Has any other player created a dynasty with less help than Stephen Curry?

We keep hearing about how Curry has supposedly played on stacked teams but looking at what he started with the above question is more appropriate. Which other NBA dynastic team started with less?

[Img]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRF4Bwi_5wqctE99QGfr1PNv94_K0JP1OExAw8SGHCZQn3FlBP7[/img]

Jordan

Steph has played alongside what, 3 all stars at least...and won 2 of the chips with 3 all stars by his side.

Let's not act like KD was nothing and Thompson isn't one of the best shooters ever.

Always lots of solid role players...

Calm down, big dog

The Celtics won 29 games the year Bird was drafted. 3 championships in 6 years after that.

Luka Doncic.

since dating Ayesha Curry is the same as dating a Kardashian. Yes.

other players lack the drive to push themselves due to the excessive attention they receive.

Failed to make the playoffs with a 24 ppg & 6 apg teammate and two more 16 ppg teammates at an older age than LeBron was when he led a team full of bums to the finals.
Needed team to draft two future hall of famers and employ a future hall of fame coach. As soon as one of these components was missing, he failed to make the playoffs again (2020-21).
His "dynasty" creating legacy is very much similar to that of jordon. The only difference is that Curry didn't end up in the playoffs with his 30 win seasons and jordon ended up playing in the playoffs because a 30-52 record was enough for a playoff spot in jordon's early days.

A post injury 15ppg in the playoffs defensive oriented David Robinson in 99 was easily the best teammate Duncan had till he was 3 rings in.

They won the title isolating him over and over while Elliot needing a kidney transplant had like 2 points and Drob might have had 12. Second ring he’s got young TP still so inconsistent Pop was pulling him for Speedy Claxton and Manu who I think did about 9ppg on 40% shooting and couldn’t go long without needing to be pulled. Tony obviously grew to be a very good player but the closest thing to a superstar he played with between 1998 and Leonard’s last couple seasons there was Manu when he’d fully adjusted to the nba and that was generally off the bench for like 28 minutes.

The spurs were rarely some super talented team.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14666884]The Celtics won 29 games the year Bird was drafted. 3 championships in 6 years after that.[/QUOTE]

Bird is an interesting comparison to Curry. In 2012 the year Steph had the ankle injury that threatened his career the Warriors went 23-43 in a shortened seasoned so almost the same win rate as the 1979 Celtics. With Steph given the keys to the team the next year the Warriors also went on to win 3 championships in 6 years.

[QUOTE=Stephonit;14666940]Bird is an interesting comparison to Curry. In 2012 the year Steph had the ankle injury that threatened his career the Warriors went 23-43 in a shortened seasoned so almost the same win rate as the 1979 Celtics. With Steph given the keys to the team the next year the Warriors also went on to win 3 championships in 6 years.[/QUOTE]

So I answered your question.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14666951]So I answered your question.[/QUOTE]

You gave an answer. But does it definitively answer my question? I don't think so. Bird's main supporting cast of McHale and Parish were drafted higher and older than Klay and Draymond. When the Celtics won in 1981 Parish drafted 8th was 27 and McHale drafted 3rd was 23. Klay and Draymond were 24 in 2015. Tiny Archibald was a more decorated player than anyone Curry played with at the beginning of his career but was coming off an Achilles injury. Bird did play his first year with Cowens. Even Maravich was on the team at the time but clearly various factors I'm unaware of conspired to make that team underperform expectations the reputation of those players might lead one to set.

[QUOTE=Stephonit;14666954]You gave an answer. [B]But does it definitively answer my question?[/B] I don't think so. Bird's main supporting cast of McHale and Parish were drafted higher and older than Klay and Draymond. When the Celtics won in 1981 Parish drafted 8th was 27 and McHale drafted 3rd was 23. Klay and Draymond were 24 in 2015. Tiny Archibald was a more decorated player than anyone Curry played with at the beginning of his career but was coming off an Achilles injury. Bird did play his first year with Cowens. Even Maravich was on the team at the time but clearly various factors I'm unaware of conspired to make that team underperform expectations the reputation of those players might lead one to set.[/QUOTE]
I don't expect that any answer will be sufficient for you.

[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14666958]I don't expect that any answer will be sufficient for you.[/QUOTE]

The question was posed not to benefit solely myself. I am aiming higher.

[QUOTE=Stephonit;14666869]We keep hearing about how Curry has supposedly played on stacked teams but looking at what he started with the above question is more appropriate. Which other NBA dynastic team started with less?[/QUOTE]


rookie Klay > rookie Pippen


88' PIPPEN...................... 7.9 ppg... bench-warmer

12' KLAY......................... 12.5 ppg... starter
12' DAVID LEE................. All-NBA
12' MONTA ELLIS............. All-Star


People simply forget that Jordan is the most organic winner of all-time - he started with absolutely nothing, while Curry enjoyed Klay as a starter in 2012 and multiple all-star teammates.

Meanwhile, Lebron entered the league with the East all-star center on his team and added a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran high seed.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666967]rookie Klay > rookie Pippen


88' PIPPEN...................... 7.9 ppg... bench-warmer

12' KLAY......................... 12.5 ppg... starter
12' DAVID LEE................. All-NBA
12' MONTA ELLIS............. All-Star


People simply forget that Jordan is the most organic winner of all-time - he started with absolutely nothing, while Curry enjoyed Klay as a starter in 2012 and multiple all-star teammates.

Meanwhile, Lebron entered the league with the East all-star center on his team and added a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran high seed.[/QUOTE]


no one8

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14666921]A post injury 15ppg in the playoffs defensive oriented David Robinson in 99 was easily the best teammate Duncan had till he was 3 rings in.

They won the title isolating him over and over while Elliot needing a kidney transplant had like 2 points and Drob might have had 12. Second ring he’s got young TP still so inconsistent Pop was pulling him for Speedy Claxton and Manu who I think did about 9ppg on 40% shooting and couldn’t go long without needing to be pulled. Tony obviously grew to be a very good player but the closest thing to a superstar he played with between 1998 and Leonard’s last couple seasons there was Manu when he’d fully adjusted to the nba and that was generally off the bench for like 28 minutes.

The spurs were rarely some super talented team.[/QUOTE]
A decisive end to the thread. And while Steph has proven without a shadow of a doubt he didn't need KD to win even multiple titles, the fact is half of his titles still came with KD outscoring him and winning FMVP, and the Warriors would never be considered dynasty status without 2017 & 2018.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14666980]A decisive end to the thread. And while Steph has proven without a shadow of a doubt he didn't need KD to win even multiple titles, the fact is half of his titles still came with KD outscoring him and winning FMVP, and the Warriors would never be considered dynasty status without 2017 & 2018.[/QUOTE]


Duncan landed alongside David Robinson and an all-time coach

It's laughable to think that he created a dynasty with little help

The historical record shows that no one started with a 7 ppg rookie sidekick and won with less all-star help than Jordan - no one is close to this level of organic development - everyone else had pieces in place or existing good players on the team when they started..

ONLY JORDAN started with literally nothing... a 7 ppg sidekick and no all-star teammates - no one has started with less

but keep ignoring the facts - they aren't going anywhere lol

Not sure if 2 championships separated by 7 seasons is considered a dynasty.

I consider the Warriors dynasty started when Durant joined and over when Durant left.

Less help? Bro, what?

Klay Thompson - 5x All Star (missed 2 years)
Draymond Green - 4x All Star, DPOY
Kevin Durant - 12x All Star, MVP, 2x Finals MVP

That’s not counting the let me another great role players that surrounded these guys. Better than normal role players as well, Andre Iguodala, Jordan Poole, etc.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666987]Duncan landed alongside David Robinson and an all-time coach

It's laughable to think that he created a dynasty with little help

The historical record shows that no one started with a 7 ppg rookie sidekick and won with less all-star help than Jordan - no one is close to this level of organic development - everyone else had pieces in place or existing good players on the team when they started..

ONLY JORDAN started with literally nothing... a 7 ppg sidekick and no all-star teammates - no one has started with less

but keep ignoring the facts - they aren't going anywhere lol[/QUOTE]
So the fakkit who drones on about ppg is now hyping up the Robinson who averaged less ppg in '99 than Pippen did for any title run? Ditto Parker in '03. And Pop's experience/credentials when Duncan arrived were no better than Phil's when he went to the Bulls.

Duncan won 4 superstar titles without another All-NBA player on the team, something Jordan only did once.

Duncan arguably wasn’t the best player on all four of his championships. Nobody counts the 1999 championship, worst NBA season in modern times by far. It was the first lockout, so many players came in to the season fat and out of shape. And they were lucky that the Bulls got dismantled a year early, otherwise they definitely would’ve won. When the eighth seed Ewing less Knicks got to the finals, that should tell you something. The culture change of the spurs, was equal parts Gregg Popovich and Tim Duncan, and Timmy played with a litany of great players. Tony Parker, Manu Ginóbili, Steven Jackson, Kawhi Leonard, even old David Robinson. More fallacy myth making for Tim Duncan.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14666967]rookie Klay > rookie Pippen


88' PIPPEN...................... 7.9 ppg... bench-warmer

12' KLAY......................... 12.5 ppg... starter
12' DAVID LEE................. All-NBA
12' MONTA ELLIS............. All-Star


People simply forget that Jordan is the most organic winner of all-time - he started with absolutely nothing, while Curry enjoyed Klay as a starter in 2012 and multiple all-star teammates.

Meanwhile, Lebron entered the league with the East all-star center on his team and added a 22/5/5 all-defender to make the 06' Playoffs as a veteran high seed.[/QUOTE]

???

Are you saying David Lee was All-NBA in the 2012 season where the Warriors were 23-43 that Curry mostly missed due to ankle injury?

Can you show me when Monta Ellis was ever an All-Star?

I might wanna throw in IT. Without Thomas they did not have a clear cut scorer down the stretch and floor general. Dumars is great 2 way player but probably the least offensively gifted as the others mentioned.
This is a good snapshot of just how good IT was at carrying this team.

[QUOTE=iamgine;14666995]Not sure if 2 championships separated by 7 seasons is considered a dynasty.

.[/QUOTE]

With no back-to-backs...not a dynasty.

[QUOTE]Nobody counts the 1999 championship[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it counts. You don't have to like it, but Duncan is factually a 5x champion. And we all know if Jordan had won that year you would never in a million years say that shit :lol

[QUOTE]And they were lucky that the Bulls got dismantled a year early, otherwise they definitely would’ve won[/QUOTE]
The Bulls nearly lost to the Pacers & Jazz the year before, they were clearly on their last legs during that '98 run. Could the Bulls have won in '99? Sure. Would they have "definitely" won? Absolutely not, and it's a ridiculous claim to make. Duncan & Robinson would've absolutely annihilated the Bulls frontcourt, that's a series the Spurs were very capable of winning.

[QUOTE]Timmy played with a litany of great players. Tony Parker, Manu Ginóbili, Steven Jackson, Kawhi Leonard, even old David Robinson.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, nobody said Duncan didn't have a great roster around him, you don't have the ridiculous amount of success that he did without one. But Blaze is right, those first 2 titles he had some of the weakest championship supporting casts ever, especially in '03.

[QUOTE]More fallacy myth making for Tim Duncan.[/QUOTE]
Let's see you keep that same energy the next time 3ball claims Pippen was Jeff Green caliber :lol

as if Curry could walk into the Warrior's owner's office and say "you've probably been the stingiest owner in the history of this sport."

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14667044]
Let's see you keep that same energy the [B]next time 3ball claims Pippen was Jeff Green caliber[/B] :lol[/QUOTE]


Outside the triangle and dynasty chemistry that he grew up in (system player), Pippen averaged 14 ppg in 1999 and was easily a worse scorer than Jeff Green

That's the historical record and you can't show me where Pippen was greater than Jeff Green outside the triangle because it doesn't exist.

Houston [URL=https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif]hated Pippen[/URL] and traded the 6-time champion for nothing

[QUOTE=3ba11;14667052]Outside the triangle and dynasty chemistry that he grew up in (system player), Pippen averaged 14 ppg in 1999 and was easily a worse scorer than Jeff Green

That's the historical record and you can't show me where Pippen was greater than Jeff Green outside the triangle because it doesn't exist.

Houston [URL=https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif]hated Pippen[/URL] and traded the 6-time champion for nothing[/QUOTE]

Did you take into account playing behind Barkley and Hakeem?
Or playing on a balanced scoring attack led by Rasheed Wallace and Stoudemire?
Or tell us when Barkley outscored Jordan by 4 points a game despite play 5 more minutes?

Again 3ball pulls stats with no context

[QUOTE=Stephonit;14667005]

Are you saying David Lee was All-NBA in the 2012 season


[/QUOTE]


David Lee was All-NBA in 2013 when Curry was healthy - Lee led the Warriors to 47 wins that year as the team's only All-NBA player, so this entire thread is moot based on that alone

And Steph joined a 25 ppg guy in Monta, while rookie Klay averaged 13 and started.

That doesn't compare to Jordan having no all-star or All-NBA teammates and rookie Pippen was an 8 ppg bench-warmer

[QUOTE=hateraid;14667053]

stats with no context


[/QUOTE]



Here's the context - Houston hated Pippen:



[Img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif[/img]




So they traded the 6-time champion for nothing asap

Pippen was the only 90's sidekick that wasn't a "1b" that could get elite stats and dominate.. Since he had the lowest peak capability (transition/hustle player), he wasn't on the scouting report and made MJ defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).

[QUOTE=3ba11;14667055]Here's the context - Houston hated Pippen:



[Img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif[/img]




So they traded the 6-time champion for nothing asap

Pippen was the only 90's sidekick that wasn't a "1b" that could get elite stats and dominate.. Since he had the lowest peak capability (transition/hustle player), he wasn't on the scouting report and made MJ defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).[/QUOTE]

That context only goes against your statement. Keep up here bud.

[QUOTE]. Yeah, it counts. You don't have to like it, but Duncan is factually a 5x champion. And we all know if Jordan had won that year you would never in a million years say that shit :lol[/QUOTE]


Its such a stupid claim. People thinking their opinion on what “counts” matters. Like anyone is checking for some internet trolls personal record book. Reality doesn’t care what anyone thinks and everything that ever happened counted regardless.

[QUOTE=hateraid;14667058]That context only goes against your statement. Keep up here bud.[/QUOTE]


It says that they tried to make the 33-year-old Pippen a higher option, but he simply wasn't anywhere near 36-year fossils Barkley and Hakeem, who were SEVERAL YEARS past their prime

Btw, that excerpt was part of an article describing how much Houston literally hated Pippen and traded him asap for nothing

This was a good topic really drove conversations from different stans. I do think it’s Duncan but tbf he also didn’t have high end competition from stacked teams most of the 00s besides 03. Lot of 2 star teams and the pistons. Klay and dray aren’t the biggest all time greats but it’s a fact they were very good in 2015 and all were all nba lvl in 16.

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;14667072]This was a good topic really drove conversations from different stans. I do think it’s Duncan but tbf he also didn’t have high end competition from stacked teams most of the 00s besides 03. Lot of 2 star teams and the pistons. Klay and dray aren’t the biggest all time greats but it’s a fact they were very good in 2015 and all were all nba lvl in 16.[/QUOTE]
They won like 5 playoff games without Curry in 2016, and not just won, they were legit blowing teams out :lol Klay & Dray were putting up elite production in those games, and went on to have all-time great performances against OKC in Game 6 and against Cleveland in Game 7.

The worst way people evaluate players is judging them solely on their all-time status. All that matters is how well they played at the time. So sure, Klay & Dray very likely won't even make the top 100 list when it gets released, but they were legit top 15-20 players at their peaks. Ditto Gasol, who was the best 2nd option in the league in '09 & '10 and a top 10-15 player.

[QUOTE=3ba11;14667055]Here's the context - Houston hated Pippen:



[Img]https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-15-2022/7D0vE4.gif[/img]




So they traded the 6-time champion for nothing asap

Pippen was the only 90's sidekick that wasn't a "1b" that could get elite stats and dominate.. Since he had the lowest peak capability (transition/hustle player), he wasn't on the scouting report and made MJ defeat maximum defensive attention (carry scoring load).[/QUOTE]
This explains exactly why he is possibly the greatest sidekick of all time, the greatest Robin to someone else as Batman.

But also just as much explains how he wasn’t an MVP, game changing, franchise corner stone superstar that could score and facilitate at the level of a number 1 option.

He was no Shaquille O’Neal, no Dwyane Wade, no Anthony Davis. And you could even make the argument, not a Kyrie Irving

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSFZnoZrrYJwMcqXr9cKDiHzVKiuSJ0WHthQ&usqp=CAU[/IMG]

[IMG]https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2021/12/20213804/35_MIKAN-1.jpg[/IMG]

Only one...the man they called Mr. Basketball or The Monster

[QUOTE=3ba11;14667063]It says that they tried to make the 33-year-old Pippen a higher option, but he simply wasn't anywhere near 36-year fossils Barkley and Hakeem, who were SEVERAL YEARS past their prime

Btw, that excerpt was part of an article describing how much Houston literally hated Pippen and traded him asap for nothing[/QUOTE]

Again, it doesn't fit your original statement comparing Pippen to Green. Keep up dude

I don't understand how someone could have watched Curry's whole career and yet have no idea who Kevin Durant is. Thompson Green and whoever that Durant guy is have all been Allstars and played with Curry in their prime. Warriors have annihilated the luxury tax to ensure they have a great team.

Yes, many people. Off the top of my head:

Michael Jordan
Dirk Nowitzki
Giannis Antetokumpo
Kobe Bryant