Kevin McHale only has two 40 point games

I find that stat strangely low. Kevin McHale, "the great" Kevin McHale, only has two 40 point games under his belt. He actually achieved that feet in the same week, in back to back games at that. Doing it back it back is great work, however he never reached that 40 point plateau again. Why is that?

And Kevin didn't even win player of the week for that run. It went to Darrell Griffith. So, the greatest week in his career, he didn't even win the award.

He actually never won a player of the week award.


[B]Top Power Forwrds 40+ point games:[/B]
47 Bob Pettit
44 Karl Malone
37 Elvin Hayes
29 Giannis Antetekoumpou
21 Charles Barkley
20 Dirk Nowitzki
5 Tim Duncan
4 Kevin Garnett
2 Kevin McHale

You would think someone the stature of Kevin McHale would have multiple 40 point games, but that is not the case.

[B]For good measure, PF's 20+ rebound games:[/B]
54 Charles Barkley
36 Kevin Garnett
26 Tim Duncan
12 Karl Malone
5 Giannis Antetekoumpou
1 Dirk Nowitzki
0 McHale
N/A Bob Pettit
N/A Elvin Hayes

Hayes and Pettit's rebounding totals aren't available but they most likely have the most on this list.

OP still upset McHale was voted ahead of Hayes by ISH.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665143]

He actually never won a player of the week award.


[B]Top Power Forwrds 40+ point games:[/B]
47 Bob Pettit
44 Karl Malone
37 Elvin Hayes
29 Giannis Antetekoumpou
21 Charles Barkley
20 Dirk Nowitzki
[B]5 Tim Duncan
4 Kevin Garnett
2 Kevin McHale[/B]

You would think someone the stature of Kevin McHale would have multiple 40 point games, but that is not the case.

For good measure, PF's 20+ rebound games:
54 Charles Barkley
36 Kevin Garnett
26 Tim Duncan
12 Karl Malone
5 Giannis Antetekoumpou
1 Dirk Nowitzki
0 McHale
N/A Bob Pettit
N/A Elvin Hayes

Hayes and Pettit's rebounding totals aren't available but they most likely have the most on this list.[/QUOTE]


Relative to total games played I would guess Big Ticket and Big Fundamental are lookin at a similar proportional total.

Hayes PPG from '73-'79 when he played for winning teams: 21.5 ppg on only 46 FG% and 41 mpg

McHale PPG from '84-'90: 21.6 ppg on 57 FG% on only 35 mpg.

Hayes had his best scoring years on bad teams where they didn't have much options, when he got put into a winning team, like McHale was for the majority of his career, his scoring was on par with McHale's but his efficiency was a tier below and was putting in more minutes to get those points.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665150]Hayes PPG from '73-'79 when he played for winning teams: 21.5 ppg on only 46 FG% and 41 mpg

McHale PPG from '84-'90: 21.6 ppg on 57 FG% on only 35 mpg.

Hayes had his best scoring years on bad teams where they didn't have much options, when he got put into a winning team, like McHale was for the majority of his career, his scoring was on par with McHale's put his efficiency was a tier below and was putting in more minutes to get those points.[/QUOTE]

Yea; OP is also ignoring the fact that McHale came off the bench [I]more[/I] than he started in his career.

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14665152]Yea; OP is also ignoring the fact that McHale came off the bench [I]more[/I] than he started in his career.[/QUOTE]

I actually made a thread on McHale being a bench player the majority of his career.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665163]I actually made a thread on McHale being a bench player the majority of his career.[/QUOTE]

So was Manu

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665150]Hayes PPG from '73-'79 when he played for winning teams: 21.5 ppg on only 46 FG% and 41 mpg

McHale PPG from '84-'90: 21.6 ppg on 57 FG% on only 35 mpg.

Hayes had his best scoring years on bad teams where they didn't have much options, when he got put into a winning team, like McHale was for the majority of his career, his scoring was on par with McHale's but his efficiency was a tier below and was putting in more minutes to get those points.[/QUOTE]
This isn't about Hayes, it's about McHale. Why didn't his high fg% lead to more points? And why do you bring up minutes? Hayes was their best scorer of course he gonna play more minutes.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665164]So was Manu[/QUOTE]
No one has Manu over George Gervin.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665166]No one has Manu over George Gervin.[/QUOTE]

As they shouldn't. Gervin > Hayes

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665165]This isn't about Hayes, it's about McHale. Why didn't his high fg% lead to more points? And why do you bring up minutes? Hayes was their best scorer of course he gonna play more minutes.[/QUOTE]

Why did Hayes only averaged 21-22 ppg despite playing 40 mpg?

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665168]Why did Hayes only averaged 21-22 ppg despite playing 40 mpg?[/QUOTE]
Why did old 40 year old Elvin Hayes outplay young 20 year old Kevin McHale?
Hayes stats vs McHale from 81-84
14/ 7 vs 12/6.
Papa was putting it on nephew.

Poor OP

40 year old Hayes? lol.

I like how you didn't include the minutes per game and fg% during their matchups.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665171]40 year old Hayes? lol.

I like how you didn't include the minutes per game and fg% during their matchups.[/QUOTE]
As well as your basketball knowledge is, McHale is going to win a FG% debate. Only Wilt and Shaq Gilmore had high FG% like Kevin did.
Hayes shot on par with other MVP bigs like Cowens and Willis Reed and played as many minutes as guys like Bob Lanier and Bob McAdoo. McHale isn't over any of them either.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665173]As well as your basketball knowledge is, McHale is going to win a FG% debate. Only Wilt and Shaq Gilmore had high FG% like Kevin did.
Hayes shot on par with other MVP bigs like Cowens and Willis Reed and played as many minutes as guys like Bob Lanier and Bob McAdoo. McHale isn't over any of them either.[/QUOTE]
Willis Reed: 52.3 TS%
Elvin "the brick" Hayes: 49.1 TS%

[QUOTE=RRR3;14665174]Willis Reed: 52.3 TS%
Elvin "the brick" Hayes: 49.1 TS%[/QUOTE]
That's nice to know. Dave Cowens is 49.9 TS. What is his nickname? Or the other Dave, DeBusschere. 47.2 TS.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665173]
Hayes shot on par with other MVP bigs like Cowens and Willis Reed [/QUOTE]
That's not saying much, Cowens & Reed were never really known as elite scorers, but Reed was 50 fg% during his prime years. Hayes was consistently around 44-45%.

Reason why Cowens & Reed might be ranked ahead of McHale is because they both won MVPs, something Hayes never won, but I don't think they are that much ahead of McHale on the all-time list like you think. I would rather have McHale as opposed to those guys on my team.

This is maybe a juvenile point, but eveytime we have an all-time draft you always see McHale get drafted by someone, you usually see guys like Cowens, Reed, & Hayes go undrafted. McHale in his prime was just a better two way player than Cowens, Reed, & Hayes. Hayes is the only one who can give you elite defense like McHale does, but on the offensive end McHale is superior just because he is basically unguarded, while Hayes was usually inefficient.

[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14665178]That's not saying much, Cowens & Reed were never really known as elite scorers, but Reed was 50 fg% during his prime years. Hayes was consistently around 44-45%.

Reason why those guys might be ranked ahead of McHale is because they both won MVPs, something Hayes never won, but I don't think they are that much ahead of McHale on the all-time list like you think. I would rather have McHale as opposed to those guys on my team.

This is maybe a juvenile point, but eveytime we have an all-time draft you always see McHale get drafted by someone, you usually see guys like Cowens, Reed, & Hayes go undrafted. McHale in his prime was just a better two way player than Cowens, Reed, & Hayes. Hayes is the only one who can give you elite defense like McHale does, but on the offensive end McHale is superior just because he is basically unguarded, while Hayes was usually inefficient.[/QUOTE]
My gripe with McHale (not personal I don't know the man, but liked him as our coach here in Houston lol.) He's the only player that can get away with so few accolades and get ranked highly. Literally other players get ranked high because they have many accolades.
He has one All-NBA team.
Now a guy like Willis Reed gets ranked high with only one but he played in the same era as Wilt, Russell and Kareem. Cut the guy some slack.
Om the other end McHale was losing spots to Bernard King, Tom Chambers and Alex English on All-NBA squads

I'm actually getting Reed confused with Wes, Wes Unseld has 1 All NBA team.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665176]That's nice to know. Dave Cowens is 49.9 TS. What is his nickname? Or the other Dave, DeBusschere. 47.2 TS.[/QUOTE]
Who the hell thinks DeBusschere was a great scorer? He was known for his defense.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665179]My gripe with McHale (not personal I don't know the man, but liked him as our coach here in Houston lol.) He's the only player that can get away with so few accolades and get ranked highly. Literally other players get ranked high because they have many accolades.
He has one All-NBA team.
Now a guy like Willis Reed gets ranked high with only one but he played in the same era as Wilt, Russell and Kareem. Cut the guy some slack.
Om the other end McHale was losing spots to Bernard King, Tom Chambers and Alex English on All-NBA squads[/QUOTE]

The man was still a 3x champion, had an incredible peak, made 7 All-star teams, & made the All-Defensive Team 6 times.

I understand a guy like Hayes has more accolades, but as a straight up basketball player, McHale's edge is enough for me to put him over Hayes even if we consider accolades. And I guess Hayes' reputation as a team cancer has something to do with him being ranked lower as well.

McHale was the top scorer of the 1986 finals and shot like 57% FG. He destroyed Ralph Sampson. If Barkley says he is the best player he ever faced at his position, its gotta count for something.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14665187]Who the hell thinks DeBusschere was a great scorer? He was known for his defense.[/QUOTE]
I get it. I just wanted to have the 2 Dave's together lol.

[QUOTE=Round Mound;14665190]McHale was the top scorer of the 1986 finals and shot like 57% FG. He destroyed Ralph Sampson. If Barkley says he is the best player he ever faced at his position, its gotta count for something.[/QUOTE]

McHale's '86 postseason production is legendary stuff. Probably the best a sidekick has ever performed in a postseason minus '01 Kobe, '17 & '18 KD/Curry (whoever you consider the sidekick, lol), & maybe '20 AD

[QUOTE=Round Mound;14665190]McHale was the top scorer of the 1986 finals and shot like 57% FG. He destroyed Ralph Sampson. If Barkley says he is the best player he ever faced at his position, its gotta count for something.[/QUOTE]
Barkley is a short 4 man. McHale is 6'10 with long arms and great post moves. That equals disaster lol.

Oh, hell nah. You trying this again, bro?

Come on, man!

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin;14665203]Oh, hell nah. You trying this again, bro?

Come on, man![/QUOTE]

:oldlol:

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665200]Barkley is a short 4 man. McHale is 6'10 with long arms and great post moves. That equals disaster lol.[/QUOTE]

True but Barkley has guarded many other 6'10 ft or taller players but they where stiffs compared to McHale. McHale had the finest post moves ever. Plus he was a great defender and shot blocker. He guarded SFs and PFs.

[QUOTE=Round Mound;14665218]True but Barkley has guarded many other 6'10 ft or taller players but they where stiffs compared to McHale. McHale had the finest post moves ever. Plus he was a great defender and shot blocker. He guarded SFs and PFs.[/QUOTE]

He played center and PF. He may have guarded a sf like Dantley who posted up

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665163]I actually made a thread on McHale being a bench player the majority of his career.[/QUOTE]

Gotchya. I guess the point is, McHale did what he had to do for his team and proved himself on all ends of the court. He played off the bench most of the time and that impacts anyone's ability to get a rhythm, let alone dominate as far as scoring is concerned.

McHale averaged only 31 MPG for his career. Compare that with KG (34.5), Duncan (34.0), or Malone (37.2). The fact that he only scored 40 points twice is not indicative of his scoring ability. Heck, Duncan only had 5 games according to your research, but anyone who watched Duncan play between 1999-2004 knew that Duncan could get 40 if he wanted.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle;14665179]My gripe with McHale (not personal I don't know the man, but liked him as our coach here in Houston lol.) He's the only player that can get away with so few accolades and get ranked highly. Literally other players get ranked high because they have many accolades.
He has one All-NBA team.
Now a guy like Willis Reed gets ranked high with only one but he played in the same era as Wilt, Russell and Kareem. Cut the guy some slack.
Om the other end McHale was losing spots to Bernard King, Tom Chambers and Alex English on All-NBA squads[/QUOTE]

So this is what I don't understand. How can you knock McHale for All-NBA selections when you know 60% of the time, he was coming off the bench? Think about the other forwards around at the time:

Bird
Malone
B. Williams
King
Barkley
English
Cummings
Nique
Dr. J
Sampson
Dantley
Chambers

Also, it's a lot harder to get All-NBA selections when there was only All-NBA 1st and All-NBA 2nd Teams. All-NBA 3rd Team doesn't actually happen until [U]1989[/U]. McHale was 31 by then.

When you consider there are less spots, significant talent, and the fact that McHale came off the bench for most of his career, then it becomes apparent why he didn't win more All-NBA selections.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14665245]He played center and PF. He may have guarded a sf like Dantley who posted up[/QUOTE]

No he guarded SFs for real. He regularly guarded guys like Dominique, Bernard King, Scottie Pippen, Worthy, Orlando Wooldridge, etc.

I've watched him guard Bernard King, Moses Malone, and Manute Bol in the same game. He shut down Dominique in the 1986 ECSF, holding him to 39% FG.

McHale was a certified DPOY-level defender. He never won the award but he was voted by the coaches as the best defender in 1987.

[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503000-Kevin-McHale-was-voted-the-best-defender-in-the-NBA-in-1987-by-the-coaches"]Kevin McHale was voted the best defender in the NBA in 1987 by the coaches[/URL]

[QUOTE=HoopsNY;14665250]So this is what I don't understand. How can you knock McHale for All-NBA selections when you know 60% of the time, he was coming off the bench? Think about the other forwards around at the time:

Bird
Malone
B. Williams
King
Barkley
English
Cummings
Nique
Dr. J
Sampson
Dantley
Chambers

Also, it's a lot harder to get All-NBA selections when there was only All-NBA 1st and All-NBA 2nd Teams. All-NBA 3rd Team doesn't actually happen until [U]1989[/U]. McHale was 31 by then.

When you consider there are less spots, significant talent, and the fact that McHale came off the bench for most of his career, then it becomes apparent why he didn't win more All-NBA selections.[/QUOTE]
He was making All-Star and All-Defensive teams at the same time so I don't think that was it.

86 forwards were Bird/Nique and English/Barkley
87 1st team selection
88 forwards were Bird/Barkley and Malone/Wilkins
89 forwards were Barkley/Malone, Mullin/Chambers and Wilkins/Cummings. So he couldn't make it over Terry Cummings. 🤔

WTF who's such a loser they wanna doxx Kevin McHale? What'd he do to you? He's as boring as vanilla ice cream and undoubtedly good at basketball. Weird hill to die on.