The Last of Us TV Show on HBO

Anyone else pumped for HBO's take on what I think is among the best post apocalyptic stories ever produced, regardless of medium.

I was a very tiny bit concerned about Pedro Pascal, who I love, just because the southern, private, hard nosed, bent that Joel has seems to define some of his characteristics as he ages, and Pascal seems to usually have a bit more flare, but The Mandalorian has a lot of character traits in common with Joel, so I've kind of set that aside.
I'm also a bit concerned about Bella Reese, just because there isn't a ton of experience, and Ellie is a complex character.

But whatever, I'm super pumped. HBO's track record and this content is more than enough for me.

i didn't buy into the hype leading up to the premiere of this show. gave it a watch today with low expectations, was pleasantly surprised. i have never played this game so idk how close it is to source material but i hear it's perfectly close. i think Pedro's character is played well too, not sure how accurate it is.

I found the first episode a little slow at an hour and a half, but I sort of expected that. Frankly the game is a bit slow right to the point where this episode ends. There is essentially a single action sequence in the game at this point that the shoe sort of skipped out on, a bigger shootout with Robert, the local smuggler guy.

The cold open ,with the 50's style talk show, I'm wondering if it will be expanded on every week, as it kind of serves as exposition for the virus with a quick straightforward approach, then they don't have to lose time explaining it in show. That varies from the game.

And what I believe they're calling tendrels that came from the mouth of the infected grandmother is just a different art design choice from the game that I'm ok with. But the more airborn spore style way on contagiousness that the game uses I'm hoping they don't do away with. I know there has to be some concern about it, because you will lose some of the facial acting elements with people wearing masks all the time, but I don't think it needs to be that invasive. I'm sure Pedro Pascal is tired of being masked up all the time for Mandolorian. But they didn't even cover their mouths when they ran into the fungus infected guy stuck to the wall on the way out of Boston.

I'm glad it was so well recieved by the general public. I've avoided reading any reviews, but know they've been generally very good. But those reviews have been based on the opening 4 episodes. If you had all 4 at once, maybe you'd forget any issues the first had by the time you were raving about it as a whole. That's why I'm glad the first one has been so well recieved by the general audience. I was afraid people would be a little bored by it and give up. I would argue we didn't see any of the monsters, but if you're unfamiliar with the games, then Nan and all the shit with the initial outbreak is probably plenty. The daughter dying is a gut punch in the game, and I'm guessing it was the same as a new viewer, so maybe some of the impact moments were a little lost on me.

But I was a little (and I mean very very little) disappointed by sets. I would've liked Boston to have felt more Bostony. Rebuild Quincy Market, show me the freedom trail, the Harbor where Robert works out of in the game, walk by a . None of that is in the game, but that's the sort of stuff I'm hoping the tv show expands on. And they obviously didn't go cheap. The effects were awesome. The plane crash in the opening sequence looked great. But I'm very hopeful for some serious world building set work. Something like what we got from Station 11, which if you haven't seen you should, it's on HBO Max and was awesome. And I think we will. Both Austin and Boston are the two shortest spans of time we play in the game, so hopefully there was a lets save some of the budget here, and get through this introduction to the story, and get going. That's my guess as to what's going to happen.

I appreciated the pace myself. If anything, it wouldn't have bothered me if we had an entire episode in line with the first half hour or so until shit hits the fan. Give us a full hour of Joel and his daughter, the day to day interactions with neighbours, Sarah going to school, give little glimpses into what's to come (like the male student and grandma twitching showing early infection). SHOW, not tell, the scene where Tommy ends up in the bar fight. That should have been the first hour, with the last 20 minutes being the outbreak and ending with Sarah dying. Roll credits just as Joel is cradling her lifeless body in his arms, onto Episode 2.

I played the PS4 remaster( my first time with the game) about 4 years ago, I don't recall too much of the moment to moment plot beats, just the overarching narrative. So I'm taking the show( including the casting) for what it is and not trying to parallel it 1:1 with the game. Your mileage may vary on how many changes you're prepared to accept, but it is definitely 'the Last of Us' in tone, style, visual, music, etc.

I really dug episode 2. I felt like I got a lot of the Boston-centric stuff I'd hoped to see. I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be Quincy Market where the horde was laying around when they first saw them. And the Museum looked very much like the State House where the Boston Massacre happened (although I read it was a real museum called the Bostonian that I'm not familiar with).

I'm also kind of digging some of the game changes. Shifting the Museum into Boston makes a lot more sense to me, and skipping out on a lot of the Fedra stuff in Boston, and shifting the Clicker introduction up in the time frame, made a lot of sense to me, knowing the time they have.

I've also thought both cold opens have been excellent, especially this last one. Fleshing out the outbreak part of this is all new ground to cover, and it's looked and felt like a great fit so far. I'm not 100% sold on the tendrils vs. the spores change so far. I can't see the periodic masks being that big of an issue. And the infected being "connected by miles long underground tendrils" so they wake up and charge after one is shot some distance away, is not something I'm not sure I like yet. It could, and already has, created some cool stuff. The horde charging the Capital Building I liked better than the game's Fedra shootout. But I'm fearful of it having some inconsistencies ... like why did the horde not care when they took out the Clickers? Either way, the whole contaminated flour, the entire background, I'm really liking the logic behind it. I hope they stick with a little cold open before every episode and keep working out the outbreak part of this. Even in the game world, I always thought a prequel that covered Joel and Tommy's survival up to the point they hook up with the Fireflys, and settle in Boston.

And I think most importantly, the performances have been excellent. Bella Ramsey has been better than I could've even hoped. Especially now in episode 2 where the critical relationship is already setting in. Pascal is excellent as usual. And the fact that a lot of these other roles are relatively short, means they can load them up with high end actors. Next weeks episode with Frank, has already been super well recieved by reviewers who've seen it. It's obviously going to feature some heavy flashback. And I can't wait to see the Winter season ... the David character is a juicy role.

With two of the nine episodes gone, and the third episode seemingly being a stand alone Frank episode, I'm starting to wonder how they'll break out the rest of the story. Two episodes in each of the remaining locations doesn't feel like it will get it done. And I haven't seen a hint at the iconic "Season" time cuts, which to me helped explain away some of the unshown advance in the Joel Ellie relationship, but I suspect we will see those time jumps. It makes me wonder if they will cut a section short. Pittsburgh has Sam. They can't cut David. And the last section is the end. Hopefully none of it gets rushed.

OP, just a suggestion you may want to edit your thread title to have 'SPOILERS WITHIN' or something like that. Just in case( though you'd think someone would come into this thread expecting some, but you never know nowadays).

Which brings me to the main gripe I had being Tess dying. Seems a bit too soon, like she should have had at least a couple more episodes, but I guess within the structure they wanted to get to the heart of the story ASAP, that being Joel and Ellie's relationship. If anything, they could have very easily gotten 10 episodes out of season 1 just to let certain things breath a bit more. Everything else about the episode was enjoyable for me.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14722271]OP, just a suggestion you may want to edit your thread title to have 'SPOILERS WITHIN' or something like that. Just in case( though you'd think someone would come into this thread expecting some, but you never know nowadays).

Which brings me to the main gripe I had being Tess dying. Seems a bit too soon, like she should have had at least a couple more episodes, but I guess within the structure they wanted to get to the heart of the story ASAP, that being Joel and Ellie's relationship. If anything, they could have very easily gotten 10 episodes out of season 1 just to let certain things breath a bit more. Everything else about the episode was enjoyable for me.[/QUOTE]

You are probably right ... But I'm not sure I can now (If you know how I'll gladly do it.). Part of the reason I put this in here was that I figured this would draw the game players, and there'd be more knowledge of the source material and sort of drive a different conversation. But you're right ... I probably should've pointed that out.

I'm a little surprised the OTCL doesn't have a larger thread on the show specifically.

wow ep3 was great. again, i've never played the game but this story is really good and i'm onboard for the ride.

So I usually write here when I'm at work, and I've been busy lately, so I feel like I missed some stuff, but I want to get my take on the last few episodes down.

Episode 3 was really awesome. I do have a couple of nit picks that probably aren't even fully warranted. I have no problem at all with the changes made from the game. In fact I feel like it's the best example of what can be done deviating from the source material to put it on screen. There simply isn't enough action for that story to be told in a game. I'll put in the game version if anyone cares to read it, but I guess it's technically a spoiler if you haven't played it yet (I guess you can't do white text anymore?):

In the game, the area has been overrun with monsters. It's an action heavy sequence in the game, with Bill playing out much more like you'd expect him to had Frank not existed in the show. He was a shotgun toting hoarder who was overly paranoid. It introduces you to the Bloater, who appears to show up in Episode 5, based on the preview. We only learn about Frank, and Bill being gay, through notes picked up along the way, particularly a final note where Bill hangs himself after becoming infected while trying to abandon Bill, that basically tells Bill he was a paranoid pain in the ass and that's why he had to get the hell out of there.

The changed plot was fantastic. My only couple of gripes is that it got away from the main story for a hair longer than I would've liked, and there just wasn't enough action. I could've stood for another Joel visit along the way. Some trading sequence. Maybe Joel and Tess helping them deal with the Raiders. Just something that would've built the level of trust Bill had for Joel. It also would've given us another chance to hang out with Ana Torv's Tess, which is a nice bonus in it's own right, but would've also given them one more shot to flesh out that relationship with Joel, which has already been expanded on from the game's version, and could help serve as a motive for Joel's taking on Ellie after she made him promise to do it.

I was also just a touch bothered by the production design. I found the neighborhood a little too bright. A little too clean. But again these are really minor gripes.

I do know there was a lot of blowback online about the overall "gayness" of the episode. And in a addition to that, I know there was a lot of blowback where if someone had even a tiny critique of the episode, they were pretty quickly deemed a homophobe ... ya know ... conversations taking place on the internet. I think you can make a real case that not only does the fact that this story is centered around a gay couple not matter, I'm not sure it works if they're heterosexual.
I feel like if that's a lone woman in that hole in Bill's yard, that his aggression reads more threatening. That his feeding her reads more as him leveraging her into sexual favors. That her approaching him at the piano reads more as manipulative use of her sexuality. That her sleeping with him reads as her selling herself for the security he provides. I just don't think it works as well.

So that's my episode 3 take.

So on to Episode 4. This is obviously a bridge episode. They had to get Joel and Ellie back moving, and they're re-establishing the pace. It was another one of my slight issues with episode 3, is that knowing how much ground there is to cover, I'm not sure the full hour and twenty minutes to this aside, albeit an incredibly well done aside. My memory is that there are only 9 episodes. I'm guessing two episodes in each region of the game, and the ninth was that Bill and Frank episode.

Anyway, the bad guys from Pittsburgh, which in the show has been changed to St. Louis, are among the weakest in the two games. So I'm actually super pumped that they're fleshing them out into this larger thing. Melanie Lynskey I kind of fell for watching Yellowjackets last year, so I think shes a cool fit here. This is a little harder to "review", just because it's clearly setting up the next episode in this region, and it's hard for me to say much without giving away what are some awesome story beats from this section of the game that are just being set up in this episode. However, I do feel like adding this depth to the enemies is going to really pay off, and I can't wait for Friday night to watch it early.

I would like to add a slightly spoilery theory about the change in location from Pittsburgh to St. Louis. In the game, during the game play, you're consistently seeing the three river bridge in the background, suspiciously well lit, as the beacon point to the end of the sequence. It was also done with the Boston Capitol Building in the first section of the game, and was given a little tip of the cap during the second episode as they moved out of Boston, as they showed it in the background, and Ellie has the same line she has in the game "you can't beat that view". I'm guessing some altered version of the ending of the Pittsburgh, now St. Louis, section will result in a heavy use of The Gateway Arch.

Another very minor gripe, I'm not sure the show is expressing the amount of time that's going by. To travel on foot to Bills, then drive to St. Louis, would be a lot of time. Over that time, there's sort of a presumed advancement in Joel and Ellie's relationship that I think is clearer in the game than it is in the show. I could simply be remembering this more fondly than it actually happened, but that's my gut instinct. In the game, some of these large swaths of time are denoted by a change in season. IIRC the first season is summer, and runs from Boston to the end of Pittsburgh. So it's probably unfair to complain it hasn't happened yet. But their relationship, and Ellie's general awareness, should grow at a rate the show hasn't indicated yet. I'm hopeful the show pushes that. And I'm hopeful Bella Ramsey can handle it, because while overall I think she's been great, there have been a couple moments that felt a little off to me.

It's not clear to me ( and maybe this becomes clear in future episodes) why Melanie Lynskey's character has emerged as the leader of this group.

[QUOTE=Phoenix;14728301]It's not clear to me ( and maybe this becomes clear in future episodes) why Melanie Lynskey's character has emerged as the leader of this group.[/QUOTE]

Her character is completely original to the show, so there isn't any way to add to this. But I'm sure they will flesh out whatever it is that happened to her brother, and it will explain it to some degree. I wonder too if they can explain it enough. But in the game, this group is completely nondescript, so I like that they've done something with it.

[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous;14728242]So on to Episode 4. This is obviously a bridge episode. They had to get Joel and Ellie back moving, and they're re-establishing the pace. It was another one of my slight issues with episode 3, is that knowing how much ground there is to cover, I'm not sure the full hour and twenty minutes to this aside, albeit an incredibly well done aside. My memory is that there are only 9 episodes. I'm guessing two episodes in each region of the game, and the ninth was that Bill and Frank episode.

Anyway, the bad guys from Pittsburgh, which in the show has been changed to St. Louis, are among the weakest in the two games. So I'm actually super pumped that they're fleshing them out into this larger thing. Melanie Lynskey I kind of fell for watching Yellowjackets last year, so I think shes a cool fit here. This is a little harder to "review", just because it's clearly setting up the next episode in this region, and it's hard for me to say much without giving away what are some awesome story beats from this section of the game that are just being set up in this episode. However, I do feel like adding this depth to the enemies is going to really pay off, and I can't wait for Friday night to watch it early.

I would like to add a slightly spoilery theory about the change in location from Pittsburgh to St. Louis. In the game, during the game play, you're consistently seeing the three river bridge in the background, suspiciously well lit, as the beacon point to the end of the sequence. It was also done with the Boston Capitol Building in the first section of the game, and was given a little tip of the cap during the second episode as they moved out of Boston, as they showed it in the background, and Ellie has the same line she has in the game "you can't beat that view". I'm guessing some altered version of the ending of the Pittsburgh, now St. Louis, section will result in a heavy use of The Gateway Arch.

Another very minor gripe, I'm not sure the show is expressing the amount of time that's going by. To travel on foot to Bills, then drive to St. Louis, would be a lot of time. Over that time, there's sort of a presumed advancement in Joel and Ellie's relationship that I think is clearer in the game than it is in the show. I could simply be remembering this more fondly than it actually happened, but that's my gut instinct. In the game, some of these large swaths of time are denoted by a change in season. IIRC the first season is summer, and runs from Boston to the end of Pittsburgh. So it's probably unfair to complain it hasn't happened yet. But their relationship, and Ellie's general awareness, should grow at a rate the show hasn't indicated yet. I'm hopeful the show pushes that. And I'm hopeful Bella Ramsey can handle it, because while overall I think she's been great, there have been a couple moments that felt a little off to me.[/QUOTE]
you called it...in this latest episoe they imply their chemistry has grown. during the horde scene specifically

Loved episode 5. With both the human enemies, and the infected enemies, and using the infected against the humans, it felt the most like an adaptation of the game yet. And while doing that, they really blow out the story in a huge way. The 2+ hour story arc for Melanie Lynskie is all totally fresh material from the game, and while it has some questions, I thought it worked incredibly well. And the extra story we got backgrounding Sam and Henry I thought was a great addition, and the differences with them, like Sam being deaf, I felt like helped the story too.

I've played through this game probably a half dozen times, and frankly I'm blown away with how well this is being received so far, mostly because the areas we've covered so far, are the weakest in the game IMO. Boston's Fedra section is really sluggishly paced in the game. And game Pittsburg / show Kansas City, is extremely non-descript as far as the enemies go. I expect the last few chapters to be some of the best stuff we see on tv just based on how good the source material is, and how exceptionally they've handled what in my opinion is the lesser of the source material, up to this point. And while I was a little concerned about the remaining time, four episodes, especially if they have a little extra runtime, as some of them have so far, I can at least now envision the blueprint to finishing this as it should be finished.

I was really enjoying the cold opens, but it seems they've run their course. I probably liked them because they gave me new content, and added to the existing world and story, but I understand that they've pretty much run their course. There's much more to say about the original outbreak unless you're going to really show cities being bombed, which at this point I'd rather that budget be put into the main plot. I'm hoping was see some more Flashback of that time frame between Texas and Boston with Joel and his brother Tommy. It's a period that is hinted at in the game, and further in the show, but it's never been seen. I think we might get some in this coming episode six when Joel and Tommy reunite.

[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous;14732904]Loved episode 5. With both the human enemies, and the infected enemies, and using the infected against the humans, it felt the most like an adaptation of the game yet. And while doing that, they really blow out the story in a huge way. The 2+ hour story arc for Melanie Lynskie is all totally fresh material from the game, and while it has some questions, I thought it worked incredibly well. And the extra story we got backgrounding Sam and Henry I thought was a great addition, and the differences with them, like Sam being deaf, I felt like helped the story too.

I've played through this game probably a half dozen times, and frankly I'm blown away with how well this is being received so far, mostly because the areas we've covered so far, are the weakest in the game IMO. Boston's Fedra section is really sluggishly paced in the game. And game Pittsburg / show Kansas City, is extremely non-descript as far as the enemies go. I expect the last few chapters to be some of the best stuff we see on tv just based on how good the source material is, and how exceptionally they've handled what in my opinion is the lesser of the source material, up to this point. And while I was a little concerned about the remaining time, four episodes, especially if they have a little extra runtime, as some of them have so far, I can at least now envision the blueprint to finishing this as it should be finished.

I was really enjoying the cold opens, but it seems they've run their course. I probably liked them because they gave me new content, and added to the existing world and story, but I understand that they've pretty much run their course. There's much more to say about the original outbreak unless you're going to really show cities being bombed, which at this point I'd rather that budget be put into the main plot. I'm hoping was see some more Flashback of that time frame between Texas and Boston with Joel and his brother Tommy. It's a period that is hinted at in the game, and further in the show, but it's never been seen. I think we might get some in this coming episode six when Joel and Tommy reunite.[/QUOTE]

wth is up with that abomination of a monster? are they also in the game? how do you stop them? a bazooka? and what makes them grow so big and strong?

i agree with you btw, i think this is the best episode yet.

[QUOTE=highwhey;14732940]wth is up with that abomination of a monster? are they also in the game? how do you stop them? a bazooka? and what makes them grow so big and strong?

i agree with you btw, i think this is the best episode yet.[/QUOTE]

So the "Bloater", is in the game. He's a huge pain in the ass. He is a guy who's been floating around infected for the longest amount of time, about 20 years. The fungus grows out of his body making like a crusty armor. In the game they pull of wads of spores from their body and throw them at you, making a toxic dust cloud that can kill you. Ellie actually references it in episode two, when she asks Tess if there are giant infected that throw spores at you, and Tess replies "God I hope not". I'm not sure if this was intended as misdirection, or a nod to the fact that they're pretty rare, and it's unlikely a lot of people have ever seen them, and if they have they may not have survived to talk about it.
In the game the first run in is in Bill's town. You break into an old High School, and one busts out of the locker room into the basketball gym. I think it's just prior to that that you begin crafting, so you've started making pipe bombs, and molotovs. Also Bill was pretty well armed, so you're fairly well equipped at that point. He's a pain in the ass, but you take him down eventually. They appear a few more times in the game. One sequence in particular in a highway tunnel there's a few of them along with a bunch of other bad guys, is a spot I remember as among the hardest in the game. Requires a lot of sneaking, because the noise from shooting them will alarm everything else. I'm guessing we'll see more, but probably not as many as in the game, as they're usually reserved for scenes that are really best described as action set pieces. The type of spots you die at a bunch of times, and are really there as gameplay moments. There's not much in the way of plot being moved forward in those sequences.
That said, I do think they did a great job with the museum set piece in episode two, introducing the clickers, and hopefully they find a few more moments to work the infected into the show. This past week was a great moment in showing how tough they are, but it feels like a few more moments like that are in order, less the show start to feel more like Cormac McCarthy's The Road, rather than something heavily influenced by that. That museum set piece was slid from one section of the game to another, so I'm sure some other action heavy sequences can be moved around.

[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous;14733172]So the "Bloater", is in the game. He's a huge pain in the ass. He is a guy who's been floating around infected for the longest amount of time, about 20 years. The fungus grows out of his body making like a crusty armor. In the game they pull of wads of spores from their body and throw them at you, making a toxic dust cloud that can kill you. Ellie actually references it in episode two, when she asks Tess if there are giant infected that throw spores at you, and Tess replies "God I hope not". I'm not sure if this was intended as misdirection, or a nod to the fact that they're pretty rare, and it's unlikely a lot of people have ever seen them, and if they have they may not have survived to talk about it.
In the game the first run in is in Bill's town. You break into an old High School, and one busts out of the locker room into the basketball gym. I think it's just prior to that that you begin crafting, so you've started making pipe bombs, and molotovs. Also Bill was pretty well armed, so you're fairly well equipped at that point. He's a pain in the ass, but you take him down eventually. They appear a few more times in the game. One sequence in particular in a highway tunnel there's a few of them along with a bunch of other bad guys, is a spot I remember as among the hardest in the game. Requires a lot of sneaking, because the noise from shooting them will alarm everything else. I'm guessing we'll see more, but probably not as many as in the game, as they're usually reserved for scenes that are really best described as action set pieces. The type of spots you die at a bunch of times, and are really there as gameplay moments. There's not much in the way of plot being moved forward in those sequences.
That said, I do think they did a great job with the museum set piece in episode two, introducing the clickers, and hopefully they find a few more moments to work the infected into the show. This past week was a great moment in showing how tough they are, but it feels like a few more moments like that are in order, less the show start to feel more like Cormac McCarthy's The Road, rather than something heavily influenced by that. That museum set piece was slid from one section of the game to another, so I'm sure some other action heavy sequences can be moved around.[/QUOTE]

appreciate the explanation. i plan on playing the game soon but probably not til season 1 is over.

damn this was joel's best episode thus far. you could feel his emotions through the screen with his initial hesitation of telling his brother the truth and the tension between him and elly. then ofc the end of the episode. i think this is my favorite episode. i think best episode FOR SURE in regards to cinematography. the scenery was amazing. almost thought it was red dead redemption.

I completely agree. Pedro Pascal was unreal in this episode, and this performance has added a layer to Joel that goes beyond what the game shows, and frankly I find it an improvement at a level I didn't think was even possible. The addition of Maria being pregnant was also a great touch, not only in that it gave Tommy true motive to stay, but the extra twist it put to Joel was just another layer. The panic attacks, or whatever his health issues are, are also original to the show, and again something I feel is an improvement, especially because all those factors lead to Joel's eventual breakdown to Tommy gave him a vulnerability I never recall from the game. And even with all those, albeit minor, changes, the eventual conversation with Ellie in the room telling her he's handing her off to Tommy, plays out word for word as it does in the game (at least to the best of my memory).

The Jackson set was awesome, and that too was a change from the game, at least this one. Jackson doesn't get that well developed until the sequel. In the game it's just the dam that is in place. A much smaller community, and no where near as organized.

I also agree that this whole episode just LOOKED incredible. I'm always a sucker for long shots with massive natural backgrounds, real or CG'd. This episode was loaded with those at both the beginning and the end. I'm also a sucker for a good winter look, and that was also done perfectly in this. Along with some creative shots, like the overhead work on the bridge. This really did have the feel of a good western, but less like Red Dead the game, and more like some of the great western films, including relative modern stuff, like The Murder of Jesse James.

I do like that they expressed the passage of time at the beginning. I do think that helps explain the expanded relationship between Joel and Ellie. I like the scene with the old couple, which is completely original to the show.

I do have to say that I've repeatedly had a similar gripe, and it's beginning to become a problem for me, and that is that the infected feel like they've been too removed from the series. The opening sequence, I'm fine with not seeing any. Being out in the wilderness makes a lot of sense they'd be fewer and further between, and once they hit the dam/Jackson, the game doesn't have any either. However, the scene at the college, has some of the better infected action sequences in the game. You're set up in these dorm hallways, so you've got rooms on each side of you, possible infected on either side, a tight space between the hallway, and the ability to duck into rooms for cover, and then some of the rooms are have connecting doors, so there's an opportunity to sneak around, or at least flank an enemy. The area has your regular infected, but also some clickers, and iirc, a bloater sequence after dropping into a basement. You get to the medical building only after clearing out that sequence, and from there it plays out pretty true to the show. The attack from the raiders leads to the next phase (I do really enjoy that these episodes are all kind of two part segments). I fully understand that being away from game means we don't need all these action set pieces. Addressing the story, particularly the relationship between Joel and Ellie, from multiple perspectives, has been great. But the reason for her importance, as a potential cure, or vaccine, or whatever you want to call it, feels a little lost because we're not seeing enough of what the cure is for. It's particularly frustrating I think, because what they have given us has been truly awesome. The Clicker Museum sequence was handled perfectly. The swarm with Sam and Henry was really cool, even if it didn't feel quite as true to the game as maybe I'd like (it was too overwhelming, and lacked that tension of the clicker sequence). It feels like everything we've lost has been moments that would have been like that. The building escape from Boston. The tunnels in Kansas City. The school in Colorado. These were all spots where tense, stealthy, action sequences happened. We've probably gotten more than I'm giving credit for. The capitol building in Boston for example had that horde in the show that is Fedra in the game. But that sequence, like the Kansas City horde, lacked that tension that the clicker sequence had, that is sort of defining of the game. With three episodes left, I hope we get another moment or two like that.

[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous;14735270]I completely agree. Pedro Pascal was unreal in this episode, and this performance has added a layer to Joel that goes beyond what the game shows, and frankly I find it an improvement at a level I didn't think was even possible. The addition of Maria being pregnant was also a great touch, not only in that it gave Tommy true motive to stay, but the extra twist it put to Joel was just another layer. The panic attacks, or whatever his health issues are, are also original to the show, and again something I feel is an improvement, especially because all those factors lead to Joel's eventual breakdown to Tommy gave him a vulnerability I never recall from the game. And even with all those, albeit minor, changes, the eventual conversation with Ellie in the room telling her he's handing her off to Tommy, plays out word for word as it does in the game (at least to the best of my memory).

The Jackson set was awesome, and that too was a change from the game, at least this one. Jackson doesn't get that well developed until the sequel. In the game it's just the dam that is in place. A much smaller community, and no where near as organized.

I also agree that this whole episode just LOOKED incredible. I'm always a sucker for long shots with massive natural backgrounds, real or CG'd. This episode was loaded with those at both the beginning and the end. I'm also a sucker for a good winter look, and that was also done perfectly in this. Along with some creative shots, like the overhead work on the bridge. This really did have the feel of a good western, but less like Red Dead the game, and more like some of the great western films, including relative modern stuff, like The Murder of Jesse James.

I do like that they expressed the passage of time at the beginning. I do think that helps explain the expanded relationship between Joel and Ellie. I like the scene with the old couple, which is completely original to the show.

I do have to say that I've repeatedly had a similar gripe, and it's beginning to become a problem for me, and that is that the infected feel like they've been too removed from the series. The opening sequence, I'm fine with not seeing any. Being out in the wilderness makes a lot of sense they'd be fewer and further between, and once they hit the dam/Jackson, the game doesn't have any either. However, the scene at the college, has some of the better infected action sequences in the game. You're set up in these dorm hallways, so you've got rooms on each side of you, possible infected on either side, a tight space between the hallway, and the ability to duck into rooms for cover, and then some of the rooms are have connecting doors, so there's an opportunity to sneak around, or at least flank an enemy. The area has your regular infected, but also some clickers, and iirc, a bloater sequence after dropping into a basement. You get to the medical building only after clearing out that sequence, and from there it plays out pretty true to the show. The attack from the raiders leads to the next phase (I do really enjoy that these episodes are all kind of two part segments). I fully understand that being away from game means we don't need all these action set pieces. Addressing the story, particularly the relationship between Joel and Ellie, from multiple perspectives, has been great. But the reason for her importance, as a potential cure, or vaccine, or whatever you want to call it, feels a little lost because we're not seeing enough of what the cure is for. It's particularly frustrating I think, because what they have given us has been truly awesome. The Clicker Museum sequence was handled perfectly. The swarm with Sam and Henry was really cool, even if it didn't feel quite as true to the game as maybe I'd like (it was too overwhelming, and lacked that tension of the clicker sequence). It feels like everything we've lost has been moments that would have been like that. The building escape from Boston. The tunnels in Kansas City. The school in Colorado. These were all spots where tense, stealthy, action sequences happened. We've probably gotten more than I'm giving credit for. The capitol building in Boston for example had that horde in the show that is Fedra in the game. But that sequence, like the Kansas City horde, lacked that tension that the clicker sequence had, that is sort of defining of the game. With three episodes left, I hope we get another moment or two like that.[/QUOTE]

interesting point about there not being enough infected on screen. there wasn't even one infected in this last episode.

but yeah, they nailed this episode with good cinematography and shot locations. was a big fan of the overhead of the bridge too...

felt like a filler episode. thought ellie was just a tomboy, didn't know she was lesbo. cool i guess. episode felt like watching a bucks game with khris middleton being the leader and giannis sitting out.

[QUOTE=highwhey;14738687]felt like a filler episode. thought ellie was just a tomboy, didn't know she was lesbo. cool i guess. episode felt like watching a bucks game with khris middleton being the leader and giannis sitting out.[/QUOTE]

I think there's a reason for that very appropriately described feeling you're having. That story is lifted mainly from the Left Behind Downloadable Content add on that was released after the game. There are a few other bits of it that came from a comic called American Dreams. So if it feels a bit disjointed from the rest of the story, is probably directly tied to the fact that it's moving to other source materials for the story.

I'd agree it's probably my least favorite episode so far. It was a little on the nose with the politics for my taste, something I don't remember from the game play. That being said, I still felt like it was a pretty killer episode of TV. I thought the art design in the mall was fantastic. It had a neon kind of glow about it that made me feel like it was a relative of Stranger Things, which was an interesting touch considering they're both leveraging a similar nostalgic angle. ST leans heavily on 80s mall culture, particularly in season two. But the revamped timeline in TLoU is only reaching back to 2003 in the show, and this feels longer ago than that. Early 90s, which may as well be the 80s, is what this feels more like. And frankly by 2003, you'd be hard pressed to find a lot of those arcade games.

Either way, the lighting and feel of the mall is great. The soundtrack was absolutely killer, and worked perfectly for the story. The miserable Pearl Jam, which is among my favorite bands ever, so I'm a little biased, to open, the A-Ha, and Etta James, and the Cure's Merry Go Round version of Just Like Heaven is awesome. This story does fill in a ton of background on Ellie. A lot of her stories and comments along the way are sort of validated by this background. Tess asks her early if they have to worry about a boyfriend coming after her and she says a pretty defiant no, sort of alluding to her sexuality, the video game interest earlier with Joel, the pun book ... a lot of it is sort of breadcrumbed up to this episode. I just feel like because I already knew the story, a lot of this I was already expecting. Also, so much of this is lifted directly from the DLC game that there wasn't a ton of extra to take from it. I don't remember the political bent, where Ellie was so defensive of the Fedra concept, being a thing. And her general revolutionary vibe doesn't really work with it to me, but adding the scene with the Fedra commander helped.
I also know that Ellie referenced "it not being her first time" to Joel in reference to shooting the kid in Kansas City. The implication being she had to shoot Riley. I do feel like they sort of chinced out by not showing something there at the end, even just an emotional meltdown if they didn't want to show the actual killing. And presumably Marlene picks her up shortly after this, so shouldn't she be more irate, and less defensively agitated by the Fireflies if she blames them for getting her friend killed, or at least be inconsolably shook still? And while I'm glad we got an infected moment, I'm still missing the more tense tone the game brings to them. This probably isn't the spot, but they haven't really gotten the infected right to me since the absolutely perfect clicker sequence.

So there were a lot of things to like for me. I have my issues ... but I already knew this episode was coming. My biggest issue is that with two episodes left, I'm not sure this hour couldn't have been used differently. The next episode with David is probably my favorite part of the game, and I'm not sure how it can properly be jammed into a single hour. And the finale episode feels like it almost has to be a longer episode to properly finish the story. IIRC this is exactly the spot where the DLC picks up in the game. My memory is that she's searching for supplies to help an injured Joel, and she's scavenging a mall to find stuff, and it's the mall that kicks off her memory of the night with Riley. But as she ages up in season two, there's a couple moments, and several different people, with whom she could've had a conversation about her sexuality with, where they could have played directly into this story. Hell ... this could've made sense as a conversation with Joel as they took cover for the night in KC after she shot the kid. It might have helped push the idea that their relationship was pushing forward faster.

Overall it's been so good I still have complete faith in these last two episodes.

that guy was so creepy it made me forget there's zombies. between the cannibalism and pedo/rape thing, i think david was a bigger monster than any of the infected.

So this is my favorite section of really either of the two games. David is a true arch villain, who kinda gives you a sense of why it's so dangerous out there. I had been looking forward to this part of the show since it was announced, was a little annoyed it wasn't given a true two part arc, but it still played out maybe even better than I could have hoped. In a way the Riley episode really is a piece of this in the game. Ellie flashes back to Riley because she is scavenging a mall to get supplies to help treat Joel. I think her bouncing in and out of both timelines last episode would have helped. And it could've given us some much needed infected moments, and probably would've made Joel's recovery feel more genuine, as it would've shown a greater passage of time.

A lot of this episode plays out almost shot for shot as it does in the game. But a few of the changes they make, particularly to the David character, I thought were great improvements. Adding the religious angle really fleshed out the group. And the fact he was a teacher, and then a preacher, added a really disturbing sub-text to his obvious, if not explicitly stated, pedophile proclivities which do exist in the game.

Couple nice easter eggs for game guys. Felt like a tip of the cap when David says his group had travelled from the Pittsburgh QZ after it had fallen into war between the Fireflies and FEDRA. That's pretty much how it plays out in the game, in lieu of what we get in Kansas City in the show. It's not a very well fleshed out section in the game. You mostly have to figure out the battle based on set dressing, and finding notes. But it felt like a nice nod. And the big one is in James, David's lead disciple I guess you'd call him, being played by played by Troy Baker, who is the voice and MoCap actor who plays Joel in the game. He's one of the most prolific game actors of all time, and watching this, there doesn't seem to be any reason to think he couldn't have had a live action career. That's a character that is really fleshed out from the game, where he's mostly just an extra set of hands for David. David's turn in the game feels a little more stunning to me. Part of that is because they give us perspective to him outside of Joel and Ellie, so we probably already know he's not such a great guy. But also because in the game, we're given an intense infected sequence where we're forced to defend the shed where they set up the small fire while James goes to get the medicine. Fighting along side him creates a sense of trust, and up to this point, the characters we've had cut scene encounters with have all turned out to be good, or at least ok (Marlene, Tess, Bill, Henry and Sam, Tommy and Maria ... the game doesn't have a fleshed out version of the Pittsburgh/KC character like Melanie Lynsky ... and I do wonder if her existence took a little of the edge off David's turn in the show). So I feel like fighting along side him added a layer of trust to that relationship, just before they use the same reveal as they do in the show ... when he tells her about the crazy man travelling with the little girl who killed some of his men, and gives her that eerie look.

I thought it was important to get the torcher scene with Joel the way we do. I felt like the show had kinda pulled some punches in terms of the violence up to this point, which I totally understand. You can't match video game violence and still have these characters create any real human emotional connection. But this particular scene, both in the game and here, really shows the level to which Joel has bonded with Ellie, and the degrees to which he will go to protect her. It also I always felt somehow displayed how much more advanced he was than the average hunter with a rifle out in the woods, in terms of willingness, ability, and techniques for violence. I really did not expect them to play it out as accurately as they did, but I'm really glad they did.

Still doesn't feel like they've left themselves enough time to properly finish this. But I must admit that every time I've thought that, the episode seems to cover the necessary amount of story to do it justice, so I have faith. That said ... we're at a point now where no matter what happens, the season definitely shorted on the infected. I wonder how much of it was story choice driven, the choice to focus on the humanity of the story, which is kinda what made the story so iconic in the video game medium ... or if some of it was done out of necessity, like budgetary issues, which would be unfortunate, but would give me some hope that season two would have more just because the show being hit will ramp up the budget. Rumor has it a third game has been sort of unofficially but officially announced ... which is interesting because it may line up with the idea of a third season of the show. By all accounts there wasn't going to be a third game, but I'd take it. That kind of drive really would speak to the success of the show. It's also a little worrisome just because of how Thrones wound up after outpacing it's source material. Second game will be a more difficult adaptation. For one it's just not as good a story. But for two, much of it takes place over a shorter time span, something I thought hurt the game. I just really wish we had two or three more infected sequences (I don't really mind not having one in this episode). I still feel like you almost have to wonder why a cure is so important at this point. We've seen whole areas with power, people armed to the teeth. With as few infected as we've seen, it almost feels like why can't we just go out and clear them out and get started again. And it still bothers me because the couple infected scenes we did get were so good. Most of the non-game critics I've read seem to disagree with me. And most of the game playing critics I've seen do agree with me. I feel like that's telling.

So one more to go. This game's ending is one of the reasons it's so highly regarded, and I think the emotion has been more than well enough laid out to land it.

[QUOTE=Thorpesaurous;14741598]So this is my favorite section of really either of the two games. David is a true arch villain, who kinda gives you a sense of why it's so dangerous out there. I had been looking forward to this part of the show since it was announced, was a little annoyed it wasn't given a true two part arc, but it still played out maybe even better than I could have hoped. In a way the Riley episode really is a piece of this in the game. Ellie flashes back to Riley because she is scavenging a mall to get supplies to help treat Joel. I think her bouncing in and out of both timelines last episode would have helped. And it could've given us some much needed infected moments, and probably would've made Joel's recovery feel more genuine, as it would've shown a greater passage of time.

A lot of this episode plays out almost shot for shot as it does in the game. But a few of the changes they make, particularly to the David character, I thought were great improvements. Adding the religious angle really fleshed out the group. And the fact he was a teacher, and then a preacher, added a really disturbing sub-text to his obvious, if not explicitly stated, pedophile proclivities which do exist in the game.

Couple nice easter eggs for game guys. Felt like a tip of the cap when David says his group had travelled from the Pittsburgh QZ after it had fallen into war between the Fireflies and FEDRA. That's pretty much how it plays out in the game, in lieu of what we get in Kansas City in the show. It's not a very well fleshed out section in the game. You mostly have to figure out the battle based on set dressing, and finding notes. But it felt like a nice nod. And the big one is in James, David's lead disciple I guess you'd call him, being played by played by Troy Baker, who is the voice and MoCap actor who plays Joel in the game. He's one of the most prolific game actors of all time, and watching this, there doesn't seem to be any reason to think he couldn't have had a live action career. That's a character that is really fleshed out from the game, where he's mostly just an extra set of hands for David. David's turn in the game feels a little more stunning to me. Part of that is because they give us perspective to him outside of Joel and Ellie, so we probably already know he's not such a great guy. But also because in the game, we're given an intense infected sequence where we're forced to defend the shed where they set up the small fire while James goes to get the medicine. Fighting along side him creates a sense of trust, and up to this point, the characters we've had cut scene encounters with have all turned out to be good, or at least ok (Marlene, Tess, Bill, Henry and Sam, Tommy and Maria ... the game doesn't have a fleshed out version of the Pittsburgh/KC character like Melanie Lynsky ... and I do wonder if her existence took a little of the edge off David's turn in the show). So I feel like fighting along side him added a layer of trust to that relationship, just before they use the same reveal as they do in the show ... when he tells her about the crazy man travelling with the little girl who killed some of his men, and gives her that eerie look.

I thought it was important to get the torcher scene with Joel the way we do. I felt like the show had kinda pulled some punches in terms of the violence up to this point, which I totally understand. You can't match video game violence and still have these characters create any real human emotional connection. But this particular scene, both in the game and here, really shows the level to which Joel has bonded with Ellie, and the degrees to which he will go to protect her. It also I always felt somehow displayed how much more advanced he was than the average hunter with a rifle out in the woods, in terms of willingness, ability, and techniques for violence. I really did not expect them to play it out as accurately as they did, but I'm really glad they did.

Still doesn't feel like they've left themselves enough time to properly finish this. But I must admit that every time I've thought that, the episode seems to cover the necessary amount of story to do it justice, so I have faith. That said ... we're at a point now where no matter what happens, the season definitely shorted on the infected. I wonder how much of it was story choice driven, the choice to focus on the humanity of the story, which is kinda what made the story so iconic in the video game medium ... or if some of it was done out of necessity, like budgetary issues, which would be unfortunate, but would give me some hope that season two would have more just because the show being hit will ramp up the budget. Rumor has it a third game has been sort of unofficially but officially announced ... which is interesting because it may line up with the idea of a third season of the show. By all accounts there wasn't going to be a third game, but I'd take it. That kind of drive really would speak to the success of the show. It's also a little worrisome just because of how Thrones wound up after outpacing it's source material. Second game will be a more difficult adaptation. For one it's just not as good a story. But for two, much of it takes place over a shorter time span, something I thought hurt the game. I just really wish we had two or three more infected sequences (I don't really mind not having one in this episode). I still feel like you almost have to wonder why a cure is so important at this point. We've seen whole areas with power, people armed to the teeth. With as few infected as we've seen, it almost feels like why can't we just go out and clear them out and get started again. And it still bothers me because the couple infected scenes we did get were so good. Most of the non-game critics I've read seem to disagree with me. And most of the game playing critics I've seen do agree with me. I feel like that's telling.

So one more to go. This game's ending is one of the reasons it's so highly regarded, and I think the emotion has been more than well enough laid out to land it.[/QUOTE]

at this point i just hope Joel doesn't die.

the ending felt weird.

great episode and can't say i saw that coming from Joel. ether way, ellie didn't believe him, partly bc Joel is a terrible liar. so i can guess that's going to cause a division between them. i don't blame Joel, the world as it is has lost its civility until further notice, the micropockets of civilization like the one where his brother lives in are the exception but i can only imagine they are few and far in between. he did what he had to do to protect ellie, even if it was from herself. zero guarantee it would even workout and it would come at the cost of her life. then you factor in that a cure would be difficult to make available to everyone even with an underground network/organization like the fireflys. the logistics is a nightmare, there would probably be a war for control of the cure if they managed to make it. not to mention the lady leader said herself it was hell for her to travel cross country lol...and she thought she could effectively make and distribute a cure.

i vote for pedro.

i hope ellie gets over it or i'm over the show, it's a first world civilization problem to be pissed about a decision being taken away from you. as long as your fed and have a good roof over your head, the rest is arbitrary. i came from a poverty background though, so i imagine not too many americans will agree w me.

That episode felt like it was rushed, especially the hospital scene could have been longer and not have Joel mow down the Fireflies in a few minutes like he was literally in a video game( yes, I get the irony).

The series overall was enjoyable but I think all the various flashbacks, while expanding the narrative, also took away valuable time going towards what was happening in the moment. This should have been like a 12 episode season considering two of them were 100% flashback side stories. I can't wait for the meltdowns when they adapt Part II's story from people who haven't played the game.

In a lot of ways, I felt like the whole season was rushed. With that said ... they did manage to maintain all the important plot points from the game, and managed to add to the overall narrative in a really good way. I really loved the cold open with Ellie's mom, played by Ellie Game Voice Actor Ashley Johnson, giving birth to Ellie under attack. IIRC it's the same reason Blade can daywalk, his mother was attacked during labor. However ... like a lot of off source material ... it feels like it's just hanging out there. Why is this pregnant Firefly running alone from a single infected toward the house from the Michael Jackson Thriller Video? But the flashbacks for a lot of these characters felt like great additions to the story that are just too difficult to make work in a game environment, so I'm glad there here, even if in cost us some other content. I just wish it didn't cost us all the infected sections.

I will ... one final time ... complain about the lack of infected. One of the nice things about the open was it did include a much needed infected sequence. The fact that it was a single infected, still early in the infection stage, has me convinced that a lot of the lack of infection really is a symptom of budget. One last chance that was made up out of whole cloth, and you go for one single lightly infected runner? They did the same thing in the mall, limiting an intense multi infected chase sequence with a single infected. And in the game, this is one of the most intense infected areas. The tunnell leading into the city is littered with all the various infected. It's one of the hardest sections in the game, and one that can be approached in a variety of ways, including stealthing your way across the whole section.

The giraffe scene I thought hit perfectly. And the Joel rescue scene I thought looked awesome, and I know there were some complaints about it feeling a little out of place with the rest of the show, which had a much more grounded feel. But I'm not sure there was another way to handle it. It is based on a video game after all. There has to be some action set pieces. They've removed almost all of them that involved the infected, but I'm not sure how else they could've gotten around this. There were a couple of breadcrumbs laid for season two for the game players. Super subtle, but they were there. And they would actually help to explain the set up of season two, and I'm guessing one of the two will be referenced to start that season.

The end hit very much how I expected. Super happy Joel, both at the end and in the QZ remains, felt a little weirder to me than I recall in the games. But the giant question mark about what Ellie knows, what she wants to believe, and everything else, hit perfectly to me.

Next season will be interesting for a number of reasons. A lot of game players didn't like it, and I'm assuming there will be a similar reaction. But it's got some other challenges to it's development. More character perspectives for one, which this show did almost exclusively one episode at a time, then promptly killing off said character, like David, or Sam and Henry. But the thing that I thought hurt game 2 and will be a problem development wise, is that while this story spans roughly a year to cross the country, game 2 eventually spans some time, but the bulk of it takes place over something closer to a week. Also, while it may seem hard to believe, the second game is darker in tone. Season 1s success I'm sure will ramp up the budget, so hopefully that gets us more infected.

Looking forward to season two. And probably more forward to the idea that a third game seems like a real possibility now as a way to expand this story.