Would you take prime Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan over prime Jokic today?

Or even back in the 90s/00s?

They all have inherent strengths and weaknesses. They're not on different tiers. I hope no one thinks that. I don't think you're implying that.

Hard to tell what they'd be in today's league. I'd say Hakeem has the strongest case out of the 3.

They all represent unknown quantities playing in eras outside their own. Yes Im sure all these guys COULD play in each other’s era, but we dont know how they would stack up against the very best under different circumstances. So theres just no point.

Whatever era the hypothetical game takes place in, you take the best guy from that era (or Lebron to cover your bases in all eras).

Hakeem...HELL YES!!!

Hakeem ran through a gauntlet of all time great centers to win his titles, back when the game was played from the inside out. Jokic, and I respect the hell out of him, He could play in any era.. simply doesn't have that competition at his position.

I actually think Hakeem would thrive in today's league. The guy didn't start playing basketball until he was 15 years old, he was a soccer player/goalie (reason for the blocks/rebounds/feet) and could run and handle like a guard. Hakeem would thrive in today's league. He not only had the greatest footwork of any center, but he also had one of the greatest footwork and moves regardless of position. Watching him against Jokic would've definitely been a treat ��

[QUOTE=TMac&Luther;14895073]Hakeem...HELL YES!!!

Hakeem ran through a gauntlet of all time great centers to win his titles, back when the game was played from the inside out. Jokic, and I respect the hell out of him, He could play in any era.. simply doesn't have that competition at his position.

I actually think Hakeem would thrive in today's league. The guy didn't start playing basketball until he was 15 years old, he was a soccer player/goalie (reason for the blocks/rebounds/feet) and could run and handle like a guard. Hakeem would thrive in today's league. He not only had the greatest footwork of any center, but he also had one of the greatest footwork and moves regardless of position. Watching him against Jokic would've definitely been a treat ��[/QUOTE]

Career loser bar the years MJ was swinging at curveballs and the 3 point-line was shortened.

For 6 straight years from the ages of 24-30, he failed to win a playoff series, often losing to teams led by Dale Ellis, or Derek Harper.

Hakeem wasn't transcendent like Jokic or Duncan (neither was Shaq).

[QUOTE=Nowitness;14895078]Career loser bar the years MJ was swinging at curveballs and the 3 point-line was shortened.

For 6 straight years from the ages of 24-30, he failed to win a playoff series, often losing to teams led by Dale Ellis, or Derek Harper.

Hakeem wasn't transcendent like Jokic or Duncan (neither was Shaq).[/QUOTE]

Obviously posted by a guy who never saw him play and is just pulling up stats.. the team was derailed by injuries and cocaine addictions during that time.. As far as Jordan goes stat guy.. please pull up Hakeem's win total verses Jordan's 90's bulls. Something people always forget, the bulls had no answer for him. Bill Cartwright ect.. paleassse :oldlol:

The Bulls are lucky we didn't come out of the Western Conference (would've changed Jordan's entire legacy).. They can thank the Super Sonics for that.. styles make fights. We didn't match up against them.. the same way the "badass Jordan bulls" didn't match up against us. We definitely matched up against them, but Jordan decided to take a Dave Chappelle hiatus and play shitty baseball.

Take your Jordan retirement B.S. and shove it.. would've loved to see Hakeem slay him (like so many others) during that run too :D

[video=youtube_share;ZkBaNJVGfcE]https://youtu.be/ZkBaNJVGfcE?si=8Hoa-bppbax4h5no[/video]

"Hakeem Olajuwon wasn't transcendent"... Wake me the **** up when all time great guards/forwards like Kobe and LeBron ask a 50+ year old Jokic to teach them his post moves/footwork..

You are completely ignorant regarding the question asked.

You know what is probably one of Hakeem's greatest accomplishments... He was drafted in front of Michael Jordan.. and NO ONE QUESTIONS IT.

Hakeem yes now or then. The others would be asked to adjust their games a bit more today and were less mobile on D so it’s harder to say what they would be. For the times they played I’d keep all 3 over Jokic. What’s he gonna do that they didn’t? Win it extra hard?

Generally you go with whoever proved it in the setting in question. Hakeem I just have more faith in today as a defensive menace who also can’t be guarded.

If I already have the best player in the league, why would I swap him out for an unknown?

Yes I would take Hakeem, Shaq, and Duncan over prime Jokic.

[video=youtube_share;qhELyZ4na3Q]https://youtu.be/qhELyZ4na3Q?si=VAQG-aZ8q4mnmLEX[/video]

Yep, Dream would've wiped his ass with today's centers..

[QUOTE=TMac&Luther;14895073]Hakeem...HELL YES!!!

Hakeem ran through a gauntlet of all time great centers to win his titles, back when the game was played from the inside out. Jokic, and I respect the hell out of him, He could play in any era.. simply doesn't have that competition at his position.

I actually think Hakeem would thrive in today's league. The guy didn't start playing basketball until he was 15 years old, he was a soccer player/goalie (reason for the blocks/rebounds/feet) and could run and handle like a guard. Hakeem would thrive in today's league. He not only had the greatest footwork of any center, but he also had one of the greatest footwork and moves regardless of position. Watching him against Jokic would've definitely been a treat ��[/QUOTE]

how many titles does Hakeem have ???

I would take Shaq and Duncan over one title Joker.
Duncan would be hard to pass at 4 titles and his high IQ of bball.
Joker gets 3 chips ,, we can have another discussion.

** If Giannis gets another chip and possibly another MVP , we can have a discussion of Giannis and his mentor Keem ..

What the **** are you dudes even thinking when you make threads like this?

Take to what? What is the situation?

[QUOTE=SATAN;14895129]What the **** are you dudes even thinking when you make threads like this?

Take to what? What is the situation?[/QUOTE]

To the prom perhaps?

[QUOTE=iamgine;14895131]To the prom perhaps?[/QUOTE]

What is the situation? Take to what? A team? What team? 1 vs 1? A game of chess?

The level of thoughtless bullshit that floods sports discussion is ridiculous. And I don't even dislike the alt your using, but **** you!

This new LeBron and JJ podcast is already better than The Last Dance propaganda series btw

Nobody, Jokic is literally the perfect big ever created.

He can score 30ppg on efficiency not known to exist at 30ppg in playoff runs. His style of play promotes ultimate team basketball. He's amongst the top 5 passers I've ever seen in my life and clearly the best passing big ever my a mile. He's a solid defender. Stretches the floor.

The other bigs here do certain things better than Jokic, Duncan and Hakeems defense being the major one. Hakeems post ups look prettier but I doubt they're actually more effective than Jokic.

[QUOTE=TMac&Luther;14895083]Obviously posted by a guy who never saw him play and is just pulling up stats.. the team was derailed by injuries [B]and cocaine addictions during that time.[/B]. As far as Jordan goes stat guy.. please pull up Hakeem's win total verses Jordan's 90's bulls. Something people always forget, the bulls had no answer for him. Bill Cartwright ect.. paleassse :oldlol:

The Bulls are lucky we didn't come out of the Western Conference (would've changed Jordan's entire legacy).. They can thank the Super Sonics for that.. styles make fights. We didn't match up against them.. the same way the "badass Jordan bulls" didn't match up against us. We definitely matched up against them, but Jordan decided to take a Dave Chappelle hiatus and play shitty baseball.

Take your Jordan retirement B.S. and shove it.. would've loved to see Hakeem slay him (like so many others) during that run too :D[/QUOTE]


And this is exactly why... we done with yall from the 80s and 90s. It was crackhead league with weak shooters and all right hand dribblers. So many dudes back then had no handle with the left hand... that's why they was always posting.

[QUOTE=TMac&Luther;14895093]You know what is probably one of Hakeem's greatest accomplishments... He was drafted in front of Michael Jordan.. and NO ONE QUESTIONS IT.[/QUOTE]

So was Sam Bowie.

And Jokic was a 2nd round pick and is dominating the league.

I'm taking all of them over Jokic in the 90s. It's a tougher question for today. On the current team I'm sticking with Jokic. It's built too well for him. On a brand new team and if I'm only looking at their primes then I'd take Shaq then Hakeem then Jokic then Duncan. Over a career? Not sure but Hakeem last.

If I have to start a team from scratch tomorrow I take Jokic. Orlando Shaq would probably be a better player in today's league than prime Shaq. If I already have a good PG, I take Hakeem or Shaq first. Duncan is the one whose game least translates to current playing style. If I have a full roster and have a last spot on it I probably take Jokic. So basically: if I have nothing or almost everything I pick Jokic. If I have certain pieces and need the center post to be played than Hakeem or Orlando Shaq. Prime Shaq and Duncan as good as they were are not really good fits today.

Then again: I may be totally wrong. It's a very tough question.

Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan easy and probably David Robinson too. You guys underestimate the would be impact these Goat level bigmen would have on a league that is not built to defend them.

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14895271]Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan easy and probably David Robinson too. You guys underestimate the would be impact these Goat level bigmen would have on a league that is not built to defend them.[/QUOTE]
Can you build a contender with Rony Seikaly as your 2nd guy? If so what would be his stats?

[QUOTE=TMac&Luther;14895093]You know what is probably one of Hakeem's greatest accomplishments... He was drafted in front of Michael Jordan.. and NO ONE QUESTIONS IT.[/QUOTE]

Who would question that. He was clear cut number one.

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14895271]Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan easy and probably David Robinson too. You guys underestimate the would be impact these Goat level bigmen would have on a league that is not built to defend them.[/QUOTE]

I slightly disagree. Shaq is a real physical mismatch in any era. But he would need to run a lot more and his defense wouldn't be that effective (id we are talking about Lakers Shaq as 'prime'). Hakeem and Duncan would be great defenders, especially Hakeem. The more mobile and laterally quick the better. On offense though: I think Lakers Shaq can't run at this speed for an 82 game season. That's why I said I'd replace him with Orlando Shaq. Duncan could do the same thing he did 20 years ago. Which is great but not at Joker's level on offense. Do you really have to defend Duncan or even Hakeem though? Let them have their 25-30 points. As long as they are not playmakers on a high level it's probably less effective for the team.

Embiid is not a worse scorer than Hakeem. He is better in scoring alone than Duncan and you can argue him being close to Orlando Shaq. And injuries aside, Embiid didn't take the 76ers very far in the past. Many players can score now.

Jokic is unique because he runs the offense. You don't need a true PG as long as he is playing. That's a big difference maker.

As good as Jokic is as a playmaker the style of play and era makes him look better than he actually is.

Another thing nobody talks about is the improved numbers across the board those guys would have especially the assist numbers considering the amount of shooters they would have playing with them.

Shaq could easily go for 35ppg 13rebs 6asts 3blks in his prime today why would Jokic's playmaking make him better?

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14895282]As good as Jokic is as a playmaker the style of play and era makes him look better than he actually is.

Another thing nobody talks about is the improved numbers across the board those guys would have especially the assist numbers considering the amount of shooters they would have playing with them.

Shaq could easily go for 35ppg 13rebs 6asts 3blks in his prime today why would Jokic's playmaking make him better?[/QUOTE]

great point... could joker take the punishment Pat Ewing , keem, and Tim would of taken

[QUOTE=SATAN;14895137]This new LeBron and JJ podcast is already better than The Last Dance propaganda series btw[/QUOTE]

Lay off the crackpipe and Lechina's dick. Worst player of all time

[QUOTE=Reggie43;14895282]As good as Jokic is as a playmaker the style of play and era makes him look better than he actually is.

Another thing nobody talks about is the improved numbers across the board those guys would have especially the assist numbers considering the amount of shooters they would have playing with them.

Shaq could easily go for 35ppg 13rebs 6asts 3blks in his prime today why would Jokic's playmaking make him better?[/QUOTE]

You think Shaq fits Denver better than Jokic? I think not. That team is so well tuned for Jokic.

Jokic's pure scoring ability is good but not on the level of the guys mentioned. However, his ability to make quick, smart reads and passes allows him to avoid the biggest poison to modern big man post play: The ability for a zone defense to get you to pick up the dribble without leaving their man completely open. No other big in NBA history can punish help like this. His ability to shoot also provides space for teammates to make their own plays without him clogging up the lane. And ironically since other bigs can't do this, they've been replaced by more versatile 4's which makes it even easier for Jokic to attack in single coverage.

What makes Jokic great today doesn't work as well 30 years ago because of the way defenses worked. The ability to make a quick move to score in the post was more valuable.

Shaq in today's league would ideally be leaking out and pinning someone under the basket and getting an easy dunk every time he wants. So his performance depends a lot on his conditioning. Whereas a lazy 2002+ Shaq in today's league is going to be less effective on offense than Embiid currently is. And he's going to be much worse on defense than he was in his era. How he's officiated will also heavily swing his value and that's up to if Adam Silver likes what he sees or not(Shaq was never officiated fairly even in his career - either he had too much freedom or too little). Shaq is a complete wildcard that is hard to predict.

Like I said earlier I'd take Shaq and Hakeem over Jokic on a brand new team today. And I'd pray to God Shaq takes conditioning seriously and make sure to be friendly with Adam Silver and the refs.


[QUOTE=Reggie43;14895282]As good as Jokic is as a playmaker the style of play and era makes him look better than he actually is.[/QUOTE]
This is a strange statement. Everyone is a product of the rules of the game. Allowing only 6 fouls per player instead of 40 made Shaq look better than he actually is. Hack-a-Shaq every possession would put the team's offensive output below the 2024 Pistons.

Shaq was routinely destroying double teams in his prime with quick moves in the post, he could beat his man down the court for an easy dunk but he doesnt need to rely on that to score. Probably half of Shaqs moves was purely off natural quickness/agility where he beats his man even before the double team comes or actually shooting over double teams with his jump hook after creating separation or even dunking his way through lol

[QUOTE=fsvr54;14895308]Lay off the crackpipe and Lechina's dick. Worst player of all time[/QUOTE]

^^Shortest ish poster of all time.

I'm taking Jokic

Of course. But Jokic is nice. Not my cup of tea in terms of his game but he’s obviously awesome

Yeah I would. All of those bigs play defense. Hakeem and Duncan are the best defensive anchors in the history of the game.

Joke is great though he could end up being the best but honestly I doubt that.

In this era you could argue Jokic would be the best of that group, but going back to the 90's/early 00's, I'm taking Hakeem & Shaq over him.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14895637]In this era you could argue Jokic would be the best of that group, but going back to the 90's/early 00's, I'm taking Hakeem & Shaq over him.[/QUOTE]

Jokics passing ability would be greatly hindered with 90s shooting teammates for sure. But Shaq and Hakeem weren't elite passers even as it applies to today's game. Hakeem was known as a black hole player who would get tunnel vision for scoring when he caught the entry pass. Jokic mind and team offense IQ is on another level.

Hakeem is arguably the greatest defender of all time. Does anyone think Jokic's passing is enough to counter Hakeem's overwhelming advantage at the other end of the floor?