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Sometimes I look at meat on my plate and feel a little disgusted compared to the fresh healthy looking vegetables. Thinking of trying to go vegetarian or pescatarian and if it works out, eventually vegan.
If any of you have made the switch how much more a month do you think you pay in grocery bills? Also did you feel more anxiety? That's my biggest worry, I've heard going vegetarian or vegan can potentially cause more anxiety and depression
[QUOTE=RachlNicholsazz;14892176]Sometimes I look at meat on my plate and feel a little disgusted compared to the fresh healthy looking vegetables. Thinking of trying to go vegetarian or pescatarian and if it works out, eventually vegan.
If any of you have made the switch how much more a month do you think you pay in grocery bills? Also did you feel more anxiety? That's my biggest worry, I've heard going vegetarian or vegan can potentially cause more anxiety and depression[/QUOTE]
Dude don’t overthink it. Just start with going one full day vegan. Then observe your body’s reaction. Then go another day and so on.
Eventually you’ll understand your cravings and needs.
As for money and mental stability just like with anything you’ll see positive improvements in certain areas and negative in others.
Nothing is perfect.
I will say this, if you go health food vegan with 80% of your diet raw foods and not junk food vegan, you’ll lose of ton of weight like a mofo.
Vegan is too hard. Too many things I’m not willing to give up. I’ve had spurts where I’ve tried vegetarian but even then, I love chicken too much. And deli meat.
I have significantly cut back on red meat though. Maybe only eat once a month at most and feel great. Went to Austin a few months ago and got brisket because…obviously. I felt lethargic and had stomach issues for 2 days.
Like the above guy said, just try what you feel and see what happens. There’s no perfect solution.
many people talk the talk , but wife is 100%.
I commend her until she would get brutally sick .. then I would feel sorry or her.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14892198]Vegan is too hard. Too many things I’m not willing to give up. I’ve had spurts where I’ve tried vegetarian but even then, I love chicken too much. And deli meat.
I have significantly cut back on red meat though. Maybe only eat once a month at most and feel great. Went to Austin a few months ago and got brisket because…obviously. I felt lethargic and had stomach issues for 2 days.
Like the above guy said, just try what you feel and see what happens. There’s no perfect solution.[/QUOTE]
Everyone is different. I think vegetarian is better for you than vegan. But if you have some fish and chicken too…that’s never bad for you as well.
I would go low carb and intermittent fast, and do longer fasts periodically to activate autophagy.
Beef is one of the most nutrient dense foods on the planet, if not the most nutrient dense. Alternate between Beef/salmon(wild caught), chicken, and lamb.
Don't be gay and not eat meat. That's a slap in the face to your ancestors and your biology.
All studies show that vegans have a much longer life expectancy than meat eaters. Average is around 8 years longer. This is because meat is heavily linked to heart disease.
I am not vegan myself, like mentioned earlier in this thread, it is very difficult. But I try hard to limit red meat and I try harder to completely avoid fast food all together. Steak and cheeseburgers are great, but too much is a heart attack. They should not be eaten regularly. They should be seen as treats, or "every now and then".
If I were attempting to go vegan, I would not just go cold turkey. I would start by removing pork first for a month and see how that goes. If that goes well then remove beef. And if that goes well chicken and turkey, followed by fish and seafood. Sort of long term weening into it. It allows your body and mind to adjust better.
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;14892344]All studies show that vegans have a much longer life expectancy than meat eaters. Average is around 8 years longer. This is because meat is heavily linked to heart disease.
I am not vegan myself, like mentioned earlier in this thread, it is very difficult. But I try hard to limit red meat and I try harder to completely avoid fast food all together. Steak and cheeseburgers are great, but too much is a heart attack. They should not be eaten regularly. They should be seen as treats, or "every now and then".
If I were attempting to go vegan, I would not just go cold turkey. I would start by removing pork first for a month and see how that goes. If that goes well then remove beef. And if that goes well chicken and turkey, followed by fish and seafood. Sort of long term weening into it. It allows your body and mind to adjust better.[/QUOTE]
What are your sources?
Also, studies that link diseases with meat don't differentiate between processed meats and unprocessed, high quality meat. Nor do they account for overall food consumption. In other words, people that eat a lot of meat also eat a ton of other unhealthy bullshit which leads to inflammation and disease. All the studies I've seen are completely bogus.
High quality, grass fed beef is not unhealthy. When the beef is grass fed the omega 3 ratio is much more optimal and less likely to cause inflammation. There isn't a study where people eat only high quality meat, though, but anecdotally there are tons of people who have cured autoimmune diseases by eating only beef all day, and their blood work is perfect.
Carnivore or Keto diet is >>> vegan bullshit especially their fake meat which is so artificial the human body did not ever evolve to consume it.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14892363]What are your sources?
Also, studies that link diseases with meat don't differentiate between processed meats and unprocessed, high quality meat. Nor do they account for overall food consumption. In other words, people that eat a lot of meat also eat a ton of other unhealthy bullshit which leads to inflammation and disease. All the studies I've seen are completely bogus.
High quality, grass fed beef is not unhealthy. When the beef is grass fed the omega 3 ratio is much more optimal and less likely to cause inflammation. There isn't a study where people eat only high quality meat, though, but anecdotally there are tons of people who have cured autoimmune diseases by eating only beef all day, and their blood work is perfect.[/QUOTE]
This.
People never factor in quality of the meat in these studies. Eating slim Jim's and hotdogs and fast food burgers isn't equivalent to eating fresh chicken or beef home-cooked.
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;14892344]All studies show that vegans have a much longer life expectancy than meat eaters. Average is around 8 years longer. This is because meat is heavily linked to heart disease.
I am not vegan myself, like mentioned earlier in this thread, it is very difficult. But I try hard to limit red meat and I try harder to completely avoid fast food all together. Steak and cheeseburgers are great, but too much is a heart attack. They should not be eaten regularly. They should be seen as treats, or "every now and then".
If I were attempting to go vegan, I would not just go cold turkey. I would start by removing pork first for a month and see how that goes. If that goes well then remove beef. And if that goes well chicken and turkey, followed by fish and seafood. Sort of long term weening into it. It allows your body and mind to adjust better.[/QUOTE]
Well those stats are probably skewed because more of the people who eat meat….eat everything including tons of junk food and don’t care about their health at all. Most Vegans are going to be on average, more health conscious in other areas compared to the average meat eating person. Which makes the numbers somewhat meaningless.
And like I said before, everyone is different. A short woman that has a decent amount of body fat and needs less protein will be better suited for a vegan diet than a tall and athletic man.
If you are only eating healthy organic meats then kudos to you. Again, I eat meat and I try to do the same. I think you have to be honest with yourself about how clean your diet is though. Are you really free of processed meat? How often do you eat bacon? Full of nitrates and sodium. I don't know of any studies that single out "clean meat eaters" because I imagine that would be extremely difficult. My feeling is that most people who go out of their way to eat organic meats probably also mix in some unhealthy stuff along the way too.
I know there are health nuts out there who will only eat unprocessed chicken breast and clean low fat meats, and I am sure their life expectancy is just fine. But those are outliers. And they still don't eat red meat on the regular.
I bet just ridding yourself of beef and pork takes care of most the life expectancy gap.
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;14892378]
I bet just ridding yourself of beef and pork takes care of most the life expectancy gap.[/QUOTE]
Tell that to the people of Hong Kong, who have the highest life expectancy on Earth, and eat more meat per capital than any country, including huge amounts of beef and pork.
The reality is that there are a ton of factors when in comes to longevity and health. Saying not eating beef or pork would take care of an imaginary life expectancy gap is a preposterous statement.
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14892363]What are your sources?
[B]Also, studies that link diseases with meat don't differentiate between processed meats and unprocessed, high quality meat. Nor do they account for overall food consumption. In other words, people that eat a lot of meat also eat a ton of other unhealthy bullshit which leads to inflammation and disease.[/B] All the studies I've seen are completely bogus.
High quality, grass fed beef is not unhealthy. When the beef is grass fed the omega 3 ratio is much more optimal and less likely to cause inflammation. There isn't a study where people eat only high quality meat, though, but anecdotally there are tons of people who have cured autoimmune diseases by eating only beef all day, and their blood work is perfect.[/QUOTE]
Exactly what I was going to point out. Meat eaters tend to have very different dietary profiles across the board than vegetarians. Reducing any life expectancy discrepancy down to meat without controlling for it in the studies is not good science.
That said, every person has a slightly different optimal diet for their own body, just like everyone has different finger prints. This is how, in primal conditions, species diverge. Some primitive early mammal exists and some individuals prefer vegetation, they gradually evolve into hippos and gazelle and whatever, others prefer meat and evolve toward bears and cats and so on, eventually consuming exclusively their certain diet. Humans on the whole are omnivorous of course, but many individual persons will feel and be healthier leaning toward one direction or the other.
You really have to listen to your own body and observe what kind of diet makes you feel your best week in and week out. If you feel good not just when you eat it, but afterward as well, then it's almost certainly healthy for you regardless of what 'studies say.'
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14892387]Tell that to the people of Hong Kong, who have the highest life expectancy on Earth, and eat more meat per capital than any country, including huge amounts of beef and pork.
The reality is that there are a ton of factors when in comes to longevity and health. Saying not eating beef or pork would take care of an imaginary life expectancy gap is a preposterous statement.[/QUOTE]
The Blue Zones have the highest life expectancy on Earth
[IMG]https://d2jx2rerrg6sh3.cloudfront.net/images/Article_Images/ImageForArticle_23866_16951972139978353.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.verywellhealth.com/blue-zone-diet-foods-4159314[/url]
[I]The diet is mostly plant-based. The daily food intake of people living in Blue Zones is about 95% vegetables, fruits, grains, and legumes. They do not eat much meat, dairy, sugary foods or drinks, and processed food.[/I]
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14892401]Exactly what I was going to point out. Meat eaters tend to have very different dietary profiles across the board than vegetarians. Reducing any life expectancy discrepancy down to meat without controlling for it in the studies is not good science.
That said, every person has a slightly different optimal diet for their own body, just like everyone has different finger prints. This is how, in primal conditions, species diverge. Some primitive early mammal exists and some individuals prefer vegetation, they gradually evolve into hippos and gazelle and whatever, others prefer meat and evolve toward bears and cats and so on, eventually consuming exclusively their certain diet. Humans on the whole are omnivorous of course, but many individual persons will feel and be healthier leaning toward one direction or the other.
You really have to listen to your own body and observe what kind of diet makes you feel your best week in and week out. If you feel good not just when you eat it, but afterward as well, then it's almost certainly healthy for you regardless of what 'studies say.'[/QUOTE]
Yea this is true. I know keto is healthy but I'd always feel weak and unsatisfied with no potatoes or rice with the meal. My genetics might code for those things. Going all carb and fake food vegan would be disastrous though.
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;14892413]The Blue Zones have the highest life expectancy on Earth
[IMG]https://d2jx2rerrg6sh3.cloudfront.net/images/Article_Images/ImageForArticle_23866_16951972139978353.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.verywellhealth.com/blue-zone-diet-foods-4159314[/url]
[I]The diet is mostly plant-based. The daily food intake of people living in Blue Zones is about 95% vegetables, fruits, grains, and legumes. They do not eat much meat, dairy, sugary foods or drinks, and processed food.[/I][/QUOTE]
That 95% figure is definitely bullshit. Mediterrean cuisine has plenty of meat involved. But it's high quality and bathed in fresh olive oil.
There's also more to life expectancy than food. Some of those cultures a re rich with social contact and communication and live in great climates year round. It doesn't all boil down to just food.
Hong Kong probably has a high life expectancy for the same reasons that California and New York do in the US. The cost of living is extremely high which means the population is mostly well off, high earners. And those are the type of people with great healthcare and doctors. As opposed to Alabama, Mississippi, etc who have low earners, no healthcare.
[QUOTE=tpols;14892416]That 95% figure is definitely bullshit. Mediterrean cuisine has plenty of meat involved. But it's high quality and bathed in fresh olive oil.
There's also more to life expectancy than food. Some of those cultures a re rich with social contact and communication and live in great climates year round. It doesn't all boil down to just food.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://www.bluezones.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/303664_BlueZonesDailyDiet_03_Ikaria_061819.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;14892413]The Blue Zones have the highest life expectancy on Earth
[IMG]https://d2jx2rerrg6sh3.cloudfront.net/images/Article_Images/ImageForArticle_23866_16951972139978353.jpg[/IMG]
[url]https://www.verywellhealth.com/blue-zone-diet-foods-4159314[/url]
[I]The diet is mostly plant-based. The daily food intake of people living in Blue Zones is about 95% vegetables, fruits, grains, and legumes. They do not eat much meat, dairy, sugary foods or drinks, and processed food.[/I][/QUOTE]
Yawn.
[url]https://www.thrivenutritionmn.com/blog/2022/2/2/are-the-blue-zones-plant-based[/url]
Longevity is much more complicated than "avoid pork and beef!"
You were duped by dubious studies and manipulated by pro-vegan advocates trying to make a buck.
The pork and beef statement was my own hunch. But yes it is mostly due to the irrefutable link between red meat and heart disease.
Listen, I eat red meat, like I have said multiple times in here. I don't have a "side" in this. You can believe what you want. But if you think it's all "dubious studies" or a hoax by pro-vegan advocates, I think you are telling yourself lies so that you can eat what you like. Also saying and doing are two different things. We can both say what we believe to be healthy in here while eating a Big Mac and Soda.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14892401]Exactly what I was going to point out. Meat eaters tend to have very different dietary profiles across the board than vegetarians. Reducing any life expectancy discrepancy down to meat without controlling for it in the studies is not good science.
That said, every person has a slightly different optimal diet for their own body, just like everyone has different finger prints. This is how, in primal conditions, species diverge. Some primitive early mammal exists and some individuals prefer vegetation, they gradually evolve into hippos and gazelle and whatever, others prefer meat and evolve toward bears and cats and so on, eventually consuming exclusively their certain diet. Humans on the whole are omnivorous of course, but many individual persons will feel and be healthier leaning toward one direction or the other.
You really have to listen to your own body and observe what kind of diet makes you feel your best week in and week out. If you feel good not just when you eat it, but afterward as well, then it's almost certainly healthy for you regardless of what 'studies say.'[/QUOTE]
I do largely agree with you here, but also just something to note. When someone drastically changes their diet for whatever reason, maybe from a high carb diet to low carb, there will be a period of time where you don't feel good. Maybe even for weeks at a time, as your body adjusts to using a different fuel source for energy and an altered microbiome.
If you take a random fat slob who lives off fast food and processed junk, and he immediately shifts to eating whole foods and much lower carbs, that guy is gonna feel like shit for quite a while.
Personally I felt weaker and low energy for a couple months when I cut out carbs initially. Felt weak in the gym libido was lower etc. It wasn't until about 2.5 months in until I started to feel better than I ever had, day in and day out, without cravings and general feelings of being unsatisfied.
Most people in my situation just quit before giving it a real shot and go back to their old diets, thinking it must be healthier because they felt better on it.
But yes, some people will ultimately do better with more meat, more veggies, whatever it is, based on their own unique makeup. But generally most people will be healthier if they limit carbs and incorporate fasting protocols. Insulin resistance is a real killer and leads to all sorts of ailments.
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;14892419][IMG]https://www.bluezones.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/303664_BlueZonesDailyDiet_03_Ikaria_061819.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yea and this guy lived til 112 years old smoking 10 cigars a day, drinking coffee and whiskey, and eating fish, corn, and Campbell's processed soup.
[video=youtube_share;BXyfCGDnuWs]https://youtu.be/BXyfCGDnuWs?si=RBE2M7tGTKQqJ4IC[/video]
[QUOTE=tpols;14892427]Yea and this guy lived til 112 years old smoking 10 cigars a day, drinking coffee and whiskey, and eating fish, corn, and Campbell's processed soup.
[video=youtube_share;BXyfCGDnuWs]https://youtu.be/BXyfCGDnuWs?si=RBE2M7tGTKQqJ4IC[/video][/QUOTE]
This is one man. That isn't telling of anything. Also coffee is linked to longevity. Maybe that is what did it for him lol.
[QUOTE=Bill Gates;14892425]The pork and beef statement was my own hunch. But yes it is mostly due to the irrefutable link between red meat and heart disease.
Listen, I eat red meat, like I have said multiple times in here. I don't have a "side" in this. You can believe what you want. But if you think it's all "dubious studies" or a hoax by pro-vegan advocates, I think you are telling yourself lies so that you can eat what you like. Also saying and doing are two different things. We can both say what we believe to be healthy in here while eating a Big Mac and Soda.[/QUOTE]
I'm just giving you alternative view points. You need to check sources and question whether you need to actually make drastic changes.
I dont overdo it on red meat either, but I also don't think eating red meat regularly is linked to heart disease based on everything I've read. It's one of those tropes that have been around so long that people just blindly take it as fact. I think the other contributing factors and dietary choices are much more to blame for heart disease and cancer than red meat. Processed foods, refined carbs, sodas, vegetable oils which all lead to insulin resistance, and systemic inflammation. Not to mention a sedentary life
If you're worried about meat like it's the boogeyman I don't think you truly have a grasp on the subject
[QUOTE=AlternativeAcc.;14892426]I do largely agree with you here, but also just something to note. When someone drastically changes their diet for whatever reason, maybe from a high carb diet to low carb, there will be a period of time where you don't feel good. Maybe even for weeks at a time, as your body adjusts to using a different fuel source for energy and an altered microbiome.
If you take a random fat slob who lives off fast food and processed junk, and he immediately shifts to eating whole foods and much lower carbs, that guy is gonna feel like shit for quite a while.
Personally I felt weaker and low energy for a couple months when I cut out carbs initially. Felt weak in the gym libido was lower etc. It wasn't until about 2.5 months in until I started to feel better than I ever had, day in and day out, without cravings and general feelings of being unsatisfied.
Most people in my situation just quit before giving it a real shot and go back to their old diets, thinking it must be healthier because they felt better on it.
But yes, some people will ultimately do better with more meat, more veggies, whatever it is, based on their own unique makeup. But generally most people will be healthier if they limit carbs and incorporate fasting protocols. Insulin resistance is a real killer and leads to all sorts of ailments.[/QUOTE]
Definitely true, I just meant that if youre eating for instance a lot big macs and candy bars and not much fiber, you probably wont be feeling ‘great’ to begin with. So you can probably feel you need a change. People get hooked on that stuff for the taste, not because it really makes them feel healthy. But I agree that changing your diet radically is similar in many ways to drug withdrawal. You may well feel worse for a while (I did, and Im still working thru it) if you switch cold turkey, but you probably didnt feel super healthy in the first place as an addict.
But in terms of very specific levels of meat, and sugar and so forth, I think it varies by person exactly how much is gonna have anyone feeling their best. Its def not a one size fits all.
I’ve said it a million times on this site that if you eat animal products it should be raw.
Raw unadulterated animal fat and protein are probably the most healing things one could consume. Once you cook or god forbid over cook meat and animal fat it becomes toxic.
I’ve said it on here for 10 plus years, and no one ever tries it for themselves. Lol. Good thing there are tons of other online personalities on different platforms that have come along endorsing a raw animal diet. It’s catching on.
People who eat a high fat, high protein diet need to be more active than people who who eat more of a plant based diet pure and simple. High fat and high protein diets mixed with a sedentary lifestyle is a horrible combo. At the same time our gut and brain are designed to eat both. Particularly those of northern Asian and European descent. It's a high meat diet that built our big brains and it is essential that northern Asians and Europeans incorporate some meat into our diets for good brain activity and mental health because that's what mother nature designed it around. We can't just turn on a dime with mother nature, she requires time for our bodies to adapt to change. But if you are not active, then being vegetarian is probably the best of 2 bad options.
[QUOTE=Back In Shape;14892897]People who eat a high fat, high protein diet need to be more active than people who who eat more of a plant based diet pure and simple. High fat and high protein diets mixed with a sedentary lifestyle is a horrible combo. At the same time our gut and brain are designed to eat both. Particularly those of northern Asian and European descent. It's a high meat diet that built our big brains and it is essential that northern Asians and Europeans incorporate some meat into our diets for good brain activity and mental health because that's what mother nature designed it around. We can't just turn on a dime with mother nature, she requires time for our bodies to adapt to change. But if you are not active, then being vegetarian is probably the best of 2 bad options.[/QUOTE]
Yea agreed. You gotta do what your ancestry dictates. I've seen rastfarians looking super healthy eating mostly fruit and coconuts and stuff. For a white person who grew up in areas where there were no tropical fruits it's not ideal. We need high quality sources of meat.
Why don’t you guys actually discuss the topic? Veganism.
Op don’t listen to these internet podcast listening douche bags and actually experiment for yourself.
All these comments are not from personal experience at all. Lmao.
I’d bet no one in the comments has ever went 6 months vegan or ever tried raw meat.
Straight *******.
Eat whatever you want. It doesn't matter Global Warming, excuse me Climate Change alarmists, as they now prefer to be called, already said the point of no return was 2016 if we didn't reduce CO2 emissions. Well last year the world put out 10 billion (+25%) more metric tons of CO2 than we did in 2000 so I'm assuming we are already living on borrowed time
[IMG]https://media1.tenor.com/m/V4s3cA07r9wAAAAd/luka-doncic-laugh.gif[/IMG]
You know what vegetarian dish taste good? Teriyaki tofu.