14633019]You can't double team LeBron because coaches have come to the conclusion that Bron is too gifted / strong of a passer and double teams barely work.[/QUOTE]

Thread cliffs:

LeBron doesn't get double teamed because coaches know he is the most devastating passer of all time.

Budenhozer, popovich, casey, steve kerr.

All COY winners never double team Bron after like 1 game of trying to do so.

All of said publicly that double teaming Bron was suicide.

I respect opinions of coaches over casual retards.

[QUOTE=8Ball;14633109]Thread cliffs:

LeBron doesn't get double teamed because coaches know he is the most devastating passer of all time.

Budenhozer, popovich, casey, steve kerr.

All COY winners never double team Bron after like 1 game of trying to do so.

All of said publicly that double teaming Bron was suicide.

I respect opinions of coaches over casual retards.[/QUOTE]

The "most devastating passer of all time" wouldn't have the most turnovers of all time, genius. :lol

Nice try. Maybe if you were less concerned with cuddling Bronie's nuttsack you'd make an intelligent post for the first time.

[QUOTE=Full Court;14633119]The "most devastating passer of all time" wouldn't have the most turnovers of all time, genius. :lol

Nice try. Maybe if you were less concerned with cuddling Bronie's nuttsack you'd make an intelligent post for the first time.[/QUOTE]

8ball is just straight up dishonest or stupid

[QUOTE=8Ball;14633109]Thread cliffs:

LeBron doesn't get double teamed because coaches know he is the most devastating passer of all time.

Budenhozer, popovich, casey, steve kerr.

All COY winners never double team Bron after like 1 game of trying to do so.

All of said publicly that double teaming Bron was suicide.

I respect opinions of coaches over casual retards.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: raped his azz :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14633131]8ball is just straight up dishonest or stupid[/QUOTE]

What do you expect from a guy who lies about being rich and successful? :(

[QUOTE=Bacchus;14633037]Michael Jordan Averaged A Triple Double When He Played As A Point Guard: 33.6 PPG, 11.4 APG, 10.8 rebounds per game[/QUOTE]

lol tard has no clue how shamelessly jordone was stat padding to chase trip dubs and prove he wasn't a one dimensional chucker.

[QUOTE=And1AllDay;14633146]:oldlol: raped his azz :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Nope. Youre the same person.

This is the equivalent of you jack!ng 0ff then bragging about it to strangers :lol

MJ averaged more assists than Lebron for the first 9 years of their playoff careers (85-93' vs 06-14') before the Warriors' pace and space era made offense easy and increased everyone's stats.

Furthermore, Jordan averaged more assists with low turnovers and without dominating the ball, so he had the teammate fits, development and chemistry needed to win organically

Btw OP.... the reason that Jordan could defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals) is because he had the necessary elite jumpshooting skill - this defeats maximum defensive attention...

But more importantly, ball-dominators like Luka/Lebron can't carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they need all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match their scoring in the Finals.. Otoh, off-ball experts like Curry/MJ can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they can win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen that require carrying the scoring load, aka defeat maximum defensive attention.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14633220]MJ averaged more assists than Lebron for the first 9 years of their playoff careers (85-93' vs 06-14') before the Warriors' pace and space era made offense easy and increased everyone's stats.

Furthermore, Jordan averaged more assists with low turnovers and without dominating the ball, so he had the teammate fits, development and chemistry needed to win organically

Btw OP.... the reason that Jordan could defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load in Finals) is because he had the necessary elite jumpshooting skill - this defeats maximum defensive attention...

But more importantly, ball-dominators like Luka/Lebron can't carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they need all-time scorers and elite 1st options at sidekick to nearly match their scoring in the Finals.. Otoh, off-ball experts like Curry/MJ can carry the scoring load with sufficient brand to beat Finals teams, so they can win with secondary scorers at sidekick like Wiggins or Pippen that require carrying the scoring load, aka defeat maximum defensive attention.[/QUOTE]

Averaging more assists doesn't necessarily make you better. While MJ's passing is underrated (as showcased with the OP), he was more of a shot creator than an actual playmaker. His ability to pass was there, yes, but he wasn't on the level of a Magic, Bird, or even LeBron.

I think part of that comes from his mentality. LeBron is a pass first kind of player, so he draws up plays with that specific intent. MJ is score first, and likewise, his mentality followed suit.

You're consistently conflating shot creation, passing, and playmaking. LeBron excels more in playmaking and passing, where as MJ was more of a shot creator who was an excellent passer but [I]not[/I] an excellent playmaker.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14633238]Averaging more assists doesn't necessarily make you better. While MJ's passing is underrated (as showcased with the OP), he was more of a shot creator than an actual playmaker. His ability to pass was there, yes, but he wasn't on the level of a Magic, Bird, or even LeBron.

I think part of that comes from his mentality. LeBron is a pass first kind of player, so he draws up plays with that specific intent. MJ is score first, and likewise, his mentality followed suit.

You're consistently conflating shot creation, passing, and playmaking. LeBron excels more in playmaking and passing, where as MJ was more of a shot creator who was an excellent passer but [I]not[/I] an excellent playmaker.[/QUOTE]


You just haven't watched Jordan much or don't observe well.. A beginner eye for the game would explain why Lebron's beginner skills (high screen roll ball-dominance) is all you can notice.

You think Jordan only passed when doubled and wasn't good at setting guys up or breaking down a defense - so you just haven't noticed or purposefully ignored.. Simple as that.

Double-teams aren't nearly enough to get Jordan ahead of Lebron in assists for 9 years.. That's weak and desperate reasoning on your part... The reality is that Jordan averaged more assists than Lebron for 9 years while winning more because he could do whatever he wanted with the ball - he was Michael Jordan.. No one in history broke down defenses easier, more efficiently/quicker, or more OFTEN than Jordan.. His goat maneuverability among defenders and shot-making elevated a goat passing ability that you apparently missed.. .. He made every type of pass or passing play that Lebron made and more.. He could dominate the ball with the best of em', but he's also the only guy in history that averaged 10+ assists in a series without starting at point guard or bringing the ball up (91' Finals).

And the proof is shown in the historical record - the Associated Press called Jordan the best PG in the league after 10 games at point guard in 1989 - his averages during the 24-game stint at point guard were 30/9/11, which included a stretch of 9 triple-doubles in 10 games.. This was 30 years before the "30/10/10" era where Luka and Westbrook make these numbers standard practice..

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14633238]Averaging more assists doesn't necessarily make you better. While MJ's passing is underrated (as showcased with the OP), he was more of a shot creator than an actual playmaker. His ability to pass was there, yes, but he wasn't on the level of a Magic, Bird, or even LeBron.

I think part of that comes from his mentality. LeBron is a pass first kind of player, so he draws up plays with that specific intent. MJ is score first, and likewise, his mentality followed suit.

You're consistently conflating shot creation, passing, and playmaking. LeBron excels more in playmaking and passing, where as MJ was more of a shot creator who was an excellent passer but [I]not[/I] an excellent playmaker.[/QUOTE]

Exactly this.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14633242]You just haven't watched Jordan much or don't observe well.. A beginner eye for the game would explain why Lebron's beginner skills (high screen roll ball-dominance) is all you can notice.[/QUOTE]

I watched MJ for almost all of his career, so yes, I've watched MJ a lot.

[QUOTE]You think Jordan only passed when doubled and wasn't good at setting guys up or breaking down a defense - so you just haven't noticed or purposefully ignored.. Simple as that.[/QUOTE]

I never said he only passed when doubled.

[QUOTE]Double-teams aren't nearly enough to get Jordan ahead of Lebron in assists for 9 years.. That's weak and desperate reasoning on your part... The reality is that Jordan averaged more assists than Lebron for 9 years while winning more because he could do whatever he wanted with the ball - he was Michael Jordan.. No one in history broke down defenses easier, more efficiently/quicker, or more OFTEN than Jordan.. His goat maneuverability among defenders and shot-making elevated a goat passing ability that you apparently missed.. .. He made every type of pass or passing play that Lebron made and more.. He could dominate the ball with the best of em', but he's also the only guy in history that averaged 10+ assists in a series without starting at point guard or bringing the ball up (91' Finals).[/QUOTE]

You basically said what I said...."and shot making elevated a goat passing ability"....i.e., shot creation and passing. You're just being a stubborn Jordan stan who thinks I'm criticizing your idol. I'm not.

[QUOTE]And the proof is shown in the historical record - the Associated Press called Jordan the best PG in the league after 10 games at point guard in 1989 - his averages during the 24-game stint at point guard were 30/9/11, which included a stretch of 9 triple-doubles in 10 games.. This was 30 years before the "30/10/10" era where Luka and Westbrook make these numbers standard practice..[/QUOTE]

Good, and what was Chicago's production as a result?

CHI in '89 w/MJ as SG: 109.4 ORTG (12th in the league), 106.1 PPG, 50.2% FG%

CHI in '89 w/MJ as PG: 107.9 ORTG (18th in the league), 100.1 PPG, 46.5% FG%

This is the key. It doesn't matter if MJ was a great passer because playmaking is what matters in this discussion. The fact remains is that in those games, Chicago performed worse with MJ at PG.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14633250]I watched MJ for almost all of his career, so yes, I've watched MJ a lot.



I never said he only passed when doubled.



You basically said what I said...."and shot making elevated a goat passing ability"....i.e., shot creation and passing. You're just being a stubborn Jordan stan who thinks I'm criticizing your idol. I'm not.


[/Quote]



MJ made every kind of pass and play, including many passes and plays that Lebron can't make due to superior maneuverability amongst defenders... Literally goatt maneuverability and completely unmatched by anyone.

And the 89' Bulls won more than the 08' Cavs and was arguably the greatest carry-job in history and the most upsets in the playoffs.. The difference between the 85-90' Bulls casts and Lebron's 04-10' casts is enormous..

Heck, do you want to know why the 09' Cavs won more games then the 90' Bulls?.. It's because they had the #3 defense compared to #19 for the 90' Bulls, while Mo was superior to Pippen offensively across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48, scoring, efficiency).

So how do you explain Lebron having a better team on both sides of the ball, yet Jordan still beat him to titles?... Jordan won the next year in 91', while Lebron lost as the massive favorite for 2 more years

[QUOTE=And1AllDay;14632785]other stars like bran and magic use a ball dominator style becos they know how to pass and will punish a double team quickly. they have a better style that is more successful for team results and team play.

but if you are like mike and cant pass...why not double team him? he cant pass anyway so its maximum defense attentoin

was this was caused other chicago bull players to fall in the corners of the court waiting for a shot since mike didnt know how to pass? woudl ball dominator give him more then six finals in 20 years?[/QUOTE]

Damn 20 years? I agree , he should have passed the ball more in 94, 99, 00 and specially in 01

And heres a fun fact, jordan ball made him more acomplished than both magic and bran

Next!

[QUOTE=Spurs m8;14632787]And1allday/shooter about to spend another Saturday night at home on ish, starting threads about MJ

You will always be pathetic :roll:[/QUOTE]

Right? This jackass just furiously thinking "what thread can I make today to throw shade at the GOAT because need to tear him down so my boi LeBron can be on his level..." :roll: He's the very definition of the word loser..:lol