I have to admit it. I might have flopped on a couple of those. You have to.

[video=youtube_share;FJ3FXLyNFew]https://youtu.be/FJ3FXLyNFew?si=FSyqNB9jrvHLDzYR[/video]


He’s getting terrorized and taking that shit like a man. People today would just fall over to make sure the ref has to call something. I think I’ve been tainted by too much soft basketball. I forgot that people would just put up with that kind of treatment. We all clowned Vlade, but in retrospect, you almost have to fall when somebody’s treating you like that. Shaq comes through on some “Move bitch. Get out the way!” shit.

Real “Get the **** back. Guard your grill. I’m on the move I can’t stay still!” action


[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/kypCGSk/IMG-7706.gif[/IMG]






I might have to take back a little of my previous venom aimed at Vlade.


[video=youtube_share;Ym-rhH8oPWE]https://youtu.be/Ym-rhH8oPWE?si=V7oiK7UNntXpQU4-[/video]





I almost have to respect the effort. How many times can you let him go through your chest like the ****ing alien baby.


[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/5RpLGRw/IMG-7790.gif[/IMG]





On the other hand it kinda shows you what it actually takes to knock these guys down. They flop all over the place but they can stand up to quite a bit if they wanna be men about it. But there is no in game upside to being a man. Being a bitch is too much of an advantage.

Be honest. You letting Shaq mug you like that and staying on your feet if falling would give you the call?

Flopblaze

[QUOTE=RRR3;14886524]Flopblaze[/QUOTE]

What’s the messing with me is at the time it never occurred to me why people would often not try to sell Shaq contract. All kidding aside. Of course it was just pride. I can’t imagine falling on purpose because somebody bumps me in the post. Not when I was actually playing. But now? I feel like they probably tell them to do it and the risk vs reward might justify it.

if the team is watching film the next day and sees Shaq decimate you three or four times like that is the coaching staff gonna give you props for taking it like a man or ask you why you didn’t try to sell it if it results in a free two points anyway?

From a numbers perspective, is there a greater risk giving up the dunk by falling and leaving the rim unprotected? He’s gonna dunk it nearly every time there they don’t call a foul. What are you giving up percentage wise, trying to get the foul? He scores 99.5 percent of the time instead of 90?

Is it possible that analytics are…if only in spirit…behind the flop movement?

Math defeating manhood at the direction of coaches?

When do you think people start falling to sell charges on drives? I’m sure it wasn’t instinctual. At some point a flip was switched and it was decided that the fundamental practice was to put weight on your heels and fall when he runs into you.

I guess there weren’t enough dislodging specialists after they eased up on offensive fouls to justify the practice. Shaq was the only one doing it at the rate you needed to address it. Guys would move you but rarely so violently.

If there were 16 Shaqs the league might have started flopping in the post in unison like the whole world did on drawing charges traditionally.

People flop because it helps their team win and they want to win. It’s really that simple. I can’t remember any flopping from guys who aren’t super competitive tbh. Smart, Beverley, LeBron (although he doesn’t flop that much since Miami he still does sometimes), Dillon Brooks, Jokic (he’s not that bad but he’s started to do it cuz he doesn’t get calls), Curry, Embiid, CP3, Luka all flop and are all guys who want to win at all costs. People say Harden isn’t competitive but imo he is. If refs stop rewarding flopping a lot of it would stop. Then again a lot of these guys are great actors so it’s hard to tell.

Intrigued by your manhood vs. math debate, if you were the manager, what would you do here

[video=youtube;xi7IPZAcP78]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi7IPZAcP78&ab_channel=MLB[/video]

Would you walk him knowing it's statistically the smart play, or would you have too much pride and pitch to him

He was a prideful defender and really believes he could have defended Shaq one on one. I looked up the numbers a few years ago and I think Shaq never scored 30+points against Mutombo up to that point where Deke was past his prime.

I think I’d Have to pitch to him. But I say that knowing it’s intellectually the wrong call. The idea of flopping bothers me. It bothers all of us. But if our favorite team started taking out of control drives in the chest and standing tall like we all know they could? Would we be in favor of it as their manhood put the team at a disadvantage?

Stand or fall the offensive foul is supposed to get called. But when you take it in the chest and don’t fall, you’re less likely to get the call. We have all just accepted it as the reasonable time to flop. It’s just considered good defense.

Is that the only situation in sports where we applaud such things?

We have even kind of twisted it to the point where people who take charges are considered tough because they stand in there and get hit before they flop. You can get hit and not flop. Same blow you have to take. You just don’t do the routine collapse and slide as you stare at the ref. It wouldn’t be LESS tough to take it in the chest and stay on your feet.

But we would consider it stupid.

Feels like that’s the only pass we allow in sports.

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14886534]He was a prideful defender and really believes he could have defended Shaq one on one. I looked up the numbers a few years ago and I think Shaq never scored 30+points against Mutombo up to that point where Deke was past his prime.[/QUOTE]
He won Dpoy that year lol

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14886534]He was a prideful defender and really believes he could have defended Shaq one on one. I looked up the numbers a few years ago and I think Shaq never scored 30+points against Mutombo up to that point where Deke was past his prime.[/QUOTE]

sure it’s a pride thing. Most bigs back then and earlier wouldn’t just fall. They wouldn’t want to give you the satisfaction. I do feel like Karl Malone with occasionally flop, though. I have no evidence of it but it’s in my memory somewhere. Not so sure he’d do it against Shaq though. And he would guard him at times. But I feel like I have Malone flopping in my memory.

[QUOTE=RRR3;14886537]He won Dpoy that year lol[/QUOTE]

He was also 35 years old

35 on the paperwork. Would anyone here bett $100 he wasn’t truly older than that? I remember he was offended years ago that people kept doing that, but it’s not like it doesn’t happen all the time. Manute Bol didn’t even have records at all. The guy who discovered him just assigned him an age that would let him go to college.

I think Mutombo’s problem with it was that he was from a more urban area and had records. And he had school records and all because he was coming to America to be a doctor. Maybe he actually was 35 but if you told me he was 39 I wouldn’t argue.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14886540]35 on the paperwork. Would anyone here bett $100 he wasn’t truly older than that? I remember he was offended years ago that people kept doing that, but it’s not like it doesn’t happen all the time. Manute Bol didn’t even have records at all. The guy who discovered him just assigned him an age that would let him go to college.

I think Mutombo’s problem with it was that he was from a more urban area and had records. And he had school records and all because he was coming to America to be a doctor. Maybe he actually was 35 but if you told me he was 39 I wouldn’t argue.[/QUOTE]

He was still a great backup until the end so if he was actually older it would make Mutumbo that much more impressive

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14886540]35 on the paperwork. Would anyone here bett $100 he wasn’t truly older than that? I remember he was offended years ago that people kept doing that, but it’s not like it doesn’t happen all the time. Manute Bol didn’t even have records at all. The guy who discovered him just assigned him an age that would let him go to college.

I think Mutombo’s problem with it was that he was from a more urban area and had records. And he had school records and all because he was coming to America to be a doctor. Maybe he actually was 35 but if you told me he was 39 I wouldn’t argue.[/QUOTE]
Years ago you told another poster it was silly to say he was older because they had records and now you’re taking the opposite stance? :biggums:

You may be thinking of Ibaka. I distinctly remember us talking about if Mutombo was actually 50 on here when he was on the Rockets.

can't quit me

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?510887-Dikembe-Mutombo-vs-Rudy-Gobert/page4[/url]


Post 59

I guess I misremembered but you did say he had an official background

Yea that’s pretty much the same thing I just said


[QUOTE]
Dikembe it’s only fair to say has a more official background. His dad was a teacher and he was gonna be a doctor before deciding on basketball which is why he was a 25 year old rookie…

But a 25 year old rookie who then played 18 years on top of it?

He should be the all time games leader if he came in at a normal age.

If he had a deathbed confession that he was 28 as a rookie I wouldn’t dismiss it. I’m sure he’s deeply offended by the idea but it is what it is.

[/QUOTE]


he has paperwork because he was coming to America through the proper channels to go to school. Which is one reason he gets pissed off when people talk like he was from the jungle with no records. But that doesn’t mean the papers were accurate. It’s purely stereotypical but…it didn’t come from nowhere.

The list of players who were still star level at 39 is LeBron, Kareem and Karl Malone. I’d say it’s more likely he was 35.

The question is…how many 39-year-olds would be given the opportunity to prove they could still be good if the world believed they were much younger?

The guy who discovered Manute, and personally created an age out of thin air, believes he was 40ish when he first got to the league. Say he was even 35.

Hes not being drafted to begin with.

[video=youtube_share;zStYhN-KOWk]https://youtu.be/zStYhN-KOWk?si=-xoX1x_jASTrE6su[/video]

if Jamal were the age he looks there would he be given more of a chance to go prove what he could become? He still looked early 20s. I feel like if Spurs Dominique Wilkins were an unknown 20-year-old he might have had a better chance to be a star as the same player. Some of it is just the expectation that old people can’t play anymore.

We see them for what they lost instead of what they are. Without the player, they used to be to compare them to a lot more old guys might be considered good players. But of course, that goes both ways and sometimes we are slow to let go of somebody’s previous stardom.

Jamal was legitimately awful at that point, he just had a hot game. It happens. Seriously, you can't find many guys who played well at 39, even in limited minutes.

You strike me as the type who would think he was awful his entire career. And that’s kinda the point. Whatever he was….at 39 it had no leash. At 22…you see what he might become. It isn’t purely on merit.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14886559]You strike me as the type who would think he was awful his entire career. And that’s kinda the point. Whatever he was….at 39 it had no leash. At 22…you see what he might become. It isn’t purely on merit.[/QUOTE]
He was solid some years. Tended to be bad in the playoffs though. But he was pretty washed by then.

Age isn't a big deal at 35 if your job is to guard Shaq. Most of what you've lost by that age is irrelevant in this case. Maybe you're a little more sore the next day. That's about it.