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I suppose it's not an [I]outrageous[/I] take. Because as you always say, the margins between these top guys are so thin that it often comes down to team construction, coaching, various personalities within the organization, etc.
I personally would rather have Steph because I think he came with less drama.
As the league is currently constructed I wouldn't consider someone crazy for choosing Luka though.
Both great players but Lukas style in place of curry doesn't fit with Golden State back then. Dray and Iggy spotting up while he pounds the rock isn't a winning formula imo.
There's a very thin line separating the best of the best. There are situations Luka would be better in and also situations Curry would be better in.
The only conclusion I can take out of this after watching the tape is that they are both apart of the evolution of Supreme basketball skill and we are done with the older eras of right hand spam dribbling and sagging defenses.
Not a hot take at all. I personally like Curry because his game's just so portable, you can put him in any offense and we will make it exponentially better. But Luka in his limited playoff showing has shown that he's a gamer and is able to impose his will physically.
what place are the Mavs in ???
Wars all most never saw anything but first place
/
Curry was the only unanimous MVP in league history, in a league with prime KD/Lebron and healthy Kawhi, so yeah that is a pretty lame take.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14896663]Curry was the only unanimous MVP in league history, in a league with prime KD/Lebron and healthy Kawhi, so yeah that is a pretty lame take.[/QUOTE]
Yea but he crumpled in the playoffs in a way we haven't seen from Luka yet.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14896663][B]Curry was the only unanimous MVP in league history[/B], in a league with prime KD/Lebron and healthy Kawhi, so yeah that is a pretty lame take.[/QUOTE]
So your opinion is based on the media's opinion...?
And yes, of course it is reasonable for a given person to prefer any one of the top players over another one.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896673]So your opinion is based on the media's opinion...?
And yes, of course it is reasonable for a given person to prefer any one of the top players over another one.[/QUOTE]
That and the fact that Curry had the best advanced stats in the league across the board. Curry also led the league in ppg, TS and steals.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14896663]Curry was the only unanimous MVP in league history, in a league with prime KD/Lebron and healthy Kawhi, so yeah that is a pretty lame take.[/QUOTE]
You imagine that if you polled the people who voted him mvp they would say he was the best player in the league at the time? I don’t know that they would. It isn’t really the same question is it?
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14896676]You imagine that if you polled the people who voted him mvp they would say he was the best player in the league at the time? I don’t know that they would. It isn’t really the same question is it?[/QUOTE]
You could argue that "best player" would need to prove it for more than 1 season......oh wait Steph won the MVP the year before too. Never mind.
[QUOTE=tontoz;14896678]You could argue that "best player" would need to prove it for more than 1 season......oh wait Steph won the MVP the year before too. Never mind.[/QUOTE]
And The people who gave it to him that year routinely said the best player in the league was LeBron then as well. There is a clear distinction Made by the people giving out the award. Would you disagree? Even if you don’t think there should be a distinction, it clearly exists. It’s entirely possible the MVP is about to go to someone else not generally believed to be the best player in the league.
It’s not that uncommon.
[QUOTE=Kblaze8855;14896680]And The people who gave it to him that year routinely said the best player in the league was LeBron then as well. There is a clear distinction Made by the people giving out the award. Would you disagree? Even if you don’t think there should be a distinction, it clearly exists. It’s entirely possible the MVP is about to go to someone else not generally believed to be the best player in the league.
It’s not that uncommon.[/QUOTE]
Everyone has their own criteria for the MVP. There never was a clear directive from the league what the parameters were. In theory a voter can just vote for the best player on his favorite team.
But when one player gets all the first place votes that gives a pretty clear indication that they feel he is the best player, not to mention the overwhelming statistical advantage Steph had over everyone else.
I don't buy the notion that there were a lot of people who voted for Steph in 2016 who didn't think he was the best player.
Imo if there was a poll given in 2016 asking who the best player was, at least during the regular season, I do think Steph would get the vast majority of the votes. He was so phenomenal individually, while leading his team to a record most people assumed would never be broken. He even had the championship hardware for those insistent on rings being a requirement.
After the Finals though, it'd be hard to say LeBron didn't emphatically take that mantle back.
I suppose it comes down to the time you generally mean when you ask those questions. When I ask who the best player was in 2011 Does the general answer from that time of LeBron come to your head first or do you think about Dirk? It kind of varies by season doesn’t it? Hakeem was the best player in 1995. An unbelievable amount of people during the season in 1995 would’ve said David Robinson. He also won MVP. Hakeem was 5th. 4th among centers even. But Hakeem feels like the answer.
how often would you say the answer people might give you in March supersedes the answer that immediately comes to your head when you ask yourself the question?
For the record I don’t care if anyone thinks Curry was better in 2016 than Luka is now. I assumed that would be the general answer which is why I was compelled to ask when I saw so many people saying they agreed Luka was better.
The actual answer doesn’t bug me either way. As usual I’m more interested in the process and the weeds around the question.
Now I’m thinking….
What do we generally mean when we say somebody was the best player in a season?
The changes so much by year. Like I think Kobe would probably win that poll during the 2006 season. But an awful lot of people call it wades year. I still think he’d lose to Kobe in a poll now but I’m not sure he loses it in June 06. Seems we take the season as a whole that year.
But 2011? 97? Anyone repping Embiid as the best last year? Doesn’t seem like it. But he was unproven. Duncan was unproven going into the 99 playoffs but left a made man. 99 Duncan’s year? Or the unproven at the time Shaq or MVP Malone who got embarrassed?
It kinda just…takes on a life of its own. Nothing across the board seems to govern it like the mvp award itself.
Yeah it's pretty outrageous because if the guy that posted that actually watched the games he would know how far beyond boxscores Curry's game went.
There is no way through traditional basic stats to track how good Curry was at his peak.
[QUOTE=Wardell Curry;14896696]Yeah it's pretty outrageous because if the guy that posted that actually watched the games he would know how far beyond boxscores Curry's game went.
There is no way through traditional basic stats to track how good Curry was at his peak.[/QUOTE]
Yeah
Big time low iq thread
2016 curry blew a 3-1 lead in the finals with a 73-win team, when he couldn't get past over the mighty defense of delly bt. :ohwell:
Nah we aren't going to start forgetting how good prime Curry was. Very outrageous take.
I think we all kinda know that Luka is black listed from the MVP's partly due to his age also his geography. It's going to be weird next season with Jokic definately not getting a 4th MVP
[QUOTE=SATAN;14896727]Nah we aren't going to start forgetting how good prime Curry was. Very outrageous take.[/QUOTE]
In the regular season, sure. He could have probably had a bunch more single game records if he and the other starters werent sitting out the whole 4th so often. And yes Curry was a big part of that and deserves credit for it.
But there's also a reason the reputation exists that in big games, it was often Curry's teammates grinding back from a deficit or building a lead while Steph disappeared, and then once the Warriors were back in the driver's seat Curry would hit a shot or two and start prancing around. Sometimes getting so excited by frontrunning he'd throw a stupidly casual behind the back pass out of bounds in a big moment.
So let's not forget BOTH sides of the Curry coin.
If someone wants to take the game's current leading scorer and a pure playoff killer like Doncic over a sus, prancing, skipping, disappearing, pouting, returning, shimmying, 1/5 FMVP Curry, I dont think that's "very outrageous."
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896738]In the regular season, sure. He could have probably had a bunch more single game records if he and the other starters werent sitting out the whole 4th so often. And yes Curry was a big part of that and deserves credit for it.
But there's also a reason the reputation exists that in big games, it was often Curry's teammates grinding back from a deficit or building a lead while Steph disappeared, and then once the Warriors were back in the driver's seat Curry would hit a shot or two and start prancing around. Sometimes getting so excited by frontrunning he'd throw a stupidly casual behind the back pass out of bounds in a big moment.
So let's not forget BOTH sides of the Curry coin.
If someone wants to take the game's current leading scorer and a pure playoff killer like Doncic over a sus, prancing, skipping, disappearing, pouting, returning, shimmying, 1/5 FMVP Curry, I dont think that's "outrageous."[/QUOTE]
this is low iq false narrative nonsense that can’t be backed up by any sort of facts
nice try though
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14896739]this is low iq false narrative nonsense that can’t be backed up by any sort of facts
nice try though[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896740][IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Snellen_chart.svg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
show any sort of stats that back up anything you are saying
but you can’t since this was just some weird rant that came out of your head
It is a ridiculous take. No different than when Harder was "the best scorer ever" during his big ppg season. Charles said that on live TV.
Ultimately that proved to be absolutely untrue and just in the moment type shit.
Currys brand of basketball is far superior to Luka. That will be proven once again in the playoffs - where it matters.
Steph allows organic team play. Actually, he doesn't allow it he inspires it. Enhances it.
Luka ball, Harden ball, that shit ball gets exposed when it's winning time. And very hard to build a super team around because one ball.
[URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13c23es/in_his_playoff_career_stephen_curry_has_shot_010/"]In his [B]playoff career[/B], Stephen Curry has shot 0-10 on go ahead shots in the last 45 seconds. (through 2022)[/URL]
Lebron is 9-18 under the same criteria btw.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14896743]It is a ridiculous take. No different than when Harder was "the best scorer ever" during his big ppg season. Charles said that on live TV.
Ultimately that proved to be absolutely untrue and just in the moment type shit.
Currys brand of basketball is far superior to Luka. That will be proven once again in the playoffs - where it matters.
Steph allows organic team play. Actually, he doesn't allow it he inspires it. Enhances it.
Luka ball, Harden ball, that shit ball gets exposed when it's winning time. And very hard to build a super team around because one ball.[/QUOTE]
Fultz has always made countless posts about how “hero ball” is such a detrimental style of play
Guess his eye test lacks some consistency
[QUOTE=Carbine;14896743]
Currys brand of basketball is far superior to Luka. That will be proven once again in the playoffs - where it matters.
[/QUOTE]
Steve Nash's "brand of basketball" is far superior to MJ's.
Is he the better player?
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896744][URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13c23es/in_his_playoff_career_stephen_curry_has_shot_010/"]In his [B]playoff career[/B], Stephen Curry has shot 0-10 on go ahead shots in the last 45 seconds.[/URL][/QUOTE]
there’s 48 mins of game
last 45 seconds is literally a fraction of the game
if you want to boil all play down to a minute fraction and extrapolate that….
wow
hope you aren’t a big fan of something called “sample size”
you got caught with your pants down right now, you can either concede, keep being intellectually dishonest, or try to play this whole thing off like you were “just joking”
keep it consistent though
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14896745]Fultz has always made countless posts about how “hero ball” is such a detrimental style of play
Guess his eye test lacks some consistency[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying anyone SHOULD take Luka.
I'm saying dont be revisionist about "prime Curry." He was not without flaws.
He was an important, AND flawed piece of a stacked team.
Luka is also an important, AND flawed piece of a far less talented team.
Those are the facts.
There is no need to get into our feels about it.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896744][URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/13c23es/in_his_playoff_career_stephen_curry_has_shot_010/"]In his [B]playoff career[/B], Stephen Curry has shot 0-10 on go ahead shots in the last 45 seconds. (through 2022)[/URL]
Lebron is 9-18 under the same criteria btw.[/QUOTE]
:lebronamazed:
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896747]Steve Nash's "brand of basketball" is far superior to MJ's.
Is he the better player?[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with that. Nash needed a certain system around him to be his best self. He wasn't a ball hog for shots but he was a heavy dribble time player. When he went to the Lakers and didn't have the ball like he typically had it, he fell off.
Jordan was a quick strike off ball player during his 6 titles for the most part in the half court.
[QUOTE=Carbine;14896751]I don't agree with that. Nash needed a certain system around him to be his best self. He wasn't a ball hog for shots but he was a heavy dribble time player. When he went to the Lakers and didn't have the ball like he typically had it, he fell off.
Jordan was a quick strike off ball player during his 6 titles for the most part in the half court.[/QUOTE]
Lol.
Oh, really? When Nash was 37 years old and had to play next to Chuckbe, he fell off?
What an indictment.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896749]I'm not saying anyone SHOULD take Luka.
I'm saying dont be revisionist about "prime Curry." He was not without flaws.
He was an important, AND flawed piece of a stacked team.
Luka is also an important, AND flawed piece of a far less talented team.
Those are the facts.
There is no need to get into our feels about it.[/QUOTE]
show me the facts, you showed me a lame (even you can admit) false argument
show me the stats
like i said i somewhat consider your eye test compromised since you used to harp on hero ball so much but now after luka you have turned a 180 with no explanation
[QUOTE=Carbine;14896751]I don't agree with that. [B]Nash needed a certain system around him to be his best self. [/B]He wasn't a ball hog for shots but he was a heavy dribble time player. When he went to the Lakers and didn't have the ball like he typically had it, he fell off.
Jordan was a quick strike off ball player during his 6 titles for the most part in the half court.[/QUOTE]
Also, with Nash it's a system thing, but with Curry [quote] he allows organic team play. Actually, he doesn't allow it he inspires it. Enhances it." [/quote]
Interesting.
[QUOTE=warriorfan;14896753][B]show me the facts,[/B] you showed me a lame (even you can admit) false argument
show me the stats
like i said i somewhat consider your eye test compromised since you used to harp on hero ball so much but now after luka you have turned a 180 with no explanation[/QUOTE]
Quantifying this would require combing every game log possession-by-possession, which I'm clearly not going to do.
If the game threads still exist you could probably find NUMEROUS people observing and mentioning it in real time.
It's a reputation he has, and has had, and it exists for a reason. It didnt get made up out of nowhere. I'm not someone who makes these things up. I'm telling it how it is. If you want to say the reputation is overblown, go ahead. But it exists and there is SOME basis for it.
If that upsets you... I dont know what else to say.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896756]Quantifying this would require combing every game log possession-by-possession, which I'm clearly not going to do.
If the game threads still exist you could probably find NUMEROUS people observing and mentioning it in real time.
It's a reputation he has, and has had, and it exists for a reason. It didnt get made up out of nowhere. I'm not someone who makes these things up. I'm telling it how it is. If you want to say the reputation is overblown, go ahead. But it exists and there is SOME basis for it.
If that upsets you... I dont know what else to say.[/QUOTE]
Ok so let me get this straight
Your argument right now is “There are facts for my unsubstantiated and subjective take, but I can’t be bothered to gather them at the moment”
Ok great. Thanks for playing. This is some bladefd level of posting, lol.
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896756][B]Quantifying this would require combing every game log possession-by-possession, which I'm clearly not going to do.
If the game threads still exist you could probably find NUMEROUS people observing and mentioning it in real time.
It's a reputation he has, and has had, and it exists for a reason. It didnt get made up out of nowhere. I'm not someone who makes these things up. I'm telling it how it is. If you want to say the reputation is overblown, go ahead. But it exists and there is SOME basis for it. [/B]
If that upsets you... I dont know what else to say.[/QUOTE]
Read this bolded portion as if it came from a pro-kobe poster from back on the day in a kobe vs lebron discussion. Sounds exactly the same.
This is the type of stuff i’ve seen fultz and kobe fan haters go in hard on. “You weren’t there man. There was this one time…” Fultz and kobe fan haters always make fun of that shit.
“The stats don’t show!” -kobe fan
Then they would always mock the pro kobe guys and say “show me the stats” and spam cherry picked fg% and say kobe is trash.
I just once again think it’s hilarious because fultz has mocked kobe fans for this mindset for years, now he wants to use the same logic to fuel his irrational hate for curry
keep it consistent lil bro
I posted his empirically abysmal go-ahead shooting percentage in the playoff clutch. That's a fact. You rejected its relevance.
I'm articulating specific issues with his play that have been widely known and observed. Youre insisting I just made this up right now.
If I had a scroll filled with airtight Pythagorean proofs of the veracity of what I'm saying, signed at the bottom by God himself, you would refuse to accept it.
So whatever. :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=FultzNationRISE;14896764]I posted his empirically abysmal go-ahead shooting percentage in the playoff clutch. That's a fact. You rejected its relevance.
I'm articulating specific issues with his play that have been widely known and observed. Youre insisting I just made this up right now.
If I had a scroll filled with airtight Pythagorean proofs of the veracity of what I'm saying, signed at the bottom by God himself, you would refuse to accept it.
So whatever. :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
you should revisit kobe’s career
your basketball views have shifted so much over the years
seems like you would be a huge mamba fan now