I still think Jokic is underrated

Dude is basically Dirk Nowitzki but with elite PG passing abilities added on. Even though he hasn't made a finals yet, he has always been a superstar in the playoffs.

Last three regular seasons averages (170 games).
Jokic: 26.4/12/8.2 with only 3.5 turnovers per game. [B]32.1 PER[/B], 66 TS%, [B]12.8 BPM[/B]

I understand the league is very offensive friendly now, but the Joker is annihilating everyone on offense. His advanced stats look like prime MJ/Lebron level. If he was a black American and athletic (more exciting playstyle), he'd be in GOAT talks. I still see many people act like Embiid is better than Jokic, which is very odd since Embiid has accomplished less than Joker and is definitely a worse playoff performer.

Hard to be underrated after winning back to back MVPs. I agree he is a beast though.

He's having another great season, but I think the fact that he has back to back MVPs, media/fans don't care to discuss him as much anymore.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14702261]Hard to be underrated after winning back to back MVPs. I agree he is a beast though.[/QUOTE]

Underrated among the NBA fan base...he's barely talked about relative to his dominance of the game, similar to how no one talks about Tim Duncan.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14702261]Hard to be underrated after winning back to back MVPs. I agree he is a beast though.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this makes the claim that he's underrated ridiculous :lol It's moreso fans and the media just don't care about him, and the sad reality is that until you win a title, you'll never be considered legitimate in the eyes of the dumbed down, casual NBA fanbase and media.

Jokic's terrible defense hurts the Nuggets in the playoffs. According to the some advanced stats he is one of the 3 best players ever but he has terrible on/off numbers in the playoffs. Guys like Curry and KD are better defenders. I really like Jokic actually he is incredibly entertaining but he isn't much better than Embiid. Maybe very slightly. He is much better offensively but also much worse defensively.

[QUOTE=Akeem34TheDream;14702272]Jokic's terrible defense hurts the Nuggets in the playoffs. According to the some advanced stats he is one of the 3 best players ever but he has terrible on/off numbers in the playoffs. Guys like Curry and KD are better defenders. I really like Jokic actually he is incredibly entertaining but he isn't much better than Embiid. Maybe very slightly. He is much better offensively but also much worse defensively.[/QUOTE]


Jokic has a BPM of 9.3 for his career in the playoffs which is elite. He has been dominant in the playoffs and a net positive on defense.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14702269]Yeah, this makes the claim that he's underrated ridiculous :lol It's moreso fans and the media just don't care about him, and the sad reality is that until you win a title, you'll never be considered legitimate in the eyes of the dumbed down, casual NBA fanbase and media.[/QUOTE]

He is underrated among the fan base though...which is my point. He is barely talked about just like Duncan was barely talked about compared to Shaq, Kobe, and even KG.

I'd be willing to bet that the average NBA fan holds someone like Carmelo Anthony in higher regards than Jokic.

I still don't understand why he can't get into elite shape. He seems to be gasping for air a lot.

If it legit is because he doesn't want to roid and most stars roid (Giannis, AD), then I understand that.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14702275]Jokic has a BPM of 9.3 for his career in the playoffs which is elite. [/QUOTE] It's not elite. It is the 3rd best all time after Michael Jordan and Lebron James. But even you know that is not an accurate ranking. You know that the guys that initiates offense and do everything on that side but hide/ conserve energy on the defensive side gets overrated by bpm. They average insane stats and they never have enough help. I wonder why?

[QUOTE=Akeem34TheDream;14702289]It's not elite. It is the 3rd best all time after Michael Jordan and Lebron James. But even you know that is not an accurate ranking. You know that the guys that initiates offense and do everything on that side but hide/ conserve energy on the defensive side gets overrated by bpm. They average insane stats and they never have enough help. I wonder why?[/QUOTE]


Maybe because their 2nd and 3rd options have been out hurt so often. MPJ has played only 25 games total the last two seasons. Murray hasn't played in the playoffs since the bubble.

Feel free to share the defensive metrics that have Jokic rated so poorly.

Jokic just had TWENTY rebounds in the first half tonight. Currently has 27/24/8...all this in only 32 minutes.

Seriously there has never been a player like Jokic. He is just as unique as a Lebron or Giannis. Really hope this dude gets a ring one day because he is easily one of the best offensive players ever. Basically a Dirk/Bird hybrid.

There's the triple double. 37/27/10. 30 seconds left.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14703581]Jokic just had TWENTY rebounds in the first half tonight. Currently has 27/24/8...all this in only 32 minutes.

Seriously there has never been a player like Jokic. He is just as unique as a Lebron or Giannis. Really hope this dude gets a ring one day because he is easily one of the best offensive players ever. [B]Basically a Dirk/Bird hybrid.[/B][/QUOTE]


While he has three point range, he’s statistically not a sniper out there.


Crazy as it sounds, he might actually be more of a Magic/Kareem hybrid :biggums:

Honestly it's a shame he'll spend his entire career with the Nuggets. We've dealt with injury issues and in a perfect world where MPJ/Murray get healthy than I think the Nuggets would have done a bang up job but as it stands now he'll never have the support to get a ring. Which means he'll never get the proper attention he deserves. If he was doing what he's doing now in a bigger market I think he'd be getting the LeBron/Kobe etc. push.

He's just an absurd player. You mention how friendly the league is offensively now .. but it's not that way for big men. He manages to be an average/above average defender despite all the switching he has to do. I legitimately don't think there's 15 players that are more talented than Jokic in the history of the game. He can do everything offensively at an elite level. He can bring the ball up the court, pass from the post, create off the bounce, shoot from anywhere, elite in the post, GOAT level touch around the rim. He's in the conversation for the most skilled player of all-time IMO. You give him elite athleticism and there's legitimate talk about him being the GOAT right now.

Connelly drafts really well but sucks at team building and it’ll cost jokic and looking like it’ll cost the wolves too. They did not need to give porter a max, small stuff like the beasley trade was bad too. Booth did a nice job this offseason with the brown and kcp pickups but Murray is really going have to get hot for the nuggets to match how they looked in 2021 post Gordon trade

[QUOTE=NBAGOAT;14703745]Connelly drafts really well but sucks at team building and it’ll cost jokic and looking like it’ll cost the wolves too. They did not need to give porter a max, small stuff like the beasley trade was bad too. Booth did a nice job this offseason with the brown and kcp pickups but Murray is really going have to get hot for the nuggets to match how they looked in 2021 post Gordon trade[/QUOTE]
They can win a ring if Murray can get back to his 2021 form (21+ on good efficiency) and MPJ stays healthy and develops a bit more. I really thought Murray would be a 25 PPG scorer by now. Maybe he would have been if he hadn't torn his ACL.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14703750]They can win a ring if Murray can get back to his 2021 form (21+ on good efficiency) and MPJ stays healthy and develops a bit more. I really thought Murray would be a 25 PPG scorer by now. Maybe he would have been if he hadn't torn his ACL.[/QUOTE]

Yea if that happens I agree though their bench does have issues too.

[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14703608]While he has three point range, he’s statistically not a sniper out there.


Crazy as it sounds, he might actually be more of a Magic/Kareem hybrid :biggums:[/QUOTE]

He's a damn monster however you want to slice it. He's absolutely a top three player in the NBA these last few years. I can't rank him any lower than 3.

Taking this from Reddit for Jokic.

25/11/9 on 62% — First seed in West — Leads NBA in +/- — Tied 1st in double doubles — Tied 1st in triple doubles — Most APG by a center ever — First ever 25/10/5 season on 60 FG% If you’re curious: yes, he leads the league in PER, WS, BPM and VORP.

We are potentially looking at a GOAT offensive stretch for a Center these last few years. Just a shame that we know the current NBA is easier to play in offensively compared to the last 30 years or so.

I didn't even realize he was shooting 62% from the FIELD, that is fcking insane :lol Not even Shaq or Kareem did that.

But as it stands now, in addition to being foreign, Jokic looks like he's going to be the biggest casualty of rangz culture the league has seen. As someone else said, you really can argue, just on peak play, Jokic is a top 15-20 player ever, but he will sadly never be remembered that way without any titles.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14705119]I didn't even realize he was shooting 62% from the FIELD, that is fcking insane :lol Not even Shaq or Kareem did that.

But as it stands now, in addition to being foreign, Jokic looks like he's going to be the biggest casualty of rangz culture the league has seen. As someone else said, you really can argue, just on peak play, Jokic is a top 15-20 player ever, but he will sadly never be remembered that way without any titles.[/QUOTE]

He will easily be remembered as top 20. Guys like Barkley and Malone routinely fall in that 15-20 range and Jokic has peaked higher than both.

3rd best player in the league. An absolute beast of a player and might be the best passing big in NBA history already at this point. :applause:

[QUOTE=hold this L;14705158]3rd best player in the league. An absolute beast of a player and might be the best passing big in NBA history already at this point. :applause:[/QUOTE]
3rd lol. Jokic would have the Warriors way above .500. Fuming.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14705161]3rd lol. Jokic would have the Warriors way above .500. [B]Fuming[/B].[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://i.gifer.com/origin/43/43c05dcd56610f2e5fdf3d79533ea2b7_w200.webp[/IMG]

[QUOTE=hold this L;14705163][IMG]https://i.gifer.com/origin/43/43c05dcd56610f2e5fdf3d79533ea2b7_w200.webp[/IMG][/QUOTE]
All the impact stats you jerk off to have him clearly over your hero. Accept that your boys been surpassed.

[QUOTE=StrongLurk;14705115]Taking this from Reddit for Jokic.

25/11/9 on 62% — First seed in West — Leads NBA in +/- — Tied 1st in double doubles — Tied 1st in triple doubles — Most APG by a center ever — First ever 25/10/5 season on 60 FG% If you’re curious: yes, he leads the league in PER, WS, BPM and VORP.

We are potentially looking at a GOAT offensive stretch for a Center these last few years. Just a shame that we know the current NBA is easier to play in offensively compared to the last 30 years or so.[/QUOTE]
Even more amazing is the fact that he was the 41st pick in the league almost a decade ago. His improvement over the years has been nothing short of outstanding.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14705165]All the impact stats you jerk off to have him clearly over your hero. Accept that your boys been surpassed.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://data.zouqicq.com/images/news/220617/u536hg4p4w.gif[/IMG]


Kiss the ring babyboi, still fresh.

[QUOTE=hold this L;14705205][IMG]https://data.zouqicq.com/images/news/220617/u536hg4p4w.gif[/IMG]


Kiss the ring babyboi, still fresh.[/QUOTE]
Kawhi was the best player in the league in 2015 by this logic. Jokic’s best teammate the last two years has been Aaron Gordon :oldlol:

[QUOTE=RRR3;14705207]Kawhi was the best player in the league in 2015 by this logic. Jokic’s best teammate the last two years has been Aaron Gordon :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

So a guy who averaged 16 ppg and got eliminated in the first round was the best player in the league in 2015?

:facepalm

[QUOTE=tontoz;14705214]So a guy who averaged 16 ppg and got eliminated in the first round was the best player in the league in 2015?

:facepalm[/QUOTE]
Can you read? I said by the logic he was using. All the data says Jokic is the best player right now he’s just furious it doesn’t say his crush is.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14705219]Can you read? I said by the logic he was using. All the data says Jokic is the best player right now he’s just furious it doesn’t say his crush is.[/QUOTE]


There is no logic comparing Kawhi in 2015 to Curry now. Curry was 5th on MVP ladder before he got hurt in spite of their bad record

[url]https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-nov-25-2022-edition[/url]



not to mention that that he averaged 31 ppg in the finals against an elite defense (Kawhi only averaged 17.8). Curry was also MVP finalist in 2021. Kawhi was just a role player.

As far a Jokic goes he has won two straight MVPs so there is no question he is elite. His advanced numbers have been sick basically ever since he lost weight.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14705233]There is no logic comparing Kawhi in 2015 to Curry now. Curry was 5th on MVP ladder before he got hurt in spite of their bad record

[url]https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-nov-25-2022-edition[/url]



not to mention that that he averaged 31 ppg in the finals against an elite defense (Kawhi only averaged 17.8). Curry was also MVP finalist in 2021. Kawhi was just a role player.[/QUOTE]
You’re apparently too dense to get that I meant the best player on the team that won the previous year isn’t automatically the best player. It’s simpleminded logic. Jokic is by all measures the best player right now.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14705234]You’re apparently too dense to get that I meant the best player on the team that won the previous year isn’t automatically the best player. It’s simpleminded logic. Jokic is by all measures the best player right now.[/QUOTE]


That isn't a valid comparison because Kawhi was just a role player at that time. He averaged only 12.8 ppg the year he won his first title. Not even remotely comparable to Curry who has 2 MVPs and was in the MVP race before he got hurt.

Do better

[QUOTE=tontoz;14705238]That isn't a valid comparison because Kawhi was just a role player at that time. He averaged only 12.8 ppg the year he won his first title. Not even remotely comparable to Curry who has 2 MVPs and was in the MVP race before he got hurt.

Do better[/QUOTE]
Make an argument for Curry being better than Jokic currently besides RANGZZZZZZZ DOEEEE and I will.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14705241]Make an argument for Curry being better than Jokic currently besides RANGZZZZZZZ DOEEEE and I will.[/QUOTE]

I never said Curry was better than Jokic. I just think your Kawhi comparison was dumb.

If you want to argue Jokic is better than Curry you should be able to do it without making a dumb comparison like that. You shouldn't need to bring up another player at all.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14705245]I never said Curry was better than Jokic. I just think your Kawhi comparison was dumb.

If you want to argue Jokic is better than Curry you should be able to do it without making a dumb comparison like that. You shouldn't need to bring up another player at all.[/QUOTE]
Except I already did I said he had better impact stats. HoldthisL responded with RANGZZZZ DOE but you of course took his side because Curry gives your private parts the shivers.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14705246]Except I already did I said he had better impact stats. HoldthisL responded with RANGZZZZ DOE but you of course took his side because Curry gives your private parts the shivers.[/QUOTE]

I think you misread his meaning. When you went into your typical "fuming" nonsense that is when he brought up the ring. I don't think he is too upset about anything after his team just won another title. He didn't even say who he feels the current top two players are.

Your lame fall back "fuming...seething...meltdown" nonsense is just lazy.

[QUOTE=tontoz;14705233]There is no logic comparing Kawhi in 2015 to Curry now. Curry was 5th on MVP ladder before he got hurt in spite of their bad record

[url]https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-nov-25-2022-edition[/url]



not to mention that that he averaged 31 ppg in the finals against an elite defense (Kawhi only averaged 17.8). Curry was also MVP finalist in 2021. Kawhi was just a role player.[/quote]
[Url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?379867-Finals-MVP-Alpha-Male-Curry-Appreciation-Thread]Not enough[/url] for him to win a finals mvp until last season tho. :ohwell:

[QUOTE=Axe;14705249][Url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?379867-Finals-MVP-Alpha-Male-Curry-Appreciation-Thread]Not enough[/url] for him to win a finals mvp until last season tho. :ohwell:[/QUOTE]


Shouldn't you be busy flirting with your boyfriends Full Court and Baller?